GOP Voter Suppression Radicalized William Louis-Dreyfus, 'Seinfeld' Star's

[maddog42]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/04/voter-suppression-william-louis-dreyfus_n_1936966.html

"Until recently, William Louis-Dreyfus was just another retired multimillionaire, giving his art collection away to charity and watching his actress daughter Julia on TV (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/04/voter-suppression-william-louis-dreyfus_n_1936966.html#). He followed politics, but not to the point of actually doing much about it."

If something impedes the right of the people to vote, I can't think of anything more lethal to happen to our basic principles," he said. "It's a damn outrage, and I don't understand why everyone -- Republican and Democrat alike -- are not shocked to their shoe tops." So when New York Times readers opened the front section of the newspaper Tuesday, they found a full-page ad (http://www.brennancenter.org/content/pages/calltoarms) in which Louis-Dreyfus announced his $1 million (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/william-louis-dreyfus-rich-voter-suppression_n_1932878.html) donation to fight voter suppression, explained why, and challenged his fellow wealthy Americans to do likewise.

And he entirely dismisses the voter fraud argument. "I'm not only not convinced," he said, "it seems to me that the other side is making that argument because it can't really say the truth."

The truth being that this is a Plot by Republicans to suppress poor and minority voting.



When I first heard of Voter ID a couple of years ago I was all for it. But the more I read about the sheer numbers that would likely be discouraged from voting, I changed my mind. Coupled with the fact that the type of Voter fraud that this law would prevent is very rare, made me dead set against it.

In the coming days I will post article after article showing how rare voter fraud is.

[bigmack]

In the coming days I will post article after article showing how rare voter fraud is.
Look-up stats on how many people fly planes into skyscrapers and then ask yourself why EVERYBODY needs ID to get on a plane.

I suppose you & Louis-Dreyfus have a problem with this as well?

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/reuters/2012-07-07t113101z_2_cbre8660nn000_rtroptp_3_libya-elections.grid-6x2.jpg

Who's next on your hit list of outrage, Canada?

In Canada to vote, one must prove their identity and address. A voter has three options:

(1) Show one original piece of identification with photo, name and address like a driver's license or a health card. It must be issued by a government agency.

(2) Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have an address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.

(3) Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of which will be required to make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

[boxcar]

Look-up stats on how many people fly planes into skyscrapers and then ask yourself why EVERYBODY needs ID to get on a plane.

I suppose you & Louis-Dreyfus have a problem with this as well?

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/reuters/2012-07-07t113101z_2_cbre8660nn000_rtroptp_3_libya-elections.grid-6x2.jpg

Who's next on your hit list of outrage, Canada?

In Canada to vote, one must prove their identity and address. A voter has three options:

(1) Show one original piece of identification with photo, name and address like a driver's license or a health card. It must be issued by a government agency.

(2) Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have an address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.

(3) Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of which will be required to make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

Canada's rules sound reasonable (but then again, maybe they don't have very many poor people up there.) :rolleyes: But seriously, there rules are right in line with the Law of Universal Distrust. The Canadians are more in touch with reality than we are.

Funny how libs here suddenly trust everyone. When it comes to voting, everyone is trustworthy, honest and truthful? I guess when someone steps into a polling place, they walk out of this dimension and into another one wherein everyone is wearing a halo? What incredible delusions!

Boxcar

[ArlJim78]

oh yes please do show us the facts. I'm dying to see how anyones vote would be suppressed. I've been waiting for this information but for some reason nobody has brought it forth. Now finally we can all learn about the "sheer numbers who would be discouraged" from voting.
I'm sure there is a most scientific way of calculating those who would be discouraged.

one more point, I'm not interested to know how rare voter fraud is. If you do not know who is voting, via some kind of indentification, then there is no way to know the extent of what fraud might be going on. any person over 12 knows that using the honor system for voting leaves a lot to be desired.

[GameTheory]

Yeah, don't understand this issue. I do understand that the Republicans pushing for this probably have less than pure motives, but so what? Having an ID to vote is just common sense, and as everyone points out given the other things we have to show ID for, it really just makes no sense. Practically everyone up until this was made an issue already assumed you needed id -- when you go to actually vote the people in line are always digging through their stuff to get their ID and are usually kind of annoyed they DON'T need it. It makes it feel as if YOUR vote is vulnerable to be stolen if anybody can just walk up and vote in your name...

[Greyfox]

Anyone with any brains carries some type of Identity card.

There are many reasons to have one.
For example, young people purchasing booze, people hurt in Motor Vehicle Accidents, applications for jobs, Social Security, credit cards and so on.
Any sensible person would insist that their kids carry ID at all times.
Many businesses insist that their employees wear visible identification cards, and rightfully so.
It's not as if a one time purchase of a card incurs a huge expense for anyone.

maddog - even if voter fraud is low in frequency, you are up an Acacia tree on this one.

[GameTheory]

Anyone with any brains carries some type of Identity card.

There are many reasons to have one.
For example, young people purchasing booze, people hurt in Motor Vehicle Accidents, applications for jobs, Social Security, credit cards and so on.
Any sensible person would insist that their kids carry ID at all times.
Many businesses insist that their employees wear visible identification cards, and rightfully so.
It's not as if a one time purchase of a card incurs a huge expense for anyone.

maddog - even if voter fraud is low in frequency, you are up an Acacia tree on this one.
Why isn't just registering to vote an unfair burden? Getting an id is just as painless, and as part of the process of enacting these laws they are making it quite easy, as shown by the PLAINTIFF (who is just a pawn of the opposition groups) of one of these lawsuits challenging one of these laws showing off her new id card, easily obtained.

Like I said, the motives for enacting these laws at this time are mostly unpure, but the lies from the opposition are even bigger. And the idea still is common sense, motives or not.

[maddog42]

Look-up stats on how many people fly planes into skyscrapers and then ask yourself why EVERYBODY needs ID to get on a plane.

I suppose you & Louis-Dreyfus have a problem with this as well?

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/reuters/2012-07-07t113101z_2_cbre8660nn000_rtroptp_3_libya-elections.grid-6x2.jpg

Who's next on your hit list of outrage, Canada?

In Canada to vote, one must prove their identity and address. A voter has three options:
(1) Show one original piece of identification with photo, name and address like a driver's license or a health card. It must be issued by a government agency.

(2) Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have an address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.

(3) Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of which will be required to make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

The canadian law is much less restrictive than ours and much better, because of sections 2 and 3.

[GameTheory]

The canadian law is much less restrictive than ours and much better, because of sections 2 and 3.Those steps would be pretty much the same thing you'd need to get an ID card, so what's the difference?

[ArlJim78]

I want to see one person on camera explain how any voter ID law discourages him or her from voting. "I could vote but now that I have to show my ID I just feel like, why bother?"

[horses4courses]

I want to see one person on camera explain how any voter ID law discourages him or her from voting. "I could vote but now that I have to show my ID I just feel like, why bother?"

Drop the fees for people to obtain ID if they're under a certain income level.

[GameTheory]

The truth being that this is a Plot by Republicans to suppress poor and minority voting.

When I first heard of Voter ID a couple of years ago I was all for it. But the more I read about the sheer numbers that would likely be discouraged from voting, I changed my mind. Coupled with the fact that the type of Voter fraud that this law would prevent is very rare, made me dead set against it.

In the coming days I will post article after article showing how rare voter fraud is.Let's agree right now that voter fraud of this type is very rare. So what? I so stipulate that it is true, and yet I still support the idea of voter ID.

I think if you are going to post article after article, they should show how this is going to suppress votes from legitimate voters as you say -- that would be much more likely to convince somebody to change their mind.

Again, maybe someone can tell me why we have voter registration at all? THAT suppresses voting far more than an ID check to make sure you are the person on the registered voter list. Why not just have open polling places where anybody can come in and vote without even giving a name, let alone an ID? Think of the the turnout!

[Greyfox]

Drop the fees for people to obtain ID if they're under a certain income level.

horses4courses

You live in Nevada.

An ID card in your State costs $12 for people between 18-64.
65 and older costs $7.

If you are homeless that fee can be waived.

http://www.dmv.org/nv-nevada/id-cards.php#Replacing-Your-ID-Card

How much lower do you want the fees to be?

[bigmack]

Again, maybe someone can tell me why we have voter registration at all? THAT suppresses voting far more than an ID check to make sure you are the person on the registered voter list. Why not just have open polling places where anybody can come in and vote without even giving a name, let alone an ID? Think of the the turnout!
That's not suppression because propellerheads like maddog, NJ, Louis-Dreyfus & mostie weren't instructed to think it is.

They don't think for themselves. They need hep.

[maddog42]

Anyone with any brains carries some type of Identity card.

There are many reasons to have one.
For example, young people purchasing booze, people hurt in Motor Vehicle Accidents, applications for jobs, Social Security, credit cards and so on.
Any sensible person would insist that their kids carry ID at all times.
Many businesses insist that their employees wear visible identification cards, and rightfully so.
It's not as if a one time purchase of a card incurs a huge expense for anyone.

maddog - even if voter fraud is low in frequency, you are up an Acacia tree on this one.

You are wrong.

According to an analysis by The Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia's elderly are more deeply affected (http://articles.philly.com/2012-07-19/news/32731232_1_id-law-penndot-id-absentee-ballot-applications) by the law than other age groups, particularly those over 80.

Of the 44,861 active Philadelphia voters aged 80 or older, one in four does not have the required form of ID to vote. That’s a total of 12,313, according to the Inquirer.




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/pennsylvania-voter-id-law-elderly_n_1934063.html

Of the 3 people I have talked to that were over 80, 2 did not have a government issued photo ID. One was my mom who is 95. She hasn't driven in 10 years. This article says 1 in 4 of people over 80 don't have them. That figure is more correct than mine. Here in Oklahoma I suspect the figure is higher.

"What I'm afraid of is they'll be disenfranchised from the voting process," said Camden Care Center administrator Robert Letich.

Letich says the vast majority of his residents who want to vote don't have a photo identification card.


http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=992604

[boxcar]

The canadian law is much less restrictive than ours and much better, because of sections 2 and 3.

Hey, Doggie, Louis-Dreyfus is as phony as a three dollar bill. And you should email him and tell him that. If he really wanted to put his money where his mouth is, all he has to do is show up at his polling precinct and stay there throughout the voting process and when each voter leaves, he should hand every one of them a flyer with his bank account numbers, user I.D.s and passwords and that would also explain to them that he's doing this because he has supreme faith in the integrity of humankind and, therefore, he's revealing this confidential info to test his theory in real time upon his fellow-man.

If he ever does this, please be sure to tell us what the test results were. :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

You are wrong.



What am I wrong about?

I simple stated that anyone with any brains carries an ID card.

You can throw figures and facts at me all you want about those who don't.
My mother is 97 and confined in a nursing home.
She is not compos mentis.
In her instance, it does not make any sense for her to have an ID card.
If she were in full charge of her mental faculties, of course she would have identification.
The elderly that you mention should too, if they are mentally competent.

You are up a gum tree fighting a silly cause.

http://englishwithjo.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/gumtree.jpg

[maddog42]

Let's agree right now that voter fraud of this type is very rare. So what? I so stipulate that it is true, and yet I still support the idea of voter ID.

