Beam Me Up

[hcap]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/warp-drive-star-trek-feasible_n_1890679.html

Warp Drive Like That On 'Star Trek' May Be Feasible After All, Physicists Say

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/775752/thumbs/s-WARP-DRIVE-large.jpg

HOUSTON — A warp drive to achieve faster-than-light travel — a concept popularized in television's Star Trek — may not be as unrealistic as once thought, scientists say.

A warp drive would manipulate space-time itself to move a starship, taking advantage of a loophole in the laws of physics that prevent anything from moving faster than light. A concept for a real-life warp drive was suggested in 1994 by Mexican physicist Miguel Alcubierre, however subsequent calculations found that such a device would require prohibitive amounts of energy.

[HUSKER55]

interesting! thanks for the post.

[Marshall Bennett]

We're off to the far reaches of the universe. :cool:

Seriously, this civilization will self-destruct before we ever get a foot off the ground towards the speed of light.
Carl Sagan suggested similar in his book "Cosmos". Advanced civilizations, more advanced than ours are few in that they self destruct or simply die out before technology allows them the benefit of space travel beyond their own neighborhood.
Advanced civilizations do exist, but not in the vast numbers many believe. The building blocks and mire odds against them are simply to astronomical.

[Jeff P]

An Alcubierre warp drive would involve a football-shape spacecraft attached to a large ring encircling it. This ring, potentially made of exotic matter, would cause space-time to warp around the starship, creating a region of contracted space in front of it and expanded space behind.

Meanwhile, the starship itself would stay inside a bubble of flat space-time that wasn't being warped at all.

Read more at the link:
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/09/17/warp-drive-may-be-more-feasible-than-thought-scientists-say/


Now that's cool.

Is it possible, that as a species, human beings develop the ability to travel faster than the speed of light before Arlington Park figures out how to time their races accurately?




-jp

.

[Greyfox]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/warp-drive-star-trek-feasible_n_1890679.html

Warp Drive Like That On 'Star Trek' May Be Feasible After All, Physicists Say

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/775752/thumbs/s-WARP-DRIVE-large.jpg

HOUSTON — A warp drive to achieve faster-than-light travel — a concept popularized in television's Star Trek — may not be as unrealistic as once thought, scientists say.

A warp drive would manipulate space-time itself to move a starship, taking advantage of a loophole in the laws of physics that prevent anything from moving faster than light. A concept for a real-life warp drive was suggested in 1994 by Mexican physicist Miguel Alcubierre, however subsequent calculations found that such a device would require prohibitive amounts of energy.

Intergalactic travel will never be possible using the type of rockets that have been used to date.
The use of worm holes and time warp concepts is the only conceivable way if and when the ability to use them is developed.
It may well be that extra terrestrials are ahead in that domain.

[FantasticDan]

They better start working on inertial dampers too.. any Star Trek fan can tell you that you can't have transportation using a warp field/bubble without them, otherwise your crew has a tendency to turn to jello when you "engage" :lol:

[Jeff P]

Warp drive, the transporter, phasers, photon torpedos, shields, the tricorder, a translator, doors that go 'shhht' when they open, etc... simply fantastic concepts for a TV show produced in 1966.

But the thing that kills me to this day (whenever I watch reruns) is that no one thought to equip the chairs on the Enterprise with seat belts.

The instant the ship gets hit by anything... some alien monster, enemy fire, etc., everyone on board goes flying and does a tuck and roll.

-jp

.

[DJofSD]

Jeff, along similar lines, it makes me laugh every time I see the manual controls for the weapons on the Death Star being used in any of the Star Wars movies.

[FantasticDan]

But the thing that kills me to this day (whenever I watch reruns) is that no one thought to equip the chairs on the Enterprise with seat belts. The instant the ship gets hit by anything... some alien monster, enemy fire, etc., everyone on board goes flying and does a tuck and roll.

