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-   -   Did Restoring Hope help Justify tactically in the Belmont...? (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145374)

VigorsTheGrey 06-10-2018 01:10 AM

Did Restoring Hope help Justify tactically in the Belmont...?
 
Shortly before the Belmont Stakes was run...my track buddies and I discussed what pace roles Restoring Hope and Noble Indy would play out...I suggested that Restoring Hope would be used tactically to block other horses trying to challenge the lead of Justify, by gatekeeping the 2,3, and 4 path near the front, and that Noble Indy would not likely challenge Justify up front...
...My friends scoffed, and asked me if Baffert really needs such tactics in order for a Justify victory?

Still I wondered why Restoring Hope was in the race...as it turned out, Restoring Hope did exactly that, weaving out and in, before just plain dropping out of it like an impediment anchor in the way of other horses coming on late...if you read the race charts, thatís just how it played out...while Noble Indy ran a hugely uninteresting tactical race and finished dismally, last in fact...from my point of view, it appears these horses were never intended to disrupt the making of history by Justify...any thoughts?

jay68802 06-10-2018 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay68802 (Post 2326285)
So far all the talk has been about the "other" Pletcher horse. The one horse I see no reason for being in the race happens to be the "other" Baffert horse. Maybe Restoring Hope is in here to counter Noble Indy. Their pace ratings are very close. He is drawn inside of NI, so he just goes out and stays inside of NI, maybe even keeping him wide through the first turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2327434)
Shortly before the Belmont Stakes was run...my track buddies and I discussed what pace roles Restoring Hope and Noble Indy would play out...I suggested that Restoring Hope would be used tactically to block other horses trying to challenge the lead of Justify, by gatekeeping the 2,3, and 4 path near the front, and that Noble Indy would not likely challenge Justify up front...
...My friends scoffed, and asked me if Baffert really needs such tactics in order for a Justify victory?

Still I wondered why Restoring Hope was in the race...as it turned out, Restoring Hope did exactly that, weaving out and in, before just plain dropping out of it like an impediment anchor in the way of other horses coming on late...if you read the race charts, thatís just how it played out...while Noble Indy ran a hugely uninteresting tactical race and finished dismally, last in fact...from my point of view, it appears these horses were never intended to disrupt the making of history by Justify...any thoughts?

:D

JustRalph 06-10-2018 01:24 AM

Nobody got a chance to change history. Mikey went out like a shot and won the race old school.

It was a great performance all things considered and nobody had the talent to interfere or challenge. Iím glad that GhostZapper has his name in the pedigree that will be examined throughout history.

Justify reminded me of him just a little today.......

TiffaniO 06-10-2018 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey (Post 2327434)
Shortly before the Belmont Stakes was run...my track buddies and I discussed what pace roles Restoring Hope and Noble Indy would play out...I suggested that Restoring Hope would be used tactically to block other horses trying to challenge the lead of Justify, by gatekeeping the 2,3, and 4 path near the front, and that Noble Indy would not likely challenge Justify up front...
...My friends scoffed, and asked me if Baffert really needs such tactics in order for a Justify victory?

Still I wondered why Restoring Hope was in the race...as it turned out, Restoring Hope did exactly that, weaving out and in, before just plain dropping out of it like an impediment anchor in the way of other horses coming on late...if you read the race charts, thatís just how it played out...while Noble Indy ran a hugely uninteresting tactical race and finished dismally, last in fact...from my point of view, it appears these horses were never intended to disrupt the making of history by Justify...any thoughts?

I wish Restoring Hope wouldnít have been in the race. FloGo taking him to the hot dog stand on the first turn is a bad look.

GMB@BP 06-10-2018 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiffaniO (Post 2327445)
I wish Restoring Hope wouldnít have been in the race. FloGo taking him to the hot dog stand on the first turn is a bad look.

agree, and Noble Indy didnt have enough out of the gate to do much anyways.

Didnt change anything, just not a good look.

Of course the whole coupling issue was in play with two sets of connections in this field.

TiffaniO 06-10-2018 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB@BP (Post 2327448)
agree, and Noble Indy didnt have enough out of the gate to do much anyways.

Didnt change anything, just not a good look.

Of course the whole coupling issue was in play with two sets of connections in this field.

Coupled or uncoupled wouldnít help in this situation, because we all know who was the horse most well intended...

And yes it didnít change a thing but just a bad bad bad look.

