| Lemon Drop Husker |
06-03-2018 04:10 AM |
I think we all should be in a wait and see mode.
We've beat our head against the post for decades and have accepted the results.
Change always scares people. Not a fan, but many an expert has been woefully wrong about Trump and our economy.
|
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 10:02 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324328)
NAFTA is dead
|
NAFTA is an existing agreement that we are a party to. If it there are problems, change it or formally dissolve it.
Trump's tariffs are in violation of NAFTA. We aspire to a position of world leadership, but don't honor our commitments. And how can Trump expect to have any credibility in the eyes of other countries in future negotiations he is promising to "win" after reneging on existing agreements? |
| mrhorseplayer |
06-03-2018 10:44 AM |
America first .
|
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 10:51 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2324739)
NAFTA is an existing agreement that we are a party to. If it there are problems, change it or formally dissolve it.
Trump's tariffs are in violation of NAFTA. We aspire to a position of world leadership, but don't honor our commitments. And how can Trump expect to have any credibility in the eyes of other countries in future negotiations he is promising to "win" after reneging on existing agreements?
|
Everything is a process and formally dissolving it is under way. We have no need to buy products from any country that are automated. The automation can and will be done here, sure automation means less workers but those less numbered workers should be Americans. As in Canada they have raw wood that they can sell to us and China, but it costs more to ship to China and therefore it means we should know what the Chinese pay and not pay more. Canada can't sell finished wood products into China because they levy duty's making it impossible. The leverage is all ours if you understand how China operates, and wood products are just the example of a much larger set of products. When we own automation we can make more things here and free up our ports clogged with shipping containers and the amount of people needed to verify, scan, and check for smuggled contraband that is potentially dangerous. Obliviously I am not a globalist, and the process of making more things here means actually starting that process, your seeing history in the making disassembling what made China its presences today. This is just the start, and the size of our economy can fuel all Americans dreams and aspirations instead of the worlds dreams and aspirations. |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 11:00 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324663)
Again you have zero points...
Nice dodge again.
What problems?
|
We did not vote for little Marco, because we did not want to elect your slag.
We wanted this, this is not a dodge.
We want Donald J. Trump to rock the world.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/may-...democrats.html
|
| johnhannibalsmith |
06-03-2018 11:20 AM |
Agreed.
|
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 11:39 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
(Post 2324676)
Change always scares people. Not a fan, but many an expert has been woefully wrong about Trump and our economy.
|
No.
Cutting taxes and repealing regulations are not unique to Trump. Those are mainstay GOP pillars. Those were fine...
This is that dumb stuff that accomplishes nothing but votes. |
| Lemon Drop Husker |
06-03-2018 11:42 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324774)
No.
Cutting taxes and repealing regulations are not unique to Trump. Those are mainstay GOP pillars. Those were fine...
This is that dumb stuff that accomplishes nothing but votes.
|
What votes?
Who is voting for tariffs?
We've been a bitch to China and many others. I say we let this play out a bit. |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 11:44 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324760)
|
Again... zero points... more deflection.
Trumps accomplishments to date are the same as "little Marcos" campaign goals.
Cut taxes and deregulate.
Nobody has a problem with that... we have a problem with this dumb shit thay none of you can actually argue because... quote frankly... the average Trump voter either doesn't understand economics and/or doesn't care.
You're both. |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 11:45 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
(Post 2324776)
What votes?
Who is voting for tariffs?
We've been a bitch to China and many others. I say we let this play out a bit.
|
I say you'll see a slowing economy, rising consumer prices, and ultimately more jobs lost in "protected sectors"... pick the metric and the wager. |
| Lemon Drop Husker |
06-03-2018 11:46 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324778)
I say you'll see a slowing economy... what's the wager?
|
$100 the tariffs are gone before the year ends . |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 11:48 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
(Post 2324779)
$100 the tariffs are gone before the year ends .
|
Of course they will be. They're stupid.
This is for votes |
| Lemon Drop Husker |
06-03-2018 11:50 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324781)
Of course they will be. They're stupid.
This is for votes
|
How is this for votes?
Nobody wants tariffs. Not even Bernie Sanders. |
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 12:02 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324757)
Everything is a process and formally dissolving it is under way.
|
You are dodging the issue. The US is a signatory to an agreement. By imposing tariffs on Canada and Mexico, we are violating that agreement. What does that tell the world about our country and our credibility?
