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-   -   NYRA: Baffert and Vitali are detrimental to the sport of T-Bred Racing (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166662)

Andy Asaro 09-10-2021 01:32 PM

NYRA: Baffert and Vitali are detrimental to the sport of T-Bred Racing
 
Love this. Good on NYRA for stepping up while the rest of the Industry seems to want to rehabilitate Baffert.



Andy Asaro 09-10-2021 01:40 PM



Excerpt:

NYRA contends that Baffert and Vitali "have engaged in conduct that is detrimental to the best interests of the sport of Thoroughbred racing or potentially injurious to the health or safety of horses or riders.

"Further, as detailed in the respective statements of charges, this conduct warrants revocation or suspension of their right to train horses, enter races, or engage in any racing-related activity at all NYRA properties including Aqueduct Racetrack, Belmont Park and Saratoga Race Course."

NYRA provides a formalized mechanism for a respondent to reply to charges as part of its Hearing Rules and Procedures. It allows for a respondent to reply to charges and to participate in a hearing in accordance with due process rights.

Baffert has a hearing scheduled to begin on Sept. 27. Vitali's is scheduled to begin Sept. 30.

“NYRA has a responsibility to protect the integrity of the sport of thoroughbred racing,” said NYRA President & CEO Dave O’Rourke. “We are determined to ensure the actions taken in furtherance of that goal comport with the requirements of due process, which is what the hearing rules and procedures established by NYRA provide.”

Sysonby 09-10-2021 03:28 PM

Churchill just announced no points would be awarded to a potential Kentucky Derby candidate if trained by a trainer suspended from the Kentucky Derby. Sounds like they're trying to avoid a situation where a horse gets transferred to a new trainer a month before the KD.

Andy Asaro 09-10-2021 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sysonby (Post 2753157)
Churchill just announced no points would be awarded to a potential Kentucky Derby candidate if trained by a trainer suspended from the Kentucky Derby. Sounds like they're trying to avoid a situation where a horse gets transferred to a new trainer a month before the KD.


Sysonby 09-10-2021 03:37 PM

Art Wilson
@Sham73
·
Sep 10
Replying to
@Sham73
Also, any trainer who is "directly or indirectly employed, supervised, or advised by a suspended trainer."

Wow, they are not fooling around.

Andy Asaro 09-10-2021 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sysonby (Post 2753159)
Art Wilson
@Sham73
·
Sep 10
Replying to
@Sham73
Also, any trainer who is "directly or indirectly employed, supervised, or advised by a suspended trainer."

Wow, they are not fooling around.

This past weekend it seemed like a coordinated effort to rehab Baffert and he was loving it. Not so fast Bob.

Be interesting to see what the Breeders' Cup does

dilanesp 09-10-2021 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sysonby (Post 2753157)
Churchill just announced no points would be awarded to a potential Kentucky Derby candidate if trained by a trainer suspended from the Kentucky Derby. Sounds like they're trying to avoid a situation where a horse gets transferred to a new trainer a month before the KD.

They answered my question from the other thread.

Baffert is a cornered animal now.

AndyC 09-10-2021 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753166)
They answered my question from the other thread.

Baffert is a cornered animal now.




CD wisely put the rule in now as opposed to making a retroactive change sometime next spring.

dilanesp 09-10-2021 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC (Post 2753170)
CD wisely put the rule in now as opposed to making a retroactive change sometime next spring.

Legally it doesn't matter. CD could just refuse the entries at the entry box. But I suppose it denies the owners a PR campaign. They were warned.

cj 09-10-2021 08:23 PM

Imagine being lumped in with a guy like Vitali. That is a about as low as it gets.

Andy Asaro 09-10-2021 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2753196)
Imagine being lumped in with a guy like Vitali. That is a about as low as it gets.

It was intentional IMO and I'm good with that.

dilanesp 09-10-2021 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 2753196)
Imagine being lumped in with a guy like Vitali. That is a about as low as it gets.

In a sense, this is Baffert's legal strategy backfiring. He had one correct argument, but it was entirely procedural- NYRA, which for some reason has constantly denied it is part of the government for decades and repeatedly had its butt beaten in court on that issue, is in fact part of the government and has to obey due process.

So NYRA has now called Baffert's bluff and said "OK, you want us to lay out formal charges, here you go". And the result of this is not just a suspension proceeding, but basically a press release trashing Baffert. Here's your due process, big boy!

azeri98 09-10-2021 08:47 PM

Now they have to prove it. Let's see where that goes. Good luck with that.

dilanesp 09-10-2021 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azeri98 (Post 2753199)
Now they have to prove it. Let's see where that goes. Good luck with that.

