The Sad State of Horse Racing Media and This Board

[menifee]

A few days before the biggest days in the sport and the major media publication is down and unable to get back. Completely understandable that they went down because of the storm, but unreal that they still are not able to get their servers back up three days after the storm.

You come to this Board to get some information and the conversations about the Breeders Cup (selections, handicapping, workout reports) are lacking. Rather, the posts that come up on a search for recent posts are regarding unemployment, Benghazigate, ADP job numbers, the White Minnesota Timberwolves, election odds, looting, James Harden, Romneisa, CNNN.

Remarkably someone created an interesting post about the Breeders Cup Marathon and whether Eldaafer could win the race. That got 5 posts. A tribute to Snickers and how it beats other candy bars got 7 posts.

Don't get me wrong some of these topics are interesting and deserve conversation (the Snickers conversation is very interesting if you are 5 years old), but is not the primary purpose of this Board to be about horse racing?

[PaceAdvantage]

Late night is when the off-topic'ers are out en mass...if you glance down the list a bit to before midnight, you'll see the horse racing topics...the old timer racing guys turn in early... :sleeping: :lol:

I've been going over the two BC cards just now, and you have to admit, these are some fairly wide open events with not much "star power."

So you can see why enthusiasm might be lacking just a bit, whereas in the past few years you had Zenyatta and Goldikova grabbing a lot of the discussion limelight.

I think this year's BC is an edition where we focus less on marquee names and more on making money on wide open races.

[JustRalph]

I think it reflects the state of the sport

Btw, just posted my picks at

www.justralph.com

And I think the two days are pretty weak.

[redshift1]

Thanks for the post.

[Hoofhearted]

I think that all dedicated horseracing forums (fora ?) worldwide are suffering a fall-off in post-counts. In my experience anyway.
Now, whether this is due to a declining interest in horseracing itself ( and the increasing following of other sports such as NFL, golf, or soccer etc) ...........or if it is a reflection of the increasing irrelevance of forums in general in the "social network" age, I honestly don't know.
I suspect that it is a combination of both. I know that I personally nowadays incline more towards the likes of Twitter and specialist horseracing blogs than I used to. Back in the day, horseracing forums were my first port of call, and I used to post a lot more than I do today.

Just my pennys'worth. :)

[Tom]

Don't get me wrong some of these topics are interesting and deserve conversation (the Snickers conversation is very interesting if you are 5 years old), but is not the primary purpose of this Board to be about horse racing?


So start a thread.
OH, you did, but it is not about any of the races.

[Bennie]

I myself just got electricity back last night around 8:30. Have had no phone,land line or cell and no internet access, cable or wifi.
Was waiting until the official post draw before even trying to handicap the races but since the power went off Monday night around 8:00 have not been able to do anything but remove the 90 foot pine tree laying in our back yard, repair the shingles blown off our roof, drive around aimlessly looking for some place that has power from generators so we can get supplies and trying to stay warm during the night.
I love the sport of horse racing and have been looking forward to the Breeders Cup for months but the last few days, there have been much more important things for me to worry about. I am sure there are many others who post here who are going through the same problems but with the love of the sport and the challenge of handicapping the Breeders, they will find a way to post their thoughts before the races are run, me being one of those.

[depalma113]

A few days before the biggest days in the sport and the major media publication is down and unable to get back. Completely understandable that they went down because of the storm, but unreal that they still are not able to get their servers back up three days after the storm.


Have you every been through a natural disaster?

If the DRF was down for a couple of weeks, you might be able to complain. Three days after, no one should be complaining, especially not about a horseracing publication. There are hospitals and other vital agencies that still do not have power.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I've heard of Snickers.

[bigmack]

In the grand scheme of things, Snickers are vastly more significant than a Breeders Cup Marathon. It's just another race, where Snickers have panache.

Snickers. :kiss:

[OntheRail]

I think the Distaff is the most exciting race on the card... then the Juvenile Races and maybe the Mile after that. If Royal Delta runs the Classic ( if still option.. power been out since Monday) it could spice that race up but will weaken the Distaff even more with defection of In Lingerie. But yes not really a WOW of year we've been checked hard several times this year starting with I'll Have Another. Will watch but not a all in year.

[Relwob Owner]

A few days before the biggest days in the sport and the major media publication is down and unable to get back. Completely understandable that they went down because of the storm, but unreal that they still are not able to get their servers back up three days after the storm.

You come to this Board to get some information and the conversations about the Breeders Cup (selections, handicapping, workout reports) are lacking. Rather, the posts that come up on a search for recent posts are regarding unemployment, Benghazigate, ADP job numbers, the White Minnesota Timberwolves, election odds, looting, James Harden, Romneisa, CNNN.

Remarkably someone created an interesting post about the Breeders Cup Marathon and whether Eldaafer could win the race. That got 5 posts. A tribute to Snickers and how it beats other candy bars got 7 posts.

Don't get me wrong some of these topics are interesting and deserve conversation (the Snickers conversation is very interesting if you are 5 years old), but is not the primary purpose of this Board to be about horse racing?


I would agree with you about the ineptness of drf.com.


However, I thought the Snickers thread was fun and some other people did too. I think it is far better than yet another thread, like this lamenting the downfall of horse racing, a concept that has been beat to death IMO.

If the amount and content of the other threads frustrates you, I would ask why you don't just ignore them and start some racing threads of your own, if you haven't already.

[Robert Fischer]

DRF is hardley major-media.

How about there is NOTHING on the front page of ESPN.

They have an old player complaining about Ditka for the 2nd straight day, they have petty legal issues for some Cowboy named "Tyron Smith", but NOTHING about the Breeders Cup.

You have to navigate to "more sports" then "middle column/ 2nd from bottom/ horse racing". Zero impulse bait on the first page.

[Valuist]

I think I've seen one commercial for the Breeders Cup and I don't think I heard the mention of any individual horse. No Wise Dan; no Game on Dude. Usually they overhype one horse and that hasn't been the case this year.

[cj's dad]

FWIW, I lost interest in the game when IHA was scratched from the Belmont.

I've bet one day since, may or may not play BC either day, probably not.

[thaskalos]

It cannot be denied that there is declining interest in horse racing-related matters, here at PA and elsewhere. But it is not a surprising occurrance...having been predicted ahead of time by myself...as well as a few other observant members of this site.

I call it the "Zenyatta Effect"...

The mighty mare carried the sport on her back during some very turbulent times...as only the truly great horses can.

There is an aspect of true greatness in race horses which carries far beyond the racetrack...into the very fabric of the game itself; and when these truly great horses are gone...the game is reduced to something not really worth talking about -- for the vast majority of the fans at least.