You mean like this? :eek:

EmX3bU6ppUo

Seat belts during a crash landing.. who needs 'em! :lol:

Actually, they shouldn't really be necessary if the aforementioned inertial dampers are working, but that's dramatic license for ya.. :p

[Marshall Bennett]

The use of worm holes and time warp concepts is the only conceivable way if and when the ability to use them is developed.
It may well be that extra terrestrials are ahead in that domain.
Of course the concept is interesting. Imo however, a civilization would have to be far advanced than ours is now from the beginning. Then it might have the time needed to accomplish such enormous challenges. Capturing the forces of the universe to provide space travel would require skills we simply will never be able to accomplish. Far too many human elements stand in the way. The world is a mess, we can barely take care of ourselves.
Space travel deep into the universe is perhaps fun to think, read, and make movies about, but it will never happen from anywhere on Earth. I'm not so sure it's possible anywhere. Perhaps theoretically, but not realistically.

[hcap]

They better start working on inertial dampers too.. any Star Trek fan can tell you that you can't have transportation using a warp field/bubble without them, otherwise your crew has a tendency to turn to jello when you "engage" :lol:From the article: "Meanwhile, the starship itself would stay inside a bubble of flat space-time that wasn't being warped at all."

Sounds like the local bubble surrounding the craft would be an inertial damper. The warp outside would not be "connected" by newtons laws to the bubble inside. So this "loophole" in the laws of physics would allow some strange stuff.

[Greyfox]

Of course the concept is interesting. Imo however, a civilization would have to be far advanced than ours is now from the beginning. .

If you know anything about the Universe, several galaxies are umpteen thousands of years older than ours, in terms of the possibility of life forming.

[Marshall Bennett]

If you know anything about the Universe, several galaxies are umpteen thousands of years older than ours, in terms of the possibility of life forming.
It's always been a hobby of mine. There are old galaxies a few billion years older than ours at the far edge of the universe. I fail to see what that has to do with my post however.
What is the average life span of any advanced civilization? Considering all life forms that evolve throughout the universe I would consider ours one of those and we are nowhere close to advanced space travel.

[hcap]

If you know anything about the Universe, several galaxies are umpteen thousands of years older than ours, in terms of the possibility of life forming.
It's always been a hobby of mine. There are old galaxies a few billion years older than ours at the far edge of the universe. I fail to see what that has to do with my post however.
What is the average life span of any advanced civilization? Considering all life forms that evolve throughout the universe I would consider ours one of those and we are nowhere close to advanced space travel.


Technology is rapidly accelerating.
It is not a simple linear acceleration either. The industrial revolution started in Great Britian, during the 18th century. It slowly grew. Took maybe 150 years to develop the beginnings of automobile. Manned flight advanced much faster. Computers and information tech MUCH MUCH faster. And that is what probably will accelerate all new technologies at a mind boggling rate. From the Watt steam engine, developed beginning around 1763, to the I PHONE was extremely slow compared to the first PC to that same I PHONE.

Ray Kurzweil is the futurist's who coined "The Law of Accelerating Returns:

0he rate of change in a wide variety of evolutionary systems (including but not limited to the growth of technologies) tends to increase exponentially".

And comes to this scary conclusion....

"An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common-sense 'intuitive linear' view. So we won't experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century—it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today's rate)."

So we may be in uncharted territory as far as what this so-called "warp drive" can do. Honestly, I am skeptical and never thought I would see this in my lifetime

BUT.........

[Marshall Bennett]

What you're saying makes sense, but looking around you at the world, do we have time? The odds have to be stacked against us at this stage, and should we make it, the theory is an enormous challenge. I'd be surprised if it indeed exist anywhere in the universe.

[hcap]

What you're saying makes sense, but looking around you at the world, do we have time? The odds have to be stacked against us at this stage, and should we make it, the theory is an enormous challenge. I'd be surprised if it indeed exist anywhere in the universe.You could be right. The same acceleration taking place could lead to what Ray Kurzweil said about the The technological singularity

The technological singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity) is the hypothetical future emergence of greater-than-human superintelligence through technological means. Since the capabilities of such intelligence would be difficult for an unaided human mind to comprehend, the occurrence of a technological singularity is seen as an intellectual event horizon, beyond which events cannot be predicted or understood.


A number of SCIFI movies and novels have raised VERY scary scenarios.

[Greyfox]

. I'd be surprised if it indeed exist anywhere in the universe.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about existing elsewhere in the Universe.

