Astounding figures for EBT

[JustRalph]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/23/Exclusive-Food-Stamp-Recipients-Outnumber-Populations-Of-24-States-Combined


Big business those food stamps

[boxcar]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/23/Exclusive-Food-Stamp-Recipients-Outnumber-Populations-Of-24-States-Combined


Big business those food stamps

See: It pays to advertise freebies! I can hardly wait until 50% of country is on the plantation, eating crumbs from the hand of its master.

Boxcar

[Dave Schwartz]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/15/Report-Underground-Food-Stamp-Market-Thrives-Online

Interesting follow up article.

REPORT: ILLEGAL UNDERGROUND FOOD STAMP MARKET THRIVES ONLINE

[boxcar]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/15/Report-Underground-Food-Stamp-Market-Thrives-Online

Interesting follow up article.

REPORT: ILLEGAL UNDERGROUND FOOD STAMP MARKET THRIVES ONLINE

Interesting on how politicians have kept their black-booted thugs (the IRS) out of the policing business for EBT recipients. Obama should hire 5,000 more agents to keep all the food stamp recipients honest. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Interesting on how politicians have kept their black-booted thugs (the IRS) out of the policing business for EBT recipients. Obama should hire 5,000 more agents to keep all the food stamp recipients honest. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Years ago I tried to get an investigation started on an outfit that was buying food stamps for .50 cents on the dollar. This was back when they traded actual coupons. I couldn't get the prosecutor interested because of some case law that stated that once the coupons changed hands they were considered "currency" and therefore the State had no right to regulate them. Only the Feds.

Even though the State issued the coupons, once they went into the hands of the users......the legal system and case law kicked in. Prosecutors only want to take on established case law when it will make them look like the good guys. End of story

[Robert Goren]

It is big business for Breitbart.com putting out propaganda for conservative posters. Anything liberal they have an article for the conservative poster to reference. It is greatest thing since Fox News for conservatives. Too bad only conservatives take anything published there seriously.

[Tom]

It is big business for Breitbart.com putting out propaganda for conservative posters. Anything liberal they have an article for the conservative poster to reference. It is greatest thing since Fox News for conservatives. Too bad only conservatives take anything published there seriously.

Can you prove them wrong on this?
Maybe the reality of it is they LSM is just not willing to report anything not on the liberal agenda, and you are confuse when faced with a truth.

[boxcar]

It is big business for Breitbart.com putting out propaganda for conservative posters. Anything liberal they have an article for the conservative poster to reference. It is greatest thing since Fox News for conservatives. Too bad only conservatives take anything published there seriously.

Why would a liberal ever want to print or believe the truth? It's obvious from the election results that most Americans rather believe lies. Must be since we've elected for the second time the biggest liar to have come down the pike in mucho decades.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Can you prove them wrong on this?

Therein lies the real Issue.

[NJ Stinks]

See: It pays to advertise freebies! I can hardly wait until 50% of country is on the plantation, eating crumbs from the hand of its master.

Boxcar

You got the crumbs part right. I read that the average monthly food stamp benefit was $133.26 per person in NJ in 2011. If somebody had 3 meals a day in a 30 day month last year, that's $1.48 per meal.

Nothing like being lucky enough to qualify for goverment help to eat. :rolleyes:

[hcap]

Total cost of the Snap Program in 2011......... $75,716.26

Multiply by say... at the most 10% in fraud......$7,571,000

You guys are bitching about 8 million when billions are wasted on corporate welfare and trillions are stashed overseas in tax havens.. Makes sense to me.

[hcap]

Total cost of the Snap Program in 2011......... $75,716.26

Multiply by say... at the most 10% in fraud......$7,571,000

You guys are bitching about 8 million when billions are wasted on corporate welfare and trillions are stashed overseas in tax havens.. Makes sense to me.Make that 75 billion with 750 million in fraud. Still for the people it helps. and the nation it is a good deal. Nearly 75 percent of SNAP participants are in families with children; more than one-quarter of participants are in households with seniors or people with disabilities.

Fraud is never acceptable, but the outrage is mis-directed.

[newtothegame]

Harry,
Here in lies the problem.....sure, it's only 10%. A Mere 75 Million (by your own estimates). Thats just in the SNAP program......
How many other "programs" are there in government where its a "mere" 10%???
I bet if you added all of that up, you could almost eliminate poverty in this country.
If I am not mistaken, I saw a number that looked like 1,361 billion.
10% of that would be 136 billion???
Seems we could do a lot with a "mere" 10%!!!