Sorta like watching the Chicago Bulls playing without D-Rose. :ThmbDown:

[the little guy]

It cannot be denied that there is declining interest in horse racing-related matters, here at PA and elsewhere. But it is not a surprising occurrance...having been predicted ahead of time by myself...as well as a few other observant members of this site.

I call it the "Zenyatta Effect"...

The mighty mare carried the sport on her back during some very turbulent times...as only the truly great horses can.

There is an aspect of true greatness in race horses which carries far beyond the racetrack...into the very fabric of the game itself; and when these truly great horses are gone...the game is reduced to something not really worth talking about -- for the vast majority of the fans at least.

Sorta like watching the Chicago Bulls playing without D-Rose. :ThmbDown:

The saddest thing is that you ( probably ) don't blush when you post crap like this.

[thaskalos]

The saddest thing is that you ( probably ) don't blush when you post crap like this.

Sorry TLG...I thought the thread needed an injection of a little humor.

I guess I was wrong...again.

Nice to hear from you anyway...

[the little guy]

Sorry TLG...I thought the thread needed an injection of a little humor.

I guess I was wrong...again.

Nice to hear from you anyway...

Given your posting history, it wasn't completely surprising I thought you were serious.

[Hoofhearted]

The saddest thing is that you ( probably ) don't blush when you post crap like this.
What a nasty little one-liner ! :confused:
I for one thought Thaskalos' post was insightful and worthy of consideration ( unlike your quite useless and bitter effort).

[FantasticDan]

I've been trying hard to convince myself to look at the BC races and make some bets on Saturday. The jury is still out. :sleeping:

[Robert Goren]

The saddest thing is that you ( probably ) don't blush when you post crap like this. Another head in the sand by somebody inside the industry. So sad. Each year thousands of bettors quite playing the races for one reason or another(including death) and most are not being replaced. The industry has turned a blind eye to this for years. Super horses like Z and RA come along every few years and bring in some new fans for a while, but necessarily new bettors. When the horses are retired, the fans disappear as well. Right now the handle is being driven by very large bettors getting large rebates. Soon that those bettors will all that will be left. Even a poker game doesn't last very long when the only players sitting in are sharks. Horse racing is rapidly becoming that sharks only poker game.

[castaway01]

As far as the DRF, a major natural disaster hit the area their offices are in. It's awful timing, but I don't think they can be blamed at all for such a (hopefully) once-in-a-lifetime occurrence.

As far as the Breeders Cup, I have also read next to nothing about it. Then again, I live in New Jersey, where we're currently more concerned with getting our power back on, cleaning up downed trees, pumping out flooded basements, or seeing if any of the shore communities remain standing.

I don't believe interest in horse racing is any lower than it was last year, or will be next year. The lack of big-name horses in the BC to write about is the main reason for a lack of mainstream articles, but that's nothing new. Most fringe sports only get covered on ESPN when something or someone "big" is involved. The races look as bettable and entertaining as they are most years, and the prices should be good if you can hit them. It's always a fun day (er, two days), so just enjoy it.

[Ca9]

Another head in the sand by somebody inside the industry. So sad. Each year thousands of bettors quite playing the races for one reason or another(including death) and most are not being replaced. The industry has turned a blind eye to this for years. Super horses like Z and RA come along every few years and bring in some new fans for a while, but necessarily new bettors. When the horses are retired, the fans disappear as well. Right now the handle is being driven by very large bettors getting large rebates. Soon that those bettors will all that will be left. Even a poker game doesn't last very long when the only players sitting in are sharks. Horse racing is rapidly becoming that sharks only poker game.

Another head in the Hurricane Sandy,

He lives in the city.

[Dahoss9698]

Another head in the Hurricane Sandy,

He lives in the city.
Hey Casino!

Did you ever get around to making that donation?

[Dahoss9698]

FWIW, I lost interest in the game when IHA was scratched from the Belmont.

The equine version of the day the music died.

I kid....sort of. But you lost interest in the game because a hurt horse scratched? Did you stop watching football when Ray Lewis got hurt?

[kingfin66]

In the grand scheme of things, Snickers are vastly more significant than a Breeders Cup Marathon. It's just another race, where Snickers have panache.

Snickers. :kiss:

The OP was basically speaking to you directly.

[1st time lasix]

I enjoy racing as much as ever...the overall beauty, the efforts/skills of the connections, the handicapping challenge, and the thrill of exceptional athletic performance. I truly look forward to the big days.... {Triple Crown, Haskell, Travers, Pacific Classic, Florida Derby, Breeders Cup} and the better short meets {Keenland, Saratoga, Del Mar} Having said that....I think it is clear to most observers that racing has numerous tough "issues" that it never seems to properly address. Would be nice if all jurisdictions were run by a czar for awhile that had the best interest of the sport in mind. Unfortunately the players who put the money through the windows are generally treated like second class citizens at most venues... and we all know about high takeouts...poor media promotion....drugs....cheaters, etc etc. Posters on these types of forums tend to vent their frustrations. I find that sucessful horse players also tend to be individuals that question and act differently than normal convention. Unfortunately....most casual gamblers gravitate to sports wagering and poker which they consider more main stream and basically easier. Winning at this game is very very hard because the hurdle is so high, there is a learning curve and patience is required. ...maybe that is part of the reason i do like it. I also enjoy low handicap golf, chess, bridge, and the stock market. Guess I need to be humbled every day! ha!

[Steve R]

It cannot be denied that there is declining interest in horse racing-related matters, here at PA and elsewhere. But it is not a surprising occurrance...having been predicted ahead of time by myself...as well as a few other observant members of this site.

I call it the "Zenyatta Effect"...

The mighty mare carried the sport on her back during some very turbulent times...as only the truly great horses can.

There is an aspect of true greatness in race horses which carries far beyond the racetrack...into the very fabric of the game itself; and when these truly great horses are gone...the game is reduced to something not really worth talking about -- for the vast majority of the fans at least.

Sorta like watching the Chicago Bulls playing without D-Rose. :ThmbDown:
I think you are overestimating the impact of racing's so-called stars. I'm hosting about a dozen friends on Saturday to watch the BC. All are college-educated and middle aged (with several a bit older and retired). They aren't racing fans but they are aware of and occasionally watch the BC and TC races. It's a couple of years on, but not a single one knew anything about Zenyatta and only a couple "think" they had even heard of her. I'm afraid this whole notion of individual horses creating a broad based, long-term interest in the game is nonsense. Secretariat didn't do it. Neither did Ruffian, Affirmed or Seattle Slew. Racing isn't in decline because there are no "stars". It is in decline because it is no longer competitive with emerging TV-ready sports and alternative gambling options.

