Winter Turf Racing?

[MickJ26]

Aqueduct is still carding turf races. We've already had our first snow and it's basically been winter here for the last two weeks or so. I know the condition book calls for turf races for as long as the weather permits. My question is what's the difference in the turf course now as opposed to February?

[PaceAdvantage]

It really hasn't gotten THAT cold...it's flirted with the freezing mark around here, but generally it's been in the mid 40s to 50s...

I would say the next heavy rain and/or temps falling below freezing for a couple of nights will see the end of turf racing...

There's no rain in the forecast this week and temps are supposed to be in the mid 50s, so expect turf racing to continue for a while...

[wisconsin]

It really hasn't gotten THAT cold...it's flirted with the freezing mark around here, but generally it's been in the mid 40s to 50s...

I would say the next heavy rain and/or temps falling below freezing for a couple of nights will see the end of turf racing...

There's no rain in the forecast this week and temps are supposed to be in the mid 50s, so expect turf racing to continue for a while...


Aqueduct, Laurel and Hawthorne always card turf into or near December.....weather permitting.

[Milkshaker]

I believe the danger would be the damaging or killing off of the root system of the turf courses.

[MaTH716]

I believe the danger would be the damaging or killing off of the root system of the turf courses.
I would think that it's more a matter of the ground freezing and being a hazard to the horses.

[castaway01]

I believe the danger would be the damaging or killing off of the root system of the turf courses.

Some tracks go late into the fall with turf racing and come back each spring with no problems, so I'll assume they know what they're doing and have hardy grass.

For those who prefer some southern turf racing, we'll soon have Fair Grounds, Tampa, and Gulfstream going.

[onefast99]

Aqueduct is still carding turf races. We've already had our first snow and it's basically been winter here for the last two weeks or so. I know the condition book calls for turf races for as long as the weather permits. My question is what's the difference in the turf course now as opposed to February?
It looks as if December 8th will be the last carded turf races. The difference in February and Decembers turf is simple, the ground in February is usually frozen thus making it a hazardous surface to even attempt to race on.

[MickJ26]

Definitely some great input, guys. The freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw would create some uneven racing surfaces.

[thespaah]

Aqueduct is still carding turf races. We've already had our first snow and it's basically been winter here for the last two weeks or so. I know the condition book calls for turf races for as long as the weather permits. My question is what's the difference in the turf course now as opposed to February?
In the the northern climes, cool season grasses( fescue, rye, bluegrass, bentgrass) are used for turf courses, golf courses and athletic fields. The key is the soil temperature and the depth of the root system.
Once the soil temperature drops below a certain level, the grass plant will go dormant. Once that occurs the root system can no longer repair itself. When this condition exists, damage to the grass plant and root system can be permanent.
A track super should have a good handle on agronomy. He should know as a general rule of thumb the first frost ends the growing season. At that point plants start their dormancy. Also time to close the turf course.
Oh, just because there has been an accumulating snowfall does not necessarily mean the soil temp had dropped below growing season levels.
That snow in the Northeast was followed by unseasonable warm temps.

[Bennie]

I'm hoping the turf season lasts a little longer around here as that is where I have been having my best success. After Aqueduct, Laurel, Churchill and Hawthorne close their turf courses I only have access to Gulfstream and whatever California track is running for the data I need to play. With Gulstream just starting up, I will wait for a couple of weeks for acclaimation before playing.
I used to play Tampa and would look forward to the meet, but the last 2 meets have been hellish to me so now it's just look over the card, maybe find a play or 2, if not so be it. I "love" to play but don't "need" to play. There is always tomorrow or next weekend.
One of the other reasons NY is still running turf races is probably due to the fact that so many were "rained-off" the turf is still pretty healthy, unlike the "dirt" track I see at Calder.

[Valuist]

I think Cisco Torres is gonna have a solid meet at GP. This is no kid; has spent bulk of his career in the Midwest. He's versatile and will win some races at this meet.

[the little guy]

I think Cisco Torres is gonna have a solid meet at GP. This is no kid; has spent bulk of his career in the Midwest. He's versatile and will win some races at this meet.


