DATA NEEDED

[Rxlawyer]

Hi:

I am looking to find old data to run a few statistical tests. I just need basic files that can be put into a database. I need past performances and results. As far as past performances, I only need the basics such as track,distance, surface, times (broken down as much as possible), beaten lengths, etc.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Rxlawyer :)

[HUSKER55]

subscribe to HDW not that expensive and they have a huge database.

[Rxlawyer]

Thank you! :)

[Capper Al]

subscribe to HDW not that expensive and they have a huge database.

I have been using BRIS Multicaps data. How does HDW data compare? What is the advantage with HDW data over BRIS. Isn't BRIS the main source of input for HDW data? If not what is the source for HDW data?

Thanks

[JustRalph]

http://www.brisnet.com/php/archive_first.php


HDW is much better than BRIS

I've used both.

The Bris data has to be massaged.

It's valuable and I use it for my everyday data, but only because I play very little anymore.

If you're serious you use HDW

[cj]

I have been using BRIS Multicaps data. How does HDW data compare? What is the advantage with HDW data over BRIS. Isn't BRIS the main source of input for HDW data? If not what is the source for HDW data?

Thanks

Equibase is the source of all data.

[Capper Al]

http://www.brisnet.com/php/archive_first.php


HDW is much better than BRIS

I've used both.

The Bris data has to be massaged.

It's valuable and I use it for my everyday data, but only because I play very little anymore.

If you're serious you use HDW


Is there a data definition description anywhere like BRIS has for its data files?

[OverlayHunter]

Capper Al,

If I'm not mistaken, HDW data is always associated with a particular program (HTR, HSH, JCapper, etc.) and I believe the file structures are unique to each program and can be gotten from the program authors.

[JustRalph]

Capper Al,

If I'm not mistaken, HDW data is always associated with a particular program (HTR, HSH, JCapper, etc.) and I believe the file structures are unique to each program and can be gotten from the program authors.

Yep, and more

http://www.horsedata.com/

[Speed Figure]

Is there a data definition description anywhere like BRIS has for its data files?
You can get a sample look of how the JCapper pp's look. It is basically the same laid out as bris. http://www.jcapper.com/messageboard/reports/JCapperPPS_PHA2_10102011.html

[raybo]

Is there a data definition description anywhere like BRIS has for its data files?

Jeff mapped the HDW data to the Brisnet format for use in the AllData Project. So, the .jcp files will work like Bris files, they also have .xrd results files, that work like the Bris .xrd files.

PM Jeff and he can give you the low-down.

[windoor]

I have been using HDW for the last two years.

If you play everyday, at multiple tracks, its the best deal I have found.
Nothing but good things to say about them.

Windoor

[raybo]

I think you'll find that if you use pace and speed figs, JCapper/HDW figs are probably a bit better than Bris, and the JCapper files have a few more items in them than Bris (while occupying fields that are not used by Bris data and still having the same 1435 field structure). But regarding the raw data, they are about the same. Any software that will use Bris single file data should also be able to use JCapper/HDW data.

[Capper Al]

A record layout for HDW like BRIS displays on their website for Multicaps is what I'm looking for. Here's BRIS':

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=mcstruct

Thanks

[raybo]

A record layout for HDW like BRIS displays on their website for Multicaps is what I'm looking for. Here's BRIS':

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=mcstruct

Thanks

The layout would be the same, except JCapper/HDW files have data in some fields that are blank in the Bris files.

[DeltaLover]

I use Bris and I am very happy with their quality.

I dont use Jcapper because based in what I was told it requirese custom software to download the data instead of a standard ftp client (which I used for bris). More than this I was also told that Jcapper do not have prime power and several other figures that all my models relying upon.

[Jeff P]

I use Bris and I am very happy with their quality.

I dont use Jcapper because based in what I was told it requires custom software to download the data instead of a standard ftp client (which I used for bris). True... To the best of my knowledge HDW does not offer ftp access their file server.

That said, I did write a fairly robust client app/file download tool that's integrated into all versions of JCapper. After launching it... using the Synch to Disc button: I count 5 mouse clicks to perform the following tasks: Scan the hard drive to generate a list of files already downloaded from HDW, scan the HDW file server for a list of files available for download, compare the two lists, generate a list of available files that have not yet been downloaded, and finally - download the needed new files to the hard drive. (Once you've done it a few times it's pretty easy.)

More than this I was also told that Jcapper do not have prime power and several other figures that all my models relying upon.
Aha...

JCapper generates a set of unique numbers that cover each of the major handicapping areas: Early Pace, Late Pace, Ability from Speed Figs, Class, Form, abilities/tendencies of the horse’s human connections, probability assessment, and value. The software takes numbers from each of those areas and generates its own power ratings that actually stack up pretty well in large sample database tests vs. Brisnet Prime Power.

For anyone interested, here is a link to a text file that shows YTD 2012 numbers for a handful of factors generated by the FREE HDW enabled JCapper Silver program:
http://www.jcapper.com/messageboard/reports/impact_study_hdw_2012ytd.txt


About the files and the software...

When you download data files from the HDW site the files that (initially) arrive on your hard drive are in a custom binary format. The binary format is unique for each software vendor. (HTR doesn’t handle HSH or JCapper files – HSH doesn’t handle HTR or JCapper files – and JCapper doesn’t handle HTR or HSH files, etc.)

That said, the HDW enabled version of JCapper Silver is FREE and one of the things the software does is enable the user to read in HDW binary race files and export comma delimited text past performance data files (1435 data fields per horse record – file extension .JCP) onto the user’s hard drive.

