Sports Betting In NJ Dealt Blow

[usedtolovetvg]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-22/leagues-qualified-to-challenge-new-jersey-betting-law.html

[racingfan378]

Does anyone know how come Delaware got it much more easier (so I think, I dont know) than everyone going after NJ not to have it?

[Al Gobbi]

The topic of sports betting in America will be decided in the supreme court within 5 years.

[therussmeister]

Does anyone know how come Delaware got it much more easier (so I think, I dont know) than everyone going after NJ not to have it?
Because they had a law on the books before the Federal law outlawing it, so they were grandfathered in, as was Nevada, Montana and Oregon.

[Stillriledup]

This could be a blessing in disguise for NJ. By letting the sports leagues have their suit, they keep the feds from getting involved....once Jan 20th passes, the feds are out of the process and its just the sports leagues vs NJ.

[RunForTheRoses]

Because they had a law on the books before the Federal law outlawing it, so they were grandfathered in, as was Nevada, Montana and Oregon.


And even Delaware didn't fully get what they wanted. They wanted to have a full Vegas type Sportsbook, betting on all sports, Straight Bets as well as Parlays. What they were Grandfathered into was only NFL and only parlays (at least 3 teams, does include Teasers though) no Totals, no Straight Bets no other sports.

[Stillriledup]

Bud says betting is BAD.

Betting is a NO NO.

:lol:

http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowlandsmatters/4392/nj-sports-betting-depositions-part-iii-an-antsy-bud-selig-is-appalled/

[Robert Goren]

I feel like saying I told so, but that would gloating. What the Hell, I love to gloat.

I told you so!:D

[Striker]

The topic of sports betting in America will be decided in the supreme court within 5 years.
Thats what most people thought 10 years ago.

[Some_One]

Does anyone know how come Delaware got it much more easier (so I think, I dont know) than everyone going after NJ not to have it?

population and # of sports teams in NJ

[Some_One]

If I was NJ, I would try to make the leagues proof injury has already been caused by the legal wagers in NV and when they can't, I would use this to show that no injury is probable as well in NJ

[castaway01]

Does anyone know how come Delaware got it much more easier (so I think, I dont know) than everyone going after NJ not to have it?

They only have "parlay cards" as well, which isn't exactly going to scare Vegas to death.

[thespaah]

I feel like saying I told so, but that would gloating. What the Hell, I love to gloat.

I told you so!:D
You told us so....WHAT?!!

[thespaah]

If I was NJ, I would try to make the leagues proof injury has already been caused by the legal wagers in NV and when they can't, I would use this to show that no injury is probable as well in NJ
Well that's what they have to prove. That somehow, the legalization of betting on sports in a state other than NV.MY, DE and OR is going to create harm.

[Stillriledup]

If I was NJ, I would try to make the leagues proof injury has already been caused by the legal wagers in NV and when they can't, I would use this to show that no injury is probable as well in NJ

Not only can they prove no injury is expected, but they could probably prove the NFL secretly WANTS sports betting. Monday night football was specifically created to let gamblers have one shot to 'get even' with their bookie after Sunday's losses. Also, injury reports. The only reason they exist is so gamblers can have specific and accurate information on injuries.

The NFL isnt stupid, they know their sport is fueled by betting. They know the Super Bowl gets more bets than any game, they know the 'office pools' that are conducted for the Super Bowl also, they know all about it and yet, somehow, when the Super Bowl is on the horizon, you never hear the NFL saying that they are 'concerned' that people are betting the game and people are engaging in gambling on office pools.

[SandyW]

Control, Control, & more Control, New Jersey has no chance of getting sports betting in this lifetime or the next.

[Robert Goren]

There is no chance as long as the republicans control either the house or the senate. If the democrats control both houses , there a really slim chance, say about 2-3%. In other words, it ain't happening.

[thespaah]

Not only can they prove no injury is expected, but they could probably prove the NFL secretly WANTS sports betting. Monday night football was specifically created to let gamblers have one shot to 'get even' with their bookie after Sunday's losses. Also, injury reports. The only reason they exist is so gamblers can have specific and accurate information on injuries.

The NFL isnt stupid, they know their sport is fueled by betting. They know the Super Bowl gets more bets than any game, they know the 'office pools' that are conducted for the Super Bowl also, they know all about it and yet, somehow, when the Super Bowl is on the horizon, you never hear the NFL saying that they are 'concerned' that people are betting the game and people are engaging in gambling on office pools.
Great post!

[thespaah]

Control, Control, & more Control, New Jersey has no chance of getting sports betting in this lifetime or the next.
The fact that the State legislature has passed the bill and the governor singed it into law makes your point moot.
The Sports leagues have the burden of proof.

[thespaah]

There is no chance as long as the republicans control either the house or the senate. If the democrats control both houses , there a really slim chance, say about 2-3%. In other words, it ain't happening.
HUH? This is state law in NJ now.

[Robert Goren]

HUH? This is state law in NJ now.It is a federal law that stops that takes it from taking effect. Haven't you been paying attention at all?

[Stillriledup]

Control, Control, & more Control, New Jersey has no chance of getting sports betting in this lifetime or the next.

No chance?

[horses4courses]

It all comes down to money.
Politicians from both parties have the power to bring about change, but why would they ever bite the hand that feeds them?
Kudos to Gov. Christie for even attempting a change.

The sports leagues are cash cows (see advertising revenues for the NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAA), and although a fair portion of their popularity can be attributed to gambling, the money and power the leagues yield trumps any common sense and practicality when it comes to sports betting.
It will never fly in our lifetime, and may never at all. :ThmbDown:

[Stillriledup]

It all comes down to money.
Politicians from both parties have the power to bring about change, but why would they ever bite the hand that feeds them?
Kudos to Gov. Christie for even attempting a change.

The sports leagues are cash cows (see advertising revenues for the NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAA), and although a fair portion of their popularity can be attributed to gambling, the money and power the leagues yield trumps any common sense and practicality when it comes to sports betting.
It will never fly in our lifetime, and may never at all. :ThmbDown:

But does any of that cash cow cash go to the state of NJ?

I think that at this point, its just a legal issue as to whether the sports leagues can prove that sports betting in NJ will 'harm' their business. That's going to be a pretty tough sell considering that the leagues are doing just fine thank you at this point with legal sports betting in Las Vegas in full swing.

Maybe the state of NJ can actually prove that without sports betting, the leagues would actually suffer financially. You can make a strong case that the NFL wouldnt be as popular as it currently is without illegal and legal betting.

Another case the state could make is that with legal betting in NJ, there will be less illegal betting by definition...unless of course, the NFL wants to try and convince everyone that there's no such thing as illegal betting.

[horses4courses]

But does any of that cash cow cash go to the state of NJ?

I think that at this point, its just a legal issue as to whether the sports leagues can prove that sports betting in NJ will 'harm' their business. That's going to be a pretty tough sell considering that the leagues are doing just fine thank you at this point with legal sports betting in Las Vegas in full swing.

Maybe the state of NJ can actually prove that without sports betting, the leagues would actually suffer financially. You can make a strong case that the NFL wouldnt be as popular as it currently is without illegal and legal betting.

