Firemen Shot

[Robert Goren]

Another nut with a gun at work.

http://fox4kc.com/2012/12/24/firefighters-shot-killed-while-battling-new-york-blaze/

WEBSTER, New York — At least two firefighters were shot and killed at the scene of a fire that engulfed multiple houses in upstate New York on Monday, police said.

During a news conference, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said the incident appeared planned.

“It does appear that it was a trap that was set for first responders,” he said

[TJDave]

The NRA is calling for armed guards at all fire stations.

[PaceAdvantage]

In a related story, everyone who gets shot from now until January 17th, 2013, will automatically become front page news...

[nijinski]

Awful , we need to keep these monsters behind bars or just execute . He was a psycho criminal before and now this . Why he was allowed to walk free is the issue here .

God Bless all who lost their lives and who were injured in this crime . Peace and Prayers for the loved ones left behind . :(

[Tom]

The shooter today was a felon.
How'd your gun laws do to keep him unarmed?
He murdered his 92 grandmother with a HAMMER in 1980.

What the HELL was this garbage doing our of prison?
His grandmother is still dead - why should he be freed?

We had a sadistic killer behind bars and for some stupid reason, let him out.

Maybe we should start not with gun control but with KEEPING MURDERS IN JAIL FOREVER! There is no reason to ever let a killer out. None.

Seven houses burned to the ground, two dead, two in the hospital wounded, an off-duty cop who followed the firetrucks to the scene as he was driving nearby wounded by shrapnel but home tonight.

The gunman's sister lived with him and is missing.

The sniping stopped as soon as police arrived - quickly - and opened up on the bastard. The coward hid and killed himself. They did not find him until 11 am, five hours later, which prevented the firemen from saving any of the homes.

33 neighbors evacuated by SWAT, in an armored vehicle for their safety.

One of the dead was honored as Fireman of Year two weeks ago.
He was well known and interviewed multiple time on local media, as recently as a couple of weeks ago, promoting Toys for Tots and other charitable causes for this holiday.

The other was one year on the job. Young guy, just starting out.

The upside - outpouring of prayers and condolences from around the friggin world. Local merchants lining up to take care of everyone affected today.

This same firehouse suffered a fatality last Christmas.

__________________

[cosmo96]

If it's feasible I agree with Wayne Lapierre that there should be armed personell in schools. But, what about public places like malls, sporting events, racetracks, etc. Mr. Lapierre did not mention those places. But, lets put armed guards in schools. But, who is going to pay for it? Be that as it may if one life is saved, fine. Along with that we need better mental health screening. We need to change the culture of violence in America. There are very few gun related deaths in Europe, Canada, Japan, and down under. With all this in mind, what is wrong with banning assault weapons for civillians, and smaller magazines? There is no fix for gun violence. But, if what I mentioned were implemented maybe more than one life would be spared.

[ArlJim78]

according to the NYT's (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/us/nra-calls-for-armed-guards-at-schools.html?_r=0), having armed security at schools is very common.

Nationwide, at least 23,000 schools — about one-third of all public schools — already had armed security on staff as of the most recent data, for the 2009-10 school year, and a number of states and districts that do not use them have begun discussing the idea in recent days .

[racko]

This used to happen all the time at Mother Cabrini in the 70's. The police and fire quit responding. Place was eventualy torn down. MC was in Chicago.

[Robert Goren]

In a related story, everyone who gets shot from now until January 17th, 2013, will automatically become front page news...Probably not, but should be and longer. I don't think a lot of people realise how many people killed with guns. Also I think in fairness to you all the people killed by bombs should be front page news.

[Robert Goren]

The shooter today was a felon.
How'd your gun laws do to keep him unarmed?
He murdered his 92 grandmother with a HAMMER in 1980.

What the HELL was this garbage doing our of prison?
His grandmother is still dead - why should he be freed?

We had a sadistic killer behind bars and for some stupid reason, let him out.

Maybe we should start not with gun control but with KEEPING MURDERS IN JAIL FOREVER! There is no reason to ever let a killer out. None.

Seven houses burned to the ground, two dead, two in the hospital wounded, an off-duty cop who followed the firetrucks to the scene as he was driving nearby wounded by shrapnel but home tonight.