VigorsTheGrey 06-10-2018 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiffaniO (Post 2327454)
Coupled or uncoupled wouldn’t help in this situation, because we all know who was the horse most well intended...

And yes it didn’t change a thing but just a bad bad bad look.

Just a tad more than a bad look...sorry to say...watch the head-on replay at NYRA website...Down the stretch Javy and Florent are having their own little conversation while the race is still running...It looks like they are looking toward the infield at maybe a big screen or something...from the looks of it, they did their job...Hope and Indy herded the field behind Justify and kept the lid on tight until the top of the lane, when both just folded...but it sure does look that way...if you take the time to look...One can only wonder what they were discussing before the race was even over...

PaceAdvantage 06-10-2018 03:55 AM

So that's who Mike Smith was yelling "YOU DA MAN" and "THANK YOU" to on the backstretch after the pull-up...his minions who helped him win the race, right guys (and gal)?

Is every race fixed? Just curious...

Reggae 06-10-2018 07:01 AM

He boxed Bravazo into the rail behind Justify until the last half mile. When Vino Rosso moved up to second Restoring Hope dropped out and was no longer needed. Bravazo couldn't see daylight until the end of the final turn and by that point he had run Baffert's race so long he had no chance. Restoring Hope unquestionably helped Justify.

Hambletonian 06-10-2018 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae (Post 2327491)
He boxed Bravazo into the rail behind Justify until the last half mile. When Vino Rosso moved up to second Restoring Hope dropped out and was no longer needed. Bravazo couldn't see daylight until the end of the final turn and by that point he had run Baffert's race so long he had no chance. Restoring Hope unquestionably helped Justify.

Going around the clubhouse turn, jock on Restoring Hope tugged the left rein to keep Bravazo pinned down inside Not sure that it made a difference, but it was pretty obvious they did not want a repeat of the Preakness where one entrant took it to Justify. So whether it did make a difference or not, it was pretty obvious that it was intentional.

BlueChip@DRF 06-10-2018 08:07 AM

So, is Justify a good horse or did he beat the best of a bad crop? Maybe the BC can answer that.

LemonSoupKid 06-10-2018 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueChip@DRF (Post 2327497)
So, is Justify a good horse or did he beat the best of a bad crop? Maybe the BC can answer that.

Great question.

I got burned by going against him a bit, but didn't have an overall bad day, and it was memorable (the Spring Quality - Sadler's Joy exacta didn't hurt :p).

It was the case that very few shooters really tried very hard, but he did something that I thought would be a little tougher for him in that spot. All of us who went against him were going for the fatigue and others rested angle, and he just did what he wanted. VR and Hofburg did exactly what we thought they would, really, tease the wise guys in us and ultimately, come up short. Gronkowski provided another mindless name or number bet for the masses ...

PaceMasterT 06-10-2018 10:41 AM

It sure wasn't a good look because he didn't get a ride like he was in there to get a "piece of it". I don't think you could have planned it any better. Come down on Hofburg then crazily shoot the gap outward between the 4 horses that broke better than you impeding Tenfold and then Noble Indy (not much, but both had to alter course and both were even with Justify until Restoring Hope shot up and through). Then, box in the one presser that got good position and settled behind Justify so that he became a victim of Justify slowing down the pace (23.37 24.74 25.10) without being able to move out and push the issue. When it was happening, I was thinking "what is this horse racing or hockey?"
That being said I don't know if it really mattered because none of these horses wanted anything to do with going out early with Justify and they all were pretty much able to settle into their comfortable positions. Bravazo was in position to go on with Justify and had used that style a couple times before, but Luis Saez elected to rate just behind Justify and not try to stay on his outside.

ZippyChippy423 06-10-2018 10:55 AM

Bravazo got a dream trip on the rail running 3rd most of the race and heís a closer! What the heck happened with him? Anyone in horse racing knows if a closer is placed in the second or third tier early on they usually blow away the fields. I would have expected nothing less then second from him.

GMB@BP 06-10-2018 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZippyChippy423 (Post 2327510)
Bravazo got a dream trip on the rail running 3rd most of the race and he’s a closer! What the heck happened with him? Anyone in horse racing knows if a closer is placed in the second or third tier early on they usually blow away the fields. I would have expected nothing less then second from him.

I don't think Bravazo is a closer in away real way, he was a couple lengths behind Justify and Good Magic down the backstretch in the Preakness and when the top two opened up in their duel of champions into the far turn he lost position, and then closed late, a dream scenario that was not likely to be repeated. His Risen Star he was right with the pace.


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