Heat Racing

[CHeCK EyE]

I say this begrudgingly...I'm not old enough to remember the days of the Hambletonian being raced in heats. But I am fully aware that it's tradition in the sport and next year the Hambo will go back to it's roots. Having said that, I have a real problem with some of the recent runnings of heat racing (Futurity in particular because it's most recent). Before the Filly Futurity even was run, Ray Shnittker made it publicly known pretty much regardless of where Check Me Out finishes, he would not race her in a second heat. I truly believe he should not have been allowed to race her if that were his intentions. He doesn't believe in heat racing because it may put too much strain on his horses. That is all well and good and he is entitled to his opinion. But in the same sentence, he is screwing everyone else and not caring about anyone's horse but his own. He won't race his horses in two heats, but by racing Check Me Out everyone else suffers! It ended up not mattering too much as she lost, but if she had won and not raced in the second heat only one horse could have won to end the day. As a result, the chances of every other horse having to race 2, or more likely 3 heats, increased. Again, if you want to not race multiple heats, by all means that's your prerogative but don't screw everyone else!

On the same note, unless horse has a legitimate reason to be scratched they should not be from subsequent heats. Example, Guccio. Granted I have no clue, maybe he really came up a bit hurt or sick, but too many times trainers/owners race in the first heat, don't win but finish in the money and scratch out of the later heats ONCE AGAIN screwing the other horses, particularly the horse who finishes 6, and doesn't make the final but would have raced if he did.

Could be a good debate on both sides and I'm more than willing to hear the flip side, but I'm pretty stern on my stance right now.

[baconswitchfarm]

Rays phoney stance on heat racing was just to protect that fillies reputation. I was there the day that Dewey hopped back to the paddock on three legs after getting beat in the second leg of the Kentucky Futurity. Forty five minutes later he came out and won the third heat. If that filly had a stud career ahead of her and needed that win , I can assure you Ray would have raced her. He would have also savaged her to get up for the win if he needed to.

[CHeCK EyE]

Very understandable and I get it, but by the same token the other horses still suffer from his decision. Whether it's a by case basis or not. By publicly stating she wouldn't race after the first heat, what's the point; why let her race at all??? And as for being scratched out of the final. They have to find a way to truly be legit to be scratched. Otherwise a penalty. Give back the purse money someone said in another forum. I like that idea!

[LottaKash]

Me personally, I believe that "heat-racing"'s better and more glorious days are behind us....I don't see the need for such a thing any longer...

Years ago on the "Grand Circuit", heat racing was a very normal thing.....But, horses were trained differently in those days, and they just didn 't have to go as fast as they do these days....Different game today...Not necessarily better, I don't think, but certainly, heat racing doesn't seem to fit as well in the scheme of things today, as in older times....

[CHeCK EyE]

Kash I tend to agree. Again, I'm not old enough to remember when it was a big thing, but personally I'd rather see eliminations one week with a final the following. But since there is heat racing, the Futurity and next year Hambo, the sorts of things that Shnittker did today as well as other trains have done in the past needs to stop. It's BS if you ask me. If you don't plan to race in multiple heats, don't race in the race at all. End of story.

[LottaKash]

If you don't plan to race in multiple heats, don't race in the race at all. End of story.

I completely agree with that Checkman...:ThmbUp:

[wilderness]

What about tradition?

The Ky Fut first raced in 1893, and despite missing four years (1942-45) remains the same historical format. Likely the longest established stake race in harness racing.

While we're voting to change things, why no change the Kentucky Derby to six furlongs ;)

Over the years, many dedicated owners and horsemen have sunk money into "The Red Mile" to assure the longevity of tradition.

[LottaKash]

What about tradition?

Over the years, many dedicated owners and horsemen have sunk money into "The Red Mile" to assure the longevity of tradition.

Glad you chimed in here Don...You would always be my "gotoguy" in historical matters such as these...

Don, I for one don't want to eliminate the Kentucky Futurity...I hope that all the tracks make a concerted effort to keep our sports long standing traditions as close to as is they can...

Still Don, we have "automatic transmissions" now, don't we ?...

As I said previously, they just don't train for the heats any longer, and frankly I don't think that some of the modern day trainers would know how in todays world of harness racing....And, once the old timers are gone, and we are almost there it seems, what then....?

