Modern Racing in Canada. & America

[Suff]

Racing is in the midst of major shakeups. One thing I'm sure of.. Passionate race fans like the type on this board will be able to tell the future players they witnessed it all first hand.

I can't follow it all. Boycotts, signal monopolys, rebates, off shores, NYRA slot machines, Santa Anita's decline.

I have no opinion on most of this stuff, depsite having a better than average understanding ot it.


Heres what I do know. I was standing in the Placing Judges Box at NYRA a month ago....and the 6th race was about to go off and the Telephone rang. One of the placing Judges hit a speaker phone and said Hello... A womens voice on the other end said hello. And that was it. Silence followed.

The horses loaded and when the gate opened one of the placing Judges turned his head towards the phone and said "They're off". the same womens voice replied ..."they're off".

The race ran... It was officialized quickly and the placing judge went to the phone and read the order 3-2-6 OFFICIAL.. The women said 3-2-6 Official and hung up.

You got to be a wee curious what that PHONE CALL is about? No?

Canadien Pari mutual laws do not allow for video/electronic confirmation of a races "Off time" nor Official Results. That women was from WOODBINE. WOODBINE has a person on the telephone with someone at every North American track it simalcasts. Imagine that? 9 times a day they call each track..sit for the OFF,,then sit for the results. They have dedicated 1-800 numbers into The Majors. What an Archiac system.

What a Dinosaur Business racing is. Its Fred Flinstone meets the Jetsons. It needs an over haul to top to bottom. I hear and see stuff like this and it Baffles me how OUT-OF - DATE racing legislation is... all around this country and canada.

Technology and Modern day legislation is the only way out. technology can change the way an industry operates very quickly... But tracks need to get Laws altered for simple things like LIVE DATES changed,,,

It Takes months and years to get laws changed and getting them changed uniformly from State to State... never mind Country to Country is impossible. I've been to many Racing Commission hearings at the MA State house. Suffolk needs to get down on ONE KNEE to move a Bathroom over there...

Maybe it will take the Closing of CORNERSTONE facilities like Santa Anita and/or Gulfstream to get enough of the National Concience aware of the industrys problems.

Because without some type of National Standards the industry is far to Fragmented to fix itself.

My Final Point... I don't know exactly where I come down on many of these issues affecting racing. It appears racing is in for some major pains in the next 1-3 years.
I only hope that it emerges with the laws and technology to be a better product 4 or 5 years from now.

[Figman]

Suff,
I like that Canada does as you describe. There is no chance of fooling with an electronic data transmission as I suspect is being done with the wagering data. You know what I mean, everyone here in the US complaining about late odds drops during a race. Canada is protecting itself with those phone calls. After all, the money bet in Canada stays in Canada. Canadian money is NOT comingled into American parimutuel pools. You bet NYRA with an Ontario based phone account, you get the payoff as determined from their pools and not the ontrack payout at NYRA.

[Suff]

And when will it end. ask yourself..

Is Stronach Calling or Raising?

If he's raising this will get ugly. If he's calling , it will be over in 3 months.

[chrisg]

I'd like to see fewer tracks. Fewer dates too. I want full fields. I'd like to see breeders take that extra step & not breed with those that are known to pass on certain physical ailments.

& this will never happen...get away from this 2yo speed freak crap & get back some stamina. I like grass marathons!

& here's a challenge for the industry...An Indoor Track . Maybe Delaware could pull this off since they have the ground. Huge initial investment...but think of the possibilities...oh, & I want one of the indoor turf courses named after me :D

I needed a good rant this morning:cool:

[Suff]

Originally posted by Figman
Suff,
I like that Canada does as you describe. as determined from their pools and not the ontrack payout at NYRA.

not disagreeing that the application fits the need. But it is one more moving leg on a 2000 leg Octopus. And more example how the industrty lacks the integrity to be "all elctronic".

people are buying entire towns on e-bay and we can't get a horse to go off at 2-1 properly.

[blind squirrel]

MY 3 IDEAS FOR RACING:

#1 FEWER RACING DAYS:SO CAL is a joke,5 horse
fields good for pick 6 players,bad for majority of players.

#2 WINTER RACING:nothing worse than watching a card
from TURFWAY with the worst jockey's in AMERICA
"punching the clock" on a 18 degree day.

#3 HANDICAPPING TOURNAMENT TOUR:every major track
should offer a 50,000 first prize tourney.SA,CD,BEL,KEE,
FG,SAR,DMR,GP.THROW IN THE DRF and ORLEANS and this would
be a great circuit.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by chrisg
I'd like to see fewer tracks. Fewer dates too. I want full fields. I'd like to see breeders take that extra step & not breed with those that are known to pass on certain physical ailments.