[Ocala Mike]

Newark Mayor Cory Booker's weighing in:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/29/nj-mayor-to-live-on-food-_0_n_2214165.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl11%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D240204

[boxcar]

You got the crumbs part right. I read that the average monthly food stamp benefit was $133.26 per person in NJ in 2011. If somebody had 3 meals a day in a 30 day month last year, that's $1.48 per meal.

Nothing like being lucky enough to qualify for goverment help to eat. :rolleyes:

Well, I have always maintained that Socialism will never, never, never make anyone wealthy. All it will do is spread the misery and make more people dependent upon the slave master. Robbing from the "rich" to pay the "poor" will never make the poor rich. Can you can bank on this! So, cry me a river, why don't you?

Boxcar

[hcap]

Reserve your outrage for those who game the system and who are not children, the poor and needy. Who waste and steal much more than a food stamp thief. Besides, after reading everyone complaints over the years, you gentlemen seem eager to end social programs. Misplaced twisted social Darwinism. Makers and takers bullshit.

http://www.progress.org/banneker/cw.html#news

[hcap]

Same website. Take the quiz on waste and fraud. I scored an 83.


http://www.progress.org/banneker/igt/cw/

[Actor]

Well, I have always maintained that Socialism will never, never, never make anyone wealthy.Duh!

I don't believe advocates of socialism say it will make anyone wealthy. Quite the contrary. The goal of socialism is equitable distribution of wealth. Having a class of "wealthy" people is counter to that goal.

[hcap]

Well, I have always maintained that Socialism will never, never, never make anyone wealthy.I guess you don't remember how Capitalism made people suffer before social conscience developed as a reaction to its free reign and reigned in it's abuses. Turns out those Robber Baron "Makers" were an awful bunch of "Takers" too. Socialism has it's problems, but so does your Gilded Idol you worship.

Ever read Sinclair Lewis?

[hcap]

Speaking of the abuses of Capitalism

Corporate profits hit all time high:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ku2UVcXTkW8/ULo7Dwx5bvI/AAAAAAAAJZY/9gCgzfUdacU/s400/corp%2Bprofits.jpg

Corporate profits as part of GDP also hits all time high:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qjzOBM7hlvo/ULo68AjwG1I/AAAAAAAAJZM/9rGkD_7DZh8/s400/corp%2Bprofits%2Bshare%2Bof%2BGDP.jpg

Corporate profits vs wages:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WaT1VglbeXk/ULo61f-XaxI/AAAAAAAAJZA/XONrF66QwhY/s400/profits%2Bwages.jpg

[boxcar]

Reserve your outrage for those who game the system and who are not children, the poor and needy. Who waste and steal much more than a food stamp thief. Besides, after reading everyone complaints over the years, you gentlemen seem eager to end social programs. Misplaced twisted social Darwinism. Makers and takers bullshit.

http://www.progress.org/banneker/cw.html#news

And the folks who administer these programs with our hard-earned money, they should escape our outrage!? The very fact that there is so much fraud and waste in government speaks poignantly to the moral corruption of our government. Some of us have a much better handle on the human condition and human nature and fully expect many will try to game the system. How come elected officials don't know this? They certainly don't seem to care very much about it?

Tell me, 'cap, when you go fill up at the gas station, do you waste any drops of the expensive gas that your buy?? My guess is that you don't because it's your money you're spending. And herein is the problem. When someone else has control over our resources (money), they really don't care very much how many "drops" fall to the ground and get wasted.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Duh!

I don't believe advocates of socialism say it will make anyone wealthy. Quite the contrary. The goal of socialism is equitable distribution of wealth. Having a class of "wealthy" people is counter to that goal.

Marxist believe in a two class society. The elite (rich) and the poor. The loathe the middle class. Karl Marx didn't have very many nice things to say about the middle class!

The real goal of of socialism to distribute misery more fairly.

Boxcar
P.S. In case you haven't noticed, the middle class in this country is shrinking in size quickly.

[JustRalph]

Duh!

I don't believe advocates of socialism say it will make anyone wealthy. Quite the contrary. The goal of socialism is equitable distribution of wealth. Having a class of "wealthy" people is counter to that goal.