I think if you are going to post article after article, they should show how this is going to suppress votes from legitimate voters as you say -- that would be much more likely to convince somebody to change their mind.

Again, maybe someone can tell me why we have voter registration at all? THAT suppresses voting far more than an ID check to make sure you are the person on the registered voter list. Why not just have open polling places where anybody can come in and vote without even giving a name, let alone an ID? Think of the the turnout!

I took it for granted that most here had seen my other articles posted.Hard to read everything here on PA.

"As many as 700,000 minority voters under age 30 may be unable to cast a ballot in November because of photo ID laws in certain states, according to a new study. The lower turnout could affect several House races as well as the tight presidential contest".

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57511312/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/

Study finds costs associated with voter IDs



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/study-finds-costs-associated-with-voter-ids/2012/07/17/gJQAlrcXsW_story.html

Can anyone say Poll tax? The cost of obtaining these ID's are often more than the Poll taxes charged in the 50's.

[Tom]

The hell with Dreyfuss....KRAMER says you got no ID, you got no vote.

[Tom]

Can anyone say Poll tax? The cost of obtaining these ID's are often more than the Poll taxes charged in the 50's.

So we issue government photo ID to every citizen.
The money for this comes out the check Obrainless wants to send to Egypt.
And Libyia, and Syria, and............

[Tom]

"So you just walked in an voted? Superman, you're an illegal ALIEN! How could they let you vote?

"They asked my who I was and I said Sienfeld, and then I showed them my "S". They let me vote. It was easy!

[bigmack]

"As many as 700,000 minority voters under age 30 may be unable to cast a ballot in November because of photo ID laws in certain states, according to a new study. The lower turnout could affect several House races as well as the tight presidential contest".
If you pulled your head out of Arianna Huffington's can you might find your numbers are from outer space.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/EverythingYouveEverWantedtoKnowAboutVoterIDLaws-ProPublica.png

What happens if they don't have ID?

What happens if a voter can't show valid photo ID in these states?

These voters are entitled to a provisional ballot. To ensure their votes count, however, they must produce the mandatory ID within a certain time frame and affirm in person or writing they are the same individual who filled out a temporary ballot on Election Day.

Maddog's Mom: I'm bein' suppressed! I'm bein' suppressed!
Election Official: You can fill-out a provisional ballot.
Maddog's Mom: OH. Nevermind.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/VoterID-StateRequirements.png

[horses4courses]

horses4courses

You live in Nevada.

An ID card in your State costs $12 for people between 18-64.
65 and older costs $7.

If you are homeless that fee can be waived.

http://www.dmv.org/nv-nevada/id-cards.php#Replacing-Your-ID-Card

How much lower do you want the fees to be?

Just to set the record straight, I live in California.

[Greyfox]

Just to set the record straight, I live in California.

Fees for California for ID cards are, like other prices in that State, higher - $26.
Over 62 - no charge.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/fees/idCard_fees.htm

[maddog42]

You are wrong if you think that the 25% of seniors with no ID have no brains.

[Greyfox]

You are wrong if you think that the 25% of seniors with no ID have no brains.

Anyone, of any adult age, who does not have ID has no brains.

(I think that if you had the inside info on aged residents in that Camden Care Center that you have cited, you would find that many have been determined to be mentally incompetent. The administrator is not allowed to share that kind of information with you. Show me where 25% of Seniors in the general population don't carry ID.)

[GameTheory]

These laws are new, of course everybody doesn't have the required cards. They should go get them -- if they can't pay they can get them for free. There are organizations lined up to help them get their ids. Anybody that wants to get an ID can get an ID right now, today. What's stopping them?

Most 18 year olds can't vote. Why? Cause they just turned 18 and they haven't registered yet! Are they being "suppressed"? Solution? 18 year olds should go register.

What do you have that shows that someone otherwise intending on voting will not be able to? Are people being DENIED ids?

[bigmack]

These laws are new, of course everybody doesn't have the required cards. They should go get them -- if they can't pay they can get them for free. There are organizations lined up to help them get their ids. Anybody that wants to get an ID can get an ID right now, today. What's stopping them?
You get a guy like maddog... Gets worked up reading HEAVILY JADED propaganda from HuffPost. Decides to come in here & debate a non-issue.

Any LOGICAL thinking person would make arrangements to GET HIS MA AN ID. :bang:

Case closed.

[maddog42]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html

Jim Greer, former Chair of the Florida Republican Party.

After an electoral spanking last cycle that was largely the backlash to neoconservative overreaches in the Bush Jr. years, Republicans were reflecting on how to deal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#) with the surge of new and minority voters. "I sat in on many meetings where it was discussed how to make sure what happened in 2008, when Obama brought out the college-aged voters, the minority voters, never happened again" said Jim Greer (http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/48601857#48601857).

Greer talked about how he was invited into many discussions as the head of the GOP in Florida, so he knows where some particularly rotten bodies are buried. There were discussions that early voting was going against Republicans, and so they should shorten it to prevent African American churches from organizing to bring out the vote for early voting. Greer had even given sworn deposition that there were discussions on suppression, but never once in his 3 1/2 years as GOP Chair of Florida had he seen a meeting on voter fraud (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#); he went so far as to call it a "marketing tool of radical Republicans (http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/48601857#48601857)" in state government.


There have been many attempts to shorten the voting hours in Florida. What kind of Rat Bastard wants to make it harder for people to vote? Republicans.


And you people wonder why I am upset?

We don't want them damn nig**rs voting, is what they really meant.


I am not naive. I know that Dems would probably act the same way if they could get by with it.




"Florida is required by the Voting Rights Act to offer a certain number of early voting hours, however, they tried to structure them in a way so as to discourage minority (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#) groups from voting. For example, they did away with early voting on the Sunday before the election, a time known for a huge black turnout because churches in the African American community push their voters to the polls that day; "Souls to the Polls (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/18/republican-voter-suppression-early-voting_n_1766172.html)" is what the churches call it."

[boxcar]

You are wrong if you think that the 25% of seniors with no ID have no brains.

Please explain to me how these seasoned citizens made it to this twilight stage of their life without any I.D. I can't wait to hear this.

Boxcar

[TJDave]

Look-up stats on how many people fly planes into skyscrapers and then ask yourself why EVERYBODY needs ID to get on a plane.



You know that I know, that you know...


The republican party engages in mostly legal voter suppression. Barely legal, but legal nonetheless. For us, suggesting a nobler purpose would be disingenuous. For others, it would be cause enough to suppress their vote. ;)

[HUSKER55]

if voter fraud is so low then why are they fighting it for? The dmv will make a photo id card for $4 (last time I checked). Over 62 is free.

medicare wants a photo because I had to give them one the last time I made a visit to the doctor.

so who are we worried about, illegals or felons?

Us old and/or disabled folks have to have one to see the doctor, the young ones probably have several and the ones in the middle are getting the bill so I would suspect they should be all for it.

Who does that leave?

[Greyfox]

if voter fraud is so low then why are they fighting it for? The dmv will make a photo id card for $4 (last time I checked). Over 62 is free.

medicare wants a photo because I had to give them one the last time I made a visit to the doctor.

so who are we worried about, illegals or felons?

Us old and/or disabled folks have to have one to see the doctor, the young ones probably have several and the ones in the middle are getting the bill so I would suspect they should be all for it.

Who does that leave?

maddog's Mom. Because he hasn't bothered to get her one.

[bigmack]

You are wrong if you think that the 25% of seniors with no ID have no brains.
Clearly, you're not very bright.

Where were you in 2003? And 2005? And 2006? And 2008? And 2010?

You don't ACTUALLY want me to eviserate you like I did when mostie eroneously posted that Republigan's purposefully demolished the USPS, do you?

Would you like to see how many D's voted for voter ID laws in all these states?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/999-5.png

Hang-up your little crusade. You're looking like a momo.

This type of work is best left for mostie & nj.

[TJDave]

if voter fraud is so low then why are they fighting it for? The dmv will make a photo id card for $4 (last time I checked). Over 62 is free.


Because, when a democrat poll worker picks up a van load of winos he shouldn't have to worry if they have ID, that's why.

[rastajenk]

I think all of you should work a poll on an Election Day, at least once. It's tedious, but it gives you an up-close look at how things really work. You'll like yourself better if you do it. :cool:

[GameTheory]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html

Jim Greer, former Chair of the Florida Republican Party.

After an electoral spanking last cycle that was largely the backlash to neoconservative overreaches in the Bush Jr. years, Republicans were reflecting on how to deal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#) with the surge of new and minority voters. "I sat in on many meetings where it was discussed how to make sure what happened in 2008, when Obama brought out the college-aged voters, the minority voters, never happened again" said Jim Greer (http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/48601857#48601857).

Greer talked about how he was invited into many discussions as the head of the GOP in Florida, so he knows where some particularly rotten bodies are buried. There were discussions that early voting was going against Republicans, and so they should shorten it to prevent African American churches from organizing to bring out the vote for early voting. Greer had even given sworn deposition that there were discussions on suppression, but never once in his 3 1/2 years as GOP Chair of Florida had he seen a meeting on voter fraud (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#); he went so far as to call it a "marketing tool of radical Republicans (http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/48601857#48601857)" in state government.


There have been many attempts to shorten the voting hours in Florida. What kind of Rat Bastard wants to make it harder for people to vote? Republicans.


And you people wonder why I am upset?

We don't want them damn nig**rs voting, is what they really meant.


I am not naive. I know that Dems would probably act the same way if they could get by with it.




"Florida is required by the Voting Rights Act to offer a certain number of early voting hours, however, they tried to structure them in a way so as to discourage minority (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#) groups from voting. For example, they did away with early voting on the Sunday before the election, a time known for a huge black turnout because churches in the African American community push their voters to the polls that day; "Souls to the Polls (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/18/republican-voter-suppression-early-voting_n_1766172.html)" is what the churches call it."Nothing in here about Voter ID, so it is a separate argument. Yes, you'll say, but it is all part of a strategy to suppress voters. Again to which I respond "so stipulated". I agree. So what? Intentions are not consequences, consequences are. Please show me how anyone with the legal right to vote and the intention to do so will be prevented. Again, anyone that wants an ID can go get one right now today -- there are even people that will pick them up and take them there just for that purpose and then bring them home again. I know these potential voters are not too busy at their jobs or anything because they don't have jobs (you need an ID to get a job). You might be able to make a reasonable argument that since the law is too new, it shouldn't be implemented for this election, but then you've have to agree that there would be no reason not to implement it next time. Are you rejecting the entire idea on principle, or just as a practical matter?

[maddog42]

Anyone, of any adult age, who does not have ID has no brains.

(I think that if you had the inside info on aged residents in that Camden Care Center that you have cited, you would find that many have been determined to be mentally incompetent. The administrator is not allowed to share that kind of information with you. Show me where 25% of Seniors in the general population don't carry ID.)

I already have.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/pennsylvania-voter-id-law-elderly_n_1934063.html

[maddog42]

Clearly, you're not very bright.

Where were you in 2003? And 2005? And 2006? And 2008? And 2010?

You don't ACTUALLY want me to eviserate you like I did when mostie eroneously posted that Republigan's purposefully demolished the USPS, do you?

