Should NY racing fans buy selling NYRA?

[PaceAdvantage]

Some interesting points raised in the following piece, specifically about the dirty underbelly of NY racing...the state of New York:

But we’re talking about a racing franchise that has bled red ink for years. What will a new owner do to recover that investment? What changes will the day-to-day operation of the sport undergo? Will a simple change of management reverse the financial tide in a stagnant industry?

Perhaps. Yet there’s also a school of thought that in switching from a not-for-profit structure to a bottom-line conscious mentality the sport will be scaled back dramatically and long-suffering customers will feel the squeeze of the new penny-pinching owners.

In addition, it will be interesting to see how much a gaming company would be willing to pay for NYRA’S assets. A business outside the industry might be fooled by the hype, but an entity like Churchill Downs or Magna should be able to figure out that one of NYRA’s biggest problems was the new partner of the new owner: the state. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/horse-racing

[thespaah]

Some interesting points raised in the following piece, specifically about the dirty underbelly of NY racing...the state of New York:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/horse-racing
One of the mahor problems with NYRA and many other entities where government is involved, is the bloated salaries of management combined with high wages demanded by labor unions. Stupid work rules that prevent one person from being assigned different kinds of tasks.
Political patronage is what caused the largest legal book making firm to LOSE money and eventually go out of business. That would be NYC OTB.
Most of what NYRA does is IN SPITE of management. Not because of it.
As far as Thoroughbred racing in the US, NYRA is IT....All other jurisdictions come in a distant second.
Can another entity copy the NYRA model and keep New York racing at the top of the food chain? Who knows.
It is my concern that whomever steps in will milk the thing for every dime they can get out of it and then leave it an empty shell of what it once was.
....
BTW, Finley wrote a blog post on 9/7 advocating the extension of the Saratoga meeting to start July 4th....BAD MOVE!!!
Unless NYRA goes to a 5 day race week, such a schedule change would decimate the whole thing.
What makes Saratoga special for the fans is of course the atmosphere, but most importantly the brevity of the meet. They crave it. Most people start counting the days until opening day once they flip their calendar to June.
I think the 6 day week is too much now. Mid week crowds are often under 15k...The track should be dark Tuesdays AND Wednesdays. That's my opinion.
Too much a good thing can go bad real quick.
Let's hope no one comes along and screws up a good thing.

[PaceAdvantage]

One of the mahor problems with NYRA and many other entities where government is involved, is the bloated salaries of management combined with high wages demanded by labor unions. I disagree completely regarding "bloated salaries of management."

If they are widely regarded as the best and most popular racing venue in the country, should they not garner the highest salaries?

Compare their salaries with other major racing venue CEOs and upper level managers...then account for the fact that they operate most of the year in the NYC metro area...

Tell me again how bloated the salaries are when you're finished.

[thespaah]

I disagree completely regarding "bloated salaries of management."

If they are widely regarded as the best and most popular racing venue in the country, should they not garner the highest salaries?

Compare their salaries with other major racing venue CEOs and upper level managers...then account for the fact that they operate most of the year in the NYC metro area...

Tell me again how bloated the salaries are when you're finished.
These people are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.
IMO, that's absurd given the performance of the financials.
PA, I am a results oriented individual. Therefore, I think these people should be paid based on the performance of the organization in their charge. NYRA bleeds money....If the salaries are, in the opinion of some, justified, who then do we see about the fact NYRA loses so much money?
Who is held responsible?
In my world, if one works for me and my numbers indicate that person is costing my business money, that person is reminded to pick up the pace. The next time he is shown the door.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55490/nyra-releases-executive-salaries..
Is it possible that other jurisdictions pay more because those operate as "for profit" while NYRA is a "non-profit"?

[PaceAdvantage]

These people are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.
IMO, that's absurd given the performance of the financials.
PA, I am a results oriented individual. Therefore, I think these people should be paid based on the performance of the organization in their charge. NYRA bleeds money....If the salaries are, in the opinion of some, justified, who then do we see about the fact NYRA loses so much money?
Who is held responsible?
In my world, if one works for me and my numbers indicate that person is costing my business money, that person is reminded to pick up the pace. The next time he is shown the door.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55490/nyra-releases-executive-salaries..
Is it possible that other jurisdictions pay more because those operate as "for profit" while NYRA is a "non-profit"?Nobody said anything about NOT showing an under-performing executive the door. We're talking strictly about salary levels of executives.