[wilderness]

As I said previously, they just don't train for the heats any longer, and frankly I don't think that some of the modern day trainers would know how in todays world of harness racing....And, once the old timers are gone, and we are almost there it seems, what then....?

I guess we'll just have to "return" harness racing to the Churchill Downs location ;)

Many say the times are too fast for heats, however when the purses are big enough, (mil or 1.5 mil) nobody cries the blues.

Despite the KY Fut being the oldest of the Triple Crown Trotting legs, the purse is the least, and that is not saying much considering how many horseman won't race their trotting stars at Yonkers (or even pay the sustaining fees at Yonkers).

With the Breeders Crown just a few weeks away, why would an intelligent horseman/woman take a chance on gutting their horse for the lesser KY purse.

BTW, for two of the early years of the Hambletonian and when it was held at Lexington, the Hambo and the Ky Futurity were raced in a very close time frame. (I'm thinking a week for one, however I'd have to verify to be sure).

[wilderness]

Kash,
Have you read either version of the Care and Training of the Trotter and Pacer (USTA)?

I'm not as fresh on the "New" (1996) version, however in the "Old" (1969) version (which I read multiple times over the years), I seem to recall that the training miles for multiple heats were not any different than training for single heats.
Course as has been pointed out, the horses were going slower dashes then, and some trainers went triples or more in the training-miles, which is simply unheard of these days.

[Ray2000]

IMHO

Breeding for speed and the hell with endurance has killed traditional heat racing and led to the inevitable increase of early break downs of the superstars.

[wilderness]

IMHO

Breeding for speed and the hell with endurance has killed traditional heat racing and led to the inevitable increase of early break downs of the superstars.

A common term for that break down is called "gutting".

The same thing happened to Lou Dillon in 1903, when she had her super-star year, without having the foundation miles to support such a season. In 1904 (and afterwards) she was non-competitive.

Trainer-drivers in years past protected their horses by building momentum to specific races and letting their horses develop, as opposed to the ALL-OUT in every race.

[LottaKash]

Kash,
Have you read either version of the Care and Training of the Trotter and Pacer (USTA)?

I'm not as fresh on the "New" (1996) version, however in the "Old" (1969) version (which I read multiple times over the years), I seem to recall that the training miles for multiple heats were not any different than training for single heats.
Course as has been pointed out, the horses were going slower dashes then, and some trainers went triples or more in the training-miles, which is simply unheard of these days.

Yeah Don, I have the older version of C&TofT&P (the 69')....I used to read it alot, way back when....At the time some 45 or so years, very much of it was relevant for it's time, but As RAY has pointed out, most of that training regimen (and I suspect as well) has flown the coop.....

I am not in touch with the training of Harness Horses these days, as is in years gone by, but way back, I remember the trainers, including mine, that going double an triple training heats, in order to get them to the races, schooling them, or maintaining the form, was common to almost all the horses....Nowadays, with all that speed, without knowing the truth of the matter, I suspect that once a horse gets to the races, that only some light training and/or heavy jogging should all that would be necessary to mainain a horse's form once it has reached it's "True-Ability" level....Otherwise the burnouts would ensue....And Lord knows we see so much of that today...Perhaps, the trainers using that old "book" are still trying to do things today in the old way, and it cost's them in the long run, maybe....

Maybe someone should write a new chapter on training the modern day harness horse...I dunno, really....But I do know that given the racing environment that is "today", well, heat racing can't be too good for a horse....

Still, as the years went bye, and the horses went faster and faster, I started winning at the races on a more and a consistent basis.....Go figure...:confused:

[CHeCK EyE]

What about tradition?

The Ky Fut first raced in 1893, and despite missing four years (1942-45) remains the same historical format. Likely the longest established stake race in harness racing.

While we're voting to change things, why no change the Kentucky Derby to six furlongs ;)

Over the years, many dedicated owners and horsemen have sunk money into "The Red Mile" to assure the longevity of tradition.

I agree! If they changed it I wouldn't mind, but I'm not saying change it just to change it. Keep the tradition. Again I'm not old enough to remember but I definitely understand why it's stuck the way it has. So keep it that way! But if you publicly say you won't be racing more than one heat regardless, YOU'RE OUT!