Do you want and respect a president that doesn't honor our commitments? |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 12:02 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
(Post 2324783)
How is this for votes?
Nobody wants tariffs. Not even Bernie Sanders.
|
Read the posts on this forum about the subject.
People are against free trade. They're convinced they're getting screwed. They aren't sure by who or how but they are convinced of it. Some blame the elite, China, the EU is a fun a humorous new target on here. Some think trade deficits are inherently bad when it's been shown they aren't and only tell half the story. Others think that slapping tariffs creates more jobs here overnight when it doesn't. People blame off shoring when that isn't the case either.
People are just mad and they don't know why but here comes Trump blaming everyone else and by god he's gonna so something about it! ;)
Nevermind the fact the United States the economy is fine... let's have the government get involved.
Nevermind the fact 7 or 8 of the largest car manufacturing plants in this country are actually European and Japanese makers.
Nevermind the fact it's the UNITED STATES that has a 25% import tax on all light trucks and vans.
People get real quiet when it comes to that...
Why are we waging a trade war with Mexico, Canada, and the EU over steel when China is supposed to be the problem?
It's for votes... it's too incoherent not to be. So far Trump has been a deal-breaker in Chief certainly not a dealmaker. |
| Lemon Drop Husker |
06-03-2018 12:10 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324787)
Read the posts on this forum about the subject.
People are against free trade. They're convinced they're getting screwed. They aren't sure by who or how but they are convinced of it. Some blame the elite, China, the EU is a fun a humorous new target on here. Some think trade deficits are inherently bad when it's been shown they aren't and only tell half the story. Others think that slapping tariffs creates more jobs here overnight when it doesn't. People blame off shoring when that isn't the case either.
People are just mad and they don't know why but here comes Trump blaming everyone else and by god he's gonna so something about it! ;)
Nevermind the fact the United States the economy is fine... let's have the government get involved.
Nevermind the fact 7 or 8 of the largest car manufacturing plants in this country are actually European and Japanese makers.
Nevermind the fact it's the UNITED STATES that has a 25% import tax on all light trucks and vans.
People get real quiet when it comes to that...
Why are we waging a trade war with Mexico, Canada, and the EU over steel when China is supposed to be the problem?
It's for votes... it's too incoherent not to be. So far Trump has been a deal-breaker in Chief certainly not a dealmaker.
|
Fantastic diatribe.
Still confused as to how this equals votes? When, where, and how is this "Votes"? |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 12:17 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
(Post 2324788)
Fantastic diatribe.
Still confused as to how this equals votes? When, where, and how is this "Votes"?
|
The #MAGA crowd loves this. The #winning.
They love the "trade wars are easy to win" tweets.
He's just tapping into the populist/nationalist base. Even admitted the steel tariffs were to appease his voters.
It has to be for votes because if it wasn't why wouldn't he just work with our allies and trade partners to iron out issues. They've shown willingness. You have to frequent news sources that most of his voters don't but they've all been more than willing.
Want to get tougher on Iran? Offered.
Want to work on some TPP protocols? Offered.
Want to address overcapacity in the steel industry? Offered.
Want to rework NAFTA? Offered then rescinded because of the Pence ultimatum... Gotta read elsewhere again.
It may be a diatribe but it's backed by facts... |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 12:18 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2324786)
You are dodging the issue. The US is a signatory to an agreement. By imposing tariffs on Canada and Mexico, we are violating that agreement. What does that tell the world about our country and our credibility?
Do you want and respect a president that doesn't honor our commitments?
|
It means the signatory is only good while that President is in office, it is not binding to following Presidents. There is NO confusion to what President Trump said about NAFTA before he was elected or after his election, the message was the same and the promise to scrap or amend is NOW. The tactic used is roll with the United States or kiss NAFTA goodbye. When it is opportune for the President it will be a formal televised event, until then it is a time for those in NAFTA to give in order to get. |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 12:23 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
(Post 2324788)
Fantastic diatribe.
Still confused as to how this equals votes? When, where, and how is this "Votes"?
|
And right on time fast hops on in the above post to show my populist point....
The word and good faith of the United States means nothing now. Everyone is a target. Everyone is screwing us.
It has to be for votes because nothing else about it makes sense. |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 12:31 PM |
When you hang your jockstraps outside on the clothesline expect someone to put something on them, the ones laughing at you jump around screaming are likely the ones responsible for your distress. In other words, expect more uncomfortable times because it was intended for you.
|
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 12:32 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324790)
It means the signatory is only good while that President is in office, it is not binding to following Presidents.
|
If there ever was any chance of intelligent conversation in this thread, that blows it out of the water.
