Classic breeding

[Cholly]

It was called The Breeder's Cup Classic, but the breeding industry may not want to talk too much about the results. The stallions of the horses who filled out the superfecta: E Dubai (stud fee $9,000), Macho Uno ($15,000), Flatter ($20,000), and Full Mandate ($2,500).

That group includes the winners of all of 2012's Grade I dirt races at the "classic" distance of ten furlongs open to 4 year olds. No Bernadini's, no Smart Strike's, no Distorted Humor's. So why pay more?

[Track Phantom]

... No Bernadini's, no Smart Strike's, no Distorted Humor's. So why pay more?

....a needle is the great equalizer, isn't it?

No need to pay more when you can purchase a $1,200 runner and give it to Jamie Ness, Thomas Amoss or any of the other trainers who work miracles.

[PaceAdvantage]

....a needle is the great equalizer, isn't it?Hogwash...if indeed you are implying the results of the classic were due to a needle.

[Steve R]

It was called The Breeder's Cup Classic, but the breeding industry may not want to talk too much about the results. The stallions of the horses who filled out the superfecta: E Dubai (stud fee $9,000), Macho Uno ($15,000), Flatter ($20,000), and Full Mandate ($2,500).

That group includes the winners of all of 2012's Grade I dirt races at the "classic" distance of ten furlongs open to 4 year olds. No Bernadini's, no Smart Strike's, no Distorted Humor's. So why pay more?
I don't know why you left out the 10f dirt races for older fillies and mares or, for that matter, 10f races for older horses on synthetic surfaces. Regardless, since 2005 there have been only 50 G1s in North America at 10f not on grass. If you exclude synthetics and races for fillies and mares there are only 26 which is hardly a large enough sample to draw conclusions. The sires of those 26 race winners include those shown below. Their average stud fee was $66K. In the long run you apparently do get what you pay for.

A.P. INDY ($150K)
ARCH ($40K)
AWESOME AGAIN ($50K)
BIRDSTONE ($10K)
CANDY STRIPES ($30K)
DISTORTED HUMOR ($100K)
EL PRADO ($75K)
FLATTER ($20K)
FULL MANDATE ($2.5K)
GIANT'S CAUSEWAY ($85K)
KRIS S. ($150K)
SAINT BALLADO ($125K)
SLEW CITY SLEW ($2.5K)
SMART STRIKE ($85K)
SPEIGHTSTOWN ($50K)
UNBRIDLED'S SONG ($76.5K)
WILD AGAIN ($75K)

[Cholly]

You left our Ft. Larned's sire,E Dubai, but that is an impressive bit of research. Add to your point by considering the sires of the four "bargain" sires I listed: Mr. Prospector, Holy Bull, A.P. Indy, and A.P. Indy.

Consider my bubble burst.

[Steve R]

You left our Ft. Larned's sire,E Dubai, but that is an impressive bit of research. Add to your point by considering the sires of the four "bargain" sires I listed: Mr. Prospector, Holy Bull, A.P. Indy, and A.P. Indy.

Consider my bubble burst.
Sorry about the Fort Larned oversight but I hadn't yet updated my records from this past weekend. E Dubai is at $9K and I see in today's online edition of The Blood-Horse that Awesome Again has been raised to $75K.

[Cholly]

Sorry about the Fort Larned oversight but I hadn't yet updated my records from this past weekend. E Dubai is at $9K and I see in today's online edition of The Blood-Horse that Awesome Again has been raised to $75K.
You mention 26 GI, 10F, dirt races for males, but only list 17 sires. Which ones were multiple contributors?

And, if you don't mind my asking, did your compilation include races restricted to 3yo's?

[Steve R]

You mention 26 GI, 10F, dirt races for males, but only list 17 sires. Which ones were multiple contributors?

And, if you don't mind my asking, did your compilation include races restricted to 3yo's?
Sires of the winners of multiple North American G1 races include Candy Stripes, El Prado, Flatter, Slew City Slew and Smart Strike. In every case, the multiple G1s were won by the same horse. IOW, over this time frame, no sire has gotten more than one winner of a 10f G1 race on dirt for older horses. The multiple G1 winners are Invasor (Candy Stripes), Borrego (El Prado), Flat Out (Flatter), Lava Man (Slew City Slew) and Curlin (Smart Strike). No races exclusively for 3yo colts or fillies are included.

[Track Phantom]

Hogwash...if indeed you are implying the results of the classic were due to a needle.

You find that theory so proposterous? In today's racing? C'mon.... While I'm not actually saying that is the case or not, I'm far from able to totally discount it.

[PaceAdvantage]

You find that theory so proposterous? In today's racing? C'mon.... While I'm not actually saying that is the case or not, I'm far from able to totally discount it.It's about right up there with saying Obama only won because the vote was fixed.

[Track Phantom]

It's about right up there with saying Obama only won because the vote was fixed.

Not even close. Not sure there is a vast history of political elections being fixed. However, there are volumes of data that support there is much cheating in racing. That, even you, cannot refute.

[jorcus99]

It was called The Breeder's Cup Classic, but the breeding industry may not want to talk too much about the results. The stallions of the horses who filled out the superfecta: E Dubai (stud fee $9,000), Macho Uno ($15,000), Flatter ($20,000), and Full Mandate ($2,500).

That group includes the winners of all of 2012's Grade I dirt races at the "classic" distance of ten furlongs open to 4 year olds. No Bernadini's, no Smart Strike's, no Distorted Humor's. So why pay more?

Keep in mind that Smart Strike and Distorted Humor once stood for much lower prices. As the offspring won, the prices went up. Same should happen to a some of these.

[sammy the sage]

And many reputable breeder's believe the DAM side contributes MORE to the stamina side of things...

I for one believe it's an individual deal...can be 90% to 10% breeding ...to ACTUAL training can influence...as well AS FEED, supplements and as mentioned even a needle or two.

[Broad Brush]

And many reputable breeder's believe the DAM side contributes MORE to the stamina side of things...

I for one believe it's an individual deal...can be 90% to 10% breeding ...to ACTUAL training can influence...as well AS FEED, supplements and as mentioned even a needle or two.

Great Point!!! I have cashed on this angle for years.

Who was Fort Larned's Dam Sire??

Oh Yes: Broad Brush...Thanks again old friend.