TimeformUS
 

Anyone familiar with the Timeformus website?

https://timeformus.com/

In beta test now,a couple of free races a day. Looks like some interesting stuff

Interesting site - thanks for the head up.
Will check it out this long weekend.

Yes it is interesting. Might they be getting ready for the Breeders' Cup market?

The word is that the best is yet to come. ;)

Timeform started about 70 years ago by Phil Bull.

It has always been the form book of choice for the racing connosieur but a few years ago it go bought out by Betfair.

That's not really a problem but the biggest impact of their ratings and analysis is that it is available to view by thousands of Betfair customers. It is also available to view, free, for every race by bookmakers such as Ladbrokes.

You have to think about that for a while. Bookmakers promoting a form / ratings service? What do you think is going to happen to the prices of the hyped up runners?

It brings about the best of situations for savvy race bettors.
Over bet, hyped-up, favorites are "green light" races for some.

I'm a part of this, so obviously I'm biased, but I think you guys are going to love what you see if you give it a shot.

Here are a couple examples of the "Pace Projector" from the weekend, the Dwyer and the Queen's Plate:

I got some early access and think it's great!

Looking forward to it. Thanks for the heads up. :)

Good to know that I'm not the only one that mistakenly thought even Junior Alvarado, who could rate Dr. Fager in a match race, couldn't have Abraham well off the Dwyer lead.

How would one use these differently than what we have with BRIS? BRIS does have a CR (class rating). Isn't this similar to timeform? The only advantage that i'm seeing at the moment is when shippers from outside North America show up here. I don't wager outside North America, so this won't be a benefit for me.

I hope they have great success. More options can only be good for racing. But in America on dirt tracks it's about speed. We already have the best figures for our races. But turf races ..... hmmm

I prefer separate pace and speed figures to a single conglomerated number. I would miss the interplay between projected race shapes for my contenders. I don't always use this measure but it is in my arsenal. Yes, I understand they will offer a separate pace figure in the future. But the main big one number idea seems like something to attract new inexperienced players. That would be a good thing.

At the end of the day, whosever figures you use or whatever calculation you make, it comes down to subsets of winners. Seems like methods for isolating subsets go hot and cold too. Works for a while then tapers off and something else starts working better. It's a fluid situation not best defined by a single number. But of course most people aren't thinking like that. It's all about living and die-ing with the current race, the one you bet the light bill on. :confused:

CJ - are you working for/with Timeform US?

your post said you are "part of this"

Interesting comment about another all encompassing rating number. Here again BRIS has a good one in their Prime Number.

You should start a thread about Bris it appears!

BRIS happens to be what I use and know. I'm sure there are other all encompassing ratings out there. The question is what does TimeForm-US offer or considers that these other systems don't? Like I said, there might be value for horses shipping in from outside North America. Otherwise, I'm not seeing their value.

Excellent point.....

Small mind!

You're touting Bris, which, yes, many of us use in conjunction, in the past with Cj's Pace Figures. You haven't any real knowledge of TimeFormUS, yet you're able to form an opinion with one quick look. I'm not getting into a pissing match with you. But regaling Bris is not what the thread is about. Mind--less.

All he said was that he didn't need a new number for himself. I think he was positive about the idea of getting help with foreign shippers. I didn't see his post as being negative. Maybe y'all have butted heads before. :)

What are Cj's Pace Figures? A reference no doubt to the poster cj.

As with all new things there will be a steep learning curve. In trying to guess whether Timeform would be worth such effort, I scanned through their table listing results from playing the best Timeform spotlight figures on 9190 U.S. races (March 15 to June 11, 2013).

Unfortunately, while they show each horse that was bet, they only list the number of wins (29.5%) and in the money (63%) rates. If their numbers mostly pick favorites, it doesn't look good. Missing is the what the horses paid. Don't you think if they had a positive ROI for this test they would have highlighted it?

I'm a little skeptical. Is anyone using their numbers at this time?

I couldn't care any less, and I'll leave it up to you guys.

I don't feel like analyzing message board etiquette.
I've got races to analyze, a yard to cut and some errands to run.

There's a certain level of common sense that if a new idea is presented with some level of legitimacy, that you try to be constructive with your comments.