Would you like to see how many D's voted for voter ID laws in all these states?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/999-5.png

Hang-up your little crusade. You're looking like a momo.

This type of work is best left for mostie & nj.

I haven't seen you eviscerate Mostie ever. I have seen him spank your bottom. Gee what an ugly image.

[TJDave]

Nothing in here about Voter ID, so it is a separate argument. Yes, you'll say, but it is all part of a strategy to suppress voters. Again to which I respond "so stipulated". I agree. So what? Intentions are not consequences, consequences are.

Interesting theory. However, suggesting a roadblock would only be effective if someone weren't able to negotiate it is a bit of a stretch, no?

[maddog42]

Nothing in here about Voter ID, so it is a separate argument. Yes, you'll say, but it is all part of a strategy to suppress voters. Again to which I respond "so stipulated". I agree. So what? Intentions are not consequences, consequences are. Please show me how anyone with the legal right to vote and the intention to do so will be prevented. Again, anyone that wants an ID can go get one right now today -- there are even people that will pick them up and take them there just for that purpose and then bring them home again. I know these potential voters are not too busy at their jobs or anything because they don't have jobs (you need an ID to get a job). You might be able to make a reasonable argument that since the law is too new, it shouldn't be implemented for this election, but then you've have to agree that there would be no reason not to implement it next time. Are you rejecting the entire idea on principle, or just as a practical matter?

Good question. I could probably tolerate a canadian style law if it was nationwide and great care was given to get everyone an ID over a period of years. The Pennsylvania law is probably the strictest anywhere and I could never support that.

[Greyfox]

I already have.



So you have. Your source is The Philadelphia Inquirer. :faint:

[Tom]

As a citizen of the USA, it my RIGHT to vote.
It is also my RESPONSIBILITY to prove I yam I yam and I yam a citizen.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Oh good, at the end of the day, we'll solve the problem by giving the federal government one more catch-all responsibility it wasn't intended to have. Can we also get rid of the electoral college, the powers granted states to actually hold the elections, and just hope that we can count on a singular body to do what's right with elections from now until eternity instead of having 50 bodies that handle it, some of which may screw up... Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but sailing down the road of putting elections under the thumb of the central body isn't a great way to deal with a fear that political treachery may be used to influence elections.

[rastajenk]

... if it was nationwide and great care was given to get everyone an ID over a period of years.
How about the "everyone" in your statement take the great care on themselves to get one? Individual responsibility vs. the Nanny State, the eternal argument.

[bigmack]

Last time this maddog was blowing a gasket on a subject he was HELLBENT on proving Terry Gilliam renounced his US citizenship as a result of Bush policies, when IN FACT, it was for tax porpoises.

As mentioned, NOT a bright bulb.

I wonder if he'll EVER get his Mama an ID and make this affront go away.

At least for her. :D

[maddog42]

if voter fraud is so low then why are they fighting it for? The dmv will make a photo id card for $4 (last time I checked). Over 62 is free.

medicare wants a photo because I had to give them one the last time I made a visit to the doctor.

so who are we worried about, illegals or felons?

Us old and/or disabled folks have to have one to see the doctor, the young ones probably have several and the ones in the middle are getting the bill so I would suspect they should be all for it.

Who does that leave?

My mom draws SS is on medicare and sees the Dr. regularly.She has NO photo ID. She goes to a family Doctor that we have known for 40 years.
She hasn't had a valid drivers license in 10 years.

[maddog42]

Last time this maddog was blowing a gasket on a subject he was HELLBENT on proving Terry Gilliam renounced his US citizenship as a result of Bush policies, when IN FACT, it was for tax porpoises.

As mentioned, NOT a bright bulb.

I wonder if he'll EVER get his Mama an ID and make this affront go away.

At least for her. :D

Of course that is one reason that Gilliam renounced his citizenship. The other
is George Bush and Cheney. You be the judge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNOvmQuyT8M

[TJDave]

It is also my RESPONSIBILITY to prove I yam I yam and I yam a citizen.

Where do it say that?

Also, where do it say only citizens can vote?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Where do it say that?

Also, where do it say only citizens can vote?

Uh oh, you opening a whole big cans of worms now...

:cool:

[bigmack]

She hasn't had a valid drivers license in 10 years.
Don't they let you out of the institution?

So GO GET HER ONE.

[ArlJim78]

Where do it say that?

Also, where do it say only citizens can vote?
state law

[maddog42]

Don't they let you out of the institution?

So GO GET HER ONE.

Occasionally they will loose the leather restraints, lower the medication levels,
put on the manacles and let me go out in public, sort of like Lecter in Silence of The Lambs. This is humiliating so I prefer to stay here in my cage and type out crazy radical posts with my nose.

My Mom does what she wants. If she told me to take her to China, I would. At 95 she is not afraid of me (or any other sibling) or the grim reaper himself.
If she doesn't want an ID it is ok with me.I try to respect her wishes.

I have encouraged her to vote in the past, and sometimes she does (cancelling out my vote). I don't think she likes either candidate, and I understand that.

[bigmack]

I have encouraged her to vote in the past, and sometimes she does (cancelling out my vote). I don't think she likes either candidate, and I understand that.
Well lookie there, you don't even have skin in the game. :D

When do you think you'll stop reading HuffPost propaganda and actually stop to learn something from the responses you've had here?

We try & help the confused, like yourself, but some are too far gone.

[GameTheory]

Good question. I could probably tolerate a canadian style law if it was nationwide and great care was given to get everyone an ID over a period of years. The Pennsylvania law is probably the strictest anywhere and I could never support that.The one that is blocked? There is no Pennsylvania law in effect. If it is in-fact found to be an undue burden, then it is blocked, as it is now. This is an example of the system working, no?

[GameTheory]

Interesting theory. However, suggesting a roadblock would only be effective if someone weren't able to negotiate it is a bit of a stretch, no?I think we are on a different wavelength here. I didn't offer a theory in the portion you quoted, nor can I make sense of your response.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The one that is blocked? There is no Pennsylvania law in effect. If it is in-fact found to be an undue burden, then it is blocked, as it is now. This is an example of the system working, no?

I was going to ask the same thing. How does someone object to an example of the system working exactly as it should in addressing precisely the outlined concerns of the law?

[maddog42]

Well lookie there, you don't even have skin in the game. :D

When do you think you'll stop reading HuffPost propaganda and actually stop to learn something from the responses you've had here?

We try & help the confused, like yourself, but some are too far gone.

Thanks Mack, it's nice to know an expert on propaganda is available to me.
Just because I don't like Obama that much, doesn't mean he isn't light years ahead of an elitist SOB like Romney. If there was ever a pawn of the rich it is Romney. Besides I still owe Obama a great debt. His health care reform is still
a triumph. If the Dems had put forth this voter ID/voter suppression crap I would be voting Republican.

[bigmack]

If the Dems had put forth this voter ID/voter suppression crap I would be voting Republican.
I don't think either camp would jump for joy over your questionably derived vote in either direction.

DO get around to addressing the concerns of GT & JHS, being the PA legislation was HALTED.

Now, what's your beef?

[JustRalph]

Dave's point about the winos is valid. Another issue comes into play. There is a very large portion of the black community that refuse to carry identification. Mostly the men, but women also.

They let their ID's expire also. They live in the underground economy mostly. It does exist. Take my word for it. They don't own a car, have no insurance and refuse to carry ID for one reason.

They are wanted by the police.

For everything from child support to murder. In many states if you go to renew your drivers license, a computer check for warrants is automatic. Recently in Maryland my wife was detained at the DMV for warrants when changing her drivers license from NC to MD. She has a very common name and the State Trooper assigned at the Dmv was able to verify she was not the wanted party. But she was legally detained.

In some states you cannot obtain a drivers license when you owe child support at a certain level. Any outstanding tickets will keep you from renewing your license in many states etc.

This whacks out a huge portion of the Democratic base. That's the secret nobody is willing to bring up. They talk about old ladies not being able to vote. When in reality they are worried about blacks and Hispanics not being able to vote. Don't fall for the old lady argument.

Dems would never propose the law. Repubs know they don't get hurt by it.

[ElKabong]

In the coming days I will post article after article showing how rare voter fraud is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU&noredirect=1

Why post article after article about voter fraud, when 1,000 words of voter intimidation is staring you in the face? Atty General Holder said this type of intimidation was ok......so the whining I hear from the left falls on deaf ears here. Sorry, if you aren't interested in fixing one real problem, don't talk to me about another one that's easily solved. Okie-dokey?

[rastajenk]

If there was ever a pawn of the rich it is Romney.
This is laughable.

Why would a rich guy want to be a pawn for other rich folks' evil devices? He is "the rich."

The other guy, on the other hand, seems to have courted Wall St fairly successfully, in spite of the socialist/populist rhetoric. So who really is the "pawn" in this game?

[PaceAdvantage]

So Obama isn't elitist and Obama isn't rich?

Really?

Could have fooled me Mr. maddog42.

He sure seems elitist, and I KNOW he's rich...I've seen his tax returns.

[Tom]

Obama:


Elitist.............check
Rich..............check
Amercian........let me CHECK.

[maddog42]

So Obama isn't elitist and Obama isn't rich?

Really?

Could have fooled me Mr. maddog42.

He sure seems elitist, and I KNOW he's rich...I've seen his tax returns.

"Just how rich is Mitt Romney? Add up the wealth (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/28/how-rich-is-romney/#) of the last eight presidents, from Richard Nixon to Barack Obama. Then double that number. Now you’re in Romney territory."


http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/28/how-rich-is-romney/

Rast and PA you guys are quite right. Pawn was a bad choice of words. Obama is small potatoes as this article shows.

"He would be among the richest presidents in American history if elected — probably in the top four."

It is not my fondness(tolerance?) for Obama that drives me, it is my dislike for republicans.

[maddog42]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU&noredirect=1

Why post article after article about voter fraud, when 1,000 words of voter intimidation is staring you in the face? Atty General Holder said this type of intimidation was ok......so the whining I hear from the left falls on deaf ears here. Sorry, if you aren't interested in fixing one real problem, don't talk to me about another one that's easily solved. Okie-dokey?

Are you afraid of black people? Texas has plenty of blacks on its football team and I don't think you are a racist.

[horses4courses]

[QUOTE=maddog42 it is my dislike for republicans.[/QUOTE]

Now, how could anyone in their right mind not like a republican? :rolleyes:

[ArlJim78]

do any of you people who are so concerned about the election process and fairness have any concern about Obama taking millions in illegal foreign donations? where's the outrage over that?

[bigmack]

It is not my fondness(tolerance?) for Obama that drives me, it is my dislike for republicans.
That's how we see mental defectives like you & horses4courses coming a mile a way.

Riddled with utter resentment and hatred. MIGHTY hilarious to see. :lol:

[maddog42]

The one that is blocked? There is no Pennsylvania law in effect. If it is in-fact found to be an undue burden, then it is blocked, as it is now. This is an example of the system working, no?

