New York Yankees, Eastern Division Champs!

[Stillriledup]

Congrats PA!

:jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

OK...get out all the $200 million dollar payroll comments now...more than the Orioles and Rays combined...all that jazz...I'm ready for it...

[Stillriledup]

OK...get out all the $200 million dollar payroll comments now...more than the Orioles and Rays combined...all that jazz...I'm ready for it...

Ok, i'll start.

A player gets paid for what he did in the past essentially with a HOPE for the future. Players dont get paid 25 million a season because they MIGHT be good in the future, they're being paid 25 Mil per because they WERE great in the past.

Now, as we all know, what a player did in the past has nothing to do with how he will do in the future. Look at a guy like Chone Figgins. "Figgy" was a Yankee killer....he got his big payday and fell off the map, now he's not even good enough to start for the MARINERS.

Payroll is not a factor in who wins and who loses, look at the Athletics vs the Red Sox. One team was frugal and had a low payroll and the other team spent like drunken sailors and the difference is massive. The Sox essentially fell off the map despite outspending everyone in the last few years. Since NYY got CC, AJ and Tex in that 400+ mil spending spree a few years ago, they really have been much smarter about spending like drunken sailors. Boston and Texas are the new poster boys for excess waste.

If throwing a lot of money at players meant instant success, why have Boston and Philly (and even the Mets and Marlins to a smaller degree) not flourished?

[ElKabong]

Boston and Texas are the new poster boys for excess waste.



I look at some of your posts in disbelief. Texas has a lower total payroll than Philly, Boston, LAA. Those teams didn't make the playoffs. With Hamilton gone, and maybe Kinsler or Cruz traded, the payroll may go down actually in 2013

[Stillriledup]

I look at some of your posts in disbelief. Texas has a lower total payroll than Philly, Boston, LAA. Those teams didn't make the playoffs. With Hamilton gone, and maybe Kinsler or Cruz traded, the payroll may go down actually in 2013

That's because you just LOOK at the posts and don't truly READ them.

I'm not talking about total payroll. The Rangers just bought Yu Darvish for god knows how much money, the last time the Yanks 'bought' a guy of that calbire was in December of 2008 with the acquisitions of Tex, CC and AJ. Since then, they have been using AAA guys and acquiring 'old guys' who are past their prime and making due with that. The Red Sox and Rangers (among others) have more recently acquired a massive contract. That's what i was talking about.

[Robert Goren]

I haven't checked, but someone told me that every year that Kentucky men's BB team has ended the year ranked number 1 , the Yankees have won the WS.

[Tom]

The best team money can buy.
Why would you buy the worst? Duh.

[cj's dad]

:ThmbUp:PA

I have no problem with the Yankees payroll; I don't care if they double what they spent this year on next years team.

One thought on A-Rod. If I'm the Yanks GM, I go to the commish and demand that A-Rod's contract be voided due to his steroid use which certainly enhanced his batting totals.In other words the Yankees did not get what they paid for. The Yankees should retain sole negotiating rights and if he refuses to sign a new contract the team that signs him pays a stiff penalty to the Yankees, money and draft choices.

[ElKabong]

I'm not talking about total payroll.

Brilliance, there. Sheer brilliance. :liar:

Darvish was a + in more ways than just the gate. The guy is hugely popular here and abroad for obvious reasons. Asian, good pitcher, makes the girls go nuts etc. Go around town here you see about as many Darvish jerseys and Tees as you do Hamilton's.

R's drew 3 million+, made a killing. Fox contract kicks in soon. If Yu's name was George Jones you might have a point. But it's not, and you don't. Add to this that for the past 4 yrs Texas has gotten mammoth production out of Andrus, Kinsler, Cruz, Hamilton for cut rate prices avg'd out, that 50 mil bonus was already in the bank.

[PaceAdvantage]

:ThmbUp:PA

I have no problem with the Yankees payroll; I don't care if they double what they spent this year on next years team.Actually, the goal from what I read is to reduce payroll going forward...to a point below the luxury tax if possible...

Apparently, Hal Steinbrenner isn't as fond of paying these guys mega bucks like dear old dad was...in fact, there was some talk about them actually looking to sell the team...their hearts, I believe, aren't in it the way it was with George...