Are you saying that because NYRA "bleeds money" that the salary levels of executives should be cut drastically?

OK. Let's say you do that. Let's also say you get rid of certain executives because you feel they are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Now, who are you going to hire to replace them? Who are you going to hire now that your salary level is completely non-competitive with similar positions in the NY metro area or with other top racing jurisdictions around the country?

Now you're working yourself into a much deeper death-spiral because now you aren't able to attract the level of executive NEEDED to return the position to its expected performance level.

[thespaah]

Nobody said anything about NOT showing an under-performing executive the door. We're talking strictly about salary levels of executives.

Are you saying that because NYRA "bleeds money" that the salary levels of executives should be cut drastically?

OK. Let's say you do that. Let's also say you get rid of certain executives because you feel they are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Now, who are you going to hire to replace them? Who are you going to hire now that your salary level is completely non-competitive with similar positions in the NY metro area or with other top racing jurisdictions around the country?

Now you're working yourself into a much deeper death-spiral because now you aren't able to attract the level of executive NEEDED to return the position to its expected performance level.
Correct. However, if NYRA is losing money, obviously someone or several people are not doing their jobs.
I admit money is the prime motivator. However, I believe there are many capable and hungry to succeed people out there that would jump at the chance to do those jobs for less money or on a pay for performance type schedule.
The kind of "paying for the supposed best and brightest" model is what has polluted and sometimes corrupted many government agencies.
High wages and protected jobs breed complacency and mediocrity.

[Stillriledup]

Nobody said anything about NOT showing an under-performing executive the door. We're talking strictly about salary levels of executives.

Are you saying that because NYRA "bleeds money" that the salary levels of executives should be cut drastically?

OK. Let's say you do that. Let's also say you get rid of certain executives because you feel they are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Now, who are you going to hire to replace them? Who are you going to hire now that your salary level is completely non-competitive with similar positions in the NY metro area or with other top racing jurisdictions around the country?

Now you're working yourself into a much deeper death-spiral because now you aren't able to attract the level of executive NEEDED to return the position to its expected performance level.

How about hiring someone who's not a friend or a relative of the person doing the hiring? You know, there are plenty of really smart and hungry recent college graduates who came from good schools who would love to work for the New York Racing Assn as an executive.

[thespaah]

How about hiring someone who's not a friend or a relative of the person doing the hiring? You know, there are plenty of really smart and hungry recent college graduates who came from good schools who would love to work for the New York Racing Assn as an executive.
That is what I am getting at.

[PaceAdvantage]

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy world.

You're going to hire a recent college grad to fill an executive position? Imagine the criticism NYRA would get if they did such a thing... :lol:

Yeah, there are lots of hungry recent grads out there...but NONE of them are ready to step into the role of CFO or some other executive position...come on man...

No other large corporate business structure would ever DARE to do such a foolish thing.

And this whole "friend or relative" baloney stillriledup posted about...what proof is there that this is rampant at NYRA?

I'll let you in on a non-secret. MANY of your high-level executive positions in all sorts of industries are filled THROUGH CONNECTIONS...do you think a majority of high-level executives simply submit a resume and go for an interview among 20 or 30 other candidates like they were going for some clerk position?

Most high level executives are recruited because they are known in the industry...and they likely know someone at the company they are being recruited for...why the insinuation that nepotism/cronyism is more rampant at NYRA than other large corporate entities? Where is your proof?

[onefast99]

A recent college grad in an executives position at NYRA? I thought they did a sequel to Changing Places and it failed!

[lamboguy]

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy world.

You're going to hire a recent college grad to fill an executive position? Imagine the criticism NYRA would get if they did such a thing... :lol:

Yeah, there are lots of hungry recent grads out there...but NONE of them are ready to step into the role of CFO or some other executive position...come on man...

No other large corporate business structure would ever DARE to do such a foolish thing.