This is certainly an example of the system working. These laws are getting struck down and put on hold right and left. I want to give examples of just how racist republicans can be. Let me repost this:

"Greer talked about how he was invited into many discussions as the head of the GOP in Florida, so he knows where some particularly rotten bodies are buried. There were discussions that early voting was going against Republicans, and so they should shorten it to prevent African American (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-campbell/voter-suppression-in-florida_b_1840793.html#) churches from organizing to bring out the vote for early voting. Greer had even given sworn deposition that there were discussions on suppression, but never once in his 3 1/2 years as GOP Chair of Florida had he seen a meeting on voter fraud; he went so far as to call it a "marketing tool of radical Republicans (http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/48601857#48601857)" in state government. "


Florida is required by the Voting Rights Act to offer a certain number of early voting hours, however, they tried to structure them in a way so as to discourage minority groups from voting. For example, they did away with early voting on the Sunday before the election, a time known for a huge black turnout because churches in the African American community push their voters to the polls that day; "Souls to the Polls (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/18/republican-voter-suppression-early-voting_n_1766172.html)" is what the churches call it. Republicans know that they won't get more than single digits of that vote, so they want to do away with it as much as they can, cutting down on voter hours and doing away with the Sunday before Election Day to hamstring the Souls. The courts struck this down, finding that it didn't offer the time required (http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/08/21/49479.htm) to safeguard the vote from racist rednecks by the Voting Rights Act.

So here is the former head repub of Florida saying that Voter fraud is a
"marketing tool" of radical republicans. In a deposition no less.
A good republican friend of mine said that Repubs aren't racist. That they are merely trying to suppress the vote of anybody that would vote for Obama and they just happen to be black and poor people.

Right.

[Tom]

do any of you people who are so concerned about the election process and fairness have any concern about Obama taking millions in illegal foreign donations? where's the outrage over that?

It's not like they do not know about the security codes on credit cards - they require it for merchandise purchases.

Romney's campaign requires it on ALL transactions.

Funny how dems are NEVER concerned about ANYTHING their side does, no?:rolleyes:

[horses4courses]

That's how we see mental defectives like you & horses4courses coming a mile a way.

Riddled with utter resentment and hatred. MIGHTY hilarious to see. :lol:

And you're just oozing love and fondness for your fellow man - touching.

[ArlJim78]

since this is the offical voter fraud thread, I guess this story belongs here.

Obama campaign staffer caught helping activist vote twice (http://Obama campaign staffer caught helping activist vote twice)

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/10/new-okeefe-video-obama-campaign-staffer-caught-helping-activist-vote-twice/#ixzz28uTBhkl7


Videographer James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas caught an official for President
Barack Obama’s re-election campaign helping who she thought was an Obama
supporter set herself up to vote more than once in November.

[maddog42]

And you're just oozing love and fondness for your fellow man - touching.

Just because he calls you a mental defective doesn't mean he doesn't love you . I can FEEL the love coming through in every bigmack post.

Even when he says you are not a "bright bulb".
Even when he says you are "institutionalized".
Even when he calls you "confused".
Even when he calls you "not very bright"
Even when he calls you "propellerhead"

These are the expressions of love he used in just this thread about me.

How many insults and statements of contempt has Bigmack made over the
years just here on PA. Hundreds? Thousands? I think he is the KING and worthy of respect.

[GameTheory]

So here is the former head repub of Florida saying that Voter fraud is a "marketing tool" of radical republicans. In a deposition no less.
A good republican friend of mine said that Repubs aren't racist. That they are merely trying to suppress the vote of anybody that would vote for Obama and they just happen to be black and poor people.

Right.Actually, that makes perfect sense, so you'll have to justify your racist claim with more than a sarcastic quip. And still this doesn't touch on the voter ID laws -- you still haven't shown anything that indicates anyone who intends to vote (and is entitled to) will be blocked from doing so (or unduly burdened). You've just got post after post that really just says that you are personally pissed at the Republicans cynical ploys to get more votes for themselves and less for Democrats. Why not be pissed at both parties for same -- surely you've seen the examples of the Dems own underhanded attempts to get illegal votes and intimidate potential Republican voters?

[bigmack]

These are the expressions of love he used in just this thread about me.
Difference with me, I loathe imbeciles. I don't play partisan garbage games. If you're an R and an idiot, I got no time for you. If you're a D and bright, I got the time. I got your number as well as that other dolt. Resentful, angry nerds who DESPISE others for a political party. :lol:

NOW. Let's see what a genius you are and FINALLY address this post which is the essence of your MAJOR WHINE.

The one that is blocked? There is no Pennsylvania law in effect. If it is in-fact found to be an undue burden, then it is blocked, as it is now. This is an example of the system working, no?

[maddog42]

Actually, that makes perfect sense, so you'll have to justify your racist claim with more than a sarcastic quip. And still this doesn't touch on the voter ID laws -- you still haven't shown anything that indicates anyone who intends to vote (and is entitled to) will be blocked from doing so (or C). You've just got post after post that really just says that you are personally pissed at the Republicans cynical ploys to get more votes for themselves and less for Democrats. Why not be pissed at both parties for same -- surely you've seen the examples of the Dems own underhanded attempts to get illegal votes and intimidate potential Republican voters?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-18/news/sns-rt-us-usa-campaign-voteridbre86h1o0-20120718_1_new-voter-id-laws-keesha-gaskins-high-voter-turnout

The new report described how state-run ID offices are open at irregular hours, such as one in Wisconsin that is open only on the fifth Wednesday of every month even though there are only four months of the year that have five Wednesdays.

Four days a year to get your voter ID? Sounds like "unduly burdened" to me.

"States with such laws are required to provide free photo IDs to eligible voters who do not have one, but the costs of obtaining birth certificates (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-18/news/sns-rt-us-usa-campaign-voteridbre86h1o0-20120718_1_new-voter-id-laws-keesha-gaskins-high-voter-turnout#) and other needed documentation, along with travel to the ID office, make it difficult for some voters, the report said."


"Voters who do not have their birth certificates (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/study-finds-costs-associated-with-voter-ids/2012/07/17/gJQAlrcXsW_story.html#) or marriage licenses may have to pay additional costs because those documents are required to obtain a photo ID in some cases.

The report said birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required in some states for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. “By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/study-finds-costs-associated-with-voter-ids/2012/07/17/gJQAlrcXsW_story.html#),” the report states."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/study-finds-costs-associated-with-voter-ids/2012/07/17/gJQAlrcXsW_story.html

This is a war of attrition. If you put enough blocks( and expense) in the way of minority and poor voters, then you will block a certain small percentage.

This is what Republicans are banking on.
There are reports of people having to pay much more money than this to get needed documents, and I will post them later.

[Tom]

Our ancestors braved sailing across the sea, settling in unknown lands, with no certainty of either food or safety. The braved the wilderness, wild animals, Indians, starvation, all to be free and have the right to vote.

All I can say is damn good thing they didn't have cameras back then, or the need to have ID would have sent them packing back to England. :lol::lol::lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Our ancestors braved sailing across the sea, settling in unknown lands, with no certainty of either food or safety. The braved the wilderness, wild animals, Indians, starvation, all to be free and have the right to vote.

All I can say is damn good thing they didn't have cameras back then, or the need to have ID would have sent them packing back to England. :lol::lol::lol:

I try not to let my true colors shine sometimes, but I was literally having this same reaction reading some of this.

It's amazing to think of the lengths that people would go to do what they thought was right at one point in our time. Now we have society that starts breaking down in tears because Judy is going to die of pancreatic cancer if Obamacare isn't passed.

Someone get Judy on an airplane to Massachussetts for cripessake. It'll take 90 minutes to get her there. Hell, by car she could be there in at most a couple of days from most states.

Every time you come with something resembling a reasonable solution, there's always another sob story about "a man I know in..." that can't do this or that. Well, stop talking for money, get that man on your fancy airplane and take him to whereever he needs to go if its so traumatic your entire campaign hinges on it.

So completely sick of all the frigging whining about how tough life is in general... and we get examples of racism that revolve around a guy that has four years to get an ID, but only has a handful of days a year to do it under the most convenient of circumstances. You know what, move from whatever hellhole in Wisconsin you live in if this is the most important thing in your life. Move to Massachussetts and take Judy with you - they'll take care of all your problems there.

Okay... back to trying to be reasonable.

[GameTheory]

The new report described how state-run ID offices are open at irregular hours, such as one in Wisconsin that is open only on the fifth Wednesday of every month even though there are only four months of the year that have five Wednesdays.Ahhh...there you go, an actual relevant data point. Very good. Isn't it fun to provide evidence instead of just hot air? Of course the challenges are still all over this -- I suspect access will have to be much broadened for this one to hold up.

"States with such laws are required to provide free photo IDs to eligible voters who do not have one, but the costs of obtaining birth certificates (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-18/news/sns-rt-us-usa-campaign-voteridbre86h1o0-20120718_1_new-voter-id-laws-keesha-gaskins-high-voter-turnout#) and other needed documentation, along with travel to the ID office, make it difficult for some voters, the report said."


"Voters who do not have their birth certificates (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/study-finds-costs-associated-with-voter-ids/2012/07/17/gJQAlrcXsW_story.html#) or marriage licenses may have to pay additional costs because those documents are required to obtain a photo ID in some cases.

The report said birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required in some states for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. “By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/study-finds-costs-associated-with-voter-ids/2012/07/17/gJQAlrcXsW_story.html#),” the report states."This stuff is a bit trickier. The burden of costs is a real concern, but let's put on its head. If someone has NO documentation, and can't show they are a citizen, isn't it common sense that they shouldn't be voting? Not in the modern world. I mean, maybe if our borders weren't wide open and we actually knew who was in this country, but nowadays just being here doesn't prove anything. Can we agree on that -- that only actual citizens should vote? And that you shouldn't be able to vote multiple times in different jurisdictions, etc? Ok, so then we've got to have a mechanism for keeping track of who's who and that they are who they say they are and that they only vote in one place, preferably where they actually live. Right? So what's your proposal? There are costs and trade-offs with ANY policy -- you can't just look at one side.

[TJDave]

Nobody wants to go to that much trouble just to vote. ;)

[Tom]

Oh yeah, I think you're wrong.
Show of hands........?



Oh, dang,never mind.

[maddog42]

Ahhh...there you go, an actual relevant data point. Very good. Isn't it fun to provide evidence instead of just hot air? Of course the challenges are still all over this -- I suspect access will have to be much broadened for this one to hold up.

This stuff is a bit trickier. The burden of costs is a real concern, but let's put on its head. If someone has NO documentation, and can't show they are a citizen, isn't it common sense that they shouldn't be voting? Not in the modern world. I mean, maybe if our borders weren't wide open and we actually knew who was in this country, but nowadays just being here doesn't prove anything. Can we agree on that -- that only actual citizens should vote? And that you shouldn't be able to vote multiple times in different jurisdictions, etc? Ok, so then we've got to have a mechanism for keeping track of who's who and that they are who they say they are and that they only vote in one place, preferably where they actually live. Right? So what's your proposal? There are costs and trade-offs with ANY policy -- you can't just look at one side.


Glad you brought it up. It is so nice to debate issues and not just parry
insults. The costs for some counties are considerable. It seems republicans are willing to spend a lot of money to implement these rules that prevent minorities from voting.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20839185/ramsey-county-voter-id-bill-could-reach-1
"Politics aside, Ramsey County elections officials have a big concern about Minnesota's proposed voter ID amendment on the ballot this fall: money (http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20839185/ramsey-county-voter-id-bill-could-reach-1#).