Yankee general partner Hal Steinbrenner has made it clear he wants to lower the payroll even if the team fails to make the playoffs this year. “I’m a finance geek. I guess I always have been,” Steinbrenner said during spring training. “That’s my background; budgets matter and balance sheets matter. I just feel that if you do well on the player development side and you have a good farm system, you don’t need a $220 million payroll. You can field every bit as good a team with young talent.” Steinbrenner is striving to take advantage of baseball’s new revenue-sharing guidelines, and if the Yankees can get under the $189 million luxury-tax threshold, they will benefit threefold: Not only will the club save money on payroll, it won’t have to pay a luxury tax and will reap a revenue-sharing rebate.

Another factor fueling the speculation is the fact that Hal Steinbrenner doesn’t seem to share his father’s passion for baseball, and his brother, Hank, has virtually disappeared from the baseball landscape since he approved an onerous 10-year, $275 million contract for Alex Rodriguez before the 2008 season. Hal Steinbrenner rarely attends games, and according to those who know him, abhors doling out the huge money long-term contracts such as the Rodriguez deal. “Hal’s a smart businessman,” the source said. “And I’m just not sure that he considers baseball to be a smart business. I think he looks at some of these other owners, throwing $200 million at players and thinks they’re idiots — idiots that unfortunately can affect the way he does business. You have to understand, it was in Hal’s formative years in the ’80s when he saw George at his worst in terms of throwing more and more good money at bad players like Pascual Perez, Dave LaPoint, Steve Kemp, Ed Whitson and Andy Hawkins. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-05-23/news/31829556_1_steinbrenner-family-hal-steinbrenner-yankee-general-partner

[ElKabong]

Between reading the above, and seeing him in an interview abt a year ago (HBO maybe?) I like Hal. Seems to have his feet on the ground. I'd hate to see him sell, the game needs his kind

[Stillriledup]

Brilliance, there. Sheer brilliance. :liar:

Darvish was a + in more ways than just the gate. The guy is hugely popular here and abroad for obvious reasons. Asian, good pitcher, makes the girls go nuts etc. Go around town here you see about as many Darvish jerseys and Tees as you do Hamilton's.

R's drew 3 million+, made a killing. Fox contract kicks in soon. If Yu's name was George Jones you might have a point. But it's not, and you don't. Add to this that for the past 4 yrs Texas has gotten mammoth production out of Andrus, Kinsler, Cruz, Hamilton for cut rate prices avg'd out, that 50 mil bonus was already in the bank.

What does his popularity with the girls have to do with the boatload of money they spent to acquire him?

[cj's dad]

:ThmbUp:PA

One thought on A-Rod. If I'm the Yanks GM, I go to the commish and demand that A-Rod's contract be voided due to his steroid use which certainly enhanced his batting totals.In other words the Yankees did not get what they paid for. The Yankees should retain sole negotiating rights and if he refuses to sign a new contract the team that signs him pays a stiff penalty to the Yankees, money and draft choices.

The Donald must be a PA member:

"You're fired."

Speaking as both a Yankees fan and an A-Rod detractor, Trump told Michael Kay on ESPN NewYork 98.7 FM Tuesday afternoon, "I would terminate his contract, personally. I think George would've done that. I would terminate his contract on the basis that when he signed, he didn't say that he took drugs.




http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8513332/donald-trump-says-fire-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees

[horses4courses]

Goes to show that money can't buy success for sports teams, and there is no sport that exemplifies that more than baseball. Most noticeable are the "Billy Ball" Athletics in making the playoffs while near the bottom of the salary ladder, and how good the Nationals and Orioles are with relatively low expenditure.