[appistappis]

I think you are overestimating the impact of racing's so-called stars. I'm hosting about a dozen friends on Saturday to watch the BC. All are college-educated and middle aged (with several a bit older and retired). They aren't racing fans but they are aware of and occasionally watch the BC and TC races. It's a couple of years on, but not a single one knew anything about Zenyatta and only a couple "think" they had even heard of her. I'm afraid this whole notion of individual horses creating a broad based, long-term interest in the game is nonsense. Secretariat didn't do it. Neither did Ruffian, Affirmed or Seattle Slew. Racing isn't in decline because there are no "stars". It is in decline because it is no longer competitive with emerging TV-ready sports and alternative gambling options.


great post and right on the money.

[the little guy]

What a nasty little one-liner ! :confused:
I for one thought Thaskalos' post was insightful and worthy of consideration ( unlike your quite useless and bitter effort).


Here is exactly the reason reasonable people stopped posting on message boards...junk like this from someone who named him(or her)self Who Farted.

It's so funny that we all stopped laughing ( and posting seriously ) a long time ago.

[thaskalos]

I think you are overestimating the impact of racing's so-called stars. I'm hosting about a dozen friends on Saturday to watch the BC. All are college-educated and middle aged (with several a bit older and retired). They aren't racing fans but they are aware of and occasionally watch the BC and TC races. It's a couple of years on, but not a single one knew anything about Zenyatta and only a couple "think" they had even heard of her. I'm afraid this whole notion of individual horses creating a broad based, long-term interest in the game is nonsense. Secretariat didn't do it. Neither did Ruffian, Affirmed or Seattle Slew. Racing isn't in decline because there are no "stars". It is in decline because it is no longer competitive with emerging TV-ready sports and alternative gambling options.
You misunderstood me, Steve...I was not talking about the "general" decline of this sport. I was talking about the noticeable decline in horse racing-related conversations on sites such as this.

Of course these "great" horses cannot possibly have any long-lasting affect or influence on the sport; the sport's problems are much bigger than that.

But great horses lead to stimulating discussions and vigorous debates on message boards...and that's what I thought was the point being made by the OP of this thread.

[bigmack]

Big fan of a. Serling, my enthusiasm for the game was shattered after learning from DanG he refers to some fields as garbage and entrants as bums.

[JohnGalt1]

I remember the good old days when the Breeder's Cup races was available to 100% of the country on broadcast TV.

With 40-60% who have access to NBC Sport Network, some casual sports and racing fans are unable to see them.

Personally, I now just have basic cable, so I will watch the replays after the races are over Friday and Saturday.

[Greyfox]

I was talking about the noticeable decline in horse racing-related conversations on sites such as this.

.

Yeah. Someone started a Handicappers Corner awhile back and discussion was informative and enlightening. However, that poster , who had the power to veto submissions on the thread, seemed to lose his enthusiasm for the project within weeks. Alas... and now we get a thread such as this bemoaning the State of Discussions here. :rolleyes:

[turninforhome10]

Here is exactly the reason reasonable people stopped posting on message boards...junk like this from someone who named him(or her)self Who Farted.

It's so funny that we all stopped laughing ( and posting seriously ) a long time ago.

Have not posted in months and just for the reasons above. People don't want discussion, they want to be "in your face" right. To bad as I just started as assistant trainer for a large east coast outfit and would have shared insight on the training part.

[Greyfox]

Have not posted in months and just for the reasons above. People don't want discussion, they want to be "in your face" right. To bad as I just started as assistant trainer for a large east coast outfit and would have shared insight on the training part.

Hate to say it....but that sounds ....like what we used to say....as kids.

It's the "too bad for you guys card."

[thaskalos]

Yeah. Someone started a Handicappers Corner awhile back and discussion was informative and enlightening. However, that poster , who had the power to veto submissions on the thread, seemed to lose his enthusiasm for the project within weeks. Alas... and now we get a thread such as this bemoaning the State of Discussions here. :rolleyes:

You know something, Greyfox...you might be right; part of this might indeed be my fault.

It could be that I haven't contributed my share to the horse racing discussions here. If that's the case...then I apologize.

[turninforhome10]

Hate to say it....but that sounds ....like what we used to say....as kids.

It's the "too bad for you guys card."


Really, when have you posted a thread with over 8000 hits over a 3 month period predicting the winner of over 80% of the races you played and gave out a derby winner 2 months in advance. This proves my point. And no more time for the nonsense. It just becomes a shooting gallery. Enjoy your racing guys. It is too bad that the old "steamers" have to kill any chance of finding a place that can actually educate a fan without the Springer tactics.

[Greyfox]

Really, when have you posted a thread with over 8000 hits over a 3 month period predicting the winner of over 80% of the races you played and gave out a derby winner 2 months in advance. This proves my point. And no more time for the nonsense. It just becomes a shooting gallery. Enjoy your racing guys. It is too bad that the old "steamers" have to kill any chance of finding a place that can actually educate a fan without the Springer tactics.

Not a Springer tactic. Just a comment about that previous specific pouty post.

As I handicap my own wagers I never ever checked any of your posts over that 3 month period.

With respect to discussing horse racing - picking and betting- I agree with Thaskalos - those of us on the board that still engage in the game are all responsible, if the quality has indeed gone down.

[cj's dad]

The equine version of the day the music died.

I kid....sort of. But you lost interest in the game because a hurt horse scratched? Did you stop watching football when Ray Lewis got hurt?

I realized after many years of being involved as a fans that the "game" has elements involved that , at this point, I want to take a break from.

[Track Phantom]

Here's a reality that anyone who cares about the state of horse racing needs to understand. The game is unpopular and will remain so (even declining as older players die off) as long as there isn't a consolidated effort to make a change.

It's actually quite simple. Racing has livlier and more immediately gratifiying competition (casino's, online poker, etc.) and the game of horse racing is a difficult one to understand for casual players. While there may be creative ways to attack this problem, it has to be done in unison (all racing jurisdictions rolling up to a governing body) and that will never happen.

So, in the end, racing will battle boxing, cricket and bass fishing for 133rd place on the relevance list and we'll be left watching maggot vultures like Jamie Ness pick at the carcass until it is gone.

Fun stuff....

[JustRalph]

FWIW, I lost interest in the game when IHA was scratched from the Belmont.

I've bet one day since, may or may not play BC either day, probably not.