Another case the state could make is that with legal betting in NJ, there will be less illegal betting by definition...unless of course, the NFL wants to try and convince everyone that there's no such thing as illegal betting.

A portion of that money goes towards lobbying against sports betting.
Politicians who support the status quo, and would never vote in favor of the expansion of sports betting, can also expect contributions from the sports bodies, should they ever need them.

The arguments you state are valid, yet they would never hold up in court.
The strongest, in my opinion, is this one:
No place protects the sports leagues more than Las Vegas when it comes to policing gambling irregularities by athletes.
Point shaving schemes are usually noticed first by legal sports books. There is a long history to support this. But it's an argument that carries little weight with detractors, as they argue that no gambling at all, legal or otherwise, is the only way to eliminate point shaving and gambling by athletes. As if that state of affairs could ever exist.......... :rolleyes:

Once again, reality warrants little consideration when it comes to politics and sports betting in the US.

[usedtolovetvg]

Doesn't it really come down to the law? The prohibition of sports betting in NJ is a Federal Law. Wouldn't Congress and the Senate have to vote to change that? We all can see how well those guys have gotten along recently. With the political aspirations of Christie, it would seem like taking this on might piss off quite a few members of his party that he's going to need in 2016.

[appistappis]

it was suppose to be legal in canada by xmas but has been held up once again.

[thespaah]

But does any of that cash cow cash go to the state of NJ?

I think that at this point, its just a legal issue as to whether the sports leagues can prove that sports betting in NJ will 'harm' their business. That's going to be a pretty tough sell considering that the leagues are doing just fine thank you at this point with legal sports betting in Las Vegas in full swing.

Maybe the state of NJ can actually prove that without sports betting, the leagues would actually suffer financially. You can make a strong case that the NFL wouldnt be as popular as it currently is without illegal and legal betting.

Another case the state could make is that with legal betting in NJ, there will be less illegal betting by definition...unless of course, the NFL wants to try and convince everyone that there's no such thing as illegal betting.
Good point. Hypothetically, lets say NJ loses it's case. And in the ruling, the court unwittingly includes ALL states, which can happen.
Long shot yes. Now stay with me here for a moment. If betting on sports were made illegal, it is my speculation that TV ratings for sports would crash. I would guess that HALF of the tv ratings for NFL, NCAA football and Hoops are from people who have wagers on these sports.
I like NASCAR. The other day someone asked me who my favorite driver is. My answer was "the guy on which I have bets".
Here is my take on this ...Across the Pond in the UK, those people can bet on anything. If there's a line of a fight between two house cats, it is legal to bet on that bout. The Brits do not seem concerned with fixing of the outcome of games. That notion here is just a smokescreen.
The fact that 10 times the legal handle on the Super Bowl is in the form of illegal wagers. Has a Super Bowl ever been investigated for a fixed result?
The integrity of outcome argument by the pro sports leagues is crap. As well as the "purity of amateur sports" argument by the NCAA is also a stinky dog pile.

[horses4courses]

it was suppose to be legal in canada by xmas but has been held up once again.

Don't you have the option in Canada of betting with UK bookmakers?
I know you can use Betfair, if you wish.

Once you can legally bet overseas, you can bet all the sports you want. :ThmbUp:

[thespaah]

Doesn't it really come down to the law? The prohibition of sports betting in NJ is a Federal Law. Wouldn't Congress and the Senate have to vote to change that? We all can see how well those guys have gotten along recently. With the political aspirations of Christie, it would seem like taking this on might piss off quite a few members of his party that he's going to need in 2016.
Would it not be possible that Christie a member of the GOP thinks of what benefits his state FIRST rather than party first?
The federal government has much bigger fish to fry than betting in NJ.
IN any event, it would take a team of federal attorneys to bring a suit in federal court to at least ask for an injunction barring sport betting in NJ. Then of course the NJ State government would file an appeal which would go in front of a three judge federal appeals court and on and on we go. Lots of money spent to accomplish what? That the federal government once again is struggling with the allocation of resources in an efficient manner?
Anyway, It is my hope that NJ wins all rounds of this.
Hell, let them bet. No one is going to get hurt.

[horses4courses]

[QUOTE=thespaah The Brits do not seem concerned with fixing of the outcome of games. [/QUOTE]

I agree with almost all you say, except for the quote above.
Legal bookmakers in the UK are concerned with the fixing of outcomes.
They are, also, very good at policing their sports betting patterns, and watching for any betting irregularities.
Soccer in Europe has had it's share of corruption when it comes to betting, most recently in Italy.
Other sports, including tennis and snooker, have also had problems.
Does anyone think for one moment that those guilty of fixing outcomes on sporting events would ever have been brought to justice had the wagers been made with illegal bookmakers? Not a chance.
With illegal bookmaking (including offshore) continuing to flourish in this country, the fixing of outcomes on sporting events is potentially as big a problem as it ever was.

[thespaah]

I agree with almost all you say, except for the quote above.
Legal bookmakers in the UK are concerned with the fixing of outcomes.
They are, also, very good at policing their sports betting patterns, and watching for any betting irregularities.
Soccer in Europe has had it's share of corruption when it comes to betting, most recently in Italy.
Other sports, including tennis and snooker, have also had problems.
Does anyone think for one moment that those guilty of fixing outcomes on sporting events would ever have been brought to justice had the wagers been made with illegal bookmakers? Not a chance.
With illegal bookmaking (including offshore) continuing to flourish in this country, the fixing of outcomes on sporting events is potentially as big a problem as it ever was.
Out of context. I stated that in the context of 'just having sports betting here brings out the potential for the fix.
That concern in and of itself does not deter the UK from allowing the general public to do their punting.
I do not believe..no check that. I believe the expansion to NJ of legal sports betting will bring even further scrutiny to detect irregularities. In essence it would increase the integrity of contests.

[horses4courses]

Out of context. I stated that in the context of 'just having sports betting here brings out the potential for the fix.
That concern in and of itself does not deter the UK from allowing the general public to do their punting.
I do not believe..no check that. I believe the expansion to NJ of legal sports betting will bring even further scrutiny to detect irregularities. In essence it would increase the integrity of contests.

I fully agree.

[cj]

If sports betting is legalized on any large scale, racing is dead in the water.

[thespaah]

If sports betting is legalized on any large scale, racing is dead in the water.
Perhaps it is time for a huge wake up call to the racing industry to get it's collective ass out of it's slumber sack and get down to the business of saving the game.

[horses4courses]

If sports betting is legalized on any large scale, racing is dead in the water.

It could bring about the scaling down that should have been happening for years now.
Racing might actually have to do something about it's product in order to survive on a smaller scale.
But, have no fear. Sports betting won't happen.

[maddog42]

If sports betting is legalized on any large scale, racing is dead in the water.

It would definitely hurt racing. Dead in the water? Probably not.

[appistappis]

Don't you have the option in Canada of betting with UK bookmakers?
I know you can use Betfair, if you wish.

Once you can legally bet overseas, you can bet all the sports you want. :ThmbUp:

yes, that is correct but they are trying to get it in the casino's to draw the americans back.