Our planet Earth is in the Milky Way galaxy, which is over 120,000 light years across and contains between 200 to 400 billion stars. Scientists have identified thousands of planets in just this one galaxy.

However, with the aid of the Hubble telescope, astronomers are reporting that there are 3000 visible gallaxies and likely hundreds of millions of other gallaxies that we can't see, with billions of stars in each of them.

Considering the enormity of the numbers, it is highly probable that the Universe is teeming with life, and discoveries that are well in advance of what we have envisioned to date.

I wouldn't be surprised of the existence of anything elsewhere in the Universe.

[Marshall Bennett]

Considering the enormity of the numbers, it is highly probable that the Universe is teeming with life

Probably so, but what forms of life? Life existed here for millions of years before humans arrived. Not the kind of life that travels through space for sure.
Look, consider this and astronomy experts have said the same including Carl Sagan in his book. You have to go by percentages :
1. The % of stars that have planets
2. The % of those planets capable of sustaining life
3. The % of those planets where life actually evolves
4. The % of those that evolve into intelligent life
5. The % of those intelligent enough to adapt space travel, if indeed they choose to at all.
6. The % of those that sustain that intelligent life long enough before becoming extinct.

While you can cover 1 thru 3 and be correct, all 6 have to fully emerge to include the theory Hcap has described.
When you narrow down the percentages and look at it realistically, we may well be unique in the universe and as I've said, have barely gotten our feet off the ground. We are experiencing huge challenges here at home all around us, so our ability to escape is probably unlikely, if not impossible.
Unless a highly advanced life form evolves from the very beginning, unlike ours, I simply don't see them going anywhere. I'm not so sure life can evolve in that manner either. I don't believe in it.
So although we're likely not alone in the universe, it's highly unlikely others are fairing any better.

[Greyfox]

So although we're likely not alone in the universe, it's highly unlikely others are fairing any better.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Even humans with another few thousand years of development might produce some astounding discoveries.

Intelligent life elsewhere in the cosmos with a few million years advantage on us can definitely be great leaps and bounds ahead of us.
And there is accumulating evidence that such beings may have visited us from long distances already on many occasions.

[Tom]

I wouldn't be surprised of the existence of anything elsewhere in the Universe.

On Mars, WE are the UFOs!
Wouldn't it be a hoot is there are Martians going on TV shows up there and showing fuzzy video of our rover and swearing that they saw it? OR if a cult of Martians all show up at the rover trying to surrender to it and be saved? :lol:

There was Twilight Zone episode along those lines......now it might be real!



Or, our rover runs over a Martian kid and they launch a fleet of Martian Space Destroyers to avenge him?

[FantasticDan]

Or, our rover runs over a Martian kid and they launch a fleet of Martian Space Destroyers to avenge him?Meh.. the Martians are a bunch of wimps.. :D

HnEJrwYXXsI

[hcap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

The Fermi paradox or "Where is everybody?"

The Fermi paradox (or Fermi's paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilization and humanity's lack of contact with, or evidence for, such civilizations.[1] The basic points of the argument are:

* The sun is a young star. There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are billions of years older;
* If the Earth is typical, some of these stars likely have planets with intelligent life;
* Presumably some of these civilizations will develop interstellar travel, as Earth seems likely to do;
* At any practical pace of interstellar travel, the galaxy can be completely colonized in just a few tens of millions of years.
* The observable universe is currently believed to have at least 80 billion galaxies.

According to this line of thinking, the Earth should have already been colonized, or at least visited. But no convincing evidence of this exists. Hence Fermi's question "Where is everybody?".

[DJofSD]

Earth is not typical, or, at least the conditions imposed by our dependence upon water put some rather larger restrictions upon life. Liquid water exists in abundance on our planet because of the combinations of the parameters for our sun, the distance from the sun, the amount of gravity due to the mass of our earth, the temperatures and the range of temperatures. Tweak any of these, or others not mentioned, outside a fairly narrow set up parameters and it is doubtful life would be possible.