"Elections Manager Joe Mansky said that if voters approve the amendment, the county would have to spend up to $1.7 million to install polling place computers (http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20839185/ramsey-county-voter-id-bill-could-reach-1#) and educate voters about the photo ID requirements.

Meanwhile, cities would pay an additional $200,000 for elections judges, ballot boxes and training, Mansky told county commissioners Tuesday, June 12."


This is probably not a typical example.

"But in Ohio, where lawmakers are considering a strict photo-ID requirement, one think-tank took a different approach: Just how much will this whole thing cost?

Turns out quite a bit. According to a report from Policy Matters Ohio, the measure would likely cost the state up to $7 million."

http://prospect.org/article/voter-ids-7-million-ohio-price-tag (https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:CampaignPublic/id:1408121.11022896486/rid:f5718874261894b6c60bf11dbfc730ec)


(https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:CampaignPublic/id:1408121.11022896486/rid:f5718874261894b6c60bf11dbfc730ec)

[maddog42]

Ahhh...there you go, an actual relevant data point. Very good. Isn't it fun to provide evidence instead of just hot air? Of course the challenges are still all over this -- I suspect access will have to be much broadened for this one to hold up.

This stuff is a bit trickier. The burden of costs is a real concern, but let's put on its head. If someone has NO documentation, and can't show they are a citizen, isn't it common sense that they shouldn't be voting? Not in the modern world. I mean, maybe if our borders weren't wide open and we actually knew who was in this country, but nowadays just being here doesn't prove anything. Can we agree on that -- that only actual citizens should vote? And that you shouldn't be able to vote multiple times in different jurisdictions, etc? Ok, so then we've got to have a mechanism for keeping track of who's who and that they are who they say they are and that they only vote in one place, preferably where they actually live. Right? So what's your proposal? There are costs and trade-offs with ANY policy -- you can't just look at one side.


I have provided a TON of evidence. Just not the evidence You wanted to see.

[maddog42]

"The fight over voter identification laws generally gets debated over two major questions. 1) How important is it to stop in-person fraudulent voting (despite virtually no evidence that this is a problem)? And 2) How important is it to protect access to the ballot, particularly for those who have faced discrimination in the past?"


http://prospect.org/article/voter-ids-7-million-ohio-price-tag

This article is about cost in Ohio.

[Greyfox]

I have provided a TON of evidence. Just not the evidence You wanted to see.

You've provided a TON of evidence that you don't care about the identities of who votes.

[GameTheory]

How important is it to stop in-person fraudulent voting (despite virtually no evidence that this is a problem)?Fair enough, but in truth since there is no id requirements where would such evidence come from? How do you find evidence of a crime that leaves no trace? A more truthful description is that we have no earthly idea how much fraud there is -- could be a lot, could be a little, we have no idea. You can hardly rely on the idea that we know political operatives to be scrupulously honest and above board in all matters whether anyone is watching or not. Certainly we know of SOME cases of fraud, and organized fraud at that. Do they represent the totality of the problem or just the tip of the iceberg? Without oversight, nobody knows.

How important is it to protect access to the ballot, particularly for those who have faced discrimination in the past?Do you agree with the second part of that, which hints at the idea that the votes of minorities are actually MORE important than the votes of anyone else? You act like their are EXTRA hoops certain people will have to jump through, but the rules are the same for everybody. The rest of us already needed to get an id for some other reason, and we all had to wait in line with our birth certificates and marriage certificates or whatever to do so. And we have to show that id constantly to navigate society. It isn't like all that stuff was provided to us without cost or effort and we are just leaving out some people. The level of burden is the same -- we've just done it already. If you argue for a delayed implementation, like the ruling from South Carolina that just came down (law upheld, but not in effect until next year), then I'm with you. But the idea that just having to prove who you are and getting an id somehow goes to far to tip the scales against the "access" side -- no way, it is perfectly reasonable.

So we have to balance protecting the integrity of the ballot with the ability to cast those ballots. Is there a perfect answer? Probably not, it just depends on where your priorities lie. But when you start judging the motives behind the policy rather than the policy itself, you are just letting your personal anger at certain individuals and groups guide your judgement of what is fair/unfair just/unjust, and that's no way to make sound judgements.

[ElKabong]

Are you afraid of black people? Texas has plenty of blacks on its football team and I don't think you are a racist.

No. And why would you ask?

Apparently you didn't watch the vid. Blatant intimidation. If these guys were white with hoods how do you think that would go over? Intimidation w/b the first thing people screamed, followed by the obvious racial aspect....but you have no problem with what you saw in the video...Interesting.

As racebook Joe said to Mosty in another topic, "sorry, you don't think that was {intimidation} so I can't take you seriously"

Go on with your "where's the voter fraud that justifies voter ID" narrative.

[ElKabong]

[QUOTE=maddog42

In the coming days I will post article after article showing how rare voter fraud is.[/QUOTE]

Timing is everything. Yours, sucks.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/10/new-okeefe-video-obama-campaign-staffer-caught-helping-activist-vote-twice/

Obama campaign staffer caught helping activist vote twice

[Tom]

I have provided a TON of evidence. Just not the evidence You wanted to see.

You need to understand the difference between evidence and opinions.

[maddog42]

Timing is everything. Yours, sucks.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/10/new-okeefe-video-obama-campaign-staffer-caught-helping-activist-vote-twice/

Obama campaign staffer caught helping activist vote twice


So republicans have very little evidence of voter fraud so they try to
"create" some. The send a sweet young thing to entrap this Dim Democrat.
During the first visit she tells the gal to just vote in Florida, because her vote in Texas will be wasted. She doesn't take the bait that time so she has to go back again to ensnare this poor dumb, immoral girl. This is all you repubs got to prove widespread voter fraud ? Pathetic. I mean it. You guys are desperate.

[JustRalph]

Please watch these vids

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/10/new-project-veritas-vids-say-obama-staffer-is-it-okay-if-i-vote-twice/

Okeefe, again

[ElKabong]

MADDOG> So republicans have very little evidence of voter fraud so they try to "create" some. The send a sweet young thing to entrap this Dim Democrat.


'Yeah sure, here are more registration forms!' she says to the guy that says he's voting in both NY and Minnesota ....off he goes with extra Forms, lol

No lookie ova heeya. We no fraudy election system.

Pardon me if I demand my representatives push for Voter ID.

[maddog42]

http://www.chron.com/opinion/king/article/King-It-s-time-to-move-beyond-debate-over-voter-3860887.php

Here is a fellow that is totally in favor of Voter ID, that finds it inexcusable
that many of the elderly will be excluded.


"There is one aspect of the Texas voter ID law that I find troubling. That is its failure to include an exemption for senior citizens. Notwithstanding that the state of Texas could not match 800,000 voters with a driver's license, I find it very difficult to believe that there are going to be many people who show up to vote who will not have a driver's license, with one exception. That exception is older Texans who have stopped driving. The Legislature's failure to provide an exception for this group is inexcusable."

My own miniscule sampling of people over 80 here in oklahoma is showing over 50% do not have photo ID. I have only asked 7 people at my moms
assisted living center and this may not be representative, but 4 of the 7
did not drive and had no form of government issued photo ID. Why should they? Many of them got on SS and medicare years ago when they still had drivers licenses. They haven't needed a photo ID until now.

Some of you people on this board need to back off about the elderly not being affected because you are dead wrong.

[Tom]

Some of you people on this board need to back off about the elderly not being affected because you are dead wrong.

:sleeping: Some people need to stop whining and start thinking. :sleeping:

[maddog42]

:sleeping: Some people need to stop whining and start thinking. :sleeping:

Some people need to stop sniping and start CARING about the elderly and their rights.

[Tom]

I care about their right to vote, and their right not to have their votes nullified by illegal votes. Getting an ID to our citizens is such a simple task....to anyone willing to get their head out of their butts long enough to breath the fresh air.

[bigmack]

Some of you people on this board need to back off about the elderly not being affected because you are dead wrong.
Or what? :lol:

[Greyfox]

Some people need to stop sniping and start CARING about the elderly and their rights.

No one has suggested taking any rights away from the elderly, or citizens of any age group.

[maddog42]

Clearly, you're not very bright.

Where were you in 2003? And 2005? And 2006? And 2008? And 2010?

You don't ACTUALLY want me to eviserate you like I did when mostie eroneously posted that Republigan's purposefully demolished the USPS, do you?

Would you like to see how many D's voted for voter ID laws in all these states?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/999-5.png

Hang-up your little crusade. You're looking like a momo.

This type of work is best left for mostie & nj.

Unfortunately for you not all of those states above have STRICT voter ID laws. The states that do are almost all Republican controlled.

"So what important goal justifies these laws despite the voters they may disenfranchise? Supporters of these laws — which were all, except Rhode Island’s, proposed by Republicans and passed by GOP majorities — argue they combat voter fraud. But voter ID laws only counter in-person fraud, and this kind of fraud simply isn’t happening."

http://oudaily.com/news/2012/sep/26/ourviewID/

"A quick look at the voting record of the populations most affected by these laws reveals a more realistic reason these laws enjoy such support: These groups largely vote Democrat."

[bigmack]

Unfortunately for you not all of those states above have STRICT voter ID laws. The states that do are almost all Republican controlled.
Good boy. You're on a roll.

I'll give you a biscuit if you could tell me what states are R controlled, which states are a strict enforcement AND how many Dem's voted FOR VID legislation.

Good luck. Keep up the 'good' work. :ThmbUp:

[maddog42]

Actually, that makes perfect sense, so you'll have to justify your racist claim with more than a sarcastic quip. And still this doesn't touch on the voter ID laws -- you still haven't shown anything that indicates anyone who intends to vote (and is entitled to) will be blocked from doing so (or unduly burdened). You've just got post after post that really just says that you are personally pissed at the Republicans cynical ploys to get more votes for themselves and less for Democrats. Why not be pissed at both parties for same -- surely you've seen the examples of the Dems own underhanded attempts to get illegal votes and intimidate potential Republican voters?

You didn't think I was letting you off that easy did you?

Given the expense of obtaining documents required for an ID and the physical inconvenience — 81 of Texas’ 254 counties do not have a working driver’s-license office — it is not simple to get one."

http://oudaily.com/news/2012/sep/26/ourviewID/


"An estimated 25 percent of blacks, 20 percent of asians, 19 percent of Hispanics, 18 percent of the young and the elderly, and 15 percent of those earning less than $35,000 lack photo ID, according to the Brennan Center (http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id) for Justice at NYU’s School of law. Only 8 percent of white citizens lack ID."

[maddog42]

Good boy. You're on a roll.

I'll give you a biscuit if you could tell me what states are R controlled, which states are a strict enforcement AND how many Dem's voted FOR VID legislation.

Good luck. Keep up the 'good' work. :ThmbUp:

Duh? Biscuit? Maddog likie Biscuit!!
Cut to maddog sitting pretty like good dog with tongue lolling about.