Tell the whole story..........you made so much money that one day, you're still partying :lol: :lol:

[devilsbag]

I saw the PPs for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Sprint and double checked to make sure it wasn't a $50,000 overnight stake. There are some decent names over the two days and the Distaff is intriguing. Credit them for moving the Mile. The Classic has no luster, dude.

Today, the usual group of big pharma trainers make it hard to root for so many of these horses. Meanwhile, Durkin and NBC gave the event a boost which is gone. Friday is a weird day. I think they should keep it to one card, even if it's twelve races. Slice the purse of the two juvenile turf races and run them on a Friday with the marathon, and put the meat and potatoes on Saturday. Maybe it's the Juvenile Sprint that needs to go. Regardless, trying to make two powerhouse days doesn't seem to be working, and most of us are working on the Friday.

Back to the DRF. Before the hurricane, last Saturday, they had already taken down the classic PDF option for the preview PPs. For what reason, I don't know, and neither did the customer service lady. They only offered Formulator PPs for the low low price of $9. In my mind, it was a weird business decision.

[JustRalph]

You are so friggin out of your mind sometime it's almost unbelievable.

Andy has done more to promote this game in one day than just about anybody. In fact I am the first guy to bitch when some "insider" is out of bounds. But calling Andy up like you did is total utter bullshit.

If you ever exposed yourself ( like I did the last few years) to the people who bust their asses to promote NY racing, at the level in which Andy and many others on this board ( and their wives in some cases) do, you would realize that you sir are so far off base you should be medicated. In fact, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and being familiar with the fact that you are ill, maybe what you say should be taken with a grain of salt.

I am no fan of the crap that's gone on at NYRA, but I feel for those like Andy and the Steve Byk's of the world who are constantly working to promote the sport but are undermined by the powers that be. This includes some damn fine people in marketing and others (I met mostly due to this board) who constantly swim upstream in an environment that must tax their very personal resolve every day. When you get a look at how hard some of these guys work to keep this sport alive you might keep your "head in the sand" yourself.

I am as disillusioned and pissed as anybody about where the game has gone, but you need to think twice before you start pointing fingers around here.

There are some true villains in this game. But Andy isn't one of them.

Another head in the sand by somebody inside the industry. So sad. Each year thousands of bettors quite playing the races for one reason or another(including death) and most are not being replaced. The industry has turned a blind eye to this for years. Super horses like Z and RA come along every few years and bring in some new fans for a while, but necessarily new bettors. When the horses are retired, the fans disappear as well. Right now the handle is being driven by very large bettors getting large rebates. Soon that those bettors will all that will be left. Even a poker game doesn't last very long when the only players sitting in are sharks. Horse racing is rapidly becoming that sharks only poker game.

[Dahoss9698]

Well said Ralph.

[Tom]

As far as the DRF, a major natural disaster hit the area their offices are in. It's awful timing, but I don't think they can be blamed at all for such a (hopefully) once-in-a-lifetime occurrence.

No, not true. They run a web-based business. The sell products - at inflated prices - to people who need web access to use them. Part of responsible business is to have contingency plans to protect your customers. DRF obviously doesn't care about theirs. Back up plans are mandatory in my world - contingency is not only required, it is audited by third parties if you wish to be certified.

And it is not a nice in a lifetime event. It happen to DRF in 2001, 9/11. They had a wake up call then and failed to put anything in place to prevent a re-occurrence. What they did back then was literally screw anyone who had an unlimited subscription by not extending them to make of for the weeks of no data. That deal could have been excused, had they reacted responsibly, but they did not. I was an unlimited annual plan subscribe up until then and stopped that. I have only bought a few big day cards ever since. Now even that will change.

The problem, Thask, with this game, as I see it is everyone has a frigging excuse for their failures. No one steps up to the plate and does damn thing about it.

[Dahoss9698]

I'm trying to figure out how their customers aren't being protected here. They are doing everything in their power (pun not intended) to get information to people, but how do you have a back up plan for something like what what happened in the city?

There are literally thousands without power still. What would you like them to do Tom? Isn't a hurricane a pretty good excuse?

[the little guy]

I'm confused. DRF did have a back-up plan, and got the link out to its customers pretty quickly. I got three e-mails from them with the link and had no problem accessing their pps.

Believe me, I'm not saying this to defend DRF, I'm just confused. It seems to me they actually were well on top of this.

[Relwob Owner]

I'm confused. DRF did have a back-up plan, and got the link out to its customers pretty quickly. I got three e-mails from them with the link and had no problem accessing their pps.

Believe me, I'm not saying this to defend DRF, I'm just confused. It seems to me they actually were well on top of this.


I got the email too but couldn't access the Breeders Cup pp.'s. I then tried other tracks and some, but not all of them worked at that time.

[Tom]

I'm trying to figure out how their customers aren't being protected here. They are doing everything in their power (pun not intended) to get information to people, but how do you have a back up plan for something like what what happened in the city?

There are literally thousands without power still. What would you like them to do Tom? Isn't a hurricane a pretty good excuse?

You have back up web site capability. That's how.
Not hard. That is what contingency means. If we lost power and went down this week, we had plans in place to be back in production, off site in 72 hours.

The unprotected parts refers to the fact that in 2001, they failed to honor the subscriptions they sold. That is stealing in my book.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by the little guy
I'm confused. DRF did have a back-up plan, and got the link out to its customers pretty quickly. I got three e-mails from them with the link and had no problem accessing their pps.

Believe me, I'm not saying this to defend DRF, I'm just confused. It seems to me they actually were well on top of this.


Not everyone got the emails, and their links failed to work properly.
btw, Need any Retama PPs? :D

[castaway01]

No, not true. They run a web-based business. The sell products - at inflated prices - to people who need web access to use them. Part of responsible business is to have contingency plans to protect your customers. DRF obviously doesn't care about theirs. Back up plans are mandatory in my world - contingency is not only required, it is audited by third parties if you wish to be certified.

And it is not a nice in a lifetime event. It happen to DRF in 2001, 9/11. They had a wake up call then and failed to put anything in place to prevent a re-occurrence. What they did back then was literally screw anyone who had an unlimited subscription by not extending them to make of for the weeks of no data. That deal could have been excused, had they reacted responsibly, but they did not. I was an unlimited annual plan subscribe up until then and stopped that. I have only bought a few big day cards ever since. Now even that will change.

The problem, Thask, with this game, as I see it is everyone has a frigging excuse for their failures. No one steps up to the plate and does damn thing about it.