What planet are you from, really? |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 12:35 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2324796)
If there ever was any chance of intelligent conversation in this thread, that blows it out of the water.
What planet are you from, really?
|
The one that FU is a universally understood, globalist have much to fear. |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 01:38 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2324796)
If there ever was any chance of intelligent conversation in this thread, that blows it out of the water.
What planet are you from, really?
|
You think farmers were upset with TPP?
Just wait until NAFTA falls apart.
It's an election year right? ;)
Perfect time for a tit-for-tat trade war if you're a western democracy. The Chinese don't care and will fight whenever as their people do as told but the more the merrier right? ;) |
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 01:57 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324835)
Just wait until NAFTA falls apart.
|
Our "local expert" says NAFTA isn't in force any more. Clinton signed it, and it was no longer a binding agreement on the country or on future presidents once he left office. :rolleyes:
Some one needs to inform the rest of the world about this. The leaders of Canada and Mexico in particular are laboring under the impression that we still have an agreement, and are upset because they think that Trump is violating it.
I wonder if that means we are still at war with Germany and Japan, effective when Truman left office? |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 02:24 PM |
You said in a different thread the President can not impose tariffs, to that I said he will. I guess you knew more right?
The part that you did not copy me on was what President Trump said before the election is the same after he was elected. A very convenient omission.
What President in recent history has kept that many promises after elected?
He cares not what you think of him, but only cares that it is another promise he can check off in the long list of them that he made. This is exactly why it is so powerful when he does not care what you think. In the end when China blinks and effects change in NK, and you have criticism then for lightning up on them after we get our intended objective in NK who is going to pay attention to you guys?
|
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 02:39 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2324835)
You think farmers were upset with TPP?
Just wait until NAFTA falls apart.
It's an election year right? ;)
Perfect time for a tit-for-tat trade war if you're a western democracy. The Chinese don't care and will fight whenever as their people do as told but the more the merrier right? ;)
|
I think farmers should raise their prices in anticipation for very bad crops that will be felt in places other than These United States, the uproar of price increase during unforeseen calamity we do not need. I say soccitothem now.
NAFTA is garbage that the advantage is with them and not us. As for the European union, Germany can not take any more pressure. Just think of all the fun Italy presents for them. |
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 02:54 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324862)
You said in a different thread the President can not impose tariffs
|
I never said he couldn't, I said he shouldn't. It is terrible policy that hurts American businesses and consumers.
Every president has limited power to impose tariffs. His claim that tariffs on imported automobiles is justified by national security concerns is nonsense.
Quote:
What President in recent history has kept that many promises after elected?
|
Trump has been unable or unwilling to keep most of his major promises, especially the ones that got his base excited. Like repeal and replace ObamaCare, deport 12 million illegals, build a wall and have Mexico pay for it, etc.
Trump is preferable to Hillary, but he isn't the greatest president ever as his fan boys make him out to be. |
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 02:58 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324879)
I think farmers should raise their prices in anticipation for very bad crops that will be felt in places other than These United States, the uproar of price increase during unforeseen calamity we do not need. I say soccitothem now.
|
Farmers have zero power to set prices. Farm prices are a function of supply and demand in the market, and farmers are forced to take that price. |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 03:00 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324879)
I think farmers should raise their prices in anticipation for very bad crops that will be felt in places other than These United States, the uproar of price increase during unforeseen calamity we do not need. I say soccitothem now.
NAFTA is garbage that the advantage is with them and not us. As for the European union, Germany can not take any more pressure. Just think of all the fun Italy presents for them.
|
Google the USDA and farm subsidies.
Every time you talk you demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge on all things economic.
Farmers already have surpluses which is why farm subsidies exist.
By your logic farmers should raise prices on produce they already have a hard time selling all of?
<--- Owns farm land. |
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 03:01 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2324897)
Farmers have zero power to set prices. Farm prices are a function of supply and demand in the market, and farmers are forced to take that price.
|
Never fails to demonstrate he has no clue what he is talking about.