[Stillriledup]

Good point. Hypothetically, lets say NJ loses it's case. And in the ruling, the court unwittingly includes ALL states, which can happen.
Long shot yes. Now stay with me here for a moment. If betting on sports were made illegal, it is my speculation that TV ratings for sports would crash. I would guess that HALF of the tv ratings for NFL, NCAA football and Hoops are from people who have wagers on these sports.
I like NASCAR. The other day someone asked me who my favorite driver is. My answer was "the guy on which I have bets".
Here is my take on this ...Across the Pond in the UK, those people can bet on anything. If there's a line of a fight between two house cats, it is legal to bet on that bout. The Brits do not seem concerned with fixing of the outcome of games. That notion here is just a smokescreen.
The fact that 10 times the legal handle on the Super Bowl is in the form of illegal wagers. Has a Super Bowl ever been investigated for a fixed result?
The integrity of outcome argument by the pro sports leagues is crap. As well as the "purity of amateur sports" argument by the NCAA is also a stinky dog pile.

When you see all the scandals in the sports leagues, including the NCAA, for them to stand on a pedastal and shout " betting would hurt us" its a crock, i totally agree with you, there's betting going on now, illegally and on a massive scale and that massive illegal betting is what runs the ships in these sports leagues.

The NCAA basketball tourney, march madness is madness for one reason...people bet the games legally and illegally on a large scale ...does the NCAA believe the popularity of march madness is due to the excitement of the games? Unless you have a family member in one of the games, or you attended one of those schools, i'm sure all you care about is winning the bet you made with your bookie.

Sports betting is going on, its not going away anytime soon, the sports leagues can have it regulated or have it underground....its their choice.

[usedtolovetvg]

I thought Canada was one of those grey, or is it gray, areas. Betfair is pulling out its marketing there.

[Robert Goren]

Perhaps it is time for a huge wake up call to the racing industry to get it's collective ass out of it's slumber sack and get down to the business of saving the game.Or more likely opposing sports betting at every turn.

[onefast99]

It could bring about the scaling down that should have been happening for years now.
Racing might actually have to do something about it's product in order to survive on a smaller scale.
But, have no fear. Sports betting won't happen.
Sports betting will eventually happen in the state of NJ. Based upon the simple fact that its time has come. If you think Christie approved it to just let it sit you are all dead wrong, he will make sure it has a very good chance of happening
sooner than you think!

[SandyW]

Sports betting will eventually happen in the state of NJ. Based upon the simple fact that its time has come. If you think Christie approved it to just let it sit you are all dead wrong, he will make sure it has a very good chance of happening
sooner than you think!

It is always good being an optimist, but the cold facts are that the different sports leagues and the NCAA will tie this up in court till at least the year 2050 or longer.
Christie is one man with very limited power if any over federal law.

[thespaah]

It is always good being an optimist, but the cold facts are that the different sports leagues and the NCAA will tie this up in court till at least the year 2050 or longer.
Christie is one man with very limited power if any over federal law.
The practice of tying up this issue in court could easily be challenged on a "illegal restraint of trade" argument. Also, the burden of proof falls upon the plaintiff. In this case the NCAA and the pro sports leagues. In other words, the betting should be permitted until such time as the plaintiffs prove their case. Not the other way around.
Those that believe the courts would not permit NJ to move forward are in effect demanding the NJ state government prove a negative. That the state must prove it is NOT causing harm. It doesn't work that way.
Same thing if one person sues another. It is not up to the defendant to prove they were not negligent. It is up to the plaintiff to prove the defendant IS negligent.
I will admit though that stranger things have happened. The plaintiffs may be able to find a judge that has an anti gambling agenda to issue an order to stay the law until the case can be tried.
I believe an appeal would be almost immediate. And the injunction would be overturned.
If there is anyone with legal experience here, please chime in.
I am going based on what little knowledge I have and going on common sense.
That's why I stated, stranger things have happened.

[Stillriledup]

It is always good being an optimist, but the cold facts are that the different sports leagues and the NCAA will tie this up in court till at least the year 2050 or longer.
Christie is one man with very limited power if any over federal law.

At some point, the court needs to make a ruling. If that ruling comes after Jan 20, the feds are powerless to then intervene. (allgedely).

I feel its going to be fairly difficult to prove that sports leagues would have LESS fans and LESS people watching on tv if there was no legal OR illegal betting.

[SandyW]

At some point, the court needs to make a ruling. If that ruling comes after Jan 20, the feds are powerless to then intervene. (allgedely).

I feel its going to be fairly difficult to prove that sports leagues would have LESS fans and LESS people watching on tv if there was no legal OR illegal betting.

This is something that I found online that may be an interesting view on this subject:

GOV. CHRISTIE Defies Federal laws on sports betting Residents of NJ PAY PRICE (http://gtrmc.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0aigstouo2oim5q8m93ssl5q30&topic=18.msg26#msg26)

« on: May 25, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »
Governor Christie had so far in office cost the tax payers of New Jersey over $1 Billion dollars. Yes $1 BILLION DOLLARS!! And that figure is very conservative and only counts what his Regime has cost us in federal reimbursements with about 3.5 million homes in New Jersey that breaks down to a tax reduction of $285.00 per household which includes apartment dwellers, or $125.00 per man woman and child in the state.

How do I derive at this figure well: $440,000,000 in race to the top money, 265,000,000 Race to the Top money for school aid and $285,000,000 in ARC tunnel project. These where federal reimbursements to the state with no strings attached that the federal government has taken from our state treasury and or never paid to our state because of failed applications marred with inconsistencies. These are just the obvious projects and grants he has cost us; this figure does not touch the surface on the projects the media has not brought to light.

Governor Christie has taken on the Federal Government and lost every time, with every loss costing the taxpayers dearly. Now Christie has taken it upon himself to violate Federal Gambling laws that prohibit Sports Betting in any state that failed to apply for reclusion from the law some years ago or even still to date. Christie believes by signing a state law allowing sports betting that somehow New Jersey law will supersede the federal Ban on such activities. Although I do not necessarily agree that there should be a ban in New Jersey, nor do I necessarily agree that such a ban really should exist anyplace, for that matter. I am a believer in the constitution and that the constitution is very clear that "NO STATE" shall make a law that supersedes the constitution. Any act of such could be seen as an act of succession. Most people would see an act of succession no differently then an act of War or Treason. It is grossly unfair for the residents of the State of New Jersey to be any further subjected to Governors Christies Whims. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and flexing ones muscles is never the way to accomplish anything especially when the very entity you’re flexing muscles with, can and will squash your actions with the embarrassing and financial recourse it has previously shown, when Christie choose to throw punches.

I only hope that the Federal Government hold the proper person accountable for his own actions as Christie does not share the same sentiments and convictions as the residents of New Jersey on this point. The federal government needs to hold Christie accountable and not the residents of New Jersey as a whole. We have lost $1 Billion dollars in federal funds over the last 2 years and Enough is Enough. Even the Casinos themselves do not want to take on the Federal Government and have said they will not open sports books until there is a clarification from the Federal government that they will allow this. That leaves only the Race tracks to benefit from the proposal and after all many believe that is exactly why Christie has done this, after all the Race tracks although subsidized to the tune of over $200,000,000 from The State of New Jersey in years 2010 to 2012 they are still failing miserably and this would complete the bailout to his multi millionaire friends and campaign contributors that own the failing Tracks.