And this whole "friend or relative" baloney stillriledup posted about...what proof is there that this is rampant at NYRA?

I'll let you in on a non-secret. MANY of your high-level executive positions in all sorts of industries are filled THROUGH CONNECTIONS...do you think a majority of high-level executives simply submit a resume and go for an interview among 20 or 30 other candidates like they were going for some clerk position?

Most high level executives are recruited because they are known in the industry...and they likely know someone at the company they are being recruited for...why the insinuation that nepotism/cronyism is more rampant at NYRA than other large corporate entities? Where is your proof?i agree with you 100%.

if this governor cared about racing he would bring back BILL NADER, give him a free hand, and pay him whatever he wants to bring back racing to this country. i am not saying that because he was a friend of mine, he is the only guy capable of taking racing out of the mess it in now. there is no better place to start than in New York.

if you read Jeff P's post yesterday about drugs and the Hong Kong racing scene, its BILL NADER that was behind all of that in Hong Kong

[Robert Goren]

yes, they should sell everything connected to the racing operations. I am a liberal who believes that sometimes the government need own some essential businesses from time to time. horse racing is not considered essential business by anyone I know. The NY race tracks should never have been taken over by the state in the first place. The ONLY job the state has in racing is making sure the bettors get fair shake when they bet their money. What surprises me is that so many people who call themselves conservatives and claimed to limited government involvement in almost everything seem and think that private enterprise can run anything better than a government seem to think that the State of NY should continue own and run the race tracks. If private enterprise can make horse racing in NY (or anyplace else for that matter) work, then it should be replaced by a more efficient business endeavor. That the way the free market works. 99% of the people will get along just fine if they never ran another horse race. Government should only step in when private enterprise can not provide needed services for a large number of people who need those services. A large number of people do not need horse races. It has nothing to do with how well NY has or has not ran the tracks, it is matter of the principle of free interprise with only government involvement when absolutely needed for the general welfare.

[Thomas Roulston]

The ridiculous spectacle that is turf racing at Aqueduct sure doesn't help this situation.

How about switching to a "real" synthetic surface, if that isn't a contradiction in terms, on the Aqueduct outer dirt track (so that it can be used through the winter), then not only growing grass on what is now the Inner Dirt Track, but tearing down the inside rail of the IDT and turning the Aqueduct turf course into a multi-lane turf course a la Arlington?

Then you can even float the idea of bringing back the summer meeting at Aqueduct that existed prior to 1977. With two separate meetings in the spring/summer instead of one, the Stewards could let more races stay on the turf when it rains, and we won't be treated to the debacle we witnessed at Belmont yesterday anywhere near as often, with three and four-horse fields in off-the-turf races - and don't know about you, but just once I would like to see a turf race run at a North American track where the turf was listed as "heavy," as opposed to taking it off the turf.

[thespaah]

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy world.

You're going to hire a recent college grad to fill an executive position? Imagine the criticism NYRA would get if they did such a thing... :lol:

Yeah, there are lots of hungry recent grads out there...but NONE of them are ready to step into the role of CFO or some other executive position...come on man...

No other large corporate business structure would ever DARE to do such a foolish thing.

And this whole "friend or relative" baloney stillriledup posted about...what proof is there that this is rampant at NYRA?

I'll let you in on a non-secret. MANY of your high-level executive positions in all sorts of industries are filled THROUGH CONNECTIONS...do you think a majority of high-level executives simply submit a resume and go for an interview among 20 or 30 other candidates like they were going for some clerk position?

Most high level executives are recruited because they are known in the industry...and they likely know someone at the company they are being recruited for...why the insinuation that nepotism/cronyism is more rampant at NYRA than other large corporate entities? Where is your proof?
So it your assertion that there is no political patronage going on at NYRA? That none of the highest paid people are part of "the network"?
Sorry, I just don't buy that.
The old ways of doing things are not working. Time to try something new. Think outside the box. Instead of attempting to run the business by recruiting known talent and then paying ridiculous amounts of money for it.
One must ask themselves, "what do these people actually do with their time at work"? "What do they produce"? "What do they accomplish in a work day?"
Ya know what I see?. I see Rome burning while a guys in $2,000 suits fiddle.

