Best new wagering idea in a while...

[pele polo]

Inflated WPS mutuels...


134.00 23.00 18.00

119.50 21.00 11.50

73.50 25.50 14.00

387.00 44.50 33.50




These were some of the prices from the Thursday and Friday cards at Hollywood... the dog track that it is, the old Hollywood Dog Track in South Florida that's just a mile up the road from Gulfstream and is now called Mardi Gras Casino and Racetrack.

During the last few seasons they've experimented with 9% takeout on WPS wagers and have continued that this season to go along with their new idea of a $5 minimum on all WPS wagers. Personally, I love it. Remember this minimum has been $2 for 100 years.

The controversial but very popular Dime Super was first implemented in the early 2000s at the ill-fated Hinsdale Greyhound Park in New Hampshire.

Like them or love them, greyhound racing has been responsible for many ideas that are found popular today in thoroughbred racing. My question is, when is thoroughbred racing going to shake things up and get creative like this?

Can you imagine 9% takeout this winter at Gulfstream, Santa Anita, and Aqueduct? $5 or $10 mins. in the in WPS pool? Or something better, something new... an idea....?

[usedtolovetvg]

Inflated WPS mutuels...


134.00 23.00 18.00

119.50 21.00 11.50
73.50 25.50 14.00
387.00 44.50 33.50


Of course, base on a $5 payout. I would think the final race odds would be very telling.

[pele polo]

There wasnt a single win payoff below double digits. Well bet favorites paid $20.

When is the last time we've seen a horse pay $387 on a min wager?

Bottom line is it provides excitement. The wow factor when those prices go up, especially for those new to the sport, has to be a tremendous promotional and fan pleasing stratogem.

[usedtolovetvg]

There wasnt a single win payoff below double digits. Well bet favorites paid $20.

3-1 faves better for the game for sure.

[therussmeister]

Inflated WPS mutuels...
These were some of the prices from the Thursday and Friday cards at Hollywood... the dog track

In order for us to judge the value of this we need to see all of the payouts from Thursday and Friday cards, plus a couple dozen other cards.

[pele polo]

Heres the link (http://www.trackinfo.com/trakdocs/)

Click on Mardi Gras results/charts and choose a date

[mabred]

pete

what is the gimmick takeout

for mardigras and palm beach

i've tried to find out to no avail

thanks

mabred

[Al Gobbi]

I think Fair Grounds had a $3 WPS minimum in the 80's.

[MightBeSosa]

love the 9% takeout, but the $5 min is next to meaningless.

explain how reporting the payoffs 'higher' helps anyone, when the odds are the same.

[jeebus1083]

A $2 bettor that has to bet a $5 minimum now has to bet 2.5x more than they used to. It may help a small greyhound track increase their meager handles, but I don't know if it would work in the horse game. Generations of horseplayers grew up on $1/$2 minimum bets, and in an age of fractional wagering, I don't know nor do I think that INCREASING the minimum bet would be well received.

I remember about 7-8 years ago, Pompano Harness experimented with eliminating Show wagering, figuring that the Show money would simply feed into the Win/Place pools. It didn't work out as planned, and the experiment was short-lived. I'm all for new wagers and different ideas, but some things can't be changed overnight.

[onefast99]

You are missing the reason why takeout is so low, they don't pay purses anymore on over 98% of their races, the Stakes racing calendar includes 4 competitions this season only including the Futurity, the World Classic, Joe Ryan Memorial and the Hollywoodian ! Also the costs associated with running a dog track as opposed to running a horse track is very minimal. If they didn't drop the takeout to 9% dog racing may not have survived.

[andicap]

If they didn't drop the takeout to 9% dog racing may not have survived.

At this rate, in a few years, they may the same thing about horse racing.

[pele polo]

they don't pay purses anymore on over 98% of their races

This comment alone lets me know you haven't much education in this topic of discussion. The rest of your comments were also void of any truth or evidence.

They pay purses on ALL races. As does every legally sanctioned dog or horse track that I'm aware of. A grade A purse is worth roughly $1,200 - $1,500 and those dogs run twice a week. I know because I own dogs that run there. (Other tracks are paying twice that. Off topic but simply stressing it isn't all fleas and dog shit.)

Secondly, they run more than four stakes races. They're doing something right as they've been able to add to their stakes schedule unlike say Turfway Park.

Third, the operating costs are, I'm sure, are astronomically larger than you think.

[jdhanover]

How is this tracK (nice? a dump?) I may stop there one night next week when I am down at Gulfstream

[pele polo]

How is this tracK (nice? a dump?) I may stop there one night next week when I am down at Gulfstream

Far from a dump, always been a nice place but they've done some refurbishing during the off season. Also, like it's horse racing counterpart, its a racino.