They have the goods. On that, there has never been any doubt. Sports with better drug testing systems would have imposed harsh suspensions on Baffert decades ago.

AndyC 09-10-2021 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753179)
Legally it doesn't matter. CD could just refuse the entries at the entry box. But I suppose it denies the owners a PR campaign. They were warned.




Let's talk real world. Does CD want to spend substantial money trying to show that "legally it doesn't matter"? There would be a 100% chance that a lawsuit would have resulted if CD had waited until next spring to make retroactive rules. Actions taken next spring would be seen as punishment of the owners as well as the intended target. Now there is a very clear path for the owners to take.

Hedevar 09-10-2021 09:50 PM

The chickens come home to roost.

Andy Asaro 09-10-2021 10:00 PM


Hedevar 09-10-2021 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753198)
In a sense, this is Baffert's legal strategy backfiring. He had one correct argument, but it was entirely procedural- NYRA, which for some reason has constantly denied it is part of the government for decades and repeatedly had its butt beaten in court on that issue, is in fact part of the government and has to obey due process.

So NYRA has now called Baffert's bluff and said "OK, you want us to lay out formal charges, here you go". And the result of this is not just a suspension proceeding, but basically a press release trashing Baffert. Here's your due process, big boy!

Its about time somebody in NY woke up.

dilanesp 09-10-2021 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC (Post 2753203)
Let's talk real world. Does CD want to spend substantial money trying to show that "legally it doesn't matter"? There would be a 100% chance that a lawsuit would have resulted if CD had waited until next spring to make retroactive rules. Actions taken next spring would be seen as punishment of the owners as well as the intended target. Now there is a very clear path for the owners to take.

They will still get sued.

The issue is NOT "getting sued". Rich people who don't get what they want always sue.

AndyC 09-10-2021 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753221)
They will still get sued.

The issue is NOT "getting sued". Rich people who don't get what they want always sue.


They would sue because they couldn't use a banned trainer?

dilanesp 09-10-2021 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC (Post 2753230)
They would sue because they couldn't use a banned trainer?

Or Baffert will sue. Or both.

Churchill expects lawsuits. The thing is, they are right. They owe zero obligation to let a guy who cheated in their race compete in it. And they will win.

The_Turf_Monster 09-10-2021 11:53 PM

Let’s make no mistake what’s going on here, and it’s about time some state does it……and there’s only one that could. Kentucky with its problem child on the west coast is getting put in its place by New York.

dilanesp 09-11-2021 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster (Post 2753245)
Let’s make no mistake what’s going on here, and it’s about time some state does it……and there’s only one that could. Kentucky with its problem child on the west coast is getting put in its place by New York.

Re: the west coast.

We can't fill fields, run less and less racedays, and Baffert sometimes runs 2 or 3 horses in our big stakes. That made him untouchable.

California regulators are truly scared of a big suspension coming out of Kentucky. Because they would have to abide by it under reciprocity, and that would leave our racing completely decimated.

But the reckoning is coming, one way or another.

The_Turf_Monster 09-11-2021 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753250)
Re: the west coast.

We can't fill fields, run less and less racedays, and Baffert sometimes runs 2 or 3 horses in our big stakes. That made him untouchable.

California regulators are truly scared of a big suspension coming out of Kentucky. Because they would have to abide by it under reciprocity, and that would leave our racing completely decimated.

But the reckoning is coming, one way or another.

He and his owners can be as untouchable as they want in California in my opinion, but this goes beyond that

This is a straight shot across the bow of the KD and Breeders cup

SandyW 09-11-2021 12:53 AM

I can't believe the hate that I read in this thread, what has happened to the people in this country?

ReplayRandall 09-11-2021 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW (Post 2753255)
I can't believe the hate that I read in this thread, what has happened to the people in this country?

What specifically bothers you?

SandyW 09-11-2021 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall (Post 2753258)
What specifically bothers you?

The outright rooting for the downfall of other human beings, not very God like.

PaceAdvantage 09-11-2021 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW (Post 2753260)
The outright rooting for the downfall of other human beings, not very God like.

He caused his own downfall.

Nobody had to root for it.

Are you endorsing cheaters?

Is cheating God-like?

dilanesp 09-11-2021 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW (Post 2753260)
The outright rooting for the downfall of other human beings, not very God like.

His downfall? Don't be ridiculous. He has more money than God and nobody is proposing taking it away from him.

We are rooting for the sport to be cleaned up.

SandyW 09-11-2021 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753262)
His downfall? Don't be ridiculous. He has more money than God and nobody is proposing taking it away from him.

We are rooting for the sport to be cleaned up.

