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- General Racing Discussion (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)

- - Criminal Act by Sonny Leon GP 4th race (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173624)

v j stauffer

12-01-2022 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz (Post 2844681)

VJ Stauffer,

Now, THAT is a helpful explanation that even a guy like me can make sense of.

Thank you.
:ThmbUp:

To carry on with that, would you also say that perhaps a better jockey would have been able to get him to switch leads? Or even have changed the entire ride?

Dave

Sure it's possible.

If a horse is common it's tough to get that out of them.

But great hands and instincts can help.

ranchwest

12-01-2022 09:51 PM

The mistake wasn't in letting the horse drift back. The mistake was putting the horse on the lead to begin with. This one should have been mid-pack early. I had Trappe The Wind as typically a late energy horse (% Median) and I had him second on my odds line. I also had Leon rated highly.

It should also be noted that the trainer has not been doing well at GP or on all-weather.

v j stauffer

12-01-2022 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranchwest (Post 2844695)

I don't think he LET him drift back.

I think when he asked him to maintain position, he didn't get anything from his mount.

Tapeta is funny. For some it's really hard to quicken. They have to gather momentum.

Very difficult for horses who don't like the surface.

Once he started to shuffle. Then the horse also showed he wasn't a fan of being inside and sucked himself all the way out of it.

Tough to ride and bad horses can make jocks look really bad sometimes.

wisconsin

12-01-2022 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed Figure (Post 2844689)

Sonny thought after winning the derby he would become a big time rider! He was very good in Ohio, but if he stays at GP when the big meet starts he’ll be lucky to win 10% of his mounts!

The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.

ranchwest

12-01-2022 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v j stauffer (Post 2844699)

I don't think he LET him drift back.

Correct. i poorly worded my response to earlier assertions.

Speed Figure

12-01-2022 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisconsin (Post 2844703)

The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.

I'm talking about the Championship Meet when the big name jockeys get there.

ranchwest

12-01-2022 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisconsin (Post 2844703)

The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.

He was over 12% at the meet.

Profesor

12-01-2022 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed Figure (Post 2844706)

I'm talking about the Championship Meet when the big name jockeys get there.

Championship meet? Tapeta has made Gulfstream irrelevant handle was down 30% last year it’s now known as the ChampionSHIT meet.

PaceAdvantage

12-01-2022 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkey11 (Post 2844667)

cheating we all know that never happens in games of chance does it ?and who said he cheated i did not read that word in the posts :lol:

thread is titled criminal act...way to be smart

the little guy

12-01-2022 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisconsin (Post 2844703)

The "big" meet started today. If he could somehow win at 10%, he'd be doing very well financially.

Actually, the supposed big meet begins on 12/26 this year. In prior years it would have started today.

Sheffwed

12-01-2022 11:09 PM

I agree with Pace and TLG

there was no stiff job here

Gulfstream's Tapeta is actually extremely off the pace favoring for the most part (which I think makes it particularly bettable, given the reactions here and how slow people are to realize this, it's blatantly clear actually) - Sonny seemed to understand

Early Speed almost never holds on the Tapeta at Gulfstream

as for races never being stiffed, of course they are

Inner Dirt

12-01-2022 11:27 PM

Without looking at a Racing Form I can't judge. I didn't see anything horrible about the ride, we are talking low level maiden claimers.

Spalding No!

12-02-2022 04:03 AM

Ride reminds of me of when Eddie D. & Corey Black stiffed A.P. Indy & Flying Continental in the 1992 Belmont & 1990 Jockey Club Gold Cup, respectively.

I think a fair compromise to the debate here is that Leon "criminally overrated" his mount?

porchy44

12-02-2022 05:44 AM

it's a cliche, but... When a Jockey is riding well, they find ways to win. When a Jockey is not riding well, they find ways to lose.

Brisk Urging

12-02-2022 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the little guy (Post 2844687)

I wouldn't have described his trip like that in any way. He tried a little to hold the position and the horse was backing out. It happens. He also hardly "suddenly stepped on the gas" and he definitely didn't "circle the field." Actually, save the situation of position, he gave him an OK ride, saving ground and splitting horses. Frankly, I think the biggest crime in watching that video is cutting to a useless head-on angle mid-race. We will never know what took place during that period.

People tend to exaggerate trips and trouble. This horse isn't fast enough to keep up with the leader. He also might not have loved being inside of horses. Blaming Leon, and claiming he did something "criminal" is ridiculous, and that's being nice. Irad Ortiz might have finished second on him today. I don't see a scenario where he would have won.

Must you ruin the fun geez

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