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-   -   Pace Handicappers: Do You Use Energy Distribution? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171925)

Dave Schwartz 10-23-2022 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranchwest (Post 2836905)
In what sense? I rely heavily on %Median. Maybe not in the same way as others see it.


Like you, BJ, I have never gotten it to work for me.

But his stuff is different.
Completely different application.

I've seen some of Ranch's work.
His concepts are very solid.

ranchwest 10-24-2022 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe (Post 2836926)
Would you like to take a race and explain?

Race 1 Parx, 10/24/22 (today)

A field of early energy horses (fairly high %M) going 5.5f, a dash. Should be a normal pace race. All of the horses have a similar early energy.

#4 shows to be the early pace horse, gets the lead. #1 shows to have early foot and class, breaks a little off, moves up and runs down the 4.

Nothing special about this race, but that's what the %M told me... nothing special to be concerned about, handicap it normally.

ranchwest 10-24-2022 04:47 PM

It's when there's a field of low %M horses that I get more creative in my handicapping.

BroadwayJoe 10-24-2022 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranchwest (Post 2837051)
Race 1 Parx, 10/24/22 (today)

A field of early energy horses (fairly high %M) going 5.5f, a dash. Should be a normal pace race. All of the horses have a similar early energy.

#4 shows to be the early pace horse, gets the lead. #1 shows to have early foot and class, breaks a little off, moves up and runs down the 4.

Nothing special about this race, but that's what the %M told me... nothing special to be concerned about, handicap it normally.

thxs


Your first sentence says "fairly high %M at 5.5"

How do you know that?

ranchwest 10-24-2022 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe (Post 2837082)
thxs


Your first sentence says "fairly high %M at 5.5"

How do you know that?

That may not have been as clear as it should have been. I didn't mean their history at 5.5. I meant that they were going 5.5 today.

BroadwayJoe 10-24-2022 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranchwest (Post 2837091)
That may not have been as clear as it should have been. I didn't mean their history at 5.5. I meant that they were going 5.5 today.

it sounds like your going off the top of your head with no real rules...

correct?

ranchwest 10-24-2022 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe (Post 2837094)
it sounds like your going off the top of your head with no real rules...

correct?

Incorrect. I take the %M of all prior races and take the median of those. I divide those into 6 levels of early to late. I then take the median value for those 6 levels. If it leans late (on dirt) for the field, I get creative.

BroadwayJoe 10-24-2022 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranchwest (Post 2837103)
Incorrect. I take the %M of all prior races and take the median of those. I divide those into 6 levels of early to late. I then take the median value for those 6 levels. If it leans late (on dirt) for the field, I get creative.

thx....got it

classhandicapper 10-25-2022 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJC922 (Post 2836871)
I think you're talking about handicapping today's race and I'm talking about assessing the impact of energy distribution in a previous race. In theory if I'm carrying forward more accurate data from previously rated races as inputs to today's handicapping process then I'm setting myself up for success against those who aren't.

That's what I'm interested in also. I'm trying to measure the past more accurately.

The complexity for me is that each horse is different in terms of how it reacts to various pace and flow conditions even when the running styles are the same. IMO, all the formulas and handicapping dictums are wrong some of the time other than if we are talking about the "average" horse.

So the trick to getting value is not being on the same page as everyone else. It's understanding where all the commonly held views are wrong for some individual horse.

crestridge 10-12-2023 07:55 PM

Many years ago when I first started to use Sartin software, all I had was Phase III, and I only played Hollywood, Santa Anita, and 8.5 furlong races. I labored hard to enter all pacelines with 8.5 f, dirt races on each entrant. I also made a model of each trach's m% energy, all winners at these tracks, at 8.5 f dirt. I would locate the paceline that most "fit" the entrants "normal" flow of success. Then was able to eliminate those entrants, not fitting %m energy requirements for a particular race. Usually I was able to "pin" it down to 2-3 entrants. It was surprising, because many times the favorite was eliminated.

I had more success, at Hollywood, but good success at Santa Anita. For some reason unknown to me, Del Mar didn't work, probably because I didn't have enough races to model, but never figured it out.

I stopped doing this procedure, very time consuming, putting manually all the pacelines in, and for some reason, I can't remember, I lost interest. But for awhile it was amazing!!

Tom 10-12-2023 08:05 PM

Nowadays, I can't handicap without 5 Hour Energy.


Berry.

crestridge 10-12-2023 08:10 PM

With Phase III, you need "6"!!!


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