Oh how you mis-understand. You really think that after practicing abject tyranny on an entire generation that the Socialist leaders would then crawl down into the gutter with the riff raff? :lol:

Pure comedy.

[PaceAdvantage]

Speaking of the abuses of Capitalism

Corporate profits hit all time high:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ku2UVcXTkW8/ULo7Dwx5bvI/AAAAAAAAJZY/9gCgzfUdacU/s400/corp%2Bprofits.jpg

Corporate profits as part of GDP also hits all time high:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qjzOBM7hlvo/ULo68AjwG1I/AAAAAAAAJZM/9rGkD_7DZh8/s400/corp%2Bprofits%2Bshare%2Bof%2BGDP.jpg

Corporate profits vs wages:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WaT1VglbeXk/ULo61f-XaxI/AAAAAAAAJZA/XONrF66QwhY/s400/profits%2Bwages.jpgI guess that Obama ain't all you cracked him up to be.... :lol:

[hcap]

I guess that Obama ain't all you cracked him up to be.... :lol:I post how CEO's after having their asses saved by Obama mostly as a byproduct of keeping the country from going off a real cliff, you blame Obama for the wealth inequality that started years ago and was helped along bu Bush Jr and the rethugs. Makes a lot of sense.

[PaceAdvantage]

I post how CEO's after having their asses saved by Obama mostly as a byproduct of keeping the country from going off a real cliff, you blame Obama for the wealth inequality that started years ago and was helped along bu Bush Jr and the rethugs. Makes a lot of sense.All I see is you stating ("Speaking of the abuses of Capitalism") that corporate profits at an all-time high are a bad thing. I don't see that as a bad thing...I see it as a good thing.

Thus, I am actually giving credit, in a way, to Obama, but at the same time, pointing out to you that he is apparently not the savior you'd like him to be, considering he is presiding over this "evil all-time high corporate money making."

[hcap]

And the folks who administer these programs with our hard-earned money, they should escape our outrage!? The very fact that there is so much fraud and waste in government speaks poignantly to the moral corruption of our government. Some of us have a much better handle on the human condition and human nature and fully expect many will try to game the system. How come elected officials don't know this? They certainly don't seem to care very much about it?

Tell me, 'cap, when you go fill up at the gas station, do you waste any drops of the expensive gas that your buy?? My guess is that you don't because it's your money you're spending. And herein is the problem. When someone else has control over our resources (money), they really don't care very much how many "drops" fall to the ground and get wasted.

I don't drive anymore.

Skin in the game is one of your exaggerated rightie talking points.
Many government programs do quite well. Medicare for instance has a much lower overhead and has done a much better job of controlling costs than private health insurance. Ain't nothing wrong with profit, but not at the expense of the sick.

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/

Medicare Has Controlled Costs Better Than Private Insurance
.

According to CMS, for common benefits, Medicare spending rose by an average of 4.3 percent each year between 1997 and 2009, while private insurance premiums grew at a rate of 6.5 percent per year. (See Table 13)
According to a calculation by the National Academy for Social Insurance, if spending on Medicare rose at the same rate as private insurance premiums during that period, Medicare would have cost an additional $114 billion (or 31.7 percent).
The CBO explicitly stated that its data on relative cost growth should not be used to make the argument that Goodman and Saving make, writing that the relatively low growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid “should not be interpreted as meaning that Medicare or Medicaid is less able to control spending than private insurers.” Goodman and Saving mistakenly suggest that the growth rate of private insurance is the same as the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid; however, as CBO points out, the growth rate of all health care expenditures other than Medicare and Medicaid includes not just spending by private insurers, but also government programs and out-of-pocket costs paid by the uninsured.
The CBO has predicted that the rising cost of private insurance will continue to outstrip Medicare for the next 30 years. The private insurance equivalent of Medicare would cost almost 40 percent more in 2022 for a typical 65-year old.

Medicare Has Lower Administrative Costs Than Private Plans.
.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.
Insurance industry-funded studies exclude private plans’ marketing costs and profits from their calculation of administrative costs. Even so, Medicare’s overhead is dramatically lower.
Medicare administrative cost figures include the collection of Medicare taxes, fraud and abuse controls, and building costs.

So-called “competition” in the private health care market has driven costs up.
.