You said he is going to have a " solid meet " and then you said he is going to win " some races. " Kind of different opinions....no?

I would be shocked if he has a " solid meet " given what I have seen so far and the competition he faces....unless you think a solid meet is seven wins.

[Valuist]

You said he is going to have a " solid meet " and then you said he is going to win " some races. " Kind of different opinions....no?

I would be shocked if he has a " solid meet " given what I have seen so far and the competition he faces....unless you think a solid meet is seven wins.

I'm talking more in terms of win percentage. He's not going to get the number of mounts to be in the top 10. But he's under the radar, and bettors shouldn't dismiss him because he isn't a household name. He's 2 for 9 so far, but I believe one of those wins was on Romacaca in a stake.

[the little guy]

I'm talking more in terms of win percentage. He's not going to get the number of mounts to be in the top 10. But he's under the radar, and bettors shouldn't dismiss him because he isn't a household name. He's 2 for 9 so far, but I believe one of those wins was on Romacaca in a stake.

He's not 2 for 9 after Sunday, I believe.

What is the percentage that would make his meet solid?

[the little guy]

I'm talking more in terms of win percentage. He's not going to get the number of mounts to be in the top 10. But he's under the radar, and bettors shouldn't dismiss him because he isn't a household name. He's 2 for 9 so far, but I believe one of those wins was on Romacaca in a stake.

He was 0 for 5, with none hitting the board, on Sunday. His odds were 3:2, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, and 17:1.

[Valuist]

He was 0 for 5, with none hitting the board, on Sunday. His odds were 3:2, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, and 17:1.

I've got Friday's GP DRF that I downloaded yesterday. According to that, he's 2 for 9. I think he can win 15%, especially if he can ride a few horses for Calabrese.

[the little guy]

I've got Friday's GP DRF that I downloaded yesterday. According to that, he's 2 for 9. I think he can win 15%, especially if he can ride a few horses for Calabrese.

Once again, that isn't including Sunday, at the very least.

He has next to no chance to win at a 15% clip with over 150 mounts. 10% would be a miracle unless he starts riding all of Calabrese's horses and they return to winning at a 40% rate. Good luck.

[thespaah]

I'm talking more in terms of win percentage. He's not going to get the number of mounts to be in the top 10. But he's under the radar, and bettors shouldn't dismiss him because he isn't a household name. He's 2 for 9 so far, but I believe one of those wins was on Romacaca in a stake.
2 for 14..ITM 21% with a neg ROI of 46%
Ouch...But it's early.
I have seen this before. Decent riders not bringing a great percentage then getting a live mount at high odds and booting them home.

[thespaah]

He was 0 for 5, with none hitting the board, on Sunday. His odds were 3:2, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, and 17:1.
Wow! That is ice cold.

[Valuist]

So he had a bad day. Big deal. I saw A-Rod go 0 for 4 in a Class A Midwest League game. The Niners got destroyed the other day. Is it fair to judge any athlete strictly on one day?

[the little guy]

So he had a bad day. Big deal. I saw A-Rod go 0 for 4 in a Class A Midwest League game. The Niners got destroyed the other day. Is it fair to judge any athlete strictly on one day?

His results Sunday are irrelevent ( though his riding isn't ).

Good luck. I will be absolutely shocked if you are correct. It's horse racing. Most of us are wrong most of the time.

[Valuist]

His results Sunday are irrelevent ( though his riding isn't ).

Good luck. I will be absolutely shocked if you are correct. It's horse racing. Most of us are wrong most of the time.

I could very well be wrong. I consider jockeys a minor factor in the handicapping process so I'm certainly not married to any horses he rides. But I'm not going to toss a horse just because he's up. If I like the mount he has, I won't hesistate to back it.

[Valuist]

One other point; Hawthorne has had its horses "trapped" on the grounds all meet due to the equine herpes virus. That will be ending soon and that should mean an influx of horses from barns like Midwest T-breds, Chris Block, Wayne Catalano and Jimmy Divito. A guy like Torres has ridden for all of them; could mean more live mounts.