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-   -   NYRA: Baffert and Vitali are detrimental to the sport of T-Bred Racing (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166662)

dilanesp 09-11-2021 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azeri98 (Post 2753303)
I'm not naive. You made my point. They are trying to make an example of him because he's high profile. They all cheat. Just like the steroid era in baseball. Bonds and Clemens get crucified whereas guys like Piazza, Bagwell, Biggio and Pudge Rodriguez are welcomed into the Hall of Fame. It's a joke. D Wayne Lukas's horses were all drugged to the max when he was on top and the sport nor government did anything . His record has gone downhill since he hasn't had a drug positive. My point is it's discrimination to go after one guy like this with excessive bans. If they want stiffer penalties then do it to everybody, not a slap on the wrist. give them all 2 year suspensions.

You have an incorrect definition of discrimination.

If you run red lights all the time, and a number of other people run them with some frequency, it isn't discrimination that the cops pull you over. At worst you can say it is bad luck.

And if you, unlike the others, get caught running a red light at the most important intersection in town and the others didn't, it's really not discrimination.

You are demanding either perfect enforcement or no enforcement. NO legal system could live up to your standard.

Hedevar 09-11-2021 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azeri98 (Post 2753303)
I'm not naive. You made my point. They are trying to make an example of him because he's high profile. They all cheat. Just like the steroid era in baseball. Bonds and Clemens get crucified whereas guys like Piazza, Bagwell, Biggio and Pudge Rodriguez are welcomed into the Hall of Fame. It's a joke. D Wayne Lukas's horses were all drugged to the max when he was on top and the sport nor government did anything . His record has gone downhill since he hasn't had a drug positive. My point is it's discrimination to go after one guy like this with excessive bans. If they want stiffer penalties then do it to everybody, not a slap on the wrist. give them all 2 year suspensions.

I guess this would be the first time the G ever made an example of someone. Whatever Baffert gets he richly deserves. He made himself a target.

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 11:11 AM


dilanesp 09-11-2021 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753304)
I think some of you guys are getting silly. He is accused of, and admitted to, a several picogram overage of a legal therapeutic drug that trainers all over the country use legally. As far as we can tell from public disclosure all they can show is that he “probably” gambled and administered it later than the suggested window that ensures it would be out of the horse’s system by race time. If it wasn’t Baffert and the Derby he probably would have gotten another slap on the wrist.

It was the Derby though.

And by the way, I don't believe Baffert. I think trainers lie about these things. When's the last time ANY trainer just flat admitted he doped a horse.

One reason we have testing and suspensions is because trainers are never going to be honest about this sort of thing. So instead of crediting explanations, we should be saying "we don't care, you figure out how to not test positive".

classhandicapper 09-11-2021 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753312)
It was the Derby though.

And by the way, I don't believe Baffert. I think trainers lie about these things. When's the last time ANY trainer just flat admitted he doped a horse.

He agreed the horse was positive based on subsequent tests.

He disagrees on how the positive came about.

A. Pineda 09-11-2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753304)
I think some of you guys are getting silly. He is accused of, and admitted to, a several picogram overage of a legal therapeutic drug that trainers all over the country use legally...

This is a very disingenuous statement. The overage is per milliliter of blood, which means there were at least 1,050,000 picograms in the horse's system. Since this drug masks pain, it is dangerous to both horse and rider when racing with betamethasone.

classhandicapper 09-11-2021 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. Pineda (Post 2753314)
This is a very disingenuous statement. The overage is per milliliter of blood, which means there were at least 1,050,000 picograms in the horse's system. Since this drug masks pain, it is dangerous to both horse and rider when racing with betamethasone.

The rule is the rule. He broke it. So he should be suspended and the horse DQ’d, but this was a very low level of the drug. In the past it was probably too low to even generate a positive. I didn’t see a quote by a single vet saying this level of positive was in any way performance enhancing.

dilanesp 09-11-2021 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753313)
He agreed the horse was positive based on subsequent tests.

He disagrees on how the positive came about.

Let's pretend he actually doped the horse. Would he admit it or would he say the same thing he is saying?

His statement is therefore worthless as proof.

A. Pineda 09-11-2021 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classhandicapper (Post 2753316)
The rule is the rule. He broke it. So he should be suspended and the horse DQ’d, but this was a very low level of the drug. In the past it was probably too low to even generate a positive. I didn’t see a quote by a single vet saying this level of positive was in any way performance enhancing.

You're right. Because this drug doesn't make horses run faster, it's not considered performance-enhancing. What it does do, though, is allow a horse to run through pain, which is dangerous. It allows a sore horse to pass a vet inspection, also not good.

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 12:04 PM

Baffert isn't cheating with what he got caught for. Read the Navarro/Servis transcripts about testing.

A. Pineda 09-11-2021 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro (Post 2753320)
Baffert isn't cheating with what he got caught for. Read the Navarro/Servis transcripts about testing.

Maybe it was an honest mistake. There are different formulations of that drug, administered to different parts of horses with varying weights and achieving varying results.

Baffert's history is not helpful.

Hedevar 09-11-2021 12:32 PM

Unfortunately for Bob, he can not give PEDs or analgesics to his lawyers.

azeri98 09-11-2021 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp (Post 2753308)
You have an incorrect definition of discrimination.

If you run red lights all the time, and a number of other people run them with some frequency, it isn't discrimination that the cops pull you over. At worst you can say it is bad luck.

And if you, unlike the others, get caught running a red light at the most important intersection in town and the others didn't, it's really not discrimination.

You are demanding either perfect enforcement or no enforcement. NO legal system could live up to your standard.

No you have the wrong definition. Many trainers have had drug positives, yet they are not banned from the Derby, BC or Nyra tracks. That's the definition of discrimination. I'm not defending Baffert per se. I want consistency. Just like baseball. You either keep them all out of the Hall of Fame or you don't. You either ban trainers the same amount of time or you don't. This was a small infraction compared to others. It's a witch hunt, nothing more.

azeri98 09-11-2021 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedevar (Post 2753310)
I guess this would be the first time the G ever made an example of someone. Whatever Baffert gets he richly deserves. He made himself a target.

Agreed then moving forward every trainer with a failed drug test should be treated the same. 2 year suspension from Churchill, no BC races and banned from Nyra tracks. Correct?

Andy Asaro 09-11-2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. Pineda (Post 2753322)
Maybe it was an honest mistake. There are different formulations of that drug, administered to different parts of horses with varying weights and achieving varying results.

Baffert's history is not helpful.

When you combine all the horse deaths of the same heart related issues in 2013 and having at least 5 horses of a lifetime every year, and their truly extraordinary performances it's an easy call. And all of it was enabled by the CHRB


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