If this sport was completely cleaned up you would not have enough horses to fill one race card a week at any racetrack.

There have been problems with horse racing as far back as anybody reading these posts can remember.

Wherever their is money involved problems will exist. The lords of racing are always going after somebody.

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW (Post 2753265)
If this sport was completely cleaned up you would not have enough horses to fill one race card a week at any racetrack.

There have been problems with horse racing as far back as anybody reading these posts can remember.

Wherever their is money involved problems will exist. The lords of racing are always going after somebody.

The opposite is true. The horses they juice to run beyond what they are naturally capable of retire early and many just disappear instead of running till 7,8,or 9 years old.

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 08:37 AM


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/s...na-spirit.html

Excerpt:

The leaders of the Breeders’ Cup, a Super Bowl of sorts
for horseplayers, have been loud proponents of drug-free racing. But many of its board members employ Baffert as their trainer.

Earlier this month, a colt called Pinehurst, trained by Baffert, won the Del Mar Futurity, establishing himself as a favorite in the $2 million Breeders’ Cup Juvenile. He is partially owned by the board members Gavin Murphy of SF Bloodstock and Barbara Banke of Stonestreet Stables.

Racing Officials in Kentucky and New York Move to Marginalize Baffert

dilanesp 09-11-2021 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyW (Post 2753265)
If this sport was completely cleaned up you would not have enough horses to fill one race card a week at any racetrack.

There have been problems with horse racing as far back as anybody reading these posts can remember.

Wherever their is money involved problems will exist. The lords of racing are always going after somebody.

Full cleanup is impossible, but that doesn't mean anything goes or you can't go after repeat offenders.

Hedevar 09-11-2021 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753262)
His downfall? Don't be ridiculous. He has more money than God and nobody is proposing taking it away from him.

We are rooting for the sport to be cleaned up.

He better have more money than God. His expenses are just beginning. Lets get the DOJ involved.

classhandicapper 09-11-2021 10:13 AM

IMO Baffert has been his own worst enemy on this one. He was probably so used to getting slaps on the wrist for all these therapeutic overages (as is everyone else that has had many) he underestimated their will to really punish him for tarnishing the Oaks and Derby. He should have just made his “ointment” excuse to the press, accepted a suspension, and taken a vacation for awhile.

He has more money than God and still had plenty of wealthy owners on his side to support an eventual comeback. He didn’t need all this crap and bad will. There was very little to be gained by blowing this up. The only thing that made sense to me was trying to salvage his reputation with further blood and urine tests, and only in the event he’s actually telling the truth this time.

If he wants to be the ultimate villain he can switch to training claimers for awhile and have owners take horses out of KY and NY and bring them to CA.

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753286)
IMO Baffert has been his own worst enemy on this one. He was probably so used to getting slaps on the wrist for all these therapeutic overages (as is everyone else that has had many) he underestimated their will to really punish him for tarnishing the Oaks and Derby. He should have just made his “ointment” excuse to the press, accepted a suspension, and taken a vacation for awhile.

He has more money than God and still had plenty of wealthy owners on his side to support an eventual comeback. He didn’t need all this crap and bad will. There was very little to be gained by blowing this up. The only thing that made sense to me was trying to salvage his reputation with further blood and urine tests, and only in the event he’s actually telling the truth this time.

If he wants to be the ultimate villain he can switch to training claimers for awhile and have owners take horses out of KY and NY and bring them to CA.

20 or 30 million doesn't last that long with the kind of legal fees he's paying. Easy to go through 10 million over 5 years and probably more.

classhandicapper 09-11-2021 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro (Post 2753288)
20 or 30 million doesn't last that long with the kind of legal fees he's paying. Easy to go through 10 million over 5 years and probably more.

I doubt his personal effort to fight these suspensions etc.. will go on for years. He’s not going to burn through millions over years just to avoid a suspension that will probably be shorter than the legal fight.

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753290)
I doubt his personal effort to fight these suspensions etc.. will go on for years. He’s not going to burn through millions over years just to avoid a suspension that will probably be shorter than the legal fight.

What's going on now could be career ending. California and the Breeders Cup, especially the California Horse Racing Board is most responsible for enabling Baffert.

Hedevar 09-11-2021 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753290)
I doubt his personal effort to fight these suspensions etc.. will go on for years. He’s not going to burn through millions over years just to avoid a suspension that will probably be shorter than the legal fight.

Fighting suspensions will be the least of his problems if the Justice Department opens an investigation.

Hedevar 09-11-2021 11:03 AM

Lets see how long his wealthy owners stick with him if he gets indicted for an interstate conspiracy. There are other competent trainers around.


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