I was the one who wrote that, not Thaskalos. And sorry, but a hurricane that causes unprecedented flooding is the very definition of a "once in a lifetime" or once in 100 years (as the insurance industry would define it) event. It had very unfortunate timing, but that's not DRF's fault any more than it's Thorograph's fault or any of the other NYC businesses affected. Backup plans can't cover everything Tom. It's just not realistic.

[Dahoss9698]

You have back up web site capability. That's how.
Not hard. That is what contingency means. If we lost power and went down this week, we had plans in place to be back in production, off site in 72 hours.

The unprotected parts refers to the fact that in 2001, they failed to honor the subscriptions they sold. That is stealing in my book.
In regards to 2001, I'm not really sure of the circumstances, but I can say anytime I have ever had an issue, as long as you contact Lonnie, he takes care of it.

I understand what contingency means, but reality is you can't be prepared for everything. If I had told you a few months ago that NYC would have been experiencing what they are now...you would have thought I was crazy. And I would have agreed.

I can understand wanting to get the PP's, but come on. It's not like it's hard to find free PP's on the web from multiple sources (including the Breeders Cup website) and IMO they have done what they can.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think you are overestimating the impact of racing's so-called stars. I'm hosting about a dozen friends on Saturday to watch the BC. All are college-educated and middle aged (with several a bit older and retired). They aren't racing fans but they are aware of and occasionally watch the BC and TC races. It's a couple of years on, but not a single one knew anything about Zenyatta and only a couple "think" they had even heard of her. I'm afraid this whole notion of individual horses creating a broad based, long-term interest in the game is nonsense. Secretariat didn't do it. Neither did Ruffian, Affirmed or Seattle Slew. Racing isn't in decline because there are no "stars". It is in decline because it is no longer competitive with emerging TV-ready sports and alternative gambling options.I think most of what you write is spot-on, especially about "stars" creating some sort of racing renaissance. We always hear this bantered about, but it NEVER happens.

Just look at Zenyatta. She's been out of the scene what? Two years? (man, has time flown)...and yet here we are again, lamenting the sad state of horse racing...obviously, her impact was very marginal, at best.

[Shelby]

Tom, I'm sorry you had so many problems with DRF. That's no fun.

I didn't have any trouble at all...maybe because I downloaded them Monday evening.

Instead of "lamenting the sad state of racing" I was so excited for Breeder's Cup that I couldn't sleep. I feel like a kid on Christmas eve!

Good luck to everyone and I hope we can hit some big ones! The toughest race for me today is the Marathon. Holy crap I've stared at it for three days now. I can't go with Atigun because he hasn't won at the distance.

Anyway, I just wanted to share that at least one horse player is very enthused about the next two days . :)

[thespaah]

I am sitting here reading the comments.
One issue I cannot get away from is the expectations of some of the posters on here.
FOr those of you living in the NY Metro area, no one has to remind you of the unprecedented amount of damage and destruction to buildings and infrastructure. Electrical power and telecommunications facilities damaged or destroyed. Entire towns isolated due to these issues above as well as the loss wireless services.
With all of that, it comes as no surprise that some businesses no matter how prepared for disaster, cannot be ready for a catastrophic event such as Sandy.
With that in mind, and of course keeping our thoughts with those people of NY and NJ who are REALLY suffering, the complaining about the DRF site seems small and when one gets down to brass tacks, there are other places to get PP's.
The bottom line is sometimes shit happens and we all have to deal with it.
Flame away...

[Tom]

They should have had the decency to cancel the BC.
And why is this board still open?
I heard they even had a contest here today!
Heathens!!!

[mostpost]

It cannot be denied that there is declining interest in horse racing-related matters, here at PA and elsewhere. But it is not a surprising occurrance...having been predicted ahead of time by myself...as well as a few other observant members of this site.

I call it the "Zenyatta Effect"...

The mighty mare carried the sport on her back during some very turbulent times...as only the truly great horses can.

There is an aspect of true greatness in race horses which carries far beyond the racetrack...into the very fabric of the game itself; and when these truly great horses are gone...the game is reduced to something not really worth talking about -- for the vast majority of the fans at least.

Sorta like watching the Chicago Bulls playing without D-Rose. :ThmbDown:

Hey!! The Bulls are 2-0 without D-Rose. I know. I know. They played the Kings and the Cavaliers, but they play basketball the way it is supposed to be played. I'm predicting between 50 and 65 victories depending on how soon Rose returns. Fifty being the number if he does not return at all.

[Stillriledup]

I know the original topic here was about DRF and their being offline for a bit of time and whatnut, but it seems that some people have talked about the state of the game also.

I thought to myself today "what is the difference between the me of today and the me of many years ago" and far as racing goes. The answer i came up with is that the 'novelty' of the sport has worn off for me and its strictly another gambling game that i'm looking for a Plus EV wager.

Valento mentioned a certain trainer as a 'maggot vulture' and that is one of the main reasons the sport has lost its 'allure' for me. I have my own list of 'maggot vultures' and they include a handful of trainers who i feel are ruining the game, they are the usual suspects, you dont have to look long and far to find them, we all know the names of the cheats.

You can look back to when you were a little kid watching Secretariat and the great decade of the 70s as one of the 'golden era's' of thoroughbred racing, but as time has worn on the game has been 'picked clean'.

I remember in the old days when i learned how to handicap, there were no Beyer figures, no clocker reports, no 'supertrainers who won 33 percent of their races, no expert handicappers on the in house television feed giving out superior information to the masses, there were also no 'sheets' either. Well, there might have been sheets, but they certainly werent mainstream.

If you take the sheets/Beyers, Public clocker information, in house television, message boards and blogs that discuss races in depth with experts sharing information and of course, supertrainers who train for clients who are big bettors who have a monster edge, you have a much tougher game than it was when we all grew up. If you were half smart and kind of paid attention in 1975 or 1980, you could hold your own very well, you were most likely an on track patron and if you were on track, your only competition was the people who were also live and on track, there was no simulcasting back in the 'day' so it was you against the person standing next to you for the most part. Not impossible.

Today, its SO much harder to hang around in this game and i think that's why people are either leaving the game or betting much less.

If you compare betting on NFL games to horse racing, the NFL has and always was -110 on both sides, with only 2 teams. It was that way in 1970 and it's that way in 2012. Its approximately a 5% takeout because on the bets you win, there's 0 takeout. Think about that for a second. If you bet on a sporting event and WIN, you pay 0 takeout. You only pay takeout if you lose.

I guess it comes down to this. Racing is trying to sell this as a sport, they're trying to sell you equine stars and maybe some human stars, but the people who will be attracted by the excitement of the sport, are probably not betting all that much money. The people who could care less about the sport as a sport, are probably larger bettors who are just looking for a good gamble and could care less about actual horses.