Governor Christie’s actions are not just illegal and an embarrassment to our state, they are insulting to every resident but not only in New Jersey the entire United States as a whole. Christie is sending a message to the nation is that the Federal Laws don't matter, the last time someone decided that laws don't matter and he was just going to do as he wished a World War broke out. I for one do not wish to live under the rule of a radical dictator who feels the laws don't apply to him. Especially when his actions will be costing the tax payers dearly AGAIN! There are rules in place, follow them, make applications to the Federal Government to curtail the laws if you believe it is part of the evolution of our state but by all means don't put the law abiding residents in the middle of your power struggle especially when in the end your violation of Federal Law will cost our state dearly. When the Governor of a state openly defies federal law not only does it send a message that anarchy is the only way to achieve things the result effect the mass population negative and financially. The cost of such an elaborate legal battle between the state and federal governments is an expense the Tax payers of New Jersey should not have to be forced to absorb. The governor needs to be held accountable for every dime of tax payer money that it costs to defend against his criminal activity. I for one do not understand how the US Senate was so concerned whether Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens took steroids but have no concern over the slap in the face politics of the Governor of New Jersey whose actions are costing the residents Billions of dollars in lost federal revenues that the state and the tax payers so desperately need.

[Stillriledup]

This is something that I found online that may be an interesting view on this subject:

GOV. CHRISTIE Defies Federal laws on sports betting Residents of NJ PAY PRICE (http://gtrmc.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0aigstouo2oim5q8m93ssl5q30&topic=18.msg26#msg26)

« on: May 25, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »
Governor Christie had so far in office cost the tax payers of New Jersey over $1 Billion dollars. Yes $1 BILLION DOLLARS!! And that figure is very conservative and only counts what his Regime has cost us in federal reimbursements with about 3.5 million homes in New Jersey that breaks down to a tax reduction of $285.00 per household which includes apartment dwellers, or $125.00 per man woman and child in the state.

How do I derive at this figure well: $440,000,000 in race to the top money, 265,000,000 Race to the Top money for school aid and $285,000,000 in ARC tunnel project. These where federal reimbursements to the state with no strings attached that the federal government has taken from our state treasury and or never paid to our state because of failed applications marred with inconsistencies. These are just the obvious projects and grants he has cost us; this figure does not touch the surface on the projects the media has not brought to light.

Governor Christie has taken on the Federal Government and lost every time, with every loss costing the taxpayers dearly. Now Christie has taken it upon himself to violate Federal Gambling laws that prohibit Sports Betting in any state that failed to apply for reclusion from the law some years ago or even still to date. Christie believes by signing a state law allowing sports betting that somehow New Jersey law will supersede the federal Ban on such activities. Although I do not necessarily agree that there should be a ban in New Jersey, nor do I necessarily agree that such a ban really should exist anyplace, for that matter. I am a believer in the constitution and that the constitution is very clear that "NO STATE" shall make a law that supersedes the constitution. Any act of such could be seen as an act of succession. Most people would see an act of succession no differently then an act of War or Treason. It is grossly unfair for the residents of the State of New Jersey to be any further subjected to Governors Christies Whims. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and flexing ones muscles is never the way to accomplish anything especially when the very entity you’re flexing muscles with, can and will squash your actions with the embarrassing and financial recourse it has previously shown, when Christie choose to throw punches.

I only hope that the Federal Government hold the proper person accountable for his own actions as Christie does not share the same sentiments and convictions as the residents of New Jersey on this point. The federal government needs to hold Christie accountable and not the residents of New Jersey as a whole. We have lost $1 Billion dollars in federal funds over the last 2 years and Enough is Enough. Even the Casinos themselves do not want to take on the Federal Government and have said they will not open sports books until there is a clarification from the Federal government that they will allow this. That leaves only the Race tracks to benefit from the proposal and after all many believe that is exactly why Christie has done this, after all the Race tracks although subsidized to the tune of over $200,000,000 from The State of New Jersey in years 2010 to 2012 they are still failing miserably and this would complete the bailout to his multi millionaire friends and campaign contributors that own the failing Tracks.

Governor Christie’s actions are not just illegal and an embarrassment to our state, they are insulting to every resident but not only in New Jersey the entire United States as a whole. Christie is sending a message to the nation is that the Federal Laws don't matter, the last time someone decided that laws don't matter and he was just going to do as he wished a World War broke out. I for one do not wish to live under the rule of a radical dictator who feels the laws don't apply to him. Especially when his actions will be costing the tax payers dearly AGAIN! There are rules in place, follow them, make applications to the Federal Government to curtail the laws if you believe it is part of the evolution of our state but by all means don't put the law abiding residents in the middle of your power struggle especially when in the end your violation of Federal Law will cost our state dearly. When the Governor of a state openly defies federal law not only does it send a message that anarchy is the only way to achieve things the result effect the mass population negative and financially. The cost of such an elaborate legal battle between the state and federal governments is an expense the Tax payers of New Jersey should not have to be forced to absorb. The governor needs to be held accountable for every dime of tax payer money that it costs to defend against his criminal activity. I for one do not understand how the US Senate was so concerned whether Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens took steroids but have no concern over the slap in the face politics of the Governor of New Jersey whose actions are costing the residents Billions of dollars in lost federal revenues that the state and the tax payers so desperately need.

Its sports betting.

[depalma113]

The Constitution forbids federal law from giving preference to one state over another. Since the Federal government allows sports betting in 4 states and bans it in 46 others, the way I read it, the law is unconstitutional.

The only way the I could sse that law would be found constitutional is if any state that applied for an exemption was immediately granted the exemption. If not, than the law must be struck as it gives preference in commerce to one state over another.

Article 1 section 9

"No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another."

[Robert Goren]

The courts will decide this. It may go to the Supreme Court. Even best legal minds in the country haven't got clue on how the Roberts Court will rule on anything. It is known for preverted logic. I think even conservatives will agree with liberals on that. My uneducated guess, the Federal law wins, but who knows. It will cost NJ a lot of money to find out, of that I am certain.

[onefast99]

The courts will decide this. It may go to the Supreme Court. Even best legal minds in the country haven't got clue on how the Roberts Court will rule on anything. It is known for preverted logic. I think even conservatives will agree with liberals on that. My uneducated guess, the Federal law wins, but who knows. It will cost NJ a lot of money to find out, of that I am certain.
You also said NJ racing would be dead in 2011, how did that work out for you?

[Robert Goren]

You also said NJ racing would be dead in 2011, how did that work out for you?I never said that. I said that the casino and taxpayer funding would be gone and NJ racing would have to be survive on its own. NJ racing has done what it had to do to survive.
I did say that the proposed deal that the track was to be sold to this rich guy (whose name escapes me) would fall through because he wanted tax money to operate and it did. As I understand it, NJ racing is now being run by a horseman's group now and they are doing a pretty good job in general of running a scaled down racing operation (although their takeout is still way to high). Racetracks being run by the horsemen without the aid of outside money may be the wave of the future.