[Marshall Bennett]

Earth is not typical, or, at least the conditions imposed by our dependence upon water put some rather larger restrictions upon life. Liquid water exists in abundance on our planet because of the combinations of the parameters for our sun, the distance from the sun, the amount of gravity due to the mass of our earth, the temperatures and the range of temperatures. Tweak any of these, or others not mentioned, outside a fairly narrow set up parameters and it is doubtful life would be possible.
Bouncing back up to 2 and 3 of my post #18, these may be the 2 most difficult to obtain. Perhaps even more difficult is survival. How many planets are subjected to forces in their perimeter they have no control over. Dark matter, gravitational conditions. Our solar system is quite stable compared with many for sure.
As you say, the fundamental building blocks for life have to be in place. Water, a favorable atmosphere (extremely rare), and yet imo survival is perhaps the key to those as lucky as we are to exist.
Adding up all the factors and challenges, there's a good chance we are an extreme rarity. Given the enormous size of the universe, it's no wonder we've never been visited, if it's even possible.

[DJofSD]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2198884/New-super-earth-discovered-red-dwarf-star-Gliese-163-support-life-Earth.html

[Greyfox]

Given the enormous size of the universe, it's no wonder we've never been visited, if it's even possible.

You are absolutely sure of that?

If so you are in the minority.

With over a billion galaxies and billions of stars and planets, I would not rule out extra terrestrials and space/time travel.


http://articles.cnn.com/1997-06-15/us/9706_15_ufo.poll_1_ufo-aliens-crash-site?_s=PM:US
"CNN Nearly 50 years since an alleged UFO was sighted at Roswell, New Mexico, a new CNNTime poll released Sunday shows that 80 percent of Americans think the government is hiding knowledge of the existence of extraterrestrial life forms.

While nearly threequarters of the 1,024 adults questioned for the poll said they had never seen or known anyone who saw a UFO, 54 percent believe intelligent life exists outside Earth.

Sixtyfour percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans, half said theyve abducted humans, and 37 percent said they have contacted the U.S. government. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points."

[Marshall Bennett]

I won't argue your point, it's almost like arguing over religion or politics. Some believe, some don't. Whether the majority believes isn't important.
What would amaze me is why anyone with that kind of highly advanced technology would waste their time with such primates as us. Also I ask, if they've been here or are presently here, where are they? Are they that advanced they can't be detected with all the tracking technology we have?
Come on, the more you understand the cosmos and the vastness of the universe, the less likely you are to believe in such nonsense, and that's all it is. It may be fun to dream about, but it's totally unreal.
I said I wouldn't argue, but cant help but add one last point. If they were he among us, or we knew for sure we could be zapped out of the solar system by an alien invasion at any moment, wouldn't you be scared shitless? I would be and so would everyone else.

[DJofSD]

What would amaze me is why anyone with that kind of highly advanced technology would waste their time with such primates as us.

Watch the episode of Twilight Zone "To Serve Man."

[Greyfox]

If they were he among us, or we knew for sure we could be zapped out of the solar system by an alien invasion at any moment, wouldn't you be scared shitless? I would be and so would everyone else.

No.

We can already be zapped out of the solar system at any moment without aliens doing it. That technology exists on earth.

[bigmack]

Watch the episode of Twilight Zone "To Serve Man."
Proof positive aliens have perfected the art of ventriloquism.

U5NWCD7D5n8

[Marshall Bennett]

No.

We can already be zapped out of the solar system at any moment without aliens doing it. That technology exists on earth.
Perhaps so, but we have a hell of a lot more control over what happens here on Earth than from light years away if indeed it they exist.

[DJofSD]

We can already be zapped out of the solar system at any moment without aliens doing it.

Yes. It's called a solar flare.

Big enough and in the "wrong" direction, we're as good as toast. Might not be an immediate zap and elimination of all humanity but the end result would be the same.

[Marshall Bennett]

Or a wayward meteor a quarter mile in diameter. Small, hard to detect though could be detected, but not in enough time to do a whole lot about it.
Even much larger meteors or small asteroids that can be detected weeks and months in advance offer a challenge if headed directly for earth. You don't want to bust it up, that would only give it a shotgun effect at us though the result could be more favorable than a direct blow. Forcing it to veer would be the only real hope