The gunman's sister lived with him and is missing.

The sniping stopped as soon as police arrived - quickly - and opened up on the bastard. The coward hid and killed himself. They did not find him until 11 am, five hours later, which prevented the firemen from saving any of the homes.

33 neighbors evacuated by SWAT, in an armored vehicle for their safety.

One of the dead was honored as Fireman of Year two weeks ago.
He was well known and interviewed multiple time on local media, as recently as a couple of weeks ago, promoting Toys for Tots and other charitable causes for this holiday.

The other was one year on the job. Young guy, just starting out.

The upside - outpouring of prayers and condolences from around the friggin world. Local merchants lining up to take care of everyone affected today.

This same firehouse suffered a fatality last Christmas.

__________________The US is already first in prisioner per capita in the world. And it isn't even close to second.
http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poprate
Prisioners per 100,000

1)United States of America (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=190)730
2)St. Kitts and Nevis (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=67)649
3)Seychelles (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=42)641
4)Virgin Islands (U.S.A.) (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=76)539
5)Rwanda (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=39)527
6)Cuba (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=61)510
7)Russian Federation (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=118)495
8)Georgia (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=122)492
9)Anguilla (United Kingdom) (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=226)480
10)Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) (http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_country.php?country=75)c.460

[soupan]

If it's feasible I agree with Wayne Lapierre that there should be armed personell in schools. But, what about public places like malls, sporting events, racetracks, etc. Mr. Lapierre did not mention those places. But, lets put armed guards in schools. But, who is going to pay for it? Be that as it may if one life is saved, fine. Along with that we need better mental health screening. We need to change the culture of violence in America. There are very few gun related deaths in Europe, Canada, Japan, and down under. With all this in mind, what is wrong with banning assault weapons for civillians, and smaller magazines? There is no fix for gun violence. But, if what I mentioned were implemented maybe more than one life would be spared.

We have an armed security guard in our elementary school here in Florida, one of the few districts that do. But he leaves at 2pm every day (6-2pm) and there is not enough money in the budget to hire more security. Does it deter someone from doing like what was done in Newtown? Almost certainly.
Is it cost effective? No WAY!
Wayne L. is a babbling fool for making a statement about armed guards in every school. And I'm amazed at the right wing hypocrisy who believes in LOWER TAXES AND LESS GOV"T but preach putting armed guards in schools.
Who does Wayne L and his conservative spinsters think will flip the bill for armed trained personel, the tooth fairy?
And don't come back with the nonsense about volunteers, retired police and military doing the job, because that ain't happening.

[Tom]

Does it deter someone from doing like what was done in Newtown? Almost certainly.
Is it cost effective? No WAY!

The alternative is better?

[Robert Goren]

We have an armed security guard in our elementary school here in Florida, one of the few districts that do. But he leaves at 2pm every day (6-2pm) and there is not enough money in the budget to hire more security. Does it deter someone from doing like what was done in Newtown? Almost certainly.
Is it cost effective? No WAY!
Wayne L. is a babbling fool for making a statement about armed guards in every school. And I'm amazed at the right wing hypocrisy who believes in LOWER TAXES AND LESS GOV"T but preach putting armed guards in schools.
Who does Wayne L and his conservative spinsters think will flip the bill for armed trained personel, the tooth fairy?
And don't come back with the nonsense about volunteers, retired police and military doing the job, because that ain't happening.I am not so sure it would have deter the nut in Newtown. I think that the armed guard would have just been the first victim on site. The guard may or may not been able to take the killer, but no way the killer is going to be detered in what he thinks is his mission. Crazy people do not think rationally and aren't scared by a rent-a-cop.

[Tom]

Not true. He stopped short and killed himself as soon as the police sirens were heard.

He was a coward, not a warrior.

[Tom]

News today - shoot left a note. He was going to burn down his neighborhood and kill as many people as he could. By chance, an off duty cop was driving in the area and followed the firetrucks to help out if needed. He immediately fired back and the shooter stopped.
He had a semi automatic rifle, a pump shotgun, and a revolver.

[Tom]

The US is already first in prisioner per capita in the world. And it isn't even close to second.