[thespaah]

This is something that I found online that may be an interesting view on this subject:

GOV. CHRISTIE Defies Federal laws on sports betting Residents of NJ PAY PRICE (http://gtrmc.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0aigstouo2oim5q8m93ssl5q30&topic=18.msg26#msg26)

« on: May 25, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »
Governor Christie had so far in office cost the tax payers of New Jersey over $1 Billion dollars. Yes $1 BILLION DOLLARS!! And that figure is very conservative and only counts what his Regime has cost us in federal reimbursements with about 3.5 million homes in New Jersey that breaks down to a tax reduction of $285.00 per household which includes apartment dwellers, or $125.00 per man woman and child in the state.

How do I derive at this figure well: $440,000,000 in race to the top money, 265,000,000 Race to the Top money for school aid and $285,000,000 in ARC tunnel project. These where federal reimbursements to the state with no strings attached that the federal government has taken from our state treasury and or never paid to our state because of failed applications marred with inconsistencies. These are just the obvious projects and grants he has cost us; this figure does not touch the surface on the projects the media has not brought to light.

Governor Christie has taken on the Federal Government and lost every time, with every loss costing the taxpayers dearly. Now Christie has taken it upon himself to violate Federal Gambling laws that prohibit Sports Betting in any state that failed to apply for reclusion from the law some years ago or even still to date. Christie believes by signing a state law allowing sports betting that somehow New Jersey law will supersede the federal Ban on such activities. Although I do not necessarily agree that there should be a ban in New Jersey, nor do I necessarily agree that such a ban really should exist anyplace, for that matter. I am a believer in the constitution and that the constitution is very clear that "NO STATE" shall make a law that supersedes the constitution. Any act of such could be seen as an act of succession. Most people would see an act of succession no differently then an act of War or Treason. It is grossly unfair for the residents of the State of New Jersey to be any further subjected to Governors Christies Whims. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and flexing ones muscles is never the way to accomplish anything especially when the very entity you’re flexing muscles with, can and will squash your actions with the embarrassing and financial recourse it has previously shown, when Christie choose to throw punches.

I only hope that the Federal Government hold the proper person accountable for his own actions as Christie does not share the same sentiments and convictions as the residents of New Jersey on this point. The federal government needs to hold Christie accountable and not the residents of New Jersey as a whole. We have lost $1 Billion dollars in federal funds over the last 2 years and Enough is Enough. Even the Casinos themselves do not want to take on the Federal Government and have said they will not open sports books until there is a clarification from the Federal government that they will allow this. That leaves only the Race tracks to benefit from the proposal and after all many believe that is exactly why Christie has done this, after all the Race tracks although subsidized to the tune of over $200,000,000 from The State of New Jersey in years 2010 to 2012 they are still failing miserably and this would complete the bailout to his multi millionaire friends and campaign contributors that own the failing Tracks.

Governor Christie’s actions are not just illegal and an embarrassment to our state, they are insulting to every resident but not only in New Jersey the entire United States as a whole. Christie is sending a message to the nation is that the Federal Laws don't matter, the last time someone decided that laws don't matter and he was just going to do as he wished a World War broke out. I for one do not wish to live under the rule of a radical dictator who feels the laws don't apply to him. Especially when his actions will be costing the tax payers dearly AGAIN! There are rules in place, follow them, make applications to the Federal Government to curtail the laws if you believe it is part of the evolution of our state but by all means don't put the law abiding residents in the middle of your power struggle especially when in the end your violation of Federal Law will cost our state dearly. When the Governor of a state openly defies federal law not only does it send a message that anarchy is the only way to achieve things the result effect the mass population negative and financially. The cost of such an elaborate legal battle between the state and federal governments is an expense the Tax payers of New Jersey should not have to be forced to absorb. The governor needs to be held accountable for every dime of tax payer money that it costs to defend against his criminal activity. I for one do not understand how the US Senate was so concerned whether Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens took steroids but have no concern over the slap in the face politics of the Governor of New Jersey whose actions are costing the residents Billions of dollars in lost federal revenues that the state and the tax payers so desperately need.
Let us establish that this is an opinion piece.
The writer refers to "lost federal dollars". To clarify, this is known as "federal aid".. New Jersey has been at the federal trough to a greater degree than most other states. And that has gone on for decades. Christie in his quest to lower taxes and make New Jersey a more productive state with less dependency on federal help, has reduced the amount of inbound money from Washington. SO what?
Now, on to the meat the writer's whine.
Just because a law is on the books does not mean the law is written in stone.
Unjust laws are challenged and sometimes defeated or changed. This is a GOOD thing.
This writer appears to find it more comfortable to rely on the good graces of the federal government than to see NJ be able to use sports betting to raise revenue to the point where federal aid is no longer needed.
Sports betting would be a cash windfall for the state.
Yes there are naysayers in NJ who are opposed. The writer of the piece seems to be one of those.
To be direct, New Jersey is the kingdom of the naysayer. It is the "why should we state". It is a place where most people would gladly accept just about anything, as long as it is not within eye shot of their house or located in their town. I grew up there. It is a state full of miserable people.
Just a few weeks ago, I read a story in the Bergen Record's on line addition that the state wants to set up a temporary casino in the Sports Complex for the two weeks of festivities surrounding the 2014 Super Bowl.
Nearly every response in the comment section below was negative. And nothing substantive. Just a bunch of whining and complaining about nothing.
I left NJ many years ago because the place is populated by 8 million sticks in the mud.

[thespaah]

The Constitution forbids federal law from giving preference to one state over another. Since the Federal government allows sports betting in 4 states and bans it in 46 others, the way I read it, the law is unconstitutional.

The only way the I could sse that law would be found constitutional is if any state that applied for an exemption was immediately granted the exemption. If not, than the law must be struck as it gives preference in commerce to one state over another.

Article 1 section 9

"No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another."
This is precisely why I made the comment earlier in the thread that the courts could unwittingly rule on this case and in that ruling outlaw sports betting in ALL 50 states.
As citizens and of course the States have their rights( 10th Amendment)have the right to use the courts to redress grievances.
We have the right to challenge laws we view as unjust. In my opinion, the federal ban on sports betting should apply to all 50 states or be overturned.
I think Christie did the right thing by signing the legislation.
Of course those who favor the ban will use the excuse " federal law trumps state law"...Well yeah, it does. But no one is challenging that authority.

[onefast99]

I never said that. I said that the casino and taxpayer funding would be gone and NJ racing would have to be survive on its own. NJ racing has done what it had to do to survive.
I did say that the proposed deal that the track was to be sold to this rich guy (whose name escapes me) would fall through because he wanted tax money to operate and it did. As I understand it, NJ racing is now being run by a horseman's group now and they are doing a pretty good job in general of running a scaled down racing operation (although their takeout is still way to high). Racetracks being run by the horsemen without the aid of outside money may be the wave of the future.
You are talking about Morris Bailey he bailed out on NJ racing because of many issues including additional racing dates as well as a $5m payday from the state if they didn't recieve those additional dates. The horseman are doing a very good job considering that their closest competition, Parx and NYRA, are slot funded tracks with bigger purses. NJ racing is looking for more revenue streams and hopefully they get them.