[Valuist]

Hey!! The Bulls are 2-0 without D-Rose. I know. I know. They played the Kings and the Cavaliers, but they play basketball the way it is supposed to be played. I'm predicting between 50 and 65 victories depending on how soon Rose returns. Fifty being the number if he does not return at all.

Not to hijack this thread but not impossible. They were 16-8 last year without him. But come playoff time, they couldn't even get past the Sixers. I would be content if they could just be over .500 until he comes back. Definitely concerned about that kind of an injury. He had as much, if not more, lateral quickness than anyone in the NBA. Yes, even Paul and Westbrook. He also had groin and toe problems last year and if he is favoring the knee at all when he comes back, he could re-aggravate the groin problem. The positive is we've seen Adrian Peterson and Jamaal Charles come back from ACL surgery close to their pre-injury form so lets hope he can make a full comeback.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...I guess it comes down to this. Racing is trying to sell this as a sport, they're trying to sell you equine stars and maybe some human stars,....

Are they? Who? HRTV or TVG with their thousands of hardcore racing fans? Certainly not too much beyond that. The NTRA has an 8+M budget, almost half of which is allegedly for advertising and promotion. Maybe I'm just in the dark, but if I had to guess, I would have assumed that they have a $5,000 budget and maybe a few nickels for promotions. I'm sure that they are spending the money, but I'm not seeing the results or anymore, even the attempt at results. Guys with a few hundred bucks and a YouTube account seem to be able to turn nothing into something overnight, but you wouldn't even know racing existed were it not for your own disposition towards the sport. I have yet to see a Breeder's Cup commercial/promotion anywhere but in a trade publication - I'm sure they are out there - but they aren't reaching me and I'm not exactly locked in a dark room. I don't know what racing is trying to sell anymore... other than the core product to the highest bidder representing a competing gambling product.

[usedtolovetvg]

I was at the Handicapping Championships in Vegas a few years back. It seems that the entire NTRA staff was there. They cared little about the contest but sure loved being in Vegas. I'll bet a big part of the budget went for that.

[Stillriledup]

Are they? Who? HRTV or TVG with their thousands of hardcore racing fans? Certainly not too much beyond that. The NTRA has an 8+M budget, almost half of which is allegedly for advertising and promotion. Maybe I'm just in the dark, but if I had to guess, I would have assumed that they have a $5,000 budget and maybe a few nickels for promotions. I'm sure that they are spending the money, but I'm not seeing the results or anymore, even the attempt at results. Guys with a few hundred bucks and a YouTube account seem to be able to turn nothing into something overnight, but you wouldn't even know racing existed were it not for your own disposition towards the sport. I have yet to see a Breeder's Cup commercial/promotion anywhere but in a trade publication - I'm sure they are out there - but they aren't reaching me and I'm not exactly locked in a dark room. I don't know what racing is trying to sell anymore... other than the core product to the highest bidder representing a competing gambling product.

Im not talking about budget or advertising. Las Vegas doesnt charge admission to their racebook because they realize that horse betting is just a gambling game. When tracks charge parking and admission, they're 'admitting' that its more than just a bet. They are acting as if its a 'sporting contest' by charging admission and parking.

If i have free parking and admission passes, i'm MUCH more likely to attend live racing.

[Tom]

I

If i have free parking and admission passes, i'm MUCH more likely to attend live racing.

We have free parking and admission at FL, for years now.
Still no reason to go to the track.

Racing will never me back to the track.
Nothing worse than a day at the track.
Any track.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Im not talking about budget or advertising. Las Vegas doesnt charge admission to their racebook because they realize that horse betting is just a gambling game. When tracks charge parking and admission, they're 'admitting' that its more than just a bet. They are acting as if its a 'sporting contest' by charging admission and parking.

If i have free parking and admission passes, i'm MUCH more likely to attend live racing.

Needless to say, I'm not exactly sold on how you reach your conclusion. I don't think that charging for admission, parking, or concessions is an implication that "they" are selling the industry as one thing over another because of what a casino does. The take on casino games is considerably lower for the most part than it is for state lottery tickets, but yet, the lottery is trying to "sell" the endeavour as a gambling activity, not as a way to enjoy yourself. I think the reasons for charging whatever they can for anything they can at the track has very little to do with actively "selling" the product as sport, but rather as an indictment of the state of the industry and decision makers within overall.

There is, in my opinion, no consensus opinion on how to market the industry effectively and accordingly, very little to imply that overall either approach is being actively pursued by the industry at large.

[Dahoss9698]

We have free parking and admission at FL, for years now.
Still no reason to go to the track.

Racing will never me back to the track.
Nothing worse than a day at the track.
Any track.
IJ_R-G_i4Xk

[Tom]

Still stalking, huh?
Nice you understand your limits.

[Dahoss9698]

Dude...nothing worse than a day at the track? Seriously?

Is there ANYTHING good enough for you? People go out of their way to go to places like Saratoga, Del Mar and Keeneland. Even non bettors LOVE going to these places.

And here you are...The most prolific poster on this HORSE RACING board saying nothing worse than a day at the track. It's comical.

[Tom]

Dude...nothing worse than a day at the track? Seriously?

Yes, Eintstein, I play at home. Going to the track sucks.
Do I need your permission to prefer to play at home?
Better food, my computer, better view, no assholes to deal with, other than on this forum. Hint.

What kind a complete jerk are you to tell me what I enjoy doing and not doing?

[Dahoss9698]

Yes, Eintstein, I play at home. Going to the track sucks.
Do I need your permission to prefer to play at home?
Better food, my computer, better view, no assholes to deal with, other than on this forum. Hint.

What kind a complete jerk are you to tell me what I enjoy doing and not doing?
I want to commend you for composing this post almost error free. Very heroic, because I know you're fighting through the tears.

I'm not telling you anything. I think it's comical that you hate going to the track. Is that so crazy?

You're free to do whatever you want. No one is going to stop you from sitting in your stained wife beater and tighty whities eating pizza rolls.

But I'm certainly allowed to give my opinion. If you can't handle it put me on ignore.

[Tom]

How old are, really?
12?

You sure act like it.
Maybe 11-1/2.

[johnhannibalsmith]

See? Whoever started this thread just didn't wait long enough, the board is in perfect working order. :D

[thespaah]

We have free parking and admission at FL, for years now.
Still no reason to go to the track.

Racing will never me back to the track.
Nothing worse than a day at the track.
Any track.
Why?

[Tom]

Why?