How many of those are murderers, and sadistic ones who beat a 92 women to death with a hammer?

Do you suppose he might not be at the head of the list of those we should be letting out.

Legalize drugs and see how fast the number drops.

"Who should we let out of here, the hammer guy or the doobie guy?"

[soupan]

I am not so sure it would have deter the nut in Newtown. I think that the armed guard would have just been the first victim on site. The guard may or may not been able to take the killer, but no way the killer is going to be detered in what he thinks is his mission. Crazy people do not think rationally and aren't scared by a rent-a-cop.

Bobby,

I said DETER, not prevent.... but I agree for the most part in what you state.

[soupan]

The alternative is better?

The alternative is better. Stop hiding behind the outdated constitution and be realistic. Start getting the guns out of society.
All the statistics world wide point to the realization of why things are the way they are in the USA. Way too many guns.
The constitutional amendment was instituted so citizens could defend themselves against a Govt assault.
In this day and age, 99% of the population wouldn't stand a chance against a Gov't led military offensive and the well armed and trained other 1% would succumb quickly to a US military strike down.
In this era, even a well armed civilian population is NO MATCH for today's sophisticated, hi-tech soldier, making the second amendment obsolete. The stupidity of rebels and rednecks thinking they could hold their own and survive is ridiculous. We are not in colonial times.

[Tom]

The stupidity of rebels and rednecks thinking they could hold their own and survive is ridiculous. We are not in colonial times.

You have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
What if the power grid goes down, or is taken down? We have already had computer hacks fro China. IT is NOT a ridiculous idea to think that we might well find ourselves without electricity. Or if our computer systems are compromised? No power, no civilization. There will be no cops to call, no one to depend on but yourselves. How long do you think NYC would be civilized without power? A week? Doubtful. When people get hungry and YOU have food.....do the math. Los Angeles....three hours?
If, by chance, that off duty cop had not followed the firemen, who would have stopped him before the other cops arrived? His plan was to kill all of his neighbors. And he did not have an assault rifle.

In any event, there is a legal way to change the constitution. Obviously, you guys have the mandate to get a new one through congress and then a three fourths majority of the states. What are you waiting for?

[soupan]

You have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
What if the power grid goes down, or is taken down? We have already had computer hacks fro China. IT is NOT a ridiculous idea to think that we might well find ourselves without electricity. Or if our computer systems are compromised? No power, no civilization. There will be no cops to call, no one to depend on but yourselves. How long do you think NYC would be civilized without power? A week? Doubtful. When people get hungry and YOU have food.....do the math. Los Angeles....three hours?
If, by chance, that off duty cop had not followed the firemen, who would have stopped him before the other cops arrived? His plan was to kill all of his neighbors. And he did not have an assault rifle.

In any event, there is a legal way to change the constitution. Obviously, you guys have the mandate to get a new one through congress and then a three fourths majority of the states. What are you waiting for?


Wait a minute Rambo, are you taking about a foreign entity shutting us down, or our own Government? Huge difference.
We just went through a period of no power in the largest and most important metropolis on the planet during Sandy. The world didn't end. The flag still flies throughout the country.

If it's a foreign entity, are you suggesting an attack by say, China or another country? With a foreign army on our soil? Not in yours, your kids, their kids and their kids kids lifetime.
If an emergency situation arises, that's the job of our local Gov't. If they can't handle it, state militia and then Federal law enforcement/military.
Nothing like the right wing to overdramatize reality.

[Tom]

Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Rambo?
Yeah, you're on top of it all.

[Tom]

Death toll now 3 - remains found in one of the burnt houses.
Not identified yet, but may be his missing sister.

[soupan]

Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Rambo?
Yeah, you're on top of it all.

You live in some fantasy land.

I just pointed out to you how many areas in NYC were without power for a significant time last month. The last I checked, there was no hysteria. There was no major looting or shootings nor was there a deluge of criminal activity.

So yes, I have no idea what your version of the Mayan calender looks like.
:bang:

[delayjf]

All the statistics world wide point to the realization of why things are the way they are in the USA. Way too many guns.

Wrong, One example, Mexico has stricter gun laws than the US and its the Wild Wild West down there. In Switzerland Soldiers take their automatic weapons home with them and they have a low murder rate. I could go on.