It's just a mile up the road from Gulfstream and their post time of 5pm perfectly coincides with GP's nightcap. They run a 5pm performance and later performance... 8 or 9 races each.

[onefast99]

This comment alone lets me know you haven't much education in this topic of discussion. The rest of your comments were also void of any truth or evidence.

They pay purses on ALL races. As does every legally sanctioned dog or horse track that I'm aware of. A grade A purse is worth roughly $1,200 - $1,500 and those dogs run twice a week. I know because I own dogs that run there. (Other tracks are paying twice that. Off topic but simply stressing it isn't all fleas and dog shit.)

Secondly, they run more than four stakes races. They're doing something right as they've been able to add to their stakes schedule unlike say Turfway Park.

Third, the operating costs are, I'm sure, are astronomically larger than you think.
The majority of dogs are paid a fee of $35 to run, and before you start the "I have skin in this game bs" to assert your knowledge, you just showed your lack of it by saying the cost to run a dog race is "astronomically larger than you think"as compared to the thoroughbreds. That alone shows me your post is mainly about you and not the 9% takeout and pari mutuel payoffs you intended it to be about. Furthermore the place is a dump but beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

[pele polo]

Whatever you say...

[BreadandButter]

The majority of dogs are paid a fee of $35 to run

Where are you getting this information?

Dogs purses are based upon a point structure and paid out each week. Some of the bottom level tracks will only pay the owner's share for top grade.

[traynor]

What possible difference could it make to a bettor whether or not--and how much--purses are paid in greyhound races?

[BreadandButter]

What possible difference could it make to a bettor whether or not--and how much--purses are paid in greyhound races?

I don't know if this is a legitimate question or simply an attempt to bait?

A statement was made that the greyhounds are paid a flat fee of $35 to race. In any race - greyhounds, thoroughbreds, quarter horses, etc. if you were paid a flat fee to race what is the incentive to win?

Instead of being motivated to win you are then motivated to keep the animal sound enough to race regularly and collect a steady pay check. It's a lot easier and cheaper to have a greyhound that can run 4th twice a week in Grade D sprints vs. winning Grade A 3/8ths on occasion.

[lamboguy]

and there goes R-U-S-T-Y

[traynor]

I don't know if this is a legitimate question or simply an attempt to bait?

A statement was made that the greyhounds are paid a flat fee of $35 to race. In any race - greyhounds, thoroughbreds, quarter horses, etc. if you were paid a flat fee to race what is the incentive to win?

Instead of being motivated to win you are then motivated to keep the animal sound enough to race regularly and collect a steady pay check. It's a lot easier and cheaper to have a greyhound that can run 4th twice a week in Grade D sprints vs. winning Grade A 3/8ths on occasion.

The greyhounds are not paid to win. The kennel is paid. Unlike horse racing, there are very few techniques a kennel can use--other than normal care, feeding, exercise, etc.--to "prepare" an entry to win.

Kennels do not have the option of grade choice. If a greyhound wins, it goes up in grade. If it fails to perform competently against the new competition, it is dropped back to a lower grade. There is no kennel strategy involved--the greyhounds grade themselves according to how fast they run.

[jdhanover]

Far from a dump, always been a nice place but they've done some refurbishing during the off season. Also, like it's horse racing counterpart, its a racino.

It's just a mile up the road from Gulfstream and their post time of 5pm perfectly coincides with GP's nightcap. They run a 5pm performance and later performance... 8 or 9 races each.

Thx! I'll probably check it out one night

[BreadandButter]

[QUOTE=traynor]Unlike horse racing, there are very few techniques a kennel can use--other than normal care, feeding, exercise, etc.--to "prepare" an entry to win. /QUOTE]

I disagree. But, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[onefast99]

Thx! I'll probably check it out one night
The casino portion is really nice. The dog track looks like the sand lot field in Bad News Bears. Last year they had a Mardi Gras celebration and had live bands on the infield apron, the music was very loud and when the dogs came out for the post parade they were scared stiff. Just another example of how these animals are treated.

[BreadandButter]

The majority of dogs are paid a fee of $35 to run,

Still waiting on a response as to your source of this information.

[onefast99]

Still waiting on a response as to your source of this information.
GREYHOUND RACING EXPENSES

Price of Greyhound Puppy$500 to $40,000NGA fees - Registration$30Boarding$80 to $120 per month until pup is 17 months old (track-ready)State Racing License$25 to $75

GREYHOUND RACING INCOME

Grade A Purse large track$300 to $4000Grade A Purse medium track$100 to $300Owners Commission of Purse35%

[ronsmac]

How much money are their pools on average? Does anyone know?