[GameTheory]

Given the expense of obtaining documents required for an ID and the physical inconvenience — 81 of Texas’ 254 counties do not have a working driver’s-license office — it is not simple to get one."

http://oudaily.com/news/2012/sep/26/ourviewID/


"An estimated 25 percent of blacks, 20 percent of asians, 19 percent of Hispanics, 18 percent of the young and the elderly, and 15 percent of those earning less than $35,000 lack photo ID, according to the Brennan Center (http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id) for Justice at NYU’s School of law. Only 8 percent of white citizens lack ID."So is your problem with voter ID restrictions or the lack of ease of getting an ID? Like I said, it was just as difficult for the rest of us -- we all had to wait in line at one time or another to get our IDs, right? I didn't get one sent to me in the mail with my picture on it with no effort. Everyone is in the same boat. You cite all these people that don't have IDs cause they didn't need them before. I agree they don't have them, but now that they need them (like the other 90% of us), they should go get them. Duh. If it is made too difficult for them to get them, then that is what should change, not the idea that we should restrict voting to actual legitimate voters in their place of residence.

[maddog42]

So is your problem with voter ID restrictions or the lack of ease of getting an ID? Like I said, it was just as difficult for the rest of us -- we all had to wait in line at one time or another to get our IDs, right? I didn't get one sent to me in the mail with my picture on it with no effort. Everyone is in the same boat. You cite all these people that don't have IDs cause they didn't need them before. I agree they don't have them, but now that they need them (like the other 90% of us), they should go get them. Duh. If it is made too difficult for them to get them, then that is what should change, not the idea that we should restrict voting to actual legitimate voters in their place of residence.

Voter Fraud is largely imagined.More people are struck by lightning every year than are convicted of voter fraud. The articles that I have been posting state that no real evidence of voter fraud has been brought to light in these court cases. If they had real evidence they would show them in court. They have not. The republicans had to go out and manufacture it (entrap).
The infamous poll tax that southern racist states implemented in the pre 1965 era was actually cheaper than what many people have to pay(cost of berth certificate) to get ID's. The Voting act of 65 requires states with previous history of racism to get preapproval from the Justice department for changes to the voter laws. For instance the Justice department struck down the racist republican law that would ban voting( in Florida) the Sunday before an election. A tradition ( largely black churches) that goes back many years.
The very conservative fellow that I quoted in the Texas Id law article had a very good solution that would dispel a lot of my objections: Give seniors a pass. People above 70 stop driving and are the biggest part of the population that are discriminated against. They are often on very limited incomes and many times don't have an auto. There are many programs to get them to the polls, but I don't know of any to get them ID's. I predict that many don't know of the change( at least here in Oklahoma) and will raise hell in November. I honestly believe that the vast majority of people over 80 do not have a photo ID. The stat that was brought out before about +90% of people over 55 having ID may very well be true, but the people over 80 are a very small minority compared to the huge number of Baby boomers. Lies, damn lies and statistics....

[ElKabong]

Voter Fraud is largely imagined.

Imagine this....You view the Vids that I posted, and Ralph posted.....Imagination, realized. Voter fraud is too easy without photo ID presented at the polling place

[maddog42]

Imagine this....You view the Vids that I posted, and Ralph posted.....Imagination, realized. Voter fraud is too easy without photo ID presented at the polling place

Those videos are a hoot. I mean really silly. They prove nothing. You show me proof of widespread voter fraud. Credible voter fraud.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Voter Fraud is largely imagined....

I'll ask you the same thing I put forth to NJStinks since this seems to be the world's biggest issue for you on the one side of the equation.

If the two extreme ends - you on the one side - and those that believe that perception is reality and the perception of voter fraud is just another form of suppression - can meet in the middle and compromise with a plan that stipulates that states can only change current voting laws if they allow for a grace period and enough resources to bring all those willing to put forth a minimum, reasonable amount effort to be in compliance - would you support it?

I mean, hell, this one has a very easy solution. It's not a big issue if both sides just try to meet in the middle. If we can't address this the way we are supposed to problem solve, then the friggin' country is doomed.

[bigmack]

I mean, hell, this one has a very easy solution. It's not a big issue if both sides just try to meet in the middle. If we can't address this the way we are supposed to problem solve, then the friggin' country is doomed.
He's not interested in resolution. Some folk get off on ranting.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/panties.jpg

[johnhannibalsmith]

He's not interested in resolution. Some folk get off on ranting.

...

Then its not a real problem, it's a stunt.

[bigmack]

Then its not a real problem, it's a stunt.
Come on, a maroon can see how it could work. I ain't sayin' some of the timing isn't questionable, but put it on the books, iron out the wrinkles and don't even THINK about it being a SMART thing to be doing while NOT suppressin' nobody. I don't sleep well when peoples' suppressed.. :eek:

But, I WILL say this maddog has NO INTEREST in resolving this. He's the type that gets attached to a cause and needs to drill it to the ground, without paying attention to REASON along the rant. Currently, he's on what we call an "hcap flurry." You know, link after link from the same outlets supporting their position.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Simple fact is, this debate plays extremely well in both camps as a political underpinning for their stereotypes of the other camp. Both sides love this fight, they get to rile up their supporters and keep people calling one another names that they parlay into bigger gains on broader subjects. The fact that neither side even approaches this one from the position of how they can work together to make it work for everyone speaks volumes about just how big an issue it really is - it isn't - it's just a valuable component of a bigger scheme to raise money and stoke passions, while diffusing any serious thought about this subject or most others.

[bigmack]

Simple fact is, this debate plays extremely well in both camps as a political underpinning for their stereotypes of the other camp.
While I 'preciate a guy like you er GameT, in your ability to go 'Swiss' with neutrality, I don't see this being much of a hot button issue for most of one side. Like gay marriage, I don't see it as a big deal but somehow legislation keeps getting passed, SINCE 2003, in states moving towards AUTHENTICATING identity.

If ya Google this ABOMINATION (no it's SUPPRESSION) you have piles of articles just sitting there waiting for maddog & Co., to load into their pop guns. They're ginned-up. They'll get over it.

When it comes down to common sense, ya ask people - Ya think it's unreasonable to have to show ID to vote? Most say, not a problem.

It's a no-brainer. Sure logistics have to be worked out but let's get those people ID's. Or at least those that are voting. (Which ain't that much)

And as for this stereotypical thing you're talking about... I certainly hope you're not moving in some R's sat and figured blacks didn't have ID so they FRANTICALLY starting passing legislation. Or no, according to maddog it's the elderly. Yeah, that's right, they wanted to disenfranchise old people.

[maddog42]

He's not interested in resolution. Some folk get off on ranting.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/panties.jpg

I believe there is a solution. Change the Voting Rights Act. JHS came very close. Lower the cost of Birth certificates to $5 max. Put any new legislation
to go into effect in 5 years.Give seniors a pass on voter ID. I have already shown that this will cost at least 500 million nationwide. Whats another $500 mil. to a REAL conservative that has already committed to spend this to insure those 2000 (tops, actually the number is probably closer to 200 nationwide who engage in voter Id.fraud).

Really absurd. We may spend $500 mil nationwide to stop a virtually nonexistant crime that was trumped up by Repubs because Obama handed them their heads in 2008 with a high voter turnout of minorities. And in the mean time we stop a minimum of 300,000 from voting.

[maddog42]

http://www.chron.com/opinion/king/article/King-It-s-time-to-move-beyond-debate-over-voter-3860887.php

This fellow who I quoted earlier





"I also think that both parties have miscalculated the impact of their respective positions. First, the Democrats have alienated moderates who see voter ID as a reasonable safeguard, especially when they compare them to poll taxes, literacy tests and the like. But Republicans are probably the bigger loser. It is possible the group that will be most affected by the requirements are older voters who are somewhat more likely to vote Republican. Older voters who have given up their driver's licenses may decide it is just too much trouble to get an ID card.

But more importantly, the latest round of voter ID is just another nail in the coffin of Republicans wooing Latino voters. I continue to be amazed that the GOP does everything it can to alienate the fastest growing demographic group in the country and one, by the way, that is culturally inclined to agree with Republicans on a variety of issues."




He doesn't admit why Latinos are pissed.

[Greyfox]

Whats another $500 mil. to a REAL conservative ?

Give your head a shake.

Where does individual personal responsibility come in to play with respect to shelling out your own bucks for an ID?

The Government is already moving America towards bankruptcy partly because of people with attitudes like yours. The "Take Care of Me" sector is still alive and well and is reflected in your writings. :ThmbDown:

[maddog42]

Give your head a shake.

Where does individual personal responsibility come in to play with respect to shelling out your own bucks for an ID?

The Government is already moving America towards bankruptcy partly because of people with attitudes like yours. The "Take Care of Me" sector is still alive and well and is reflected in your writings. :ThmbDown:

I am trying to save you $500 million. We don't need these laws. YOU are the ones supporting these laws. This is a very, very conservative number on what it would cost nationwide to implement Voter ID. One county in Minnesota said it will cost 1 million to implement. There are over 2000 counties nationwide.
I don't really think Republicans are good at conserving.
And no I'm not going back in my posts to show you that Webpage. Look it up.
I thought conservatives believed in less government. I guess they don't believe that when they are trying to keep poor people,seniors and minorities from voting. Cost of doing business I guess.

[Tom]

Bartenders have been looking at ID for decades....no cost involved.
Duh.

[bigmack]

I don't really think Republicans are good at conserving.

I thought conservatives believed in less government. I guess they don't believe that when they are trying to keep poor people,seniors and minorities from voting.
PROVE, once and for all, NOT ONE democrat voted IN SUPPORT of VID legislation AND explain why R's would want to keep seniors from voting.

(This should be rich)

[maddog42]

PROVE, once and for all, NOT ONE democrat voted IN SUPPORT of VID legislation AND explain why R's would want to keep seniors from voting.

(This should be rich)

Many more Repubs voted for Voter ID than Dim Dems. A Democratic governor vetoed the first ID law here in Oklahoma, Then a woman Republican governor
came in and approved it. Why do you ask idiotic questions Mack? Keeping seniors from voting I am sure was not their intention, but an unintended
consequence. They were willing to throw the Seniors out like garbage to keep minorities and youths from voting. A very good trade-off in numbers. This makes their behavior even more despicable.

"So what important goal justifies these laws despite the voters they may disenfranchise? Supporters of these laws — which were all, except Rhode Island’s, proposed by Republicans and passed by GOP majorities — argue they combat voter fraud. But voter ID laws only counter in-person fraud, and this kind of fraud simply isn’t happening."

http://oudaily.com/news/2012/sep/26/ourviewID/

"A comprehensive analysis (http://votingrights.news21.com) of voter fraud carried out by News21, an investigative reporting project, revealed that only 10 cases of in-person voter fraud have been proven nationally since 2000. The study also found that 207 cases of other types of fraud existed for each in-person case. "

I have given quotes by Republicans stating that they weren't interested in fighting voter fraud only voter suppression.

More articles are coming folks.
Two years ago I would have voted for Voter ID's. I was wrong. The more I research the more I realize how vile Democrats and Republicans can be. But particularly Republicans.

[Greyfox]

I am trying to save you $500 million.

You are saving me nothing. I wouldn't be without an ID card.

I'd pay for it and would not ask any Government to chip in.

[maddog42]

Bartenders have been looking at ID for decades....no cost involved.
Duh.