[alhattab]

Let us establish that this is an opinion piece.
The writer refers to "lost federal dollars". To clarify, this is known as "federal aid".. New Jersey has been at the federal trough to a greater degree than most other states. And that has gone on for decades. Christie in his quest to lower taxes and make New Jersey a more productive state with less dependency on federal help, has reduced the amount of inbound money from Washington. SO what?
Now, on to the meat the writer's whine.
Just because a law is on the books does not mean the law is written in stone.
Unjust laws are challenged and sometimes defeated or changed. This is a GOOD thing.
This writer appears to find it more comfortable to rely on the good graces of the federal government than to see NJ be able to use sports betting to raise revenue to the point where federal aid is no longer needed.
Sports betting would be a cash windfall for the state.
Yes there are naysayers in NJ who are opposed. The writer of the piece seems to be one of those.
To be direct, New Jersey is the kingdom of the naysayer. It is the "why should we state". It is a place where most people would gladly accept just about anything, as long as it is not within eye shot of their house or located in their town. I grew up there. It is a state full of miserable people.
Just a few weeks ago, I read a story in the Bergen Record's on line addition that the state wants to set up a temporary casino in the Sports Complex for the two weeks of festivities surrounding the 2014 Super Bowl.
Nearly every response in the comment section below was negative. And nothing substantive. Just a bunch of whining and complaining about nothing.
I left NJ many years ago because the place is populated by 8 million sticks in the mud.

Spaah- the piece that SandyW posted is a blog post from the Gloucseter county newspaper. It is such drivel that it doesn't warrant a response. I can't imagine anyone on this board could believe that crap.

To me the main question is how quickly the courts will address the matter. Nobody wants to make investments in infrastructure or marketing, then have the Feds come in and shut them down, and in the casinos' cases have licensing in other states threatened, if they proceeded with sports betting in NJ in violation of Federal law, no matter how unconstitutional it may seem. So we sit in limbo until the courts address the matter. Also, can anyone explain this Jan 20 deadline for the Feds to inform Shipp if they want to "intervene"? Given the issue is the state making something legal that Federal law prohibits, how do the Feds not intervene?

[usedtolovetvg]

Given the issue is the state making something legal that Federal law prohibits, how do the Feds not intervene?

Much the same way that the marijuana laws have been dealt with, I suppose. The big question is not whether the State is willing to challenge the Feds but whether the operators will choose to do so. These are not small businesses like the marijuana collectives but rather multinationals that operate across State lines.

[alhattab]

Much the same way that the marijuana laws have been dealt with, I suppose. The big question is not whether the State is willing to challenge the Feds but whether the operators will choose to do so. These are not small businesses like the marijuana collectives but rather multinationals that operate across State lines.

Thanks. The marijuana situation is very similar, but you helped me better appreciate the fundamental differences between the two. It will be interesting to see how the feds deal with that one given it is mainly little guys at the moment. Still it seems strange, as a matter of policy, for the Feds to allow open flouting of a Federal law.

[Robert Goren]

You are talking about Morris Bailey he bailed out on NJ racing because of many issues including additional racing dates as well as a $5m payday from the state if they didn't recieve those additional dates. The horseman are doing a very good job considering that their closest competition, Parx and NYRA, are slot funded tracks with bigger purses. NJ racing is looking for more revenue streams and hopefully they get them.The last I knew, they were trying to get more OTB parlors but having some trouble with some of the sites over permits and/or zoning. I understand that NJ tracks have figured out, at least to some extent, they need to compete for gamblers as well as horses. That is major step in the right direction.

[onefast99]

The last I knew, they were trying to get more OTB parlors but having some trouble with some of the sites over permits and/or zoning. I understand that NJ tracks have figured out, at least to some extent, they need to compete for gamblers as well as horses. That is major step in the right direction.
There is no zoning or permit issues the issue is where to put the next OTW so it won't cut into Favorites(Woodbridge) as Winners(Bayonne)has, knocking Favorites for about a 20% decline in handle. Jersey City was one site that was looked at but it is being ko'd by Gural and his group. There are many other sites that look good but based on feasability studies they would hurt both of the existing northern NJ facilities. There are also mini licenses available to put in restaurants but that has been held up also due to the threat of law suits by Greenwood Racing. There is no simple solution to NJ's needs for additional revenue streams to keep racing going at a level equal to its direct competition.

[affirmedny]

There is no zoning or permit issues the issue is where to put the next OTW so it won't cut into Favorites(Woodbridge) as Winners(Bayonne)has, knocking Favorites for about a 20% decline in handle. Jersey City was one site that was looked at but it is being ko'd by Gural and his group. There are many other sites that look good but based on feasability studies they would hurt both of the existing northern NJ facilities. There are also mini licenses available to put in restaurants but that has been held up also due to the threat of law suits by Greenwood Racing. There is no simple solution to NJ's needs for additional revenue streams to keep racing going at a level equal to its direct competition.

The only reason Winners "hurts" Favorites is that they're owned by different entities. If they were owned by the same outfit it's a normal byproduct of expansion.

If I were Gural I'd put one in Montvale or Park Ridge and lure NYers over the border by advertising no surcharge on winnings.

[thespaah]

The only reason Winners "hurts" Favorites is that they're owned by different entities. If they were owned by the same outfit it's a normal byproduct of expansion.

If I were Gural I'd put one in Montvale or Park Ridge and lure NYers over the border by advertising no surcharge on winnings.
Here is the issue regarding NJ OTW's.....It's called "home rule".
Sure as the sun rises the NIMBY factor reigns supreme in the Garden State. All 550 municipalities are like small fiefdoms. Nothing gets done unless there is a public referendum( pure democracy at it's worst). MOst non- urban NJ communities are small bedroom towns with small business centers and most folks would rather just not see "outsiders"(those people) come into their town. However, they like to see things get built. Malls, movie theatres restaurants and clubs. Just not in "THEIR town. I am from NJ. It took over 3 years and a lot of "palm greasing" for a friggin Mc Donald's to get built in my home town.
It took over 5 years just to get my town wired for cable TV. My hometown was one the last places in NJ to get cable. And why is this? Because the people running the town demanded the highest franchise fee of all the surrounding towns.
So now we have (GASP!!!!! ) A GAMBLING VENUE...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, wanting to open up in Park Ridge or Montvale. Oh yeah, I can see it now..Every soccer mommy, every church, every kids recreational sport director, every housewife come out in oppostion to such a dirty nasty seedy place. Oh the cliches will fly..."Too much traffic". "Increase in crime". The enviro wackos will scream about pollution. The helicopter parents will spill their milk over those death rays coming from the building. The Blue Haired Old Bitties Club will have a collective aneurysm over "those ugly satellite dishes"..The church groups will holler about the evils of gambling and how an OTW will keep people from going to church and of course the church people will claim an OTW will bring prostitution..
Yes, some these are absurdities. Some are not absurd at all.
The OTW license holders had better get used to the idea that most of NJ is off limits. They should concentrate their efforts in the urban areas. Although these are places most folks would rather avoid.
New Jersey should change the motto stamped into the license plates of NJ residents from the "Garden State" to the "Why Should We State".