:pound::pound::pound: |
| johnhannibalsmith |
06-03-2018 03:12 PM |
You guys are talking about all things before Trump. Your kind understands not that big things can change with a real leader and not the kind you prefer!
|
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 03:16 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2324897)
Farmers have zero power to set prices. Farm prices are a function of supply and demand in the market, and farmers are forced to take that price.
|
That can change, soon the world faces a very bleak shortage of food. The Bilderburg Group that meets in Italy next week are sure to side with you two. It is a sure bet they are not happy that their puppet did not win. It is going to get a much worse for them not being able to control a American President and watching their positions shrink. |
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 05:10 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2324912)
The Bilderburg Group that meets in Italy next week are sure to side with you two. It is a sure bet they are not happy that their puppet did not win. It is going to get a much worse for them not being able to control a American President and watching their positions shrink.
|
Oh no, the sky is falling and there are monsters under the bed. :eek:
Don't tell anyone, but a number of representatives of the Trump administration attended the meetings last year, including that flaming globalist, Wilbur Ross. |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 05:59 PM |
You guys are right, we got to tariff produce.
|
| elysiantraveller |
06-03-2018 06:15 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2325008)
You guys are right, we got to tariff produce.
|
:pound::pound::pound:
Just stop dude... it's okay...
We are a major net exporter of foodstuffs... but you're right let's tariff bananas since we grow so many here! Teach those Costa Ricans a lesson!
"#MAGA instead of Mango!"
- Trump 2020 Campaign slogan.
Stop while you're not ahead. |
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 06:31 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
(Post 2325016)
We are a major net exporter of foodstuffs... but you're right let's tariff bananas since we grow so many here! Teach those Costa Ricans a lesson!
|
Most of our exports are grains and beans.
Quote:
...the proportion of the imported fresh fruit eaten in the United States rose to 53.1 percent in 2016, from 23 percent in 1975, according to the Agriculture Department’s Economic Research Service. Fresh vegetable imports rose to 31.1 percent from 5.8 percent. (Still, the United States remains a net agricultural exporter, with grains, soybeans, meat and nuts accounting for most of the trade surplus.)
For consumers, the chief advantages of the import boom are the increased availability and variety of fresh produce, particularly in winter, when imported berries, grapes and stone fruit now compete with citrus and stored apples.
|
And if you want to talk about really serious issues, 93% of Hass avocados sold in the U.S. come from Mexico. Holy guacamole!!! Tariffs on those and tequila would be just cause for rebellion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/d...s-imports.html |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 06:40 PM |
Mexico will pay for a wall, hardball is the name of the game.
You guys find it so shocking that follow threw occurs.
|
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 06:46 PM |
Last week just like last year around the same time homeland and ICE had checkpoints just south of Canada on 93S. Hmmm why did they not have checkpoints on 93N to Canada? It does not really fit into this thread but figured you two would enjoy.
|
| Clocker |
06-03-2018 08:11 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
(Post 2325025)
Mexico will pay for a wall, hardball is the name of the game.
You guys find it so shocking that follow threw occurs.
|
No, I would find it shocking if follow-through occurred.
Two things have to happen for that, and I would guess the probability of either is zero.
First, Trump has to get the money from Mexico. They already said that would never happen.
Second, Congress has to allocate the money to be spent on a wall. No Dems will vote for it without a lot of conditions that Trump won't accept, like amnesty for all illegals. In a recent poll of Republicans in Congress, 25% said they supported the wall. Most of the rest refused to answer the question. |
| fast4522 |
06-03-2018 08:55 PM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
(Post 2325061)
No, I would find it shocking if follow-through occurred.
Two things have to happen for that, and I would guess the probability of either is zero.
First, Trump has to get the money from Mexico. They already said that would never happen.
Second, Congress has to allocate the money to be spent on a wall. No Dems will vote for it without a lot of conditions that Trump won't accept, like amnesty for all illegals. In a recent poll of Republicans in Congress, 25% said they supported the wall. Most of the rest refused to answer the question.
|
Cool, first I want to take a break from this subject and tell you that it is quite cool your level of participation. With most its tampon on and gone, you have kept posting now there might be a following with others to see what is going on in the thread. Part of this is because it is very current. Enough of the niceties.
Brace yourself, your right that it has been a real slog that should not be. In a previous post in this thread I should have included a link.
http://www.wmur.com/article/25-arres...s-say/12107913
And the road goes on forever and drugs pour in, and people die, and the cost for these people being here illegally continues to soar. This should be a no brainier, so instead look forward to continued everything that some folks do not like. In the next few days we will have plenty of new material to keep this thread hot, tariffs real hot all summer perhaps petering out if good news occurs in NK. |
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