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-   -   Below, a video message from the TIF's Wagering & Integrity Issues Steering Committee. (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161911)

Andy Asaro 12-03-2020 11:14 AM

Below, a video message from the TIF's Wagering & Integrity Issues Steering Committee.
 

Dave Schwartz 12-03-2020 01:28 PM

Excellent.

How about we start with CHEATERS WHO GET CAUGHT WILL START WITH A 5-YEAR BAN?

What? The industry couldn't do that because some stars will disappear?

Don't worry. We'll make more.

And with a policy like that in place, little by little the game will get real integrity.

The_Turf_Monster 12-03-2020 03:50 PM

When he was going through his ‘we want’ rant, there should have been a 'we want to throw another useless acronym into the alphabet soup that is American horse racing’

2:1 is going to pay 2:1 regardless if takeout is 0% vs 99%. I’m sorry that you make bad bets and can’t beat the mutuel pools.

I’m still waiting for an acknowledgment from one of these organizations that the purpose of takeout is to maximize the amount taken from a pool without seeing diminishing returns. Reducing takeout isn’t going to change the price of a horse going off at 2:1, it’s going to have the effect of negatively impacting racing’s invested customers

Dave Schwartz 12-03-2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster (Post 2680962)
When he was going through his ‘we want’ rant, there should have been a 'we want to throw another useless acronym into the alphabet soup that is American horse racing’

2:1 is going to pay 2:1 regardless if takeout is 0% vs 99%. I’m sorry that you make bad bets and can’t beat the mutuel pools.

I’m still waiting for an acknowledgment from one of these organizations that the purpose of takeout is to maximize the amount taken from a pool without seeing diminishing returns. Reducing takeout isn’t going to change the price of a horse going off at 2:1, it’s going to have the effect of negatively impacting racing’s invested customers

So, therefore, if the takeout was (say) 60% the game would still be fine?

Wouldn't make any difference at all?

Game would still be exactly the same in terms of difficulty to beat?

And, were the takeout reduced to (say) 2%, it would not make the game easier to beat?

ronsmac 12-03-2020 04:04 PM

Takeout or larger rebates is my number one issue, field size is 2nd. I can actually adjust for the drug cheates.

The_Turf_Monster 12-03-2020 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz (Post 2680977)
So, therefore, if the takeout was (say) 60% the game would still be fine?

Wouldn't make any difference at all?

Game would still be exactly the same in terms of difficulty to beat?

And, were the takeout reduced to (say) 2%, it would not make the game easier to beat?

60% would be in the area of diminishing returns, but I defer to those that make money off those pools to decide what the optimal takeout is and with 10,000 races run a year across a myriad of markets at all hours of the day, we don’t even have to take a random sample to perform the BTL and ATL testing though I think that Canterbury demonstrated via its below the line test a few years ago that lowering takeout hurt the customers it depends on to actually put on the show. That should have been enough to put an end to whiny customers and takeout, maybe they’re hoping that time forgot that Canterbury’s handle didn’t show enough of a gain to justify lowering takeout

If we reduced takeout to 2%, the odds on the lower priced horses would stay the same and where you would see a variation is is on each side of the inverse belle curve when a 60:1 hits the board that used to be 55:1 because we are all guessing on the likelihood (underlay vs overlay) of a horse like that winning. They also, as has been demonstrated for over a century (forgive me if I can’t remember what year it was when the guy in Pittsburgh created past performances), are the least likely to win meaning that lowering the takeout would have the following effects:

- Reduce purse accounts
- Reduce wagering opportunities as owners need to run at a purse level to rationalize the cost of the horse
- Reduce purchase prices of bloodstock due to the first two points
- Not put a single extra cent in the overwhelming majority of bettors’ pockets

So, if you want to have less owners, less trainers, less racing opportunities, less breeding programs, etc., jump on board the alphabet soup train with the conductor that can’t even be bothered to comb his hair let alone articulate anything that I just did

thaskalos 12-03-2020 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster (Post 2680962)
When he was going through his ‘we want’ rant, there should have been a 'we want to throw another useless acronym into the alphabet soup that is American horse racing’

2:1 is going to pay 2:1 regardless if takeout is 0% vs 99%. I’m sorry that you make bad bets and can’t beat the mutuel pools.

I’m still waiting for an acknowledgment from one of these organizations that the purpose of takeout is to maximize the amount taken from a pool without seeing diminishing returns. Reducing takeout isn’t going to change the price of a horse going off at 2:1, it’s going to have the effect of negatively impacting racing’s invested customers

Can YOU beat the current mutuel pools? And if you can't, then...how do you know that the onerous takeout isn't what's preventing you from doing so?

porchy44 12-03-2020 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Turf_Monster (Post 2680962)
2:1 is going to pay 2:1 regardless if takeout is 0% vs 99%. I’m sorry that you make bad bets and can’t beat the mutuel pools.

Not sure if your using hyperbole or just bad at math.

That's like saying if the Federal Govt tax rate is 0% or 99%, a $100 check is still going to be a $100 check !

The_Turf_Monster 12-04-2020 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porchy44 (Post 2681134)
Not sure if your using hyperbole or just bad at math.

That's like saying if the Federal Govt tax rate is 0% or 99%, a $100 check is still going to be a $100 check !

$100 is $100

But that’s not what we are getting at here. If a favorite has an efficient rate of 2:1, that’s what it’s going to be bet to unless you’re betting into an inefficient pool at some state fair meet with a WPS pool of $10k. Your smart players (where the bulk of the money comes in from) aren’t going to bet it down to 9:5 because the takeout is lower and they certainly won’t pay more than 2:1 due to a lower takeout

If bettors wanted prices to rise, they’d advocate to get ADWs out of the game. They’re creating a channel for a select group of players to bet at underlay prices that get them to an efficient price via the rebate

In reference to whether I beat the mutuel prices, yes, but I’m selective on what I bet. That doesn’t mean that I don’t bet, that means I’ll sit a race or 20 out if I don’t find a legitimate overlay. I won’t cry about a steward’s decision and most importantly, I will hit an overlay hard enough at a distance and surface that I know produces for me. I’ve spent weekends at AP waiting for the overlay I’m looking for, I guess that’s a comment on the role racing secretaries across the country play in producing prices. The only state imo that consistently produces overlays in the country is the Maryland Jockey Club, and that’s only because most bettors don’t read the race description to see how a higher class horse can be entered. It’s also because there aren’t too many of us that can translate video images into unstructured data into a PP with accurate run ups, fractions, and then build machine learning algorithms on top of it

PaceAdvantage 12-04-2020 03:39 AM

Tweet doesn't exist anymore?

Andy Asaro 12-04-2020 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage (Post 2681171)
Tweet doesn't exist anymore?

Looking into it. Have a feeling industry politics has something to do with it. Hope I'm wrong

Andy Asaro 12-04-2020 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro (Post 2681190)
Looking into it. Have a feeling industry politics has something to do with it. Hope I'm wrong

I was right. Video going back up after Bill passes I'm told.

Andy Asaro 12-06-2020 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro (Post 2680826)



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