[thespaah]

There is no zoning or permit issues the issue is where to put the next OTW so it won't cut into Favorites(Woodbridge) as Winners(Bayonne)has, knocking Favorites for about a 20% decline in handle. Jersey City was one site that was looked at but it is being ko'd by Gural and his group. There are many other sites that look good but based on feasability studies they would hurt both of the existing northern NJ facilities. There are also mini licenses available to put in restaurants but that has been held up also due to the threat of law suits by Greenwood Racing. There is no simple solution to NJ's needs for additional revenue streams to keep racing going at a level equal to its direct competition.
I must ask, what interest does a company which operates a racetrack and casino in Pennsylvania have in OTW facilities in restaurants located in New Jersey? And how could a "threat" of a lawsuit, shut down the entire State of New Jersey from establishing these betting places?
The logic escapes me.

[onefast99]

I must ask, what interest does a company which operates a racetrack and casino in Pennsylvania have in OTW facilities in restaurants located in New Jersey? And how could a "threat" of a lawsuit, shut down the entire State of New Jersey from establishing these betting places?
The logic escapes me.
Greenwood racing owns Atlantic City racecourse and Pennwood owns Freehold thus allowing them to open 4 new OTW's in the southern part of the state, currently Greenwood owns the Vineland NJ OTW and Pennwood(a joint venture between Penn National Gaming and Greenwood) owns one in Toms River NJ. When Gural and Drazin took over their respective tracks the state was in the process of launching a "pilot program" that allowed for the use of one of the OTW licenses in a bar or restaurant. The lawsuit filed by both parties, Greenwood and PNG alleges that the operators of the Meadowlands(Gural)and Monmouth Park(Drazin)have been
given an unfair advantage by the program that only applies to operators that have either bought or leased a state-owned racetrack, a sore point for the plaintiffs.
Hopefully this answers your question.

[affirmedny]

Here is the issue regarding NJ OTW's.....It's called "home rule".
Sure as the sun rises the NIMBY factor reigns supreme in the Garden State. All 550 municipalities are like small fiefdoms. Nothing gets done unless there is a public referendum( pure democracy at it's worst). MOst non- urban NJ communities are small bedroom towns with small business centers and most folks would rather just not see "outsiders"(those people) come into their town. However, they like to see things get built. Malls, movie theatres restaurants and clubs. Just not in "THEIR town. I am from NJ. It took over 3 years and a lot of "palm greasing" for a friggin Mc Donald's to get built in my home town.
It took over 5 years just to get my town wired for cable TV. My hometown was one the last places in NJ to get cable. And why is this? Because the people running the town demanded the highest franchise fee of all the surrounding towns.
So now we have (GASP!!!!! ) A GAMBLING VENUE...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, wanting to open up in Park Ridge or Montvale. Oh yeah, I can see it now..Every soccer mommy, every church, every kids recreational sport director, every housewife come out in oppostion to such a dirty nasty seedy place. Oh the cliches will fly..."Too much traffic". "Increase in crime". The enviro wackos will scream about pollution. The helicopter parents will spill their milk over those death rays coming from the building. The Blue Haired Old Bitties Club will have a collective aneurysm over "those ugly satellite dishes"..The church groups will holler about the evils of gambling and how an OTW will keep people from going to church and of course the church people will claim an OTW will bring prostitution..
Yes, some these are absurdities. Some are not absurd at all.
The OTW license holders had better get used to the idea that most of NJ is off limits. They should concentrate their efforts in the urban areas. Although these are places most folks would rather avoid.
New Jersey should change the motto stamped into the license plates of NJ residents from the "Garden State" to the "Why Should We State".

I'm a lifelong resident of NJ and I agree with you. This is much more the issue than where to put an otb that doesn't hurt the existing otbs.

[johnhannibalsmith]

For those interested, a very minor update:

http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowlandsmatters/4582/nfl-et-al-respond-to-horsemens-version-of-facts-in-nj-sports-betting-case/

[Stillriledup]

If gambling were the preacher's daughter, the NFL would knock her up, raise its hands plaintively as if it had never touched her — and then go to church to pray for her unborn child.

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/NFL-s-gambling-hypocrisy-3929901.php#ixzz2GVXY1Jg0

[Robert Goren]

The NFL and the other sports leagues believe gambling hurts their businesses. You can argue all day long and they aren't going to change their minds. Nether will making snide comments about them here. If NJ wants gambling on their games, they are going have to find way to do it over their objections and probably pay a price in events moved to other states. That is the way it is and is going to stay for quite some time. And one more thing if you or anyone thinks saying it is needed to save horse racing is going to change their minds, you or they are just plain wrong. Nobody outside of horse racing gives a rat's ass if horse racing survives or not.

[onefast99]

The NFL and the other sports leagues believe gambling hurts their businesses. You can argue all day long and they aren't going to change their minds. Nether will making snide comments about them here. If NJ wants gambling on their games, they are going have to find way to do it over their objections and probably pay a price in events moved to other states. That is the way it is and is going to stay for quite some time. And one more thing if you or anyone thinks saying it is needed to save horse racing is going to change their minds, you or they are just plain wrong. Nobody outside of horse racing gives a rat's ass if horse racing survives or not.
Is it ok to say it is needed to save the casinos in Atlantic City?

[thespaah]

If gambling were the preacher's daughter, the NFL would knock her up, raise its hands plaintively as if it had never touched her — and then go to church to pray for her unborn child.

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/NFL-s-gambling-hypocrisy-3929901.php#ixzz2GVXY1Jg0
That's a very well written commentary.
I agree. If for whatever reason, it is my belief that a total ban on sports betting, sports TV ratings would plummet.

[thespaah]

Is it ok to say it is needed to save the casinos in Atlantic City?
AC is it's own worst enemy.
The city is a crime infested dump.

[Robert Goren]

Is it ok to say it is needed to save the casinos in Atlantic City?I don't that has anything to with it. Christie is searching for money to run the NJ state government without raising taxes. There is a lot people who want a crack at those revenues, but the state get the first crack and probably the only crack at it.

[onefast99]

I don't that has anything to with it. Christie is searching for money to run the NJ state government without raising taxes. There is a lot people who want a crack at those revenues, but the state get the first crack and probably the only crack at it.
Look at the tax breaks AC is getting and comeback to me once you have gotten up off the floor. Here is just one that will make you wonder what is going on!
Kevin DeSanctis, Revel’s chief executive, was unable to secure new financing until the state stepped in last Feb. 1 with a $261 million tax credit and a pledge from Gov. Chris Christie, a Republican, to invest in the flailing tourism industry.

Read the whole story here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/realestate/commercial/revel-a-2-4-billion-casino-nears-completion-in-atlantic-city.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[thespaah]

Look at the tax breaks AC is getting and comeback to me once you have gotten up off the floor. Here is just one that will make you wonder what is going on!
Kevin DeSanctis, Revel’s chief executive, was unable to secure new financing until the state stepped in last Feb. 1 with a $261 million tax credit and a pledge from Gov. Chris Christie, a Republican, to invest in the flailing tourism industry.

