Sorry, I'm just not inclined to share a lot of info with some anonymous person on the internet. Crazy I know but that's just me. I gave the answers I wanted to give.

Obviously you missed my point about the pricing. It isn't just a special rate. It is a bargain basement rate. There is a difference. I didn't realize I had to spell it out for you.

Moving on.

About distances and inaccurate timing have been issues for speed handicappers for as long as I can remember. The failure of tracks to correct the problems is a mystery. I put forward a theory as to why, and if you can enlighten every one as to the answere, I would love to here it. Or if you want, explain it to me over a game of poker. I can tell you before hand that the deck will have "about" 52 cards in it. And that, my friend, is slightly more that the deck you are dealing with.

You really should try to keep up. Some tracks run about distances out of necessity. That isn't what is happening at Gulfstream, and in fact it isn't even true. The times given for the races are for exactly 7.5f races. They are misrepresenting the distance of the races and they are misrepresenting the run up. Neither of these things should be mysterious, be it 1955 or 2018.

Bad analogy. The San Juan is a once a year race on a unique course. It really, honestly doesn't matter if cj gets an accurate figure for it.

Quite a bit different than mucking around with a common distance.

Just what I expected. Their pools never made sense to me, I often thought how could they generate pools of $800-$900k when they ran their crappy $20-30k claimer races and Belmont could only get about $500k when they ran graded stake races?

They let their big bettors feed on little guys and that's what RITVO said.

Forget about Gulfstream - the fastest horse in the world just ran a :19 opening quarter at Tampa! :eek:

Ran so fast the camera could not keep up.:lol:

I call BS on you. The rates for the rebate shops are already bargain basement, and every track has those, but here you are, making up nonsense again, this time about "fake handle."

The handle is the handle, and if they want to give their signal away for free every day, all day, to everyone, it's still the handle. And frankly, none of your business as far as it making sense to their business.

Whatever dude. You're wrong. And none of my business? :lol::lol::lol: I've never made up anything. I have no history of that and you pretending I do is bullshit.

Keep on being anonymous Gulfstream employee. Say hi to PJ for me. Tell him to shoot for the moon and make the Pegasus a billion dollar race next year. If you're going to lie, make it a big one!

What's the rate, CJ? Let's see how much lower it is than CA and the rebate shops.

Oh, and now you're giving me an infraction for challenging you? lol. Just shows your true colors.

And now another infraction for posting about you giving me an infraction.

What a child. Why don't you answer the question. What's the rate, CJ?

Nope, was for insulting me.as I made clear in the message. The second for doing the same via PM.

I owe you nothing, particularly when you act like a fool.

My insult was "I call BS." So tell me, CJ, do you give demerits to everyone who says similar here, or just when someone challenges you and ticks you off?

You say you don't allow unverified info here. I've seen you reprimand people and delete posts. Yet you posted unverified info, then refused to give any sort of verification when asked. Did you give yourself any demerits or delete your own post?

You won't answer a very simple question to explain more about what you mean by "fake handle" and some group of players getting a "bargain basement discount." How so? Through a rebate shop, which all tracks bargain with? Is it lower than the rebate shops? If so, what is it? And why do you call GP's handle "fake" when all would be fake except for CA since they all give bargain basement rates to the rebate shops?

Maybe other people give you demerits also.

Thanks for giving me demerits although I did not give you any. I was just stating a fact.

Who are you talking to?

The demerits I'm talking about are the "official" demerits that come in our mailboxes from CJ that count towards banning a person from the site.

I'm not talking about the ranking thing over there by our names, and I didn't give you any "demerit" over there.

I was referring to the idiot who did.

That wasn't the insult. You said I'm lying again, implying not only that I am here and have before. That isn't true and was uncalled for in my opinion. I've been on this board a long time and have never been accused of making stuff up.

I answered your questions the first time. I guess they weren't good enough for you. Too bad, it is all I'm going to say. But you just go on and on and on. I'm under no obligation to answer an anonymous internet poster. If PA thinks I posted something out of line, he'll tell me and that is fine. You? No chance.

I would have given you a "demerit" also. cj doesn't make shit up. And everyone knows who he is, so why in the world WOULD he make things up?

That WAS an idiotic move on your part. Something anonymous posters are want to do...

Oh, put a sock in it. And remember you, Mr. PA, called me idiotic.