Here's a USA Today list of roster salary totals:

Major League Baseball Salaries


2012 MLB Salaries by Team



TEAM

TOTAL PAYROLL

AVG SALARY

MEDIAN

STD DEV




New York Yankees

$ 197,962,289

$ 6,186,321

$ 1,937,500

$ 7,938,987



Philadelphia Phillies

$ 174,538,938

$ 5,817,964

$ 1,875,000

$ 6,833,158



Boston Red Sox

$ 173,186,617

$ 5,093,724

$ 1,556,250

$ 6,311,421



Los Angeles Angels

$ 154,485,166

$ 5,327,074

$ 3,150,000

$ 6,212,772



Detroit Tigers

$ 132,300,000

$ 4,562,068

$ 1,100,000

$ 6,557,916



Texas Rangers

$ 120,510,974

$ 4,635,037

$ 3,437,500

$ 4,728,330



Miami Marlins

$ 118,078,000

$ 4,373,259

$ 1,500,000

$ 5,228,424



San Francisco Giants

$ 117,620,683

$ 3,920,689

$ 1,275,000

$ 5,296,153



St. Louis Cardinals

$ 110,300,862

$ 3,939,316

$ 800,000

$ 4,858,527



Milwaukee Brewers

$ 97,653,944

$ 3,755,920

$ 1,981,250

$ 3,965,659



Chicago White Sox

$ 96,919,500

$ 3,876,780

$ 530,000

$ 4,956,845



Los Angeles Dodgers

$ 95,143,575

$ 3,171,452

$ 875,000

$ 3,673,217



Minnesota Twins

$ 94,085,000

$ 3,484,629

$ 750,000

$ 5,207,450



New York Mets

$ 93,353,983

$ 3,457,554

$ 875,000

$ 5,867,084



Chicago Cubs

$ 88,197,033

$ 3,392,193

$ 1,262,500

$ 4,617,206



Atlanta Braves

$ 83,309,942

$ 2,776,998

$ 577,500

$ 4,037,723



Cincinnati Reds

$ 82,203,616

$ 2,935,843

$ 1,150,000

$ 3,462,247



Seattle Mariners

$ 81,978,100

$ 2,927,789

$ 495,150

$ 4,998,379



Baltimore Orioles

$ 81,428,999

$ 2,807,896

$ 1,300,000

$ 3,205,445



Washington Nationals

$ 81,336,143

$ 2,623,746

$ 800,000

$ 3,618,322



Cleveland Indians

$ 78,430,300

$ 2,704,493

$ 800,000

$ 3,661,123



Colorado Rockies

$ 78,069,571

$ 2,692,054

$ 482,000

$ 3,272,886



Toronto Blue Jays

$ 75,489,200

$ 2,696,042

$ 1,768,750

$ 2,881,414



Arizona Diamondbacks

$ 74,284,833

$ 2,653,029

$ 1,625,000

$ 2,587,139



Tampa Bay Rays

$ 64,173,500

$ 2,291,910

$ 1,425,000

$ 2,313,395



Pittsburgh Pirates

$ 63,431,999

$ 2,187,310

$ 916,666

$ 3,109,669



Kansas City Royals

$ 60,916,225

$ 2,030,540

$ 870,000

$ 2,282,159



Houston Astros

$ 60,651,000

$ 2,332,730

$ 491,250

$ 4,543,506



Oakland Athletics

$ 55,372,500

$ 1,845,750

$ 487,500

$ 2,179,703



San Diego Padres

$ 55,244,700

$ 1,973,025

$ 1,207,500

$ 2,049,861

[Stillriledup]

h4C, if money can't buy success in baseball (and i agree with your post) how come when high payroll teams win, people say they 'bought it'?

If you cant buy it, how can people say they bought it?

[ElKabong]

What does his popularity with the girls have to do with the boatload of money they spent to acquire him?

Darvish created new Rangers fans both here and in JPN . They're called Hot Chicks. You may have heard of them. They spend cash (go to games, buy jerseys, buy concessions etc). That cash goes to the ballclub.

You're welcome

[PaceAdvantage]

h4C, if money can't buy success in baseball (and i agree with your post) how come when high payroll teams win, people say they 'bought it'?

If you cant buy it, how can people say they bought it?h4C is wrong, that's why. Money certainly CAN buy a championship...the Yankees have consistently had the highest payroll for a LONG time, and have won many championships during that period...

The Yankees have won the World Series SEVEN times since Steinbrenner took over in 1973. What's the next highest number by a team? I think it's three (Cardinals and Reds come to mind).

[Stillriledup]

h4C is wrong, that's why. Money certainly CAN buy a championship...the Yankees have consistently had the highest payroll for a LONG time, and have won many championships during that period...

The Yankees have won the World Series SEVEN times since Steinbrenner took over in 1973. What's the next highest number by a team? I think it's three (Cardinals and Reds come to mind).

