Criminal Act by Sonny Leon GP 4th race
 

Serious??

take a look at Gp 4th race.#2

"Seriously?" is right.

now thats what i call rating a horse :pound:

What am I supposed to see?

You guys think he purposefully stiffed the horse? :lol:

Am I on twitter?

It's a Tweet from the worst racing related Twitter account....and that's saying a LOT.

He's a mediocre rider. This is hardly news. He probably should have tried to hold his position better but to suggest he was cheating is moronic.

cheating we all know that never happens in games of chance does it ?and who said he cheated i did not read that word in the posts :lol:

Reading is hard, I get it.

weather the horse was ridden poorly or not it doesn't matter once you make your bet its out of your control . but dont think for a minute that any game of chance can not be rigged . i rember a jockey named billy patton it was i believe the oaklawn derby . on national tv tossing something at the clubhouse turn after the finish . and the next day or so they raked the turn and found more than 20 of these fine little devices ! :lol:

Clearly, you are for more expert at watching races for in-race moves (or non-moves) than I am.

As moronic as you may think it is, I simply do not understand why a jockey would offer zero urging to a horse on the lead until he settled into next-to-last and then, suddenly, step on the gas.

Maybe a little bit of that urging on the front end would have given the horse an honest shot, especially since he ran 3rd.

Heck, had he started that urging when he was only 4 lengths back instead of circling the field, the horse might have won by 3.

Nonsense.

As for Sonny Leon.

The horse finished 4th because he was 4th best at best.

He looks like a very lazy horse who doesn't like being rushed, doesn't like the inside and is no great fan of Tapeta.

He kinda fooled Leon for a stride or two at the 5/16th's into thinking he might get a bigger piece.

Didn't carry on with that.

Hung on his left lead until very late.

There's one of the things that all you stiff masters don't consider.

Do you think these jocks purposely keep horses on the wrong lead inhibit performance? Now that would be a trick.

Please at least know what you're watching.

A small late spurt made it a closer 4th and that was that.

No stiff.

No horse.

No story.

VJ Stauffer,


Now, THAT is a helpful explanation that even a guy like me can make sense of.

Thank you.
:ThmbUp:

To carry on with that, would you also say that perhaps a better jockey would have been able to get him to switch leads? Or even have changed the entire ride?


Dave

I hope he will have more success. I have an autographed photo. :lol:

I wouldn't have described his trip like that in any way. He tried a little to hold the position and the horse was backing out. It happens. He also hardly "suddenly stepped on the gas" and he definitely didn't "circle the field." Actually, save the situation of position, he gave him an OK ride, saving ground and splitting horses. Frankly, I think the biggest crime in watching that video is cutting to a useless head-on angle mid-race. We will never know what took place during that period.

People tend to exaggerate trips and trouble. This horse isn't fast enough to keep up with the leader. He also might not have loved being inside of horses. Blaming Leon, and claiming he did something "criminal" is ridiculous, and that's being nice. Irad Ortiz might have finished second on him today. I don't see a scenario where he would have won.

Sure it's possible.

If a horse is common it's tough to get that out of them.

But great hands and instincts can help.

The mistake wasn't in letting the horse drift back. The mistake was putting the horse on the lead to begin with. This one should have been mid-pack early. I had Trappe The Wind as typically a late energy horse (% Median) and I had him second on my odds line. I also had Leon rated highly.

It should also be noted that the trainer has not been doing well at GP or on all-weather.

I don't think he LET him drift back.

I think when he asked him to maintain position, he didn't get anything from his mount.

Tapeta is funny. For some it's really hard to quicken. They have to gather momentum.

Very difficult for horses who don't like the surface.

Once he started to shuffle. Then the horse also showed he wasn't a fan of being inside and sucked himself all the way out of it.

Tough to ride and bad horses can make jocks look really bad sometimes.

The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.

Correct. i poorly worded my response to earlier assertions.

He was over 12% at the meet.

Championship meet? Tapeta has made Gulfstream irrelevant handle was down 30% last year it’s now known as the ChampionSHIT meet.

thread is titled criminal act...way to be smart

Actually, the supposed big meet begins on 12/26 this year. In prior years it would have started today.

I agree with Pace and TLG
 

there was no stiff job here

Gulfstream's Tapeta is actually extremely off the pace favoring for the most part (which I think makes it particularly bettable, given the reactions here and how slow people are to realize this, it's blatantly clear actually) - Sonny seemed to understand

Early Speed almost never holds on the Tapeta at Gulfstream

as for races never being stiffed, of course they are

Without looking at a Racing Form I can't judge. I didn't see anything horrible about the ride, we are talking low level maiden claimers.