In most local markets, providers have monopoly power. Consequently, private insurers lack the bargaining power to contain prices.
In most areas, two or three dominant insurers dominate the regional market, limit competition and make it extremely difficult if not impossible for new insurers to enter the marketplace and stimulate price competition.
Medicare Advantage, which enrolls seniors in private health plans, has failed to deliver care more efficiently than traditional fee-for-service Medicare. Both the CBO and the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), the commission which advises congress on Medicare’s finances, have calculated that Medicare Advantage plans covering the same care as traditional Medicare cost 12 percent more.
Karen Ignagni, who heads America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), the insurance industry’s trade association, has admitted that private plans cannot bargain down provider costs and has asked Washington to intervene.

Medicare Is Publicly Accountable, Private Plans Are Not
.................................................. ..............................................


And there are studies that show a single payer vastly reduces administrative spending. It would also help if the ability to bargain with large drug companies was allowed as the VA does. A lpt of skin in the game leads to extorting the sick. Hey but you are a mistaken worshipper of the profit motive as the end all and be all

[Actor]

Oh how you mis-understand. You really think that after practicing abject tyranny on an entire generation that the Socialist leaders would then crawl down into the gutter with the riff raff? :lol:

Pure comedy.You miss my point entirely, which is that the argument "Socialism will never, never, never make anyone wealthy" falls on deaf ears when the audience is composed of people advocating socialism. Their response to such an objection would be "good!" Pointing out this (to me) obvious fact falls short of advocating socialism.

Boxcar's statement is equivalent to someone saying "Top fuel dragsters will never, never, never have good fuel economy." Duh. People who build such cars don't care about fuel economy.

[Actor]

Oh how you mis-understand. You really think that after practicing abject tyranny on an entire generation that the Socialist leaders would then crawl down into the gutter with the riff raff? :lol:

Pure comedy.Please clarify. When you say "after practicing abject tyranny on an entire generation" are you saying that that is the only way to achieve a socialist economy, or are you referring to a historical event?

[Actor]

Marxist believe in a two class society. The elite (rich) and the poor. The loathe the middle class. Karl Marx didn't have very many nice things to say about the middle class!Marxists are communists, not socialists. Communism and socialism are not the same thing. For that matter, Marxism and communism are not the same thing.

The real goal of of socialism to distribute misery more fairly.OK. That seems a worthwhile goal.

In case you haven't noticed, the middle class in this country is shrinking in size quickly.And that's Bush's fault. :bang:

[boxcar]

You miss my point entirely, which is that the argument "Socialism will never, never, never make anyone wealthy" falls on deaf ears when the audience is composed of people advocating socialism. Their response to such an objection would be "good!" Pointing out this (to me) obvious fact falls short of advocating socialism.

Boxcar's statement is equivalent to someone saying "Top fuel dragsters will never, never, never have good fuel economy." Duh. People who build such cars don't care about fuel economy.

But sadly, the state who has stooped so low to advertise social welfare programs over the airwaves, doesn't quite see it that way. The state must think getting people on the dole is the greatest invention since the can opener, otherwise why would they waste even more money by advertising? But since you agree with me that welfare and food stamps and the rest of it will not appreciably improve people's lives (morally or financially), then maybe it's high time the government starts thinking in terms of teaching people how to fish instead of wasting my hard-earned bucks buying fish for others with a system that is fraught with fraud.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I guess you don't remember how Capitalism made people suffer before social conscience developed as a reaction to its free reign and reigned in it's abuses. Turns out those Robber Baron "Makers" were an awful bunch of "Takers" too. Socialism has it's problems, but so does your Gilded Idol you worship.

Ever read Sinclair Lewis?

Oh, so now its the State's turn to punish and make successful people suffer? So, now it's the state's turn to develop new generations of Takers?

To say that "Socialism has it's (sic) problems" is a gross understatement. Socialism is in Epic Fail mode. Governments all over the world are running out of money to support their utopian programs.

And I don't know who you're talking about when you say my "Gilded Idol". Unlike you, I don't worship at the altar of Self. You look at your idol every time you stand in front of a mirror.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I don't drive anymore.

Skin in the game is one of your exaggerated rightie talking points.
Many government programs do quite well. Medicare for instance has a much lower overhead and has done a much better job of controlling costs than private health insurance. Ain't nothing wrong with profit, but not at the expense of the sick.

