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-   -   Why have race charts always been this way? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163415)

SG4 03-01-2021 12:26 AM

Why have race charts always been this way?
 
When you look at a horse's PPs it says how many lengths behind they were at any point in the race, but full race charts always show how many lengths ahead of the next horse a horse was at each point of call. Wouldn't it make for better charts if each point of call said how many lengths behind the front runner each horse was at these points? Does anyone know if Equibase has ever considered switching to this method? To me I'd think this method would make charts a better tool for understanding race dynamics.

Johnny V 03-01-2021 08:32 AM

I really don't know why they have always been that way but I look at Brisnet race results and I always look at the alternative charts instead of the traditional charts. They list the lengths behind at each point of call. I too prefer this way of looking at the race results charts.

vegasone 03-01-2021 08:52 AM

Before they had computers readily available to figure that out, someone would have had to do that by hand. Just think of all the mistakes that would have been made. They used to misspell just about everything back then on the computer charts. I had a program that would figure out lengths behind.

cj 03-01-2021 09:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Equibase does list a "pp style" chart these days, just have to scroll down a bit.

I think it came to be because that is how chart callers call the data, the gaps between horses, not the total behind the leader.

mountainman 03-01-2021 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2704625)

I think it came to be because that is how chart callers call the data, the gaps between horses, not the total behind the leader.

Quite correct, sir. And the narrative gets pounded out immediately.

classhandicapper 03-01-2021 10:56 AM

I've been asking for this for DRF/formulator charts for a long time. You should be able to toggle back and forth between both options. The PP version gives you a better feel of the race flow.

SG4 03-01-2021 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2704625)
Equibase does list a "pp style" chart these days, just have to scroll down a bit.

I think it came to be because that is how chart callers call the data, the gaps between horses, not the total behind the leader.


I couldn't find the pp style chart on the equibase site, do you have a link? Is it part of free products or premium?

Dave Schwartz 03-01-2021 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2704633)
I've been asking for this for DRF/formulator charts for a long time. You should be able to toggle back and forth between both options. The PP version gives you a better feel of the race flow.

HSH has always done it that way.

Like most of you, I could just never understand why anyone would do anything else.

cj 03-01-2021 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG4 (Post 2704737)
I couldn't find the pp style chart on the equibase site, do you have a link? Is it part of free products or premium?

It is part of every free pdf chart, just have to scroll down a bit.

Tom 03-02-2021 06:04 PM

BRIS charts come both ways - you select regular or alternate style.
I always used the alternate (PP) style.

dilanesp 03-02-2021 07:19 PM

They literally have "always been this way". Here's a chart from 1900:

https://aheadbythree.files.wordpress...ng?w=620&h=258

Nitro 03-02-2021 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG4 (Post 2704586)
When you look at a horse's PPs it says how many lengths behind they were at any point in the race, but full race charts always show how many lengths ahead of the next horse a horse was at each point of call. Wouldn't it make for better charts if each point of call said how many lengths behind the front runner each horse was at these points? Does anyone know if Equibase has ever considered switching to this method? To me I'd think this method would make charts a better tool for understanding race dynamics.

No matter which charts you’re using the majority of players don’t really understand the true race dynamics anyway because they’re being misinterpreted. (Like many other subjective aspects of this game).

Those that do claim to understand it, obviously ignore the basic facts about object acceleration and deceleration because they’re simply relying on the formula for Velocity. “Velocity” is only a segment of the real dynamic of the accel/decel motion formula just like acceleration is only part of the “Force” formula.

I’m not going go into all of this again because I have no real interest at this point in my life trying to apply an exact science to a game that involves so much more that’s simply related to an animal’s mental and physical condition (and those who care for them).

I would only suggest that if someone is really interested in getting a clearer picture what’s involved in actual racing dynamics that they might want to take a peek at a thread I started a while ago called -
A Critique of Speed: Fallacies in Creating Accurate Speed Figures
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...d.php?t=148582

Of course you’ll notice that there will be some who may disagree with my comments, but ignore the facts at your own detriment, if you’re honestly trying to understand the motion dynamics of previously run race.
.

cj 03-02-2021 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom (Post 2704860)
BRIS charts come both ways - you select regular or alternate style.
I always used the alternate (PP) style.

Same with TimeformUS, just a quick toggle.

SG4 03-02-2021 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2704741)
It is part of every free pdf chart, just have to scroll down a bit.


Thanks...jeez, I must've scrolled past this part of the charts mindlessly thousands of times & never realized it was there

The_Turf_Monster 03-02-2021 10:36 PM

Just use it as an indicator of how effective and accurate the charts are. I wouldn’t be using lengths if you’re not making your own charts via something automated that doesn’t take the human eye into context.

Think about reliable a chart is that calls lengths rather than distance traveled into account


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