Fog Better System

[Binder]

I hope I can explain this so it makes sense

First , I want to concratulate Que for winning
Sunday's pick 4 contest. Great Job And to everyone who
came up with the # 9 in the first leg (Race 6)
I was one of the rest who didn't. The thing that I
have trouble with is the Fog line with no
internal fractions
I was wondering if anybody knows why in 2004
the Past Performances we all depend on can't use
some better method to clock the Internal fractions?
I was thinking of some kind of chip
like they use for EZPass to collect tolls
If all the horses had a small chip uniformally placed
on them, It could truely be used like the "Fly on the nose of the horse" that breaks the beam that trips the timer . But it could be a more reliable
method. Maybe even one that can pass through fog. and maybe eliminate
"about turf races" which also have no fractions
I use The Sartin Methodology Program
Validator 2
And I download Trackmaster PP's into it.
I have no problem with either the program or the
the Trackmaster PP's but I just wonder why If we are paying for
this data. Why can they just decide not to give some information
If you click this link I have caps of the Trackmaster /Sartin
Past Performance for the # 9 horse which won Race 6
http://www.bindfold.com/pages/3/index.htm Any Ideas?
Thanks

[BillW]

Binder,

While I have no direct knowlege, I would guess that EZ-Pass is a proximity system. That is, It doesn't know exactly where you are, just that you are near and it has the opportunity to take money from you. (Maybe it could be applied to horse racing ... by management :eek: ).

A track timing system would probably end up being some sort of vision system (camera/computer) sync'ed to the timer. There are systems being prototyped now, but I've never seen a technical description, so I am not familiar with the technology being used.

Why don't they do it? Because there is no business case for spending the money to do so at present. If someone can come out with a system that is cheaper to buy and maintain than the present system (and be more accurate as a by-product) then you will see it happen.

Bill

[Derek2U]

Why re-invent the wheel. hong kong's racecourse has the
GSP timing system after 2 years of tryouts & its the future.
no more beaten lengths; all horses are timed at EVERY point.
hehe .. leave it 2 the asians.

[BillW]

Originally posted by Derek2U
Why re-invent the wheel. hong kong's racecourse has the
GSP timing system after 2 years of tryouts & its the future.
no more beaten lengths; all horses are timed at EVERY point.
hehe .. leave it 2 the asians.

Derek,

Do you have any idea where I can find a description of this system ? I would have guessed that a GPS fix would be too slow. Possibly they use an interpolation algorithm of some sort?

Bill

[Derek2U]

i know it took them ~~2 years + a lotta science ... i would think
google & sha tin racecourse etc should do it Bill.

[sq764]

Bill, they only mention it briefly in this article.. But good overall article on hong kong racing


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3693327&p1=0

[Pace Cap'n]

Here is a recent article on the new timing system at the Hong Kong racecourse:

http://www.hongkongjockeyclub.com/english/news/news_200312126248.htm

Note how the fractional leaders fare at the wire.

[BillW]

Thanks guys,

It appears as the term "GPS" was used as a simplistic (and incorrect) description of a system that is purely land based. It appears to work in a similar manner to GPS only with one transmitter and multiple receivers (as opposed to multiple satellite transmitters and one receiver in the GPS case).

This system could/would be much faster than I imagine GPS to be ... but beacon signals @ 80 milliseconds still does not jive with the necessary accuracy without interpolation. I think at this resolution, though interpolation would be fine ( a horse @ 60 feet per second travels 5 feet in between beacon "beeps").

So horse #1 beeps at 3 feet before the quarter pole and at 2 feet after ... total time equals

# of beeps x 80 milliseconds + 3/5 of 80 milliseconds.

Better than a chart caller.

Bill

BTW: The 1/1000 second precision used in the article to describe the measured times is a bit misleading, probably on purpose to ascribe a greater accuracy to the system than actually exists. Our present system is more accurate for the lead horse, if he cooperates and stays on the lead.

[JustRalph]

The trainers are against it...........it was mentioned that it would be worn during workouts and they threw a fit. I got an email from someone at TVG a while back that said it would never be used because the racing commissions might want to make permanent the wearing of the gps device on the horse so they can track them on the backstretch......the vet....etc.....
the trainers were afraid it would do away with "unpublished" workouts. Unless some racing commissions get together and make them do it...........it ain't gonna happen.