At home, I have my computer, access to many tracks, access to my database, my own food and drink, a comfortable chair, TV with slow-mo replay a foot away......why would I want to lug a laptop, or print out multiple track, go sit in front of a tv at the track....

At home, I can bet a few, go mow the lawn, come back for other races I am interested in later, from noon until midnight.

Going to the track has nothing at all to do with betting horses.
I've been to Kee, Sar, Del....nice places to visit, but go there on a routine? Never. Saratoga is the worst track I have ever been to watch races.

[MutuelClerk]

Why? It's the world we live in these days. Alot of people wanna stay home and not interact with others for whatever reason. Just be glad he still has interest in the horse racing. Not many do anymore.

[racingfan378]

Why?

At home, I have my computer, access to many tracks, access to my database, my own food and drink, a comfortable chair, TV with slow-mo replay a foot away......why would I want to lug a laptop, or print out multiple track, go sit in front of a tv at the track....

At home, I can bet a few, go mow the lawn, come back for other races I am interested in later, from noon until midnight.

Going to the track has nothing at all to do with betting horses.
I've been to Kee, Sar, Del....nice places to visit, but go there on a routine? Never. Saratoga is the worst track I have ever been to watch races.

As a true fan of this sport, I've been to over 70 different pari-mutuel places here in North America. But Tom brings up a couple of valid points. Saratoga is SO rich in history and a great place to visit but I can't enjoy playing the races there NOR simulcasting. Where can I lay out my form? Long lines to bet and the list goes on. I go for the enjoyment of a day at a track that's packed knowing that I am not going to hit the two day carryover on the Pick 6 b/c of the crowd and I am not in "my element".

Doesnt mean for one damn moment I wont go to a track for live racing. There is just nothing else like it, especially on the big days!

But...My best days at the track have been to where I can lay out a form and have everything close to me. Those trips came in the Del Mar & Hollywood press box, Delaware Park (3rd level, paddock) and Beulah Park (clubhouse).

Opening day at Santa Anita is fun but you cant get a seat, you are watching your calendar giveaway item like a hawk so no one steals it and you pay for overpriced crappy food.

The bottom line is simple, the more serious horseplayers either have access to the press box like Andy Beyer, Steve Crist, etc. and enjoy peace, relaxation, better food, comped programs and forms along with private betting windows OR you sit at home watching everything on the computer or paying $50 a month for RTN

I would be shocked to meet someone making a killing at this game who pays for a grandstand seat, faces long lines at the windows, traffic to & from, kids running around & novices on a Saturday at Del Mar. Just not going to happen.

[SandyLoam]

DRF is hardley major-media.

How about there is NOTHING on the front page of ESPN.

They have an old player complaining about Ditka for the 2nd straight day, they have petty legal issues for some Cowboy named "Tyron Smith", but NOTHING about the Breeders Cup.

You have to navigate to "more sports" then "middle column/ 2nd from bottom/ horse racing". Zero impulse bait on the first page.

ESPN is notorious for not paying attention to anything that's not on it's network or ABC. AND for shilling Division Z football if it is on ESPN.

[usedtolovetvg]

For some reason ESPN has always loved the NHL even when they didn't have the rights.

[tzipi]

A few days before the biggest days in the sport and the major media publication is down and unable to get back. Completely understandable that they went down because of the storm, but unreal that they still are not able to get their servers back up three days after the storm.

You come to this Board to get some information and the conversations about the Breeders Cup (selections, handicapping, workout reports) are lacking. Rather, the posts that come up on a search for recent posts are regarding unemployment, Benghazigate, ADP job numbers, the White Minnesota Timberwolves, election odds, looting, James Harden, Romneisa, CNNN.

Remarkably someone created an interesting post about the Breeders Cup Marathon and whether Eldaafer could win the race. That got 5 posts. A tribute to Snickers and how it beats other candy bars got 7 posts.

Don't get me wrong some of these topics are interesting and deserve conversation (the Snickers conversation is very interesting if you are 5 years old), but is not the primary purpose of this Board to be about horse racing?


Sorry it's lacking. Just got my electricity and internet/cable back after 9 days. I apologize about the natural disaster that hit. :rolleyes:

Missed my first Breeders Cup since 1994 :( Hope everyone is doing good and everyone is safe.

[menifee]

Sorry it's lacking. Just got my electricity and internet/cable back after 9 days. I apologize about the natural disaster that hit. :rolleyes:

Missed my first Breeders Cup since 1994 :( Hope everyone is doing good and everyone is safe.

Hope you and your family are doing well. To think that I was blaming the storm victims for not being active participants on this board is an inane assertion.

[tzipi]

Hope you and your family are doing well. To think that I was blaming the storm victims for not being active participants on this board is an inane assertion.


Well its just hard to think it's just lack of interest because I've been here for years and Pace's site is always packed and jumping with posts at Breeders Cup time. This year as I look now(just got internet back), if lacking, I can only think of one reason, the storm.
I see a lot of people also lost power, internet, helping others, etc, so I'm guessing that cut down big time on Pace traffic, posts,etc. JMO :)

Anyway everythings good, made it through and look forward to some racing finally :ThmbUp:

[appistappis]

i wonder if the title of this thread should be the sad state of the people running horseracing.

[thespaah]

As a true fan of this sport, I've been to over 70 different pari-mutuel places here in North America. But Tom brings up a couple of valid points. Saratoga is SO rich in history and a great place to visit but I can't enjoy playing the races there NOR simulcasting. Where can I lay out my form? Long lines to bet and the list goes on. I go for the enjoyment of a day at a track that's packed knowing that I am not going to hit the two day carryover on the Pick 6 b/c of the crowd and I am not in "my element".

Doesnt mean for one damn moment I wont go to a track for live racing. There is just nothing else like it, especially on the big days!

But...My best days at the track have been to where I can lay out a form and have everything close to me. Those trips came in the Del Mar & Hollywood press box, Delaware Park (3rd level, paddock) and Beulah Park (clubhouse).

Opening day at Santa Anita is fun but you cant get a seat, you are watching your calendar giveaway item like a hawk so no one steals it and you pay for overpriced crappy food.