[onefast99]

Here are a few articles on the decline of this game along with the brutal racing conditions these animals are subjected to before and after the races. Once you read through this you will understand the reasons for its decline.
http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/FLreport.pdf

[pele polo]

Oh my God ! Are you serious?

Did you really bring that Nazi propaganda on here? They're cut from the same cloth as those who want to end horse racing or do you want that too?

There isnt a single truth on that website. They're worse than HSUS (IRS tax fraud) & PETA (Terrorists per FBI) combined.

They take money from people & put it in their wallets, point blank. They don't find dogs home or give a single shyt about them. There's two people on the payroll, a husband & wife team who pay themselves six figures a year.

I didn't think you were that bright to begin with, now I'm for certain, either that or you're some mis-informed teenager posing as something else.

Go do some real research or better yet get lost.

[pele polo]

This thread was supposed to be about 9% takeout.

[onefast99]

Oh my God ! Are you serious?

Did you really bring that Nazi propaganda on here? They're cut from the same cloth as those who want to end horse racing or do you want that too?

There isnt a single truth on that website. They're worse than HSUS (IRS tax fraud) & PETA (Terrorists per FBI) combined.

They take money from people & put it in their wallets, point blank. They don't find dogs home or give a single shyt about them. There's two people on the payroll, a husband & wife team who pay themselves six figures a year.

I didn't think you were that bright to begin with, now I'm for certain, either that or you're some mis-informed teenager posing as something else.

Go do some real research or better yet get lost.
I brought up related topics to your original post. I never compared the thoroughbreds with the dogs, you did. And now you respond with insults. You proved my point, you came on here to boast about how you have skin in the game and that was your sole intent. You also didn't read the Greyhound report as it cited major declines in handle and attendance at Mardi Gras(Hollywood)as well as every other dog track in the state of Florida. Mardi Gras lost over $2.5m in 2011 on the dogs, based on preliminary numbers 2012 will show a loss of just under $2.6m. The 9% takeout is a last ditch effort to get the handle up, you can drop the takeout to 0% and it won't save dog racing. Maybe in the future you will do some research on the topic before posting on this forum it might make you look like you know what you are talking about!

[bitter]

it's been a while, but when i was in full degenerate mode and used to bet Wheeling Downs, it was minimum $3 perfectas

[pele polo]

I brought up related topics to your original post. I never compared the thoroughbreds with the dogs, you did. And now you respond with insults. You proved my point, you came on here to boast about how you have skin in the game and that was your sole intent. You also didn't read the Greyhound report as it cited major declines in handle and attendance at Mardi Gras(Hollywood)as well as every other dog track in the state of Florida. Mardi Gras lost over $2.5m in 2011 on the dogs, based on preliminary numbers 2012 will show a loss of just under $2.6m. The 9% takeout is a last ditch effort to get the handle up, you can drop the takeout to 0% and it won't save dog racing. Maybe in the future you will do some research on the topic before posting on this forum it might make you look like you know what you are talking about!

My sole intent was my first and original post. Only when you started making false statements did I say I own dogs. Accusing of me boasting because of that statement is absurd.

I won't continue to argue with ignorance. However, I'm sure you will try to further your clownish reputation.

[onefast99]

My sole intent was my first and original post. Only when you started making false statements did I say I own dogs. Accusing of me boasting because of that statement is absurd.

I won't continue to argue with ignorance. However, I'm sure you will try to further your clownish reputation.
You can't prove me wrong so you throw out insults instead. Who's the clown?

[BreadandButter]

they don't pay purses anymore on over 98% of their races,

The majority of dogs are paid a fee of $35 to run

Grade A Purse large track$300 to $4000Grade A Purse medium track$100 to $300Owners Commission of Purse35%


I've asked repeatedly your source of this information pertaining to your quote of "they don't pay purses anymore on over 98% of their races" and "the majority of dogs are paid a fee of $35 to run".

Then you reply with a vague undocumented source showing the range of greyhound purses. Is this purse structure for the 2% of races where they pay purses? :lol:

I'm speechless. :bang:

[onefast99]

I've asked repeatedly your source of this information pertaining to your quote of "they don't pay purses anymore on over 98% of their races" and "the majority of dogs are paid a fee of $35 to run".

Then you reply with a vague undocumented source showing the range of greyhound purses. Is this purse structure for the 2% of races where they pay purses? :lol:

I'm speechless. :bang:
The purse info can be looked at on this link. http://www.gra-america.org/buy_a_dog/how_to_start_racing.html
Mardi Gras(Hollywood)doesn't release its numbers to the general public you will have to ask polo pete who is an owner for that info.