[Tom]

I just pointed out to you how many areas in NYC were without power for a significant time last month.

I get it - you don't have a clue.
You don't have to keep proving it. :lol:

[soupan]

Wrong, One example, Mexico has stricter gun laws than the US and its the Wild Wild West down there. In Switzerland Soldiers take their automatic weapons home with them and they have a low murder rate. I could go on.

Mexico is a poor example. As you know it's a lawless country where the police and politicians are corrupted and controlled by the drug cartels.

Soldiers keeping their weapons compared to easy access to heavy firepower (or a small calibur handgun) is quite different.

We can debate and compare all day and night, but the system we have here in the USA is NOT working and needs drastic change.

[soupan]

I get it - you don't have a clue.
You don't have to keep proving it. :lol:

Instead of explaining your point you act like the obnoxious kid in school who keeps making redundant obnoxious statements in the hope of gaining respect and popularity.
We all know how that works out for them when they reach adulthood.

Some things never change.

[Tom]

You lost all credibility at Hey Rambo.
I try to post to the level of those I am replying to.

I made my point, you missed it.
Some things never change.

[delayjf]

Soldiers keeping their weapons compared to easy access to heavy firepower (or a small calibur handgun) is quite different.

Its your (and the lefts) contention that the reasons for gun violence is simply the presence of guns in America and that stricker gun laws will curb the violence. I just sighted two examples where stricker gun laws did not curb gun violence and availablilty to assault weapons does not lead to mass killings by gunmen armed with those assault weapons.

We've haven't even talked about the crimes detered or stopped by handguns. Here's a recent example that hardly got any press by the liberal media. The resent shooting at an Oregon mall was stopped by a Citizen with a conceal carry permit.

http://www.examiner.com/article/media-blackout-oregon-mall-shooter-was-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen

[Tom]

The shooter, Jacob Tyler Roberts, was confronted with an armed citizen, at which time he ran away and shot himself. By the time police arrived on the scene, Roberts was already dead.

Same story at the school, same story in Webster.
An Inconvenient Truth for the left.

[redshift1]

Woman arrested as authorities backtrack the weapons ownership. Sketchy reports so far with vague implications of illegal gun sales and anecdotal reports from neighbors of unusual traffic in and out of her residence.

.

[Tom]

News conference at 4:00 today with latest developments.

[redshift1]

PDF of the Criminal Complaint, kunckleheads continue to leave paper trails in the digital age, seems they had her name within 30 minutes of processing the firearms. I can imagine the conversation now " hi, i'm the convicted violent felon next door, can you buy some guns for me that are directly traceable to you".


http://www.democratandchronicle.com/assets/pdf/A21986551228.PDF

.

[PaceAdvantage]

Probably not, but should be and longer. I don't think a lot of people realise how many people killed with guns. Also I think in fairness to you all the people killed by bombs should be front page news.And I think exactly the opposite. I think people don't realize how FEW people are killed with guns.

One would think, given the media attention, that GUNS are the biggest killer of people here on planet Earth.

But, as I have already demonstrated, even the lowly automobile and mundane poisoning top guns...

[PaceAdvantage]

The alternative is better. Stop hiding behind the outdated constitution and be realistic. Start getting the guns out of society.
All the statistics world wide point to the realization of why things are the way they are in the USA. Way too many guns.So NOT true.

Taking all the guns away from Soviet/Russian citizens STILL didn't prevent that country from TOPPING the US in terms of MURDER. That's but one example.

[PaceAdvantage]

You live in some fantasy land.

I just pointed out to you how many areas in NYC were without power for a significant time last month. The last I checked, there was no hysteria. There was no major looting or shootings nor was there a deluge of criminal activity.

So yes, I have no idea what your version of the Mayan calender looks like.
:bang:That's because NYC is a civilized area, for the most part.

Now Detroit on the other hand...you merely need a sports team to win (or lose), and there is bedlam in the streets... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

We can debate and compare all day and night, but the system we have here in the USA is NOT working and needs drastic change.Says who? The unwarranted news coverage of each and every shooting that occurs in this country, especially after an isolated horrific event that happens every couple of years?