He most certainly DID make up or lie or whatever one wants to call it when he says it's a "fake" handle. It isn't "fake" handle to take rebate shop handle or otherwise give a discounted signal. It also isn't "fake" handle if Stronach has set up his own rebate shop to undercut CD's and other rebate shops. If CJ wants to demonstrate how it's "fake" then he could do so, but instead leaves an unverified and frankly illogical claim out there, something you don't allow of others.

Sorry, my bad. It's "wont to do" not want to do...:lol:

Surprised some of the know it alls on here were slow to call me out on that one.

Fager, this is purely a matter of characterization. There's nothing wrong with arguing that additional handle obtained by hook or by crook isn't fake. CJ disagrees with that opinion. Neither opinion is a "lie".

Well this made for an interesting read on a snowy morning here in the northeast.

"Fake" or "inflated", $2 wagered on a race is still $2 wagered on a race and at its most basic level, handle.

Top line its all the same, bottom line is a different story.

A discussion of margins would be more fruitful, but that information is not exactly readily available. A comparison of net revenue margins on handle across race tracks/companies and their respective "blend" would shine some light on things. Not all rebates are created equal and a lot depends on their client mix.

If additional handle does not contribute to purses paid to horsemen than it's "phoney." GP was able to dramatically increase its handle , yet its purse structure has not increased much; therefore, its either bogus or Stronach interests are somehow able to befool horsemen.

The only statistic I care about is how much do I get paid.

Any idea of what their purse account looks like? I have no idea, but I would imagine they could have been in an overpayment situation prior to the increase in hande.

Are they running more races compared to before? Stakes boosted? The purse money is going to purses, how it is distributed I dont know since I do not follow Florida.

Comparing handle to how the purse money is distributed is a bit much. Handle is a wager. If it is a person, robot, or my dog Charlie on his Ipad placing the bet, it doesnt matter. Trying to say it is phoney or fake because the margins are low or you dont see where the purse money is a little off.

Maybe a little off, but it was to make a point. It was stated Gulfstream is up more than everyone else is so bettors must not care about their shenanigans. Like most blanket statements in racing, this doesn't tell the whole story. If other tracks were using the same pricing model as Gulfstream, I'm sure their handle would be up as well. But there bottom line would not be. If pushed to the extreme, a track could take bets and knowingly LOSE money on the bets and still report this is handle.

So my point was saying handle is up, or good, by itself doesn't mean much at all. That is why I said it is phony or fake or whatever word I used. Just like the purse of the Pegasus is fake. You have to dig a little deeper than just reading press releases. I'm not sure why people are anxious to defend a track that is currently outright lying about the distance of its races, but whatever. That is horseplayers for you.

Has anybody come across a head-on replay of the jockey falling and costing someone the Rainbow 6.

I still would like to see what made the horse veer ever so sharply. He'd already been struck several times before without reacting.

The Rainbow is now over 1.1 million.

There's something more to this story and I think Gulf is hiding it by not showing the complete head-on replay to the public.

But, maybe that's just me thinking that.

I've seen it. It was the whip. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, but in this case there's nothing here unless you think the horse was also in on it.

We had a guy at our track yesterday play all/all/all/all/all/all in the Rainbow. Think it was 14,800. Tough day at the track when you hit the P6 and lose 10k.

I don't know CJ the horse isn't talking I assume he has lawyered up..

Was the whip and then a bad step by the horse. I had the eventual winner so I was 'happy' (once I heard there were no injuries involved). But you can see clearly the horse takes a strange step to the side. At that speed, the jockey gets thrown - he is not expecting that and it is too fast/sudden to compensate. Have also seen it before.

A jockey would never purposefully fall off with a dozen horses coming behind him...might mean he dies (kick to the head etc which has happened).

Sometimes i think we forget they are horses not machines.

No jock would jump off like that. I wasn't trying to imply he did.
I was just wondering if something else spooked the horse.
Thanks.

He was actually lucky to be so far ahead when he fell. The others may have had a little more time to react. (Though he still did hurt.)

Not like what happened to Mike Venezia. He went off right in front of and next to Robbie's horse and there was no chance to avoid him.
I was watching with my binoculars from the 2nd floor of the grandstand and can still see it now in my mind.

He actually tried to stay on by holding onto the horse's neck. 30 years ago a Northern California jockey named Nate Hubbard won a race by doing that.

For some reason I still remember the names of the two horses involved in that: Drums in the Night and Mister Walter K.

The reaction the whip was immediate. Whether the sudden move caused the rider to lose it or the horse also took a bad step I'm not sure.

Knowing the way the RB6 is designed to pay, you gotta figure more often than not an "all" bet isn't going to get it done.