[camfella]

Agree on the race or shut up view. Training in the early days was as controversial as it is now , one group in the 30's started putting foundation miles on horses, 6 or 8 miles in 230 (most raced in 205-210) , a lot of the S Breds were larger body types that would have been just as happy to pulling heavy loads. Endurance was key, but they often raced slower early fractions by gentlemens' agreements. It wasnt until the late 70's that you saw many halfs under 101 or 102. Most horsemen believed they couldnt race faster ,nor that the final finish was determined by that pace. After that,catch drivers started using speed as a tool, 3, 29 second quarters and see who can last became more of the norm , the brush became a tool. This is where the need for faster,sleeker horses became the rage, and it was kept going by the breeding. The training was done differently, like the difference between a sprinter and a marathoner ,might train. I think young horses miss having the foundation put under them, but are instead racing in 52 or 53 after a few starts. As they say, it is what it is, heat racing will die a natural death,I'm afraid. We have gone from mostly heat racing(even overnights and fairs) in the pre 1950's to the speed racing we have now. Where does the speed come from? the track surfaces, horse who have been bred for it, using sulkies and equipment that fosters it. Result, a different sport.

[LottaKash]

......Result, a different sport.



Thatzit Cam....The way it is supposed to be, I'd guess....

Heck, even the "big-rigs" runnin up n' down the "big roads", have great automatic transmissions now....

And yet, We keep cappin' on, hey ?

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Wow, I rarely post where I agree with at least three others on any topic, but this one really hit home.. Thank you for posting Checkeye.

It is a combination of things that created the "need for speed" so that with that world record in the lineage lines, the sales of the yearlings will be high.

In breeding for speed, we lost endurance and the one thing standardbreds were trained earlier; that is, going multiple heats in nearly the same time standards with a rest in between.

Add to the above the equipment changes like bikes, quick hitches, those high tech wheels and we have super charged our new speedsters.

Now enters the various racetrack that also would love to have that world record. The track people groom the surface with less cushion and a more packed down and watered surface to reduce the friction on the wheels.

What we have created are our version of thoroughbreds with their very same problems in soreness and break downs. To go back to heat racing again is really asking for more trouble.

Just look at what it costs today to purchase one of these highly bred yearlings. You now have to nominate to all the various stakes and have to keep them eligible with those sustaining payments and then, if lucky enough to be entered, they again hit you with a starting fee. Its called stake racing because the owners of the owners provide a large portion of the stake purses.

I did not even mention the cost of breaking, training down to qualifying time and all the cost of training a horse in racing plus the various feed, vet or equipment that is needed to keep the horse racing so he can make some money.

If I laid out that kind of cash, knowing what is really at stake in this multiple heat races, I would not care to break down my horse for any kind of money over a jucied up (hard) racing surface,,I would have too much to lose.

Just look to the 1979 Adios in which they had only 7 horses entered that had to go two heats if the same horse won the race. The track was a mess and the favorite was Sonsam, one of the best three year old pacers in the sport. Also entered was none other than his main rival (like Adios had King Counsel) Sonsam hat Hot Hitter with Herve Fillion in the bike.

Herve put one one hell of two drives when he parked Hot Hitter in both races, racing on the outside of Sonsam. It drove that horse nuts that he hurt himself bad enough that ended his career never to race again.

Herve comes back in the bike (ala a Roman Chariot Driver standing on the bike seat while holding the lines loosely in his hands.

Sonsam did have a carrer at stud thankfully, all the remaing stake payments are gone..

I never liked heat racing even when it was the norm, just too many things happen in a race and more than half are negative for horse and driver.

thanks again for posting this one, it was really interesting.
rtd

[Ray2000]

Just a side note, RTD, ....sorry for the hi-jack, checkeye

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/10-4-12/herves-last-hurrah.html

72 yo Herve won the 4th, 6th and 8th....


.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Loved it...great interview....glad to see he went out with style.

I will always cherish that day with Hot Hitter....in fact, it was the first time a horse sired by a previous Adios winner, won the Adios. His dad, "Strike Out" won in a dead heat with "Jay Time" to share the title. That could very well be a trivia question on the history of the Adios.