The user also has the ability through settings persisted in JCapper to partially customize the data items inserted into a .JCP file. The file format is nearly identical to that of the Brisnet MCP Multicaps and/or DRF Single Format Data File. The speed and pace figs in a .JCP file are produced by HDW. Instead of Brisnet Prime Power you will find HDW PSR (Projected Speed Rating) in field #251 of a .JCP file. Also, the names for riders and trainers that are inserted into .JCP files come directly from Equibase and some of them differ slightly from Brisnet rider and trainer names. .JCP files are compatible with quite a few (but not all) third party apps and spreadsheets.

For those who are interested in doing their own database work, the .JCP file format, the HDW Text Chart Results file format, the formats for the other JCapper text file exports, and the format for starter history data written to JCapper Access tables are published in the private area of the JCapper message board where they are always available to JCapper customers. (Sample files and file format documentation available upon request.)

Hope I got most of that out in a way that makes sense.


-jp

.

[raybo]

Jeff,

I forgot to mention that the Silver software is free as a daily or monthly unlimited downloads customer.

Basically what I was trying to get across was that the .jcp files and the Bris single file format files can be used in the same spreadsheet, and the data is in basically the same fields. Although, one really shouldn't mix the files together while doing research because, although the same data types are in the same fields, that data sometimes is calculated differently, ie: pace and speed figures, etc..

Some of the "AllData Project" users are using JCapper/HDW data, as it appears in the .jcp and .xrd files, without any problems, and all AllData workbooks were created to use Brisnet/TSN data files.

You did a very good job of mapping the JCapper/HDW data to Brisnet's file format!

[DeltaLover]

That said, I did write a fairly robust client app/file download tool that's integrated into all versions of JCapper. After launching it... using the Synch to Disc button: I count 5 mouse clicks to perform the following tasks: Scan the hard drive to generate a list of files already downloaded from HDW, scan the HDW file server for a list of files available for download, compare the two lists, generate a list of available files that have not yet been downloaded, and finally - download the needed new files to the hard drive. (Once you've done it a few times it's pretty easy.)


What is the reason to write a custom application when you can follow a standard approach of an ftp server which can be used either by standard command line ftp clients or more fancy GUI like Filezilla for example? By adding this layer you handicap linux or mac users who they will need to find ways around your custom GUI.

Why do I need five clicks at all? I would expect the whole process to be able to be completely automated by a script running without any user interaction and point and clicks..

Your GUI layer could be provided as an option for users who like it and prefer this type of interactivity but by no means should be a requirement...



JCapper generates a set of unique numbers that cover each of the major handicapping areas: Early Pace, Late Pace, Ability from Speed Figs, Class, Form, abilities/tendencies of the horse’s human connections, probability assessment, and value


I would have no objection to switch assuming that you were providing me with data matching my bris historical data allowing a comparison between them.

Having thousands of races using bris figures I can only switch to a different provider if I can maintain the same volume of data without having to repay and of course if I am convinced that the new data are equally good as the old. Otherwise I will have to remain loyal to bris for the rest of my handicapping career...

[ubercapper]

Hi:

I am looking to find old data to run a few statistical tests. I just need basic files that can be put into a database. I need past performances and results. As far as past performances, I only need the basics such as track,distance, surface, times (broken down as much as possible), beaten lengths, etc.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Rxlawyer :)

TrackMaster also can provide old data as well as data going forward.

[Jeff P]

What is the reason to write a custom application when you can follow a standard approach of an ftp server which can be used either by standard command line ftp clients or more fancy GUI like Filezilla for example? By adding this layer you handicap linux or mac users who they will need to find ways around your custom GUI.

Why do I need five clicks at all? I would expect the whole process to be able to be completely automated by a script running without any user interaction and point and clicks..

Your GUI layer could be provided as an option for users who like it and prefer this type of interactivity but by no means should be a requirement..I completely understand where you are coming from. If I were in your shoes - operating my own app in a non Windows environment – and if I were happy with the performance of that app - and if my only real area of interest might be in exploring an alternate source of data files – I’d probably make the same decision that you did.

That said, one of the (many) projects on my list of things to do in my spare time is to fully enable JCapper’s HDW File Download Tool to recognize and respond to switches read from the DOS command line.

For example, the module currently sits in the c:\JCapper\Exe folder, the file name for the module is HDWReader.exe – and the following DOS command can be used to launch the current module:

C:\JCapper\Exe\HDWReader.exe

However, under the current design, there is only one way for the user to make the module perform desired tasks: The user must click the elements on the module’s user interface.

Now, consider the following DOS command:

C:\JCapper\Exe\HDWReader.exe /01

What if the module could be programmed to recognize "01" (without the quotes) as a valid command? What if, for the sake of argument. 01 caused the module to download all files available for download on the HDW file server that the user did not already have on the local machine hard drive?

One day in the not too distant future, instead of using mouse clicks, an alternate way of operating JCapper’s File Download Tool will be to 1.) Launch it from the command line and 2.) Control exactly what it does using switches.


I would have no objection to switch assuming that you were providing me with data matching my bris historical data allowing a comparison between them.

Having thousands of races using bris figures I can only switch to a different provider if I can maintain the same volume of data without having to repay and of course if I am convinced that the new data are equally good as the old. Otherwise I will have to remain loyal to bris for the rest of my handicapping career... Understood – and again I can see where you are coming from.

Historical data can be purchased (but it certainly isn’t cheap.) Equibase takes the contracts it has with licensed data resellers Brisnet, DRF, HDW, and Track Master very seriously. I am not allowed to give away significant blocks of historical data under any circumstances – not even as a way of generating incremental new sales.

Good luck with your project (and at the windows.)



-jp

.

[DeltaLover]

Jeff,

in my case I certainly do not need the full data. Only your custom numbers using mapping to races using track code, date, race number and starter's program number. Is this part of the IP owned by equibase as well? Such a thing is hard to believe!

thx