& this will never happen...get away from this 2yo speed freak crap & get back some stamina. I like grass marathons!

& here's a challenge for the industry...An Indoor Track . Maybe Delaware could pull this off since they have the ground. Huge initial investment...but think of the possibilities...oh, & I want one of the indoor turf courses named after me :D

I needed a good rant this morning:cool:

Chris..... I was talking to someone the other day about what it would take to build an indoor track. The only really tough thing we came up with was supporting the roof......it would be huge! But I bet it could be done though.......

[John]

If thy could dome a football staduim, why not a track. Because they are not Horse people. Its all about how much can we make. with the smallest overhead. It is not a sport anymore..

[BillW]

Originally posted by Suff


Canadien Pari mutual laws do not allow for video/electronic confirmation of a races "Off time" nor Official Results.


It's funny that Canada would trust a human in lieu of a computer system when A) it is a humans fault in the first place if a computer system is vulnerable, not an inherent characteristic of a computer. and B) it is that very human that is necessary to take advantage of that vulnerability.


One of the legacies of Bill Gates is that he has (falsely) taught the world that you can't trust a computer (and it's the computer's fault!), but a phone call with unidentified parties on both ends serve as secured communication.

:rolleyes:

Bill

BTW, Chris ... aren't you asking a bit much,? You already have a horse named after you :D

[Tom]

I never blame the computer-I always blame Gates for putting undeveloped trash into a market he has already gained control of.
We should think about sending special forces to capture HIM and his "Windows of Mass Destruction."
:D

[so.cal.fan]

Suff:
I don't know a thing about NYRA racing but in regards to your comment:

<"Heres what I do know. I was standing in the Placing Judges Box at NYRA a month ago....and the 6th race was about to go off and the Telephone rang. One of the placing Judges hit a speaker phone and said Hello... A womens voice on the other end said hello. And that was it. Silence followed.

The horses loaded and when the gate opened one of the placing Judges turned his head towards the phone and said "They're off". the same womens voice replied ..."they're off".

The race ran... It was officialized quickly and the placing judge went to the phone and read the order 3-2-6 OFFICIAL.. The women said 3-2-6 Official and hung up.

You got to be a wee curious what that PHONE CALL is about? No"?>

In So. Cal. they have a phone line, giving almost instant results...
(626) 446-8501.......
could this woman have been getting the official run of the race and the official results, as in she worked in the racing office or the press box?
Or, is there a female steward? Could have been that to?
They would need the official placing by a placing judge?

[Suff]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Suff:
I don't know a thing about NYRA racing but in regards to your comment:


?

I'm not guessing as to the call.. Thats kinda funny that you think I would Guess at that detail about Woodbine. I assure you...I asked and recieved a lengthy answer about the call. After he explained it to me, I ran it back at him to be sure I heard him right.

Another member of this board was standing right beside me. I'm not asking anyone to support the story. Trust me. It was woodbine on the phone.

[so.cal.fan]

Sorry, I didn't read you right, Suff.
Woodbine? I can see where you were a bit concerned/confused.
If I heard a placing judge on the phone here at Santa Anita talking to Woodbine, I would wonder why as well.
:confused:

[PaceAdvantage]

so.cal.fan,

If Woodbine (or any Canadian outlet) simulcasts Santa Anita, there WILL INDEED be an official on the phone with someone at Santa Anita....it's Canadian law....

I'm not sure where the confusion started in this post, but everything Suff posted is fact. A racing official from Woodbine is on the phone with NYRA (and presumably every track that Canada simulcasts) waiting for verbal confirmation of OFF TIME and OFFICIAL RESULTS for EVERY RACE run at NYRA that Woodbine is simulcasting.

If anyone else has more details, feel free to add on....

[Suff]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
so.cal.fan,



If anyone else has more details, feel free to add on....

S

I might be corrected on this but I believe Woodbine is acting like a national hub.. They're getting the signal and selling it Nationally so the other canadien tracks that POOL into woodbine do not need a Person on the phone... I do believe.

That ones a stab... I think I made it up... But I mighta heard it.. hard to say. I have an active imagination.

[mezmac]

In the past, I worked for several years at a Canadian racetrack as a Mutuels Manager. It is just as Suf described. The hosting track in Canada is responsible for the process described. Woodbine does the hosting for 90% plus of foreign simulcasting. (yes, you are foreigners to us, yikes) The person at Woodbine is a racing official working in the Mutuels department. This person works for the racing association (Woodbine Entertainment Group) and they are licensed by the federal regulatory agency called CPMA or Canadian Pari-Mutuel Agency.