Thank you for sharing Ray..

[eurocapper]

I think Beyer makes the point is where US harness has gone wrong is not with speed but making it too easy with standardized distances for instance. What players are interested in is big payouts not an easy game. (Of course by varying distances the importance of speed will at the same time be reduced.)

[Oskar]

The tide began to turn against heat racing in 1975, when Stanley Dancer’s Nevele Pride colt, Bonefish, beat Yankee Bambino and Noble Rogue in a fourth heat of the Hambletonion. To that point the race had only been decided by a fourth heat four times. A week later, prior to the Matron at Wolverine, Bonefish suffered a ruptured blood vessel in his throat and he never raced again. Dancer blamed this issue on that great stretch duel with Yankee Bambino the week before. (Frederick Van Lennep owned Wolverine and Castleton, where Bonefish was destined to stand, so Dancer probably agreed to start the colt in the Matron against his better judgment.)



The four heat issue remained on the front burner the following year when Bill Haughton’s Steve Lobell beat Armbro Regina and Zoot Suit in the fourth heat of the Hambletonion on a very hot day in DuQuoin. The colt went into shock and almost died three hours after the race. Haughton was furious.



Haughton, Dancer and other heavy hitters lobbied the powers that be and a three heat maximum was introduced in 1983.

The race eventually became a slave to television--something that distinguishes it from the Kentucky Futurity and the Jug. I believe 1997 was the first year when the elimination heats were held the week before the race.

It eventually became possible to win the Hambletonion off of only one winning heat.

[CHeCK EyE]

What if you race the first heat as an elimination the week prior. The 'final' the week after, and if one of the horses from the elim win, they take the prize and if not have a second heat the night of the 'final'. That way it's a maximum of two heats on a given day?

[RaceTrackDaddy]

What if you race the first heat as an elimination the week prior. The 'final' the week after, and if one of the horses from the elim win, they take the prize and if not have a second heat the night of the 'final'. That way it's a maximum of two heats on a given day?

That would defeat the purpose of have an elimination the week before, doesn't it?

[forced89]

I often went when the Hambletonian was held at the Du Quoin State Fair. I into thoroughbreds now so don't have an opinion re the trotters of today vs the trotters of yesterday. What I do know is that the Hambletonian run in heats was one exciting event.

[MutuelClerk]

Great thread checkeye. I love harness racing. My first JUg was 1976. I was in Lexington this year. Came down for the Futurity. I think speed and endurance is part of being a champion. When it was made clear Check Me Out was racing only one heat. Market Share didnt supplement and raced the day before. I left after the races on Saturday. Didnt stay for the Futurity. Not sure I'll ever be back.

I thought the reason this started in the Hambo was for TV. NBC wanted one dash for the cash. Not two or possibly three races in the same day. It could interfere with their TV schedule. I've worked in racing over thirty years. Having the Hambo on NBC is nice but it's not bringing anyone to the races.

Selfishness of everyone in every phase of this industry is ruining it. Breeders, owners, employees. If the game isn't bringing young people in. And it's driving away fossils like myself who loved it at one time. What's left?

[CHeCK EyE]

That would defeat the purpose of have an elimination the week before, doesn't it?

Yes and no. I mean at the root of yeah, yeah kind of. Although, while typing this, it adds incentive to win the elimination, and erases the 'i'll finish fifth and go hard for the final' attitude? Maybe more so than simply having the winner select their post position. Make the elimination 'count' and everyone will race harder maybe? Just thinking out loud...and admittedly rambling

[wilderness]

I've worked in racing over thirty years. Having the Hambo on NBC is nice but it's not bringing anyone to the races.

Not only that, it cost a pretty penny, which is divided between the Hambo Society and The Meadowlands (look how much M1 reduced the Pace purse for 2012), with the majority of the advertisers selling ginga knives, potato peelers, and other such info-mercials. The later in itself, provides a reflection of mainstream market share.

[Oskar]

The primary sponsors on TVG are hawking diabetic testing kits, disposable catheters, adult diapers and wheel chairs.


What does that say about the horseplayers tuning in?

[wilderness]

At least coo-coo for cocoa puffs would be in the direction of missionary selling ;)