The bottom line is simple, the more serious horseplayers either have access to the press box like Andy Beyer, Steve Crist, etc. and enjoy peace, relaxation, better food, comped programs and forms along with private betting windows OR you sit at home watching everything on the computer or paying $50 a month for RTN

I would be shocked to meet someone making a killing at this game who pays for a grandstand seat, faces long lines at the windows, traffic to & from, kids running around & novices on a Saturday at Del Mar. Just not going to happen.
Hmm. I go to Saratoga every year. I NEVER experience long lines.
I use the machines. I can bet up to the bell and never have to wait more than a minute or so.
If you get there at the right time, you can find a good spot to "lay out your form"..BTW, experienced horse players ,for the most part, print out their PP's in advance..Or they just bring their laptops or tablets. NYRA started free wifi for the 2012 Spa meet.
I must admit though, if were still in my hometown in NJ, my visits to the downstate NYRA tracks would be far less frequent now. Just to get there I have to cross two bridges which is $24 round trip. GWB $12 and the Whitestone or Throgs Neck, $6 each way. Plus program gas...It's $40 just to get out there and back. So yeah, I would be with you in that vein.
I still would rather be at the track. I just like it there.

[thespaah]

ESPN is notorious for not paying attention to anything that's not on it's network or ABC. AND for shilling Division Z football if it is on ESPN.
ESPN, is infamous for ignoring sports with which they have no contract.
For example, ESPN all but treats the NHL like an afterthought. And now since ESPN no longer has a deal with the BC, same thing.
On the flip side, ESPN BURIES it's viewers with NBA promotions. And still nobody watches the damned thing. College hoops is ESPN's bread and butter. NCAA Football a close second.

[thespaah]

For some reason ESPN has always loved the NHL even when they didn't have the rights.
I respectfully disagree

[tzipi]

Last couple of years TV ratings average for Sports/games. Surprised at some.

Super Bowl- 42.5
BCS Champ- 17.3
NCAA Final- 12.1
World Series- 10.0
Daytona 500- 9.7
Kentucky Dby.- 9.2
Masters- 9.0(Final Rd)
NBA Finals- 8.6
World Cup- 8.1
Preakness- 6.5
Indy 500- 6.1
US Golf Open- 5.8(Final Rd)
PGA Champion- 5.3(Final Rd)
Belmont Stakes- 4.6
British Open- 3.9
Stanley Cup- 3.6
Little League WS- 2.5 (finals)
US Open Tennis- 2.4 (finals)
Wimbledon Mens- 2.1 (finals)
Wimbledon Wom.- 1.9 (finals)
WS of Poker- 1.6
Breeders Cup- 1.0
MLS Cup- 0.7
WNBA Finals- 0.4

[TJDave]

Going to the track has nothing at all to do with betting horses.


You know that's not true. ;)

[The Hawk]

Last couple of years TV ratings average for Sports/games. Surprised at some.

Super Bowl- 42.5
BCS Champ- 17.3
NCAA Final- 12.1
World Series- 10.0
Daytona 500- 9.7
Kentucky Dby.- 9.2
Masters- 9.0(Final Rd)
NBA Finals- 8.6
World Cup- 8.1
Preakness- 6.5
Indy 500- 6.1
US Golf Open- 5.8(Final Rd)
PGA Champion- 5.3(Final Rd)
Belmont Stakes- 4.6
British Open- 3.9
Stanley Cup- 3.6
Little League WS- 2.5 (finals)
US Open Tennis- 2.4 (finals)
Wimbledon Mens- 2.1 (finals)
Wimbledon Wom.- 1.9 (finals)
WS of Poker- 1.6
Breeders Cup- 1.0
MLS Cup- 0.7
WNBA Finals- 0.4

What I find surprising is that ANYONE watched the WNBA Finals, outside of the players' families.

[Aner]

The Kentucky Derby has 9 times more viewers than the Breeders Cup. Never would have guessed the difference was that much. Why?

[Tom]

You know that's not true. ;)

It is true.
No one needs ever go to a track to bet.
Is a movie theater required to watch movies?

[tzipi]

The Kentucky Derby has 9 times more viewers than the Breeders Cup. Never would have guessed the difference was that much. Why?

One reason has to be there are Derby office pools at almost every workplace and bar pools and so many non fans watch for that.

[the little guy]

Is a movie theater required to watch movies?

In many cases, yes, if you want to truly appreciate the movie. Maybe not the vast majority of the crap made nowadays, but for many classics, I would say yes.

It all depends on what you are looking for Tom. In your case, you are happier staying home and playing, which is great, but for some people that isn't the case. It's great these days that people have options.

[the little guy]

What I find surprising is that ANYONE watched the WNBA Finals, outside of the players' families.

I would have watched if Seattle was still playing.

[Tom]

In many cases, yes, if you want to truly appreciate the movie. Maybe not the vast majority of the crap made nowadays, but for many classics, I would say yes.

It all depends on what you are looking for Tom. In your case, you are happier staying home and playing, which is great, but for some people that isn't the case. It's great these days that people have options.

Thank you.
That is all I have been saying.
I do go the theater sometimes. I went to Return of the King.:rolleyes:
And I am going to see the new 007 - someone gave me a free pass.

[The Hawk]

I would have watched if Seattle was still playing.

Really??? Why? Or was that facetious?

[the little guy]

Really??? Why? Or was that facetious?

Not facetious. I've seen many Seatte Storm games over the years.

[castaway01]

Not facetious. I've seen many Seatte Storm games over the years.

Lauren Jackson?

[Striker]

The Kentucky Derby has 9 times more viewers than the Breeders Cup. Never would have guessed the difference was that much. Why?
The number of female viewers has increased significantly in the last few years which certainly has helped. More females watch the KD than males now but not by much, 51%.

[Track Phantom]

One reason has to be there are Derby office pools at almost every workplace and bar pools and so many non fans watch for that.

Been around the game for 30 years. Never seen even one Derby office pool. Not one.

[Aner]

One of the problems is simply the name--Breeders Cup.

It doesn't sound important or exciting compared to World Series, Superbowl, Masters, or World Cup. Why did we name it something so esoteric only rabid horse players recognize it's significance.

[PaceAdvantage]

How about:

NTRA SmackDown ! !

[Robert Fischer]

How about:

NTRA SmackDown ! !

i'm fired up.

[tzipi]

Been around the game for 30 years. Never seen even one Derby office pool. Not one.

Weird. Always had them at my offices over they years and same with all my friends because they ALWAYS call me asking if the horse they got is good ha. Also almost every bar does one. Pay couple bucks and they draw a horses name for the people entered.

[VeryOldMan]

How about:

NTRA SmackDown ! !

Now you're talking! Jockeys and trainers can cut trash talking promos in the days leading up to SmackDown. Call to the post - out; smoke machines and pyro effects - in. A "no drugs barred" training challenge between Jamie Ness and Doug O'Neill. So many possibilities.

[thespaah]

How about:

NTRA SmackDown ! !
There ya go!