Read the whole story here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/realestate/commercial/revel-a-2-4-billion-casino-nears-completion-in-atlantic-city.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
If increasing revenue through casinos is Christie's goal, then why not come out in support of a casino at the Meadowlands? The place would be a license to print money. It would be the a casino in the largest market in the US and one of the largest markets in the world.
Can the politicians in South Jersey who have ties to AC be THAT influential?
I really do not see a very bright future for Atlantic City casinos. Not unless the City government cleans up the City.
Save for the casino district, AC is one big ghetto.

[horses4courses]

it is my belief that a total ban on sports betting, sports TV ratings would plummet.

That's a major part of the problem, though.
Even if all legal sports wagering was abolished, illegal wagering would prosper even more,
and the majority of people who wager on sports in this country would not be the least bit affected by such a ban.
Therefore, TV ratings would not be altered to any extent.

There could be no such thing as a total ban on sports wagering.

[Robert Goren]

If increasing revenue through casinos is Christie's goal, then why not come out in support of a casino at the Meadowlands? The place would be a license to print money. It would be the a casino in the largest market in the US and one of the largest markets in the world.
Can the politicians in South Jersey who have ties to AC be THAT influential?
I really do not see a very bright future for Atlantic City casinos. Not unless the City government cleans up the City.
Save for the casino district, AC is one big ghetto.The ship may have already sailed on that with advent of racinos at NYC area race tracks

[thespaah]

The ship may have already sailed on that with advent of racinos at NYC area race tracks
How so?
Racinos? What do they have to do with anything? They are in New York. The Meadowlands is in New Jersey.

[Robert Goren]

How so?
Racinos? What do they have to do with anything? They are in New York. The Meadowlands is in New Jersey. How many of the Meadowland casino's customers would have come from NYC if the racinos were built?

[onefast99]

The ship may have already sailed on that with advent of racinos at NYC area race tracks
Imagine if NY thought the same way when Parx was built!

[onefast99]

How many of the Meadowland casino's customers would have come from NYC if the racinos were built?
Too many to count, why? Due to the fact that NJ built a huge public transportation platform from NYC as well as a mega million dollar renovation of route 3 to handle the additional traffic to the new Metlife Stadium complex which is within a stones throw of the Meadowlands race track. "Take the train to the game"

[thespaah]

How many of the Meadowland casino's customers would have come from NYC if the racinos were built?
Yer kidding, right?
You do realize there is mass transit that goes from NY to NJ and back, do you not?
Stop with the racino bit.
We're talking a full casino with table games AND hopefully a sports book.
Look, those who play nothing but VLT's are going to the closest place to get to that type of gaming.
Those who are now traveling to Mohigan Sun And Foxwoods or to AC will calculate which is more convenient. With a new casino right in their back yard, which do you think they will choose?
And don;t think for a second that those two aforementioned places will not sweeten their deals( comps) to keep those customers. A casino in the Meadowlands is a 100% win win...
How anyone could be opposed( unless one has ties to Atlantic City) is a mystery.
Hey, this is not going to stop. The State of NY has been looking into setting up or allowing private enterprise to set up casinos in the Catskills. One way or another that NY Metro area money is going local. May as well be NJ that gets the dough

[thespaah]

Too many to count, why? Due to the fact that NJ built a huge public transportation platform from NYC as well as a mega million dollar renovation of route 3 to handle the additional traffic to the new Metlife Stadium complex which is within a stones throw of the Meadowlands race track. "Take the train to the game"
Mr Goren may not realize that one can see Midtown Manhattan skyscrapers from the Sports Complex.

[onefast99]

Mr Goren may not realize that one can see Midtown Manhattan skyscrapers from the Sports Complex.
All you have to do is watch a Giants or Jets home game and they show NYC at least 10x especially when they show the blimp camera. The Meadowlands is a perfect spot for a casino! Especially if it is equipped with table games.

[mannyberrios]

Mr Goren may not realize that one can see Midtown Manhattan skyscrapers from the Sports Complex.
Mr Gorens does not realize these things

[burnsy]

Yer kidding, right?
You do realize there is mass transit that goes from NY to NJ and back, do you not?
Stop with the racino bit.
We're talking a full casino with table games AND hopefully a sports book.
Look, those who play nothing but VLT's are going to the closest place to get to that type of gaming.
Those who are now traveling to Mohigan Sun And Foxwoods or to AC will calculate which is more convenient. With a new casino right in their back yard, which do you think they will choose?
And don;t think for a second that those two aforementioned places will not sweeten their deals( comps) to keep those customers. A casino in the Meadowlands is a 100% win win...
How anyone could be opposed( unless one has ties to Atlantic City) is a mystery.
Hey, this is not going to stop. The State of NY has been looking into setting up or allowing private enterprise to set up casinos in the Catskills. One way or another that NY Metro area money is going local. May as well be NJ that gets the dough
You are right both states are trying to get in on the casino craze.....the sports book deal is another issue. How it can't be legal is beyond me.....The NFL says betting is "bad", wink, wink. Give me a break, there are interests, Vegas, the NFL and others that would like to see the locations limited. Let the republicans and democrats get a hold of the issue and its sure to be a cluster "bleep" , special interests and bookies will have them arguing for decades....the chumps on the "off topic" political threads will have a field day...the dems did this or the repubs did that.....if you get to a certain age and have not figured out that the political parties are a total fraud....you deserve to belong to one of them. That crap is just foolish. Its supposed to be a free country but if you buy a square, brackets in march or a parlay sheet during the season...you are breaking the law :lol: ...........the law is a joke as many of them are but the sheeple just take it and argue over which moronic political party is responsible. And thats how its done...with enough finger pointing it could take lifetimes to square away.....just like everything else. People still have not caught on.......unbelievable. But you bet your butt they will lock you up and take your money for organizing a betting operation. They even try to outlaw internet gaming...i have friends that lost money during the poker fiasco....free country my @ss! Its a "party" system...where neither one knows what the constitution is...but people are dumb enough to follow. This is just another chapter in our sad state of affairs. People should not bet, we need big brother to look out for you...but everyone does it anyway...ridiculous. :mad:

[Robert Goren]

Mr Goren may not realize that one can see Midtown Manhattan skyscrapers from the Sports Complex.Yes I do

[Valuist]

Isn't this thing still alive? Have to wonder if they'd push to get it up and going before opening week of the NFL season.

[Stillriledup]

Isn't this thing still alive? Have to wonder if they'd push to get it up and going before opening week of the NFL season.

Its ridiculous that there's such a fight from the pro sports leagues, increased betting results in increased revenue from the leagues, if more people can bet, more people watch.

[wiffleball whizz]

Why do you think they switched time starts from 4:05 to 4:25.......GAMBLING reasons.......1000000 percent fact

[Stillriledup]

Why do you think they switched time starts from 4:05 to 4:25.......GAMBLING reasons.......1000000 percent fact

Why do you think the NFL produces accurate injury reports and why do you think that there's ONE "get out" game on Monday night?

THEY NEED ACCURATE SPREADS FOR THE GAMBLERS!