Rafael Soriano AL MVP?

[Stillriledup]

Yanks are 10 games out of division without this guy, he's by far the Yanks most valuable player. Trout and Cabrera are on two teams who arent going to make the playoffs, so, im not sure how 'valuable' those guys have been. Sure, their stats are off the charts....and, the Tigers and Angels had very high hopes for this season, so its not like Miggy and Trout are playing on bad teams, they are on teams who were supposed to 'do something' and make a lot of noise.

Now, Cabrera and Trout are the BEST players, but its the old argument about best vs most valuable. Soriano is pretty darn valuable for NYY, they're nowhere without him.

[cj]

Don't be ridiculous.

[OTM Al]

Don't be ridiculous.

I don't think he can do that.

Jeter could finish top 5 in the voting one would think.

[Stillriledup]

Don't be ridiculous.

I'd vote for Sori, unless you have a better candidate?

[andtheyreoff]

I was thinking about this, actually, and Soriano does have a good candidacy if you purely consider what players are "valuable" and which ones aren't.

I mean, when Mo got injured, everyone thought the Yankees were going to be in trouble without their big closer. But Soriano stepped in and filled the hole flawlessly. It's as if nothing ever happened.

Of course, he's not going to win the Cy Young, much less MVP- and he might not even win the Relief Man Award- but, make no mistake, he's been valuable.

That being said, if Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, how do you not give it to him?

[cj]

I'd vote for Sori, unless you have a better candidate?
He isn't even the top AL reliever, at least clear cut. Where would the O's be without Johnson, who has more saves? The guy from Tampa is right there too.

To say the Yankees would be 10 back implies not only would whoever closed in his place have to have blown at least 10 more saves than him, but that the Yankees would have lost 10 of those he blew. That just doesn't happen. Soriano has blown 3, the league leader is at 8.

[Valuist]

Yanks are 10 games out of division without this guy, he's by far the Yanks most valuable player. Trout and Cabrera are on two teams who arent going to make the playoffs, so, im not sure how 'valuable' those guys have been. Sure, their stats are off the charts....and, the Tigers and Angels had very high hopes for this season, so its not like Miggy and Trout are playing on bad teams, they are on teams who were supposed to 'do something' and make a lot of noise.

Now, Cabrera and Trout are the BEST players, but its the old argument about best vs most valuable. Soriano is pretty darn valuable for NYY, they're nowhere without him.

Cabrera is leading the league in batting and RBI's and 1 HR off the lead. That's your MVP and Trout gets RoY.

This isn't the NBA. In MLB its about who is having the best season.

[ElKabong]

I'd vote for Trout, personally. LAA was losing their ass, and were a joke before he was called up. Plus he does something Mig can't - play defense....Make that two things= Run the bases. Make that 3 things= rob batters of home runs about once a week.

Without him LAA is 5-10 games under .500.....Mig? IMHO, Put Adrian Beltre at 3b in Detroit and they're suddenly a better team.

[ElKabong]

I'd vote for Trout, personally. LAA was losing their ass, and were a joke before he was called up. Plus he does something Mig can't - play defense....Make that two things= Run the bases. Make that 3 things= rob batters of home runs about once a week.

Without him LAA is 5-10 games under .500.....Mig? IMHO, Put Adrian Beltre at 3b in Detroit and they're suddenly a better team.

RE: Beltre.....Comes off the sick bed, hits a 2 run HR in the 9th to break a tie @ LAA. If Trout doesn't qualify for MVP in some folks minds, Beltre does.

[Valuist]

Just looked at the WAR numbers. Trout is way in front at 9.2 and Cabrera is second at 6.8. Heard this morning that four previous Triple Crown winners didn't get MVP so there is a precedent.

But one thing I strongly believe: MVP should never go to a pitcher. They have their own award.

[cj]

Just looked at the WAR numbers. Trout is way in front at 9.2 and Cabrera is second at 6.8. Heard this morning that four previous Triple Crown winners didn't get MVP so there is a precedent.

But one thing I strongly believe: MVP should never go to a pitcher. They have their own award.

I'm torn on the pitcher thing, but a relief pitcher, never.

[Stillriledup]

He isn't even the top AL reliever, at least clear cut. Where would the O's be without Johnson, who has more saves? The guy from Tampa is right there too.

To say the Yankees would be 10 back implies not only would whoever closed in his place have to have blown at least 10 more saves than him, but that the Yankees would have lost 10 of those he blew. That just doesn't happen. Soriano has blown 3, the league leader is at 8.

Robbie (David Robertson) was slated to be the closer when Mo went down because he was 'next' on the pecking order. He showed in 1 or 2 starts that he didnt have closers 'mentality' and wasnt able to handle it. Now, he could eventually learn closers mentality, but at that moment, he wasnt ready for it.

Maybe i exaggerated by saying the Yanks would be 10 back, but i know that they would be at least a few games back and probably out of the race without Sori, he's been nails this year.

As far as the 'top' reliever or the best player, no, he's not the best player and might not be the top player, but the award is most VALUABLE and not best.

I know that over the years, this award typically goes to the hitter/every day player with the best stats, especially the best power stats, but its not the best player award, its most valuable and value is different from best.

[cj]

Robbie (David Robertson) was slated to be the closer when Mo went down because he was 'next' on the pecking order. He showed in 1 or 2 starts that he didnt have closers 'mentality' and wasnt able to handle it. Now, he could eventually learn closers mentality, but at that moment, he wasnt ready for it.