This article was published in Nov 2004 in the Lexington Herald Leader




Posted on Sun, Nov. 24, 2002

HORSE RACING NOTEBOOK
GPS technology tested to enhance handicapping
By Maryjean Wall
HERALD-LEADER RACING WRITER

Racing's future came by satellite to Keeneland last week and looked like -- NASCAR?

You bet. The lead horse careened at 35.6 mph around the "fourth" turn. Three horses rounded a virtual Keeneland course as dots on laptop screens, individually timed and separated by the right amount of lengths.

Puts a whole new slant on pace handicapping, doesn't it? Tracking horses by GPS -- global positioning systems -- is the way that race charts of the future will be mapped. It's also the way races might be shown to viewers in the future.

Auto racing fans will be excused for yawning here, for the technology already exists in that sport.

But horse racing still clings to the old-fashioned way: tracking race participants through the eyes of a trained observer known as a chart caller. The caller watches the race live from the press box, dictating observations to an assistant or into a tape recorder. The caller estimates the running positions of horses at designated poles while also estimating the lengths separating them.

The system is not without flaws, as you can imagine. The marvel always has been that chart callers are able to do as well as they do. Chart calling is an art even if it is destined to become arcane.

In this post-modern phase of the space age, outsiders probably would be shocked to learn that horse racing still does not benefit from available technology. The difference is like typewriters to computers. There is a huge gap.

Horse racing is working on catching up, however. Sportvision, a broadcast enhancement company participating with NASCAR, is also working with horse racing with Equibase, the supplier of data to the horse industry.

The two companies are hopeful that horse racing will be able to offer patrons similar enhancements to those available in NASCAR on its pay-per-view channels. Enhancements could include a channel to focus on an individual horse during a race or a channel to identify horses with names and arrows as they race in the pack. These enhancements would move in real time.

Equibase, Sportvision and InCompass, which like Equibase is a subsidiary of The Jockey Club, were at Keeneland last week for testing during morning workouts. The technology has been tested several times at Keeneland and, according to Equibase President John Ertmann, "the technology and economics are to the point where they're getting more viable."

A problem unique to horse racing has been reducing the weight of transmitter equipment worn by the rider. Horse racing, unlike auto racing, is a weight-sensitive sport.

Antenna components are contained in a vest worn by the rider. The vest currently weighs slightly more than 1 pound. The final model will be smaller than the testing model and will go under a jockey's racing silks.

Last Wednesday, testing on several horses included three from Jeff Thornbury's stable. Information that showed up in real time on laptop computers included the distance traveled by each horse, the individual times of the horses, the distance they raced off the rail and the distance separating each horse from the other.

Trainer John Ward, who also has supplied horses for GPS testing, gave the technology two thumbs up and said that "it should give the modern handicapper who has a feel for technology some exact science for handicapping a race."

[ranchwest]

Whew! There for a minute, I was afraid this was a thread on how to pick when Sylvester Carmouche would hide his horse in the fog.

[Binder]

Thanks everyone
Very interesting stuff.
I sure wish they would use a better system
The GPS technology seems like it has a chance
I really hope so
I paid for a bottle of Soda at lunch today and Its
says its 20 fl.oz
And I'm pretty sure that its 20fl oz. If the soda maker
only filled the bottle 3/4 of the way and said
"Thats what we want to sell you so live with it"
how long would they last
I just wish Horse Racing would change . And give its customers what they want And give them what they think they are getting.
I think its unfair that they don't

[BillW]

Originally posted by Binder
Thanks everyone
Very interesting stuff.
I sure wish they would use a better system
The GPS technology seems like it has a chance
I really hope so
I paid for a bottle of Soda at lunch today and Its
says its 20 fl.oz
And I'm pretty sure that its 20fl oz. If the soda maker
only filled the bottle 3/4 of the way and said
"Thats what we want to sell you so live with it"
how long would they last
I just wish Horse Racing would change . And give its customers what they want And give them what they think they are getting.
I think its unfair that they don't

Binder, don't forget that the soda maker takes that 20 oz. bottle, removes the sugar (and the labor to put it in there) and the bubbles (and the labor to put those in there :)) and sells it as pure spring water for 3X the price. No one questions where the bubbles went . :D

Bill

[Binder]

BillW

ha ha :)

And the caffeine too