Forget about Medicare. We were talking specifically about "welfare" type programs -- SNAP, for example. Or the one that advertises free cellphones because everyone is entitled to stay in touch.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Please clarify. When you say "after practicing abject tyranny on an entire generation" are you saying that that is the only way to achieve a socialist economy, or are you referring to a historical event?

Both :lol:

[hcap]

Oh, so now its the State's turn to punish and make successful people suffer? So, now it's the state's turn to develop new generations of Takers?

To say that "Socialism has it's (sic) problems" is a gross understatement. Socialism is in Epic Fail mode. Governments all over the world are running out of money to support their utopian programs.

And I don't know who you're talking about when you say my "Gilded Idol". Unlike you, I don't worship at the altar of Self. You look at your idol every time you stand in front of a mirror.

You said this
And the folks who administer these programs with our hard-earned money, they should escape our outrage!? The very fact that there is so much fraud and waste in government speaks poignantly to the moral corruption of our government. Some of us have a much better handle on the human condition and human nature and fully expect many will try to game the system. How come elected officials don't know this? They certainly don't seem to care very much about it?The last I heard, Medicare was a government administered program. Snap has less fraud as a percentage of operating costs than the banks that sent us into the deep hole you blame on entitlements due to working citizens and the needy

BTW, Those same bankers screwed up the world's economy. Socialism is not why some countries are failing, it is those same bastions of capitalism, the bankers that are to blame.

[boxcar]

You said this The last I heard, Medicare was a government administered program. Snap has less fraud as a percentage of operating costs than the banks that sent us into the deep hole you blame on entitlements due to working citizens and the needy

BTW, Those same bankers screwed up the world's economy. Socialism is not why some countries are failing, it is those same bastions of capitalism, the bankers that are to blame.

Oh, I don't have any trouble pinning any tails on the banksters of the world. They are a huge part of the problem. In fact, it is these same banksters that are propagating and fostering socialism because they love lending to governments so that they can implement social programs. They know the governments are going to make good on their loans because they can always tax the citizens. The banksters, therefore, feel pretty secure in lending to governments, especially those in the industrialized world. But what you don't want to see is that it takes two to tango. Governments in the world are just as much to blame as their greedy loan-sharking counterparts. (Yes, both entities are GREEDY!) They feed off one another. And this is precisely why the entire world is rushing headlong into a "day of reckoning".

Boxcar

[hcap]

Bonkers about bankers boxcar

So let me see if I understand your latest. Bankers and other financial orgs are Socialist enablers helping us reach that day of reckoning that much sooner? Well Mr Sanctimonious, in case you weren't aware, lack of regulations that you would call socialistic provided free reign for capitalists to line their own pockets. They loaned us nothing. They were the "Makers" and also the "Takers". Greed and avarice are the pitfalls of a free market as well as the motivation. Transparency and the Invisible Hand of the 17th and 18th century don't work today without laws and rules to hold capitalists to their more honest angels.

[boxcar]

Bonkers about bankers boxcar

So let me see if I understand your latest. Bankers and other financial orgs are Socialist enablers helping us reach that day of reckoning that much sooner? Well Mr Sanctimonious, in case you weren't aware, lack of regulations that you would call socialistic provided free reign for capitalists to line their own pockets. They loaned us nothing. They were the "Makers" and also the "Takers". Greed and avarice are the pitfalls of a free market as well as the motivation. Transparency and the Invisible Hand of the 17th and 18th century don't work today without laws and rules to hold capitalists to their more honest angels.

Well, let me see if I understand your latest drivel: You expect greedy, power-hungry, corrupt, in-it-for-themselves politicians to police the banksters who are lending the government the money they need to bankroll their social welfare programs? :lol: :lol: In the real world, Mr. Einstein, this would be called biting off your nose to spite your face. :lol: :lol: You really believe that a socialist government is going to create draconian rules and regs to reign in the evil banksters to whom the same politicians are beholding and dependent upon for the financing of their social programs? :bang:

You are once incredibly naive person. You think, generally, that there are two classes of people who are more or less above reproach: The state and scientists -- another symbiotic relationship, yet, i.e. you tell us what we want to hear and we'll make it possible for you to keep a roof over your head. :rolleyes:

Boxcar