[PaceAdvantage]

So it your assertion that there is no political patronage going on at NYRA? That none of the highest paid people are part of "the network"?
Sorry, I just don't buy that.
The old ways of doing things are not working. Time to try something new. Think outside the box. Instead of attempting to run the business by recruiting known talent and then paying ridiculous amounts of money for it.
One must ask themselves, "what do these people actually do with their time at work"? "What do they produce"? "What do they accomplish in a work day?"
Ya know what I see?. I see Rome burning while a guys in $2,000 suits fiddle.You would. That's exactly what every jealous unskilled hack thinks of upper management. I'm not in upper management, btw...so don't take offense.

And where did I assert that there is NO political patronage going on at NYRA? Should I say that you are asserting that it's ALL political patronage? An equally ridiculous assertion I would gather. But maybe you believe this?

[thespaah]

You would. That's exactly what every jealous unskilled hack thinks of upper management. I'm not in upper management, btw...so don't take offense.

And where did I assert that there is NO political patronage going on at NYRA? Should I say that you are asserting that it's ALL political patronage? An equally ridiculous assertion I would gather. But maybe you believe this?
How did this turn from a discussion into an argument?
Just to clarify, I never stated nor implied ALL NYRA upper level management held their positions due to political patronage.
It is difficult to rationally debate an issue when one side has a vested interest in continuing the status quo.
"Jealous unskilled hack"? Surely that was not meant for me.
If it was, can you produce any comment I ever made to you that would warrant such an attack?
I come on here to discuss issues and have some fun.
Am I somehow being unclear?
Look, if you demand that no one have a point of view that conflicts with yours, by all means there are plenty of brands of decaff in the marketplace.

[PaceAdvantage]

It turned into a bit of an argument when you decided to put words in my mouth.

"So it your assertion that there is no political patronage going on at NYRA?"

Please point out to me what specific political patronage is going on at NYRA, if you will. We'll get back to having a discussion, if indeed that is what you're interested in...

And the "jealous unskilled hack" is a general thing. It's what most non-management types think of their managers. They sit around all day doing nothing and collecting big fat paychecks...

[thespaah]

It turned into a bit of an argument when you decided to put words in my mouth.

"So it your assertion that there is no political patronage going on at NYRA?"

Please point out to me what specific political patronage is going on at NYRA, if you will. We'll get back to having a discussion, if indeed that is what you're interested in...

And the "jealous unskilled hack" is a general thing. It's what most non-management types think of their managers. They sit around all day doing nothing and collecting big fat paychecks...
PA, I merely asked a question. I did not state you asserted there was no political patronage in existence at NYRA.
Let's look at this as from another viewpoint. The law of probability. I believe the odds against there being no political appointments or hires in NYRA to be nil. Given the general public's overwhelming distrust of government, past incidents of corruption in NY govt circles, it is probable that NYRA is not insulated from political patronage and back washing.
Nevertheless, the current management has much to answer for.
Once again, I look at results. If this business was owned by me, I would be calling people onto the carpet. My straightforward question would be "I am paying you x number of dollars per year and paying you well. I am not seeing positive results. What are you people doing with my money? And why am I continuing to pay you?"
If things at NYRA were running smoothly and the organization was not bleeding money, the point of all of this would be moot, yes?
Oh just to clarify, the LAST thing I would want for NYRA is for it to be taken over by the dopes in Albany. Sure as the sun rises, those geniuses would find a way to run it into the ground.

[Cratos]

A very good post and I agree with you

[davew]

I strongly suspect that if it gets sold to a private company, the purchaser will be an entity that currently has ownership of similar type operation.

If so, the fans will not be hurt as much as current employees and backstretch,
who will get squeezed and get less perks than have presently with more fees.

[thespaah]

I strongly suspect that if it gets sold to a private company, the purchaser will be an entity that currently has ownership of similar type operation.

If so, the fans will not be hurt as much as current employees and backstretch,
who will get squeezed and get less perks than have presently with more fees.
"Squeezed"? "Less perks"?...I am not sure I understand those terms in the context of the thread.
If you would, please clarify.
Thanks.