YOU are the person that wants Voter ID Laws. Not me. I don't think it is quite that simple.


Voter ID expected to cost Ramsey County millions

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20839185/ramsey-county-voter-id-bill-could-reach-1

[maddog42]

You are saving me nothing. I wouldn't be without an ID card.

I'd pay for it and would not ask any Government to chip in.

You are the one that wants to spend millions, not me. These laws are worthless.

Voter ID expected to cost Ramsey County millions




http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20839185/ramsey-county-voter-id-bill-could-reach-1


Total Rice County cost for voter ID: $170,000

http://www.southernminn.com/faribault_daily_news/news/article_0254e9ab-dd83-5217-a150-7ef69aa56cfe.html

I thought I'd give you guys the low end and the High end. You republicans sure are thrifty. Democrats are Tax and Spend???!!!

[Tom]

If it costing millions, fire the idiots in charge and hire someone with a brain to implement it. Photo ID is already in effect for people in the real world. It is NOT rocket science and it is not expensive.

[bigmack]

Jesus, can we collectively agree that anyone, anywhere, without a scintilla of proof showing they are who they are supposed to be, CAN VOTE, just to shut this dweeb up?

IT'S TOO COSTLY ! :lol:

IT'S MEAN TO BLACKS ! :lol:

IT'S MEAN TO THE ELDERLY ! :lol:

[Tom]

It's REALLY rough on old Black poor people.

[Greyfox]

You are the one that wants to spend millions, not me. These laws are worthless.

!!!

For Cripes sake are you ever thick?

I want people to personally pay for their own ID card, not Government.

I can't say it any simpler.

Have a good day.

[maddog42]

Jesus, can we collectively agree that anyone, anywhere, without a scintilla of proof showing they are who they are supposed to be, CAN VOTE, just to shut this dweeb up?

IT'S TOO COSTLY ! :lol:

IT'S MEAN TO BLACKS ! :lol:

IT'S MEAN TO THE ELDERLY ! :lol:

Too late.

The Real Cost of Voter Id Laws

In 2011, Republicans have advanced photo ID legislation in at least 35 states. The report concluded that if these 35 states enact a photo ID law, they collectively will spend at least $276 million, and possibly as much as $828 million, in the first four years alone. At a time when states are experiencing huge budget shortfalls, it would be an enormous waste to spend hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars (http://www.democrats.org/the-real-cost-of-photo-id-laws#) to disenfranchise voters.

http://www.democrats.org/the-real-cost-of-photo-id-laws

PS I found another study, and like most studies the first estimate was wildly optimistic. 4 year cost will top a billion, easy. You Republicans spend like drunken sailors.

[bigmack]

Keep lapping up those articles. They're infested with lies.

With all the logic in the world on the side of showing some ID, OH, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE ID YOU GET A PROVISIONAL (You NEVER mention that) and you think you're going to win the debate by bringing in jaded articles about COST?

If I threw something shiny on the ground would you run and pick it up?

:lol:

[Tom]

For Cripes sake are you ever thick?

I want people to personally pay for their own ID card, not Government.

I can't say it any simpler.

Have a good day.

A lot like talking to a robo-call.:D

[bigmack]

A lot like talking to a robo-call.:D
He won't stop either. Best to let him post in a ghost town.

Have fun, Jr.

[maddog42]

Keep lapping up those articles. They're infested with lies.

With all the logic in the world on the side of showing some ID, OH, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE ID YOU GET A PROVISIONAL (You NEVER mention that) and you think you're going to win the debate by bringing in jaded articles about COST?

If I threw something shiny on the ground would you run and pick it up?

:lol:

I really just want You on record that you are in favor of spending $1 billion in order to stop 26 pimply faced dolts from voting twice. One study says that is the number that were actually prosecuted and convicted over 4 YEARS!! That is the least cost effective return on tax payer money I have ever seen. I have also noticed that except for about 3 posts, you guys don't really have any evidence contradicting anything I have said. Except for the Heritage foundation (payed republican Shills), You guys are pathetically low on evidence. Oh wait, you guys didn't even use the Heritage Foundation. Sorry.

[ElKabong]

YOU are the person that wants Voter ID Laws. Not me. I don't think it is quite that simple.


Voter ID expected to cost Ramsey County millions

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_20839185/ramsey-county-voter-id-bill-could-reach-1

Voter Fraud cost Norm Coleman his senate seat. It now belongs to an over the top goofball comedian.

Or was that the magic box full of DFL votes for Franken that somehow got overlooked until the original counting was done?....I forget

[ElKabong]

Just a side note here, and I think it's worth noting.....

I left work for a lil while at 9:30am today to get my DL renewed @ the Grand Prairie DPS ofc. I was one of about 25-20 individuals getting a renewal, or a new license. One thing really stuck out to me during the 40 or so minutes I was there....>>>>>>>>>>

I was the only white person there......90% Latino, a couple of Afr-Americans.

Amazes me why NOW there's this rush of Latinos in a mid city suburb getting a license? New license. I walked up and asked the kid at the info counter for a Form, he asked me if I's a US citizen (yes), he then said "you made my job much easier, thank you" in a dry wit

The guy said the past 2 weeks "it's been like this".....it was obvious what he was talking about. Made me thik if this was not the norm, WTF is going on? Voter ID workaround?

FWIW, fully half these people didn't speak any English. None.

[maddog42]

Voter Fraud cost Norm Coleman his senate seat. It now belongs to an over the top goofball comedian.

Or was that the magic box full of DFL votes for Franken that somehow got overlooked until the original counting was done?....I forget


GOP Voter Fraud Hucksters Latest Lie: Felons Made Franken U.S. Senator

http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator

Right-wingers are in a tizzy over excerpts from a new book by two of the GOP’s leading voter-fraud hucksters alleging that Minnesota’s Democratic Senator Al Franken would not have won a statewide recount in 2009 were it not for ex-felons (http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator#) voting illegally.

They are jumping to the false conclusion that illegal felon voting in November 2008 not only tipped a recount in which Franken won (http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=1405) by 312 votes—out of 2.4 million cast between the two men—but that tougher state voter ID laws would have changed the result. Both claims (http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator#) are wrong.


This article totally debunks that voter fraud caused Franken's election.

[ElKabong]

GOP Voter Fraud Hucksters Latest Lie: Felons Made Franken U.S. Senator

http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator

Right-wingers are in a tizzy over excerpts from a new book by two of the GOP’s leading voter-fraud hucksters alleging that Minnesota’s Democratic Senator Al Franken would not have won a statewide recount in 2009 were it not for ex-felons (http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator#) voting illegally.

They are jumping to the false conclusion that illegal felon voting in November 2008 not only tipped a recount in which Franken won (http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=1405) by 312 votes—out of 2.4 million cast between the two men—but that tougher state voter ID laws would have changed the result. Both claims (http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator#) are wrong.


This article totally debunks that voter fraud caused Franken's election.

You're like a sheep. Check out the site you linked...think that's unbiased stuff? :lol: :lol:

Here's the crap off your lib site>>> (not to mention that stupid cartoon, Mr Sheep)

Why I Wouldn't Let My Husband Touch My Breasts

9 Things That Show Mitt Romney Is Morally Bankrupt

Anal Sex: Science's Last Taboo

Forget Red vs. Blue -- It's Slave States vs. Free States in 2012

The Romney Men: 6 Filthy Rich Moguls Who Will Do Anything to Elect Mitt

[newtothegame]

Hey seriously dillusional dog.......
I am surprised you havent jumped on these billboards as well for your voter suppression cause....lmao
http://www.newsmax.com/US/voter-fraud-billboard-Midwest/2012/10/12/id/459824

[maddog42]

You're like a sheep. Check out the site you linked...think that's unbiased stuff? :lol: :lol:

Here's the crap off your lib site>>> (not to mention that stupid cartoon, Mr Sheep)

Why I Wouldn't Let My Husband Touch My Breasts

9 Things That Show Mitt Romney Is Morally Bankrupt

Anal Sex: Science's Last Taboo

Forget Red vs. Blue -- It's Slave States vs. Free States in 2012

The Romney Men: 6 Filthy Rich Moguls Who Will Do Anything to Elect Mitt

"In Minnesota, there have been 10 total cases of reported fraud and no cases of voter impersonation reported since 2000.

“Voter fraud at the polls is an insignificant aspect of American elections,” said elections expert David Schultz, professor of public policy at Hamline University School of Business in St. Paul.

This is a very informative article. One of the main sources of election cheating is by absentee ballot. Why don't legislatures stop that. It uses data collected by NEWS 21. and the Minneapolis Post.

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/08/cases-voter-id-election-fraud-found-virtually-non-existent

I repeat: Voter Fraud did not hand Al Franken the election. This is the most scrutinized election in History.

[GameTheory]

This is a very informative article. One of the main sources of election cheating is by absentee ballot. Why don't legislatures stop that. They are, in the voter ID laws. Procedures for absentee ballots are part of it.

BTW, how come you haven't posted anything about the Dem suppression of military votes the last few elections? Unable to get their ballots, not having them counted when they send them in, etc. Didn't the Obama admin actually sue to prevent early military voting in Ohio? How can you ever vote Democrat again?

And 30+ municipalities in Wisconsin didn't send out the military ballots by the deadline, even though only months before they'd been slammed by the court for previous such failures? (Not sure who is to blame there, but I can guess.) We're talking thousands of votes provably suppressed...

[maddog42]

They are, in the voter ID laws. Procedures for absentee ballots are part of it.

BTW, how come you haven't posted anything about the Dem suppression of military votes the last few elections? Unable to get their ballots, not having them counted when they send them in, etc. Didn't the Obama admin actually sue to prevent early military voting in Ohio? How can you ever vote Democrat again?

And 30+ municipalities in Wisconsin didn't send out the military ballots by the deadline, even though only months before they'd been slammed by the court for previous such failures? (Not sure who is to blame there, but I can guess.) We're talking thousands of votes provably suppressed...

This is from factcheck.org

"Mitt Romney wrongly suggests the Obama campaign is trying to “undermine” the voting rights of military members through a lawsuit filed in Ohio. The suit seeks to block state legislation that limited early voting times for nonmilitary members; it doesn’t seek to impose restrictions on service members."

Conservative blogs and opinion pieces have also misrepresented (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/02/obama-campaign-sues-to-restrict-military-voting) the case (http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-campaign-sues-to-restrict-military-voting-ohio), claiming in headlines that President Obama was suing to “restrict military voting.” A fundraising email appeal from a group called Special Operations Speaks — which wants to “remove Barack Obama from the White House” — wrongly says that Obama “deploys army of lawyers to suppress military’s voting rights,” claiming that “Obama needs the American military to not vote, so he has set out to make it as difficult as possible for them to do so.” But that’s not what the Obama lawsuit aims to do at all.