The CPMA is a regulator and a representative is on site at all live racing conducted and if you are hosting a foreign simulcast. The CPMA representative is employed by the federal government via the CPMA and is in effect a "watch dog" to ensure the integrity of racing on behalf off all racing fans. The ones that I have known were usually retired RCMP officers or government accountants familiar with regulatory procedures.

The racing official when she repeats "they are off" is telling the tote people to turn off the Canadian network of tote machines. After the race, once she receives the "Official" and the "Official order of finish" she would review an in house TV monitor from the Tote department which would have a prepared the same information along with prices. She would verify that the information posted is correct because she has the official record. The tote people would then push a button and release the information on Canadian pay out prices to all simulcast receiving sites across Canada.

The process is controlled by the racing official because she represents the licensed body or the racing association. If there is a screw up then the racing association has to make good on the dollars. In addition the CPMA representative who is monitoring this process may do anything from delay or suspend racing to reprimand or revoking of licensee.

I can tell you screw ups do happen, on average two per year.

Hope this provides more backgound.

[so.cal.fan]

Thanks, Mezmac.

[Cratos]

Hi Suff,

You are quite right, racing as we know it today will change drastically over the next five years and hopefully for the better.

In my mind the number one thing wrong with racing is too much government interference. The question is whether racing will move more toward total privatization free of government or limited privatization as it is to today operating under state controlled regulatory boards.

Another need is industry organization. Today the “big three” in racing are Churchill Downs, Magna, and NYRA. Churchill has six racetracks under its stewardship, NYRA has three and Magna is the 800 pound gorilla with 14 racetracks.

However there are over 100 racetracks in this industry and the “big three” only account for 23, but they control racing in a way the smaller tracks could never imagine. Therefore what is needed in this industry is consolidation with a racing commissioner. In 2002 racing was a $34B industry according to the Jockey Club. Of that amount $15B came from wagering with approximate $3B going to state and local governments.

Is there modernization needed in this industry? Yes there are much needed changes and some are full digitization of race information, a 24-hour clear TV channel that broadcast races and replays without charge and an electronic patch affixed to each horse for the proper and correct time at each point of call.

[mikekk]

I might be corrected on this but I believe Woodbine is acting like a national hub.. They're getting the signal and selling it Nationally so the other canadien tracks that POOL into woodbine do not need a Person on the phone... I do believe.

Unless things have changed, Woodbine hosts most of the eastern seaboard US tracks and Hastings Park hosts the western ones.

Woodbine acts as the hub for CD, GP, the NYRA tracks and I think FG. Hastings hubs the California tracks, Houston, Australia and Hong Kong.

I didn't realize they sat on the phone with the originating track, though...must be fun sitting there waiting for the Australian tracks to report!

Mikekk

[kenwoodallpromos]

They need elctronic timing for all the horses' finishing times. Autotoes in all mini-marts, casinos, and at every parking meter in America with all tracks available! Just like the lotterys, with millions playing without thinking! And a lot of standardbred racing to fill cards, special racing like all grey horses. Computer chips in all horses to trace them so we know which retired race horse we are riding at the public stables!

[Brian Flewwelling]

Originally posted by Suff

You got to be a wee curious what that PHONE CALL is about? No?

Canadien Pari mutual laws do not allow for video/electronic confirmation of a races "Off time" nor Official Results. That women was from WOODBINE. WOODBINE has a person on the telephone with someone at every North American track it simalcasts. Imagine that? 9 times a day they call each track..sit for the OFF,,then sit for the results. They have dedicated 1-800 numbers into The Majors. What an Archiac system.

What a Dinosaur Business racing is.

I was curious about this so i emailed WO about it. this was their response.


Thank you for contacting the Woodbine Entertainment Group with your comments. At Woodbine we host separate pools for Canadian wagering on US and other foreign simulcasting, so we have to stop betting and calculate separate prices. During live racing, a track official (usually the placing Judge) stops betting for the live track. We have found that the most reliable method of ensuring that we are informed of the start of a race and of the official of the race is by contacting a racing official at the live track. We cannot rely on electronic or video signals that may be delayed or may malfunction. We make the calls because we want to ensure that all bets valid and no past post betting is allowed. Thanks again for your question. Wagering Operations Dept.


The responder did not give a name, but i think it was Fred ... Flintstone

Fleww