Ride reminds of me of when Eddie D. & Corey Black stiffed A.P. Indy & Flying Continental in the 1992 Belmont & 1990 Jockey Club Gold Cup, respectively.

I think a fair compromise to the debate here is that Leon "criminally overrated" his mount?

it's a cliche, but... When a Jockey is riding well, they find ways to win. When a Jockey is not riding well, they find ways to lose.

Must you ruin the fun geez

Although this ride doesn't strictly fit the Leon template (there seemed other factors involved in this trip), Sonny is highly unorthodox in rationing a horse's energy, and I have seen him engineer similar running lines many times.

A favorite trick of his with horses prominent early but unable to hold aggressive position is to COMPLETELY lay out by relaxing his mount and dropping off the pace. I mean he wants the horse to shut down through the mid-stages and forget there is even a race in progress. Surprisingly often, he manages to come again with a late burst, usually splitting horses, and win with a runner visually dismissed earlier on.

Sonny's internal clock just ticks at a different tempo.

=It's so easy for people to holler STIFF!

Do jocks hold horses?

Sure, it happens but not nearly as often as people think.

There are a million reasons why it may appear a rider is not giving a maximum effort that aren't nefarious.

By far the biggest one is horses that are sore.

Well then just take them to the vet and have them scratched.

For reasons I haven't figured out in my 45 years in the game. Trainers get pissed when horses are late VET scratches. Jock's are more willing to not let a sore one run than hear the wrath and lost business from trainers who will take them off other horses.

I'd think they'd be happy the rider and vet are looking out for the best welfare of the horse. You can always run back in a couple weeks.

I guess they think it makes them look bad. I don't.

Other reasons why a horse may look like it's being stiffed?

Green, still learning.

Equipment they hate.

Riders that are well let's just say not as brave as some others. This becomes clear very quickly and that jock's business goes immediately into the crapper.

Here's a big one. TRACK CONDITION. When a horse hates the track, the jock feels like he's trying to walk across an ice rink in spike heels. It's going to make the jock look very tentative as though he's not trying when in fact, he's just trying to nurse him along and avoid anyone getting hurt.

Studs who just refuse to run. Beating them up and overtrying is counterproductive. Just pisses them off and makes them more contrary.

Fillies that are in heat. Horses that like running behind fillies that are in heat. Believe me that happens. Thankfully I don't do that anymore.

Then we graduate into actual race fixing. A multipronged conspiracy.

Does that happen? Yes. But I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I've seen it since I first came to the races in 1975.

There's no reason to risk an entire career by "trying" to make one big score. Especially with multiple people being involved.

Bottom line. Are there some shady characters? Sure, no different than any other billion-dollar industry.

But there are also legions of qualified regulators that know what to look for. Stewards, TRPB, Commissions, HISA, myself.

As well as people who have devoted their lives to gaining intimate knowledge into the real interworking's of the game, TLG et al, that also know what to look for.

My suggestion is to take all the times many of you are wasting looking for jocks who are stiffing horses and use that time to dive deeper into your handicapping and find ways to take the money of the conspiracy theorists and lazy cappers who aren't willing to do the work.

LET'S GO!

If I had bet that horse, I would be giddy ith the ride!
I got to root TWICE in the same race. Usually, I justchat with the ambulence driver for a couple minutes.

But this a good discussion, because it shows how important good race watching reall is. We went from a grand jury indictment to a perfectly logicall explanation and maybe a horse to watch.

Thanks for the insight, much appreciated. What I quoted described Bill Shoemaker during his last couple years riding. A lot of people seemed to turn a blind eye to that. I for one did not. Unless he was on any easy lone F, I did not bet on him. I will admit I cashed my record win bet $ profit on one of his rides. Maybe having the Shoe up made her odds better and others were catching on.

thank you V.J. your point is well taken . and you sir are the first track employee that has at least acknowledged that it could occur i do agree that it is rare but its one of the hazards of making a bet . as for the jocks ride he made a mistake going to the front route races are not very often won on the front end gl :headbanger:

I would not bet on an artificial track with someone else's money.

What if I gave you some [I]counterfit[/ money? :)I]

Actually in sprints speed has been holding well and winning but yes in route races it favors of the pace horses,

I'd rather be betting Gulfstream at this time of the year instead of Aqueduct or Fairgrounds or Laurel

I think Tapeta brings about these goofy rides.