Maryland Racing

[VeryOldMan]

Anyone else see this column by Andrew Beyer:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/maryland-racing-hit-the-jackpot-now-its-time-to-share-some-with-bettors/2012/12/17/159ff45c-4878-11e2-820e-17eefac2f939_story_1.html

Is there any possibility that the slots revenue is a good thing in a state that has a horse racing tradition but previously lost out on the bloated slots purses to WV, DE and PA? I'd love for Maryland racing to take off, but as a Maryland taxpayer I'm not sure the slots revenue should go to racing given the declining nature of the sport. Would love to hear from some fellow horse players who can bring objective opinions to this.

[Track Collector]

Hello VeryOldMan,

Fellow Marylander here.

I've never considered it in much detail, but my gut feeling is that the horseracing industry provides a lot more income and to a wider range of support businesses than does a dedicated casino operation. I'm thinking of things like feed, bedding materials, medical supplies and services, fuel to transport the horses to the various race meets, overnight lodging, etc. Not to mention the many different people who provide a variety of services.

If you are concerned that it is a subsidy, consider that municipalities will offer huge tax incentives to woo a business or industry to their area.

The casino business outside of NV and NJ owe a huge thanks to the horseracing industry for helping them to make the inroads they have made today. Racinos helped to prove the popularity, AND that folks found them socially acceptable. Perhaps casinos would have come anyway, but certainly not as quickly as we have them today.

Too bad that even after getting voter approval for expanded gambling, MD legislators fought for years before agreeing on how to roll out the program. They wasted something like 5 years.

[Robert Goren]

The casino used helping out with purses as excuse to get their foot in door of many states. Overall, it has done far more harm than good by stealing a lot of gamblers from horse racing. The slot money might just as well go to the state from the get-go because sooner or later they are going to take it anyway. At best, you are buying a few years with slot-fueled purses. I am not sure where Maryland racing fit as horse racing sorts itself out over the next decade or two. But I am pretty sure it is going to be really hard for a track to survive that has slot-driven purses once that slot money disappears. From what I seen, most racinos are doing every little for horse racing outside of throwing the money that they are required to by law at the purses. JMO

[garyscpa]

I think Louisiana does a pretty good job with it.

[VeryOldMan]

Too bad that even after getting voter approval for expanded gambling, MD legislators fought for years before agreeing on how to roll out the program. They wasted something like 5 years.

Yeah, us Marylanders know that they couldn't have screwed it up any more if they tried. The cherry on top was the Laurel track owner assuming that the skids were greased for slots going in at Laurel and not even bothering to put down the mandated deposit. Ooops - hello Arundel Mills Mall.

Maryland just seems to be in an odd middle ground - its horse racing industry has been surviving although slowly losing altitude without any slots subsidy, so its not like WV horse racing where the track owners get 97% of their revenue from the non horse-racing side (look at MTR Gaming's financial statements) and the racing is an afterthought.

Because the state screwed around with the expanded gambling for so long, I just wonder if the added purses are going to meaningfully expand the industry or just make a handful of owners and breeders wealthier. Just seems like an odd time to sink tax dollars into horse racing; as others have noted, the slots revenue at some point is a target to be re-allocated elsewhere. Given that's likely to be the case, why bother with the subsidy at this point in MD?

Thanks for the discussion guys.

[edmond1]

Slots money did nothing to benefit horse players at Woodbine or Fort Erie. They received ten's of millions of dollars in subsidies and no major takeout reductions occurred. Instead many former long term horse players now hooked on the slots.....

[bitter]

i think MD is on the same path as DE, PA, WV, and others....just 10-15 years late. The casinos will subsidies the tracks for a few years, and what has become the norm, question whether or not that money should continue to go what appears to be a declining state attraction/product. MD should see some nice purse hikes over the next few years with the added money, if they can't draw the handles after that then it's on them, just my opinion.

[raybo]

Putting in slots seems to me to be a better way of prolonging the inevitable than what Texas has legislated, no ADW betting on horse racing, "thinking" that more horse players will attend the track and therefore produce more revenue for the tracks and the state(?) Makes you wonder why we even have a state government anymore, with that kind of thinking going on.

I think Louisiana pretty much got it right, as Garyscpa stated.

[Tom]

If it ever came down to a referendum on what the public would rather have, slots or horses, which do you think would win?

[Robert Goren]

If it ever came down to a referendum on what the public would rather have, slots or horses, which do you think would win?Anybody who thinks the answer is horses should see mental health professional immediately.

[raybo]

If it ever came down to a referendum on what the public would rather have, slots or horses, which do you think would win?

Slots, of course, but that isn't about to happen in Texas. :lol:

Gambling? Oh no, we can't have that in Texas! But, bingo, horse racing, and the lotto/scratch offs are ok? :bang:

[RXB]

Although I'm fundamentally opposed to slots subsidies for horse racing, given their almost ubiquitous nature I'm glad that Maryland is now at no disadvantage vs. the racinos around them. I liked Maryland racing back in the mid-late 90's and thought that Maryland breeders did a good job-- they seemed to produce a lot of tough animals that could handle more racing than horses from most other states. But the last 12-15 years were brutal due in large part to the surrounding racinos. Hopefully things will get better now.

Obviously I agree with Beyer regarding takeout reduction but based on the non-actions in that regard from almost all other racinos, I won't be holding my breath. Can always hope, though.

[VeryOldMan]

Obviously I agree with Beyer regarding takeout reduction but based on the non-actions in that regard from almost all other racinos, I won't be holding my breath. Can always hope, though.

I will be stunned if there is any move to reduce takeout in MD - having watched the slots/horse racing fandango here for many years now, I'm pretty confident that the horse bettors are simply not in the picture. We are the sheep to be sheared. The expanded gambling and the syphoning of gaming revenue to racing purses has been all about "more money for the children" and "saving all the jobs the horse racing industry provides".

[takeout]

They’ve got to get their takeout and taxes down. 21% on exactas and 25.75 on tris is laughable. Another circuit only a whale could love.

[green80]

Slots, of course, but that isn't about to happen in Texas. :lol:

Gambling? Oh no, we can't have that in Texas! But, bingo, horse racing, and the lotto/scratch offs are ok? :bang:

but Texas seems to be doing OK, go to Sam Houston on a fri or Sat night and look at the crowd.

[forced89]

but Texas seems to be doing OK, go to Sam Houston on a fri or Sat night and look at the crowd.

Not if you are an Owner. The purses suck!

[forced89]

I agree that Louisiana has a good thing going. Another under the radar is Arkansas with Oaklawn Park in Hot Springs. Slots supplement purses; slots attract visitors; many visitors attend races primarily on weekends helping produce large crowds.

[cj]

Slots, of course, but that isn't about to happen in Texas. :lol:

Gambling? Oh no, we can't have that in Texas! But, bingo, horse racing, and the lotto/scratch offs are ok? :bang:

but Texas seems to be doing OK, go to Sam Houston on a fri or Sat night and look at the crowd.

Yeah, Remington is the same way. But, nobody bets.