I figure we are all at different levels of skill and commitment and even preferences regarding which tools we use.

anyway... Timeform-US ? sounds like an idea that has some promise. :ThmbUp: cool.

If CJ vouches for it that's good enough for me. Nobody beats his figures.


:ThmbUp:

Yes, I am the figure maker and had some input on the design. The color coding, for example, was a staple of my program.

This will definitely be added and soon.

I like the clarity of presentation in their basic pp (as of now they have 2 free races per day).

for someone who views a lot of PPs online, I like the easy-on-eyes presentation style (as opposed to drf/bris/equibase pdf pps). Of course data base users could easily modify this (and use color formatting inside excel) but I am not yet at that stage so I like this one mainly for the tablet viewing angle. I wrote this note before cj's post about color coding, but didnt post it yet.

drf formulator is also good (v good in fact) but price is the issue there for me.

Well, again I'm biased, but does BRIS offer anything like the Pace Projector I posted here? Also, you can't possibly judge if TUS numbers are as good or better until you try them. It is certainly an advantage that TUS numbers have human intervention, not sure anybody could argue that.

I would also say the PPs are just plain easier to read. They use the full chart comment instead of the brief comment. The color coding is a bonus. They are updated on the fly for scratches. And best yet, they won't be stagnant. The PPs will evolve to what players want in 2013, not live in 1993.

I'd give you the numbers if I had them. I would guess they don't have a + ROI over such a huge number of races, but I don't think it was tested yet. One of the goals of the numbers is to actually tell you which horses ran fastest, not which horses are the best value. Those are two very different things.

I could probably produce a figure that would be close to a break even ROI over a very large set of races, but would win less than 10% of the time. This is not what customers want in my opinion.

I signed up for the free pps

Exceeded my expectations.

pretty cool. I liked the interface, and the Pace Projector looks interesting.

Congrats CJ - sounds like a good gig :ThmbUp:

What is the added value of TUS? At least, what does it offer so I should decide to try it? That's all I'm asking. Need a reason to buy in and spend time doing the research.

Try it out with their free races and see if you like it.

You read me correctly. This is a new product. Give me a reason to want to even test it. Pretty graphs and pictures do nothing for me. There are a lot of all encompassing numbers, why should I bother? the shippers are the only reason that I can see at the moment.

Get off your righteous. The fact is that I don't have any real knowledge of TimeFormUS. That's why I am asking what does it have to offer. BRIS just happens to be what I know, a point of reference for further discussion.

Instead of continually asking what it has to offer, why don't you go to their site and EDUCATE yourself about it...then you will have a better idea of whether or not you want to use it.

I am guessing that neither CJ nor anyone else with TUS is going to give you a personal tutorial and tour of the site.
You are a big boy - go see for yourself.

I simply brought to attention--the obvious. Now, you're carrying on and repeating yourself. Maybe do what Phantom suggested. If you like what you see, good. Stick around and learn more about the product. If its not for you, quietly let it go and move on. No loss for you or TUS. That's really all there is to it.

I didn't know you were involved. Knowing that will cause me to take another look. I've been a beta tester since the beginning and was most excited about figures to compare foreign horses. Personally, I found it a bit unclear, and I shared those thoughts during testing.

I think the pace projector is very good and tends to be accurate, it's just that for me, it usually matches what I project, so it didn't save me time on my handicapping. For someone who's visual though, I could see it being a great asset.

The pp's are much more simplified and clear than others I've seen, and I'm a big fan of that. I use custom pp's that come out of jcapper, so I only supplement my handicapping process with regular pp's. I don't have need for a lot of the information, and these pp's showed me just the right amount.

It is still being improved, so I don't have any final verdict, but I definitely like it much better than other PP's out there in the market. Not sure if I find enough added value to add it to my arsenal, but if I was playing with bris or equibase pp's, I would switch in a heartbeat.

There are certainly some very smart, very good horseplayers involved, even more so now that I know CJ is involved. That's enough for me to keep an eye on the improvements and see how the finished product comes out.

What non-sense.

Thanks

Parx Race 7 = WIN
 

You guys nailed the exacta
came in 2-6

I exacta boxed 2-6-5 for $1
cost = $6 , I got back $13.80 :cool:

good stuff.