I think the point though is this. If money meant so much, how come a team like the Red Sox were 20 games under .500 at the end of the year? They have a higher payroll than almost everyone.

The Yankees have had their team structured according to the idea that they have a high payroll. They know how much they want to spend and because of this, they acquire players that fit within that framework.

Now, is it fair to say that the Yanks would NOT have been able to win as much as they've won if their payroll was much less? If the Yanks said that they were going to have a payroll that was similar to many of the other teams out there and they spent 100 million less (as an example) who's to say that they wouldnt have concentrated on drafting and development and not just getting rid of young stars because they couldnt afford them?

Here's an example. If the Yankees were a low payroll team by design, they would have kept Austin Jackson and not gotten Curtis Granderson. Would the Yankees be any worse off if Jackson was their starting CF this year? No, Jackson is a good player and swapping him for Granderson wouldnt have made the Yanks any worse or any better in 2012.

So, if the Yanks decided to be a low payroll team, they would still be able to afford the best scouts and the best technology and would have a good YOUNG team instead of a good old team.

Paying a ton of money to players is just what the market can bear and doesnt necessarily suggest that the higher paid players are better than their lesser paid counterparts.

If the Yanks were told that they have to operate on a 100M payroll as opposed to close to 200m payroll, i think they would adapt just fine and still be a top team, they would just have to do things differently.

[OTM Al]

h4C is wrong, that's why. Money certainly CAN buy a championship...the Yankees have consistently had the highest payroll for a LONG time, and have won many championships during that period...

The Yankees have won the World Series SEVEN times since Steinbrenner took over in 1973. What's the next highest number by a team? I think it's three (Cardinals and Reds come to mind).

And Oakland if you are including 1973

[PaceAdvantage]

I think the point though is this. If money meant so much, how come a team like the Red Sox were 20 games under .500 at the end of the year? They have a higher payroll than almost everyone.

The Yankees have had their team structured according to the idea that they have a high payroll. They know how much they want to spend and because of this, they acquire players that fit within that framework.

Now, is it fair to say that the Yanks would NOT have been able to win as much as they've won if their payroll was much less? If the Yanks said that they were going to have a payroll that was similar to many of the other teams out there and they spent 100 million less (as an example) who's to say that they wouldnt have concentrated on drafting and development and not just getting rid of young stars because they couldnt afford them?

Here's an example. If the Yankees were a low payroll team by design, they would have kept Austin Jackson and not gotten Curtis Granderson. Would the Yankees be any worse off if Jackson was their starting CF this year? No, Jackson is a good player and swapping him for Granderson wouldnt have made the Yanks any worse or any better in 2012.

So, if the Yanks decided to be a low payroll team, they would still be able to afford the best scouts and the best technology and would have a good YOUNG team instead of a good old team.

Paying a ton of money to players is just what the market can bear and doesnt necessarily suggest that the higher paid players are better than their lesser paid counterparts.

If the Yanks were told that they have to operate on a 100M payroll as opposed to close to 200m payroll, i think they would adapt just fine and still be a top team, they would just have to do things differently.Let's not ignore the fact that a nice portion of the top contributors to this team winning over recent years has been HOME GROWN TALENT...

Jeter
Rivera
Posada
Pettitte
Cano
Hughes
Chamberlain

Just because these guys are getting paid well doesn't mean they were all free agent acquisitions to start out...

[thaskalos]

I have always enjoyed watching the Yankees get beat in the past...but I now find it very difficult to root against a Joe Girardi-managed team.

He is a very likable, very classy individual...:ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Darvish created new Rangers fans both here and in JPN . They're called Hot Chicks. You may have heard of them. They spend cash (go to games, buy jerseys, buy concessions etc). That cash goes to the ballclub.

You're welcome

I'm not saying that Darvish doesnt create fans, even hot chicks, but my point wasnt about that. If Darvish wasnt a really good player, they wouldnt have signed him for that amount of money just because he might turn a hot chick who wasnt a fan into a hot chick who is now a fan.

Im talking about trying to 'purchase' titles. While everything you say is true and that Darvish creates revenue, he's still there ultimately because he's a very good player who will help them win games.

Its not just the Yankees who are trying to 'buy' titles.