Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board


Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Racing Discussion (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   Keeneland caves and lowers takeout. Does the right thing. (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143200)

Andy Asaro 02-07-2018 10:10 AM

Keeneland caves and lowers takeout. Does the right thing.
 


Andy Asaro 02-07-2018 10:15 AM

And a tip of the cap to EVERYONE who participated in the boycott and made enough noise to make this happen.

And a tip of the cap to Jeff Platt and HANA. Without them putting out the press release (that news outlets must cover) this takeout reduction may not have happened.

Sometimes a big kick in the balls works. We ought to do more of that IMO.

Boom!

Andy Asaro 02-07-2018 10:23 AM


Andy Asaro 02-07-2018 11:36 AM

I see that on social media some people aren't too thrilled with the takeout reduction because they didn't rescind all of the takeout hikes.

It's pretty simple

We didn't knock handle down enough to force all of the changes we wanted. If handle were down 20% or more then they may have rescinded all of the takeout hikes.

Bottom line is that way too many people didn't care about the take hike in the first place or handle would have been down a lot more.

JustRalph 02-07-2018 11:52 AM

A track responded within a reasonable time to a customer driven movement.

This is a historic moment.........

cj 02-07-2018 12:09 PM

Still irks me a bit they didn't totally cave on exactas.

Jeff P 02-07-2018 01:02 PM

Imo, doubles should be the same as exacta.


-jp

.

AltonKelsey 02-07-2018 01:22 PM

Hmmmmm, maybe players do have some power after all. Glad to have done my part, in various outlets.

Think of what could be done if pressure were brought to bear on takeout in general.

AltonKelsey 02-07-2018 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff P (Post 2273299)
Imo, doubles should be the same as exacta.


-jp

.

It should, but they consider that you are potentially (if alive) getting two races of action and they are losing churn.

Jeff P 02-07-2018 01:24 PM

I was on the phone with them yesterday (ahead of this morning's announcement.)

One of the things they mentioned was Bill Nader's presentation at the AZ Symposium where Nader had suggested the industry had lost its way a bit by forgetting about churn. (And that multi-race bets have a tendency to keep money tied up which reduces churn.)

-jp

.

GMB@BP 02-07-2018 02:35 PM

I will be betting Kee Win and Exacta's this spring.

Welcome back Keeneland!

JohnGalt1 02-07-2018 02:41 PM

I boycotted the whole fall meet.

Looking forward to betting Keeneland again.

AstrosFan 02-07-2018 04:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff P (Post 2273314)
I was on the phone with them yesterday (ahead of this morning's announcement.)

One of the things they mentioned was Bill Nader's presentation at the AZ Symposium where Nader had suggested the industry had lost its way a bit by forgetting about churn. (And that multi-race bets have a tendency to keep money tied up which reduces churn.)

-jp

.

That is grossly incorrect regarding what Nader "thinks"


Simulcasting is what killed live on track handles and in turn created greed to raise takeout!

No one NEEDS to go to the track anymore to place a bet, unless you are in Texas or AZ, so all ADW operations make a mint due to the current scale of what they get and their low overhead vs the track and all their operating expenses.

A great example is the poorly ran Penn Gaming tracks:

Charles Town Races: they handled "live"

$96.7 million in 2002
$23.8 million in 2016

Total C. Town handle is down $55 million from 2002 to 2016

The state of WV is down $330 million in bets (including greyhounds) from 2002 to 2016

On page three you can see the "state's share" tank from 1978 to 2016 according to the WV racing commission reports.

The industry did it to themselves

Afleet 02-07-2018 06:47 PM

some good news, but I'm still a trifecta player first! I will be betting KEE again:headbanger: Thanks to the other boycotters out there and HANA. Those that didn't help-you are welcome!

Jeff P 02-07-2018 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstrosFan (Post 2273367)
That is grossly incorrect regarding what Nader "thinks"...

Rightly or wrongly the presentation by Bill Nader at the Symposium in AZ this past December (mentioned in the article below) is one of the many things we were talking about on the phone yesterday...

By Matt Hegarty
12/05/2017 3:25PM
Symposium panel urges lower takeouts:
http://www.drf.com/news/symposium-pa...lower-takeouts

--this:
Quote:

"It has to start with the industry leaders," said Bill Nader, a former chief operating officer of the New York Racing Association who was also the executive director of racing at the Hong Kong Jockey Club for eight years, ending in 2016. "And they have to make a big leap. This will not work in isolation."

In a larger context, the comments from the panelists could be viewed as an unusually sharp rebuke to Keeneland, the central Kentucky racetrack that drew widespread criticism from the horseplaying community earlier this year when it raised the takeout rates for its bets for the fall meet. All three panelists cited the Keeneland decision while making their remarks, with several taking particular issue with Keeneland’s justification of needing more revenue from wagering to boost purses.
--and this:
Quote:

To optimize the impacts of churn, Gramm and the other two advocates for lower takeout rates said that racetracks needed to prioritize single-race bets such as win, place, show, exacta, and trifecta for the takeout reductions. They also claimed that lowering or maintaining low takeout rates for multi-race wagers like the pick 4 and pick 5, along with jackpot-style bets that only pay out if there is a single winner, is counter-productive, contradicting a handful of recent decisions by racetracks. (Keeneland raised all of its takeout rates with the exception of the pick 5, which it lowered.)
Imo, racing faces many different issues/challenges.

Imo, empty grandstands are certainly one of those challenges.

But so is ever higher takeout.

And promotion of new jackpot wagers at insanely high net effective takeout rates that result in ever smaller churn.

And odds that change after the bell.

And drugs.

And regulators who are afraid to hand out penalties with teeth.

And horses that barely make six starts per year (when they used to make ten to twelve.)

Imo - all of the above (and more) lead to empty grandstands. And ever shrinking handle numbers.

We have to start somewhere. :)


-jp

.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.