You really screwed up if you believed Romney and conservative blogs.They have no respect for the truth. This is why I am voting Republican. I have seen more lies in this campaign by Republicans than any time in my life.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/obama-not-trying-to-curb-military-early-voting/

sometime before the election I will star a thread called:
LYING REPUBLICANS

[GameTheory]

You really screwed up if you believed Romney and conservative blogs.They have no respect for the truth. This is why I am voting Republican. I have seen more lies in this campaign by Republicans than any time in my life.I think you made a Freudian slip in there. Anyway, I haven't actually read any conservative blogs, or any liberal ones for that matter. They are all profoundly dishonest on both sides. I haven't heard much about the military issue this time around (no comment on Wisconsin?), but it was a pretty big deal the last couple of elections, and there has been a consistent pattern of military people not having their ballots sent in time, etc. Just wondering why it is you only care about suppression on one side...

[rastajenk]

The Ohio lawsuit has only one intention, and that is to introduce more chaos into the system. The secretary of state wanted to eliminate early voting on the three days prior to the Tuesday election so that the various county boards could spend all their energies on getting ready for the Big Day.

I pick up my election day supplies on a Saturday. The signature book printed the night before is updated with who has requested an absentee ballot, who has voted early, actives, inactives, etc. If a person in my precinct votes at the county seat on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday, my signature book is already outdated on Tuesday.

Not a huge problem for me, but the board must print a list of very late early voters to be delivered to my polling place first thing on Tuesday morning. This must be done for 150 precincts in the county, and in 88 counties throughout the state.

Now, the supposition of the Dems is that if these final three days are not open for voting, some folks are going to get shut out, and the folks most likely to be in that number are....ready for it?... women, blacks, elderly, the usual suspects where this kind of thing is concerned. How is it that this bloc can only vote that weekend? Early voting can happen for several weeks before the Big Day, yet those three days are more critical? I believe this is like the voter fraud argument turned on its head: there is no more evidence that this suppresses voting than there is that people are voting more than once for Mickey Mouse or dead persons.

And one more thing. How is it that this group of aggrieved voters (blacks, the aged, women, hispanics) can't get an ID in their own town, but this same group can get to the county seat on three particular days to vote early? The logic is inconsistent, to say the least.

Every Democratic attack on the voting system is based on introducing chaos into the system. Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Washington, Ohio...anywhere a box of ballots can be "found" or a batch of military ballots can get lost, the balance will tip towards the D's. You can look it up.

[bigmack]

When does this 'maddog' begin to realize ALL of his cherry picked links mean NOTHING? Is he actually dumb enough to NOT know facts are completely void in his links? Just a pile of basement dwelling nerds typing crap, like he.

The integrity of the ballot box is just as important to the credibility of elections as access to it. PERIOD.

As mentioned, any buffoon can tell you it's a good idea to authenticate the identity of the voter. This buffoon, simply wants to make it all a one-sided suppression argument. Securing his place, right behind mostie, as tool of the month. :ThmbUp:

[johnhannibalsmith]

I can't believe that this thread is still attracting reasonable responses from bright people considering the thread starter has zero interest in anything but offering up every left handed link on google as though he's fighting the good fight. It's state law where it is state law and unless the court overturns it, it will remain state law. Again, if you want to just keep reinforcing how much you hate Republicans, more power to you. If you want to actually do something worthwhile to curtail your perceived injustices, start coming up with new ideas for how to make both sides happy because the incessant reiteration of what you don't like about that which you can't control for twenty pages won't get you very far. You act just like a legislator, screaming bloody murder instead of working towards an actual solution that everyone can live with.

[Dahoss9698]

I can't believe that this thread is still attracting reasonable responses from bright people considering the thread starter has zero interest in anything but offering up every left handed link on google as though he's fighting the good fight. It's state law where it is state law and unless the court overturns it, it will remain state law. Again, if you want to just keep reinforcing how much you hate Republicans, more power to you. If you want to actually do something worthwhile to curtail your perceived injustices, start coming up with new ideas for how to make both sides happy because the incessant reiteration of what you don't like about that which you can't control for twenty pages won't get you very far. You act just like a legislator, screaming bloody murder instead of working towards an actual solution that everyone can live with.

I agree with you, but in the part I highlighted....couldn't you just substitute liberals for republicans and apply it to most threads here?

[johnhannibalsmith]

I agree with you, but in the part I highlighted....couldn't you just substitute liberals for republicans and apply it to most threads here?

I bet that you could, but most of those threads deal with issues that I would argue are quite a bit more complicated to solve than this one. That's my beef. Nobody cares about actually solving the problem because that wouldn't be fun. I don't expect anyone to come with a simple solution to healthcare, the economy, Afghanistan, Israel, etc, etc... this one, for god's sake, it's not that hard.

Glad you're back. ;)

[Dahoss9698]

I bet that you could, but most of those threads deal with issues that I would argue are quite a bit more complicated to solve than this one. That's my beef. Nobody cares about actually solving the problem because that wouldn't be fun. I don't expect anyone to come with a simple solution to healthcare, the economy, Afghanistan, Israel, etc, etc... this one, for god's sake, it's not that hard.

Glad you're back. ;)
It's only temporary. I was so astounded by the stupidity I read in the other thread I had to.

[rastajenk]

It's state law where it is state law and unless the court overturns it, it will remain state law.That is a critical part of the Ohio defense against the Obama campaign-generated lawsuit. Managing elections is a state function. It is up to Kagan, I think, to decide if it's Supremely important or not, right quick. It may seem like a minor thing, but in a state that's sure to be contested on a head-bob, where the definition of "head" and "bob" will be debated ad nauseum, it is, to quote Crazy Uncle Joe Biden, a big f***ing deal.

[maddog42]

The Ohio lawsuit has only one intention, and that is to introduce more chaos into the system. The secretary of state wanted to eliminate early voting on the three days prior to the Tuesday election so that the various county boards could spend all their energies on getting ready for the Big Day.

I pick up my election day supplies on a Saturday. The signature book printed the night before is updated with who has requested an absentee ballot, who has voted early, actives, inactives, etc. If a person in my precinct votes at the county seat on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday, my signature book is already outdated on Tuesday.

Not a huge problem for me, but the board must print a list of very late early voters to be delivered to my polling place first thing on Tuesday morning. This must be done for 150 precincts in the county, and in 88 counties throughout the state.

Now, the supposition of the Dems is that if these final three days are not open for voting, some folks are going to get shut out, and the folks most likely to be in that number are....ready for it?... women, blacks, elderly, the usual suspects where this kind of thing is concerned. How is it that this bloc can only vote that weekend? Early voting can happen for several weeks before the Big Day, yet those three days are more critical? I believe this is like the voter fraud argument turned on its head: there is no more evidence that this suppresses voting than there is that people are voting more than once for Mickey Mouse or dead persons.

And one more thing. How is it that this group of aggrieved voters (blacks, the aged, women, hispanics) can't get an ID in their own town, but this same group can get to the county seat on three particular days to vote early? The logic is inconsistent, to say the least.

Every Democratic attack on the voting system is based on introducing chaos into the system. Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Washington, Ohio...anywhere a box of ballots can be "found" or a batch of military ballots can get lost, the balance will tip towards the D's. You can look it up.

Obama wants to extend early voting to everyone, not just the military. No doubt Democrats feel giving this privilege only to the military personnel is an unfair advantage to Republicans. The Democrats have been much more fair and consistent for expanding voting rights and ease of voting. The Republicans have been very consistent in trying to RESTRICT voting for any Demographic that will not for them.

The Democrats haven't tried to "introduce more chaos into the system."
You have a lot of nerve to say that considering the shenanigans Repubs
have tried to pull in Florida.

"At the end of the day, the Romney campaign has to rely on a slippery slope argument. But there’s really no end to how far politicians can carry this type of logic. Besides, the fact remains that the Democratic lawsuit does not seek to change voting privileges for service members.

Romney worded his statement rather carefully in a way that stops short of accusing the president of purposely trying to limit military voting rights, but the nuance of his remarks will be lost on the average voter."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/is-obama-challenging-voting-privileges-of-ohio-military-members/2012/08/07/b9cf76ac-e080-11e1-8fc5-a7dcf1fc161d_blog.html

Once again Republicans should be ashamed of themselves. Romney is as slippery as a snake.

It bears repeating:

"Besides, the fact remains that the Democratic lawsuit does not seek to change voting privileges for service members."

[rastajenk]

Republican shenanigans in Florida? You mean like trying to divine voter intent by holding punch cards up to the light to see if they're sufficiently dimpled? Oh, sorry, that was the Dems method of cheating. Do you know how to get a dimpled chad? I do. You put several ballot cards into the slot at one time and try to punch through them. The top couple of cards will produce the infamous "hanging chad" because there's no room for the chad to fall through, and the bottom cards will be dimpled. I know this because I've done it, with sample ballots.

Court challenges almost always go the Dems' way. "Let Every Vote Count!" rings a little louder than "Verify the Eligibility!" They flood the system with phony registrations, produce a ton of provisionals, and get judges to rule that they should all count, regardless of whether they were cast in the right location.

I admire your passion for voting integrity, dog, but you're barking up the wrong tree. And you will be as long as you rely on Alternet for alternate versions of reality. :p

[maddog42]

Republican shenanigans in Florida? You mean like trying to divine voter intent by holding punch cards up to the light to see if they're sufficiently dimpled? Oh, sorry, that was the Dems method of cheating. Do you know how to get a dimpled chad? I do. You put several ballot cards into the slot at one time and try to punch through them. The top couple of cards will produce the infamous "hanging chad" because there's no room for the chad to fall through, and the bottom cards will be dimpled. I know this because I've done it, with sample ballots.

Court challenges almost always go the Dems' way. "Let Every Vote Count!" rings a little louder than "Verify the Eligibility!" They flood the system with phony registrations, produce a ton of provisionals, and get judges to rule that they should all count, regardless of whether they were cast in the right location.



I admire your passion for voting integrity, dog, but you're barking up the wrong tree. And you will be as long as you rely on Alternet for alternate versions of reality. :p

Do you have proof that Dem's cheat like this? I usually post a web page
that verifies what I am claiming. Are you claiming that this is the only way to get a dimpled chad? You and I both know that 99% of all dimpled chads do not come about by Cheating Dems or Repubs. To imply that this is the way that (some, most?) Dimple chads come about is ludicrous.


http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~goguen/courses/275f00/abc-chads.html

[maddog42]

"After the ACLU of Pennsylvania and other groups mounted a legal challenge, a state judge in October blocked enforcement this year of the voter ID law signed by Republican Gov. Tom Corbett in March. The law requires a government-issued photo ID card. The state has announced that it has no evidence of in-person voter fraud."

The state has announced that it has no evidence of in-person voter fraud."
The state has announced that it has no evidence of in-person voter fraud."

The state has announced that it has no evidence of in-person voter fraud."

The state has announced that it has no evidence of in-person voter fraud."
The state has announced that it has no evidence of in-person voter fraud."

This is about how many times I have read this about various states having evidence of voter fraud. Do the Dems have the best Lawyers in the world?
No. That distniction belongs to the Repubs. That is the only way you can get preposterous Legislation made into Law.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-08-2012/voter-id-laws-restrict-older-americans.html

Also note that in just about every state I have looked at The Leagues of Women Voters is appalled and is fighting these laws in court. Yeah thats
right. A non-partisan group that probably has helped conduct more elections than anybody is against Voter ID in many states.

Rastajenk are you a member of the League of Women Voters ? No disrespect here or attempt at mockery. They have allowed men for years and do a lot of good work.