Maybe i exaggerated by saying the Yanks would be 10 back, but i know that they would be at least a few games back and probably out of the race without Sori, he's been nails this year.

As far as the 'top' reliever or the best player, no, he's not the best player and might not be the top player, but the award is most VALUABLE and not best.

I know that over the years, this award typically goes to the hitter/every day player with the best stats, especially the best power stats, but its not the best player award, its most valuable and value is different from best.
So how is he more valuable than Johnson?

[Stillriledup]

So how is he more valuable than Johnson?

Because Johnson didnt replace Mariano Rivera.

[ElKabong]

Heard this morning that four previous Triple Crown winners didn't get MVP so there is a precedent.



That I didn't know. Shocking, to me.

[ElKabong]

Just looked at the WAR numbers. .

BR has their #s on the home page, I've never seen a wider gap between 1 and 2 before

http://www.baseball-reference.com/


A.L. WAR Bat / Pitch
Tm WAR
M.Trout LAA 10.1
J.Verlander DET 6.9
R.Cano NYY 6.8
M.Cabrera DET 6.5
A.Beltre TEX 6.0



N.L. WAR Bat / Pitch
Tm WAR
A.McCutchen PIT 6.8
Y.Molina STL 6.8
R.Braun MIL 6.6
B.Posey SFG 6.6
D.Wright NYM 6.3

[Stillriledup]

BR has their #s on the home page, I've never seen a wider gap between 1 and 2 before

http://www.baseball-reference.com/


A.L. WAR Bat / Pitch
Tm WAR
M.Trout LAA 10.1
J.Verlander DET 6.9
R.Cano NYY 6.8
M.Cabrera DET 6.5
A.Beltre TEX 6.0



N.L. WAR Bat / Pitch
Tm WAR
A.McCutchen PIT 6.8
Y.Molina STL 6.8
R.Braun MIL 6.6
B.Posey SFG 6.6
D.Wright NYM 6.3

How can WAR quantify the psychological part of things? Or, is WAR just raw number based?

[Pace Cap'n]

BR has their #s on the home page, I've never seen a wider gap between 1 and 2 before


Check out the career stats...

Babe Ruth 178.3
Cy Young 160.8

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow...Roger Clemens #8 on that list...and A-Rod #17, although I shouldn't be surprised at A-Rod at all, given his stats...I guess I let guys like Elkabong lull me into thinking sometimes that he's really just a worthless bum that does nothing but drag teams down... :lol:

[cj]

Because Johnson didnt replace Mariano Rivera.

So now who you replace matters? Get real.

[cj]

Wow...Roger Clemens #8 on that list...and A-Rod #17, although I shouldn't be surprised at A-Rod at all, given his stats...I guess I let guys like Elkabong lull me into thinking sometimes that he's really just a worthless bum that does nothing but drag teams down... :lol:

Don't you think a lot of that was MUCH earlier in his career?

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't you think a lot of that was MUCH earlier in his career?Considering he's 36 years old, of course...although I don't know about MUCH earlier...he was third in the AL in that stat in 2008...only four years ago...

The last three years, he's been ranked 26, 21 & 28 (2009, 2010, 2011)

[ElKabong]

Wow...Roger Clemens #8 on that list...and A-Rod #17, although I shouldn't be surprised at A-Rod at all, given his stats...I guess I let guys like Elkabong lull me into thinking sometimes that he's really just a worthless bum that does nothing but drag teams down... :lol:

Every day of A-Rod's career was drug aided. Remember, he admitted to juicing before being drafted.

No Soup, er, HOF for you!

[cj]

Every day of A-Rod's career was drug aided. Remember, he admitted to juicing before being drafted.

No Soup, er, HOF for you!

I wonder if post-Roid he would crack the top 500? I kinda doubt it.

[Stillriledup]

Every day of A-Rod's career was drug aided. Remember, he admitted to juicing before being drafted.

No Soup, er, HOF for you!

Every day? He's still pretty productive at 36, don't you think he would have 'fallen apart' if he had that much juice in his system since day 1 with no breaks?

[Valuist]

I don't care what all the Gen Y stat freaks think. Winning MLB's Triple Crown is more difficult than racing's Triple Crown. Cabrera's team won its division, Trout's didn't. I don't give a damn what the WAR numbers say, it HAS to be Cabrera.

[lsbets]

I don't care what all the Gen Y stat freaks think. Winning MLB's Triple Crown is more difficult than racing's Triple Crown. Cabrera's team won its division, Trout's didn't. I don't give a damn what the WAR numbers say, it HAS to be Cabrera.

Agreed. I don't see how anyone could not vote for him if he gets the TC. Trout should be unanimous ROY, Cabrera should be unanimous MVP.

[ElKabong]

I can't go with Cabrera. This isn't the Silver Slugger award, the guy has to play defense too.

He ranks 81rst in the AL for 3b-men in RTOT. Pathetic stuff.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2012-specialpos_3b-fielding.shtml

[Stillriledup]

I can't go with Cabrera. This isn't the Silver Slugger award, the guy has to play defense too.

He ranks 81rst in the AL for 3b-men in RTOT. Pathetic stuff.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2012-specialpos_3b-fielding.shtml

Its not the cybermetrics award either. Angels finish 3rd in their division with or without Trout.

[Hosshead]

With his fielding, batting, steals, speed (he runs out every ball he hits) ----Trout
He's an absolute future Hall Of Fame player, and I'd like to see him win MVP as a rookie, to look back some day and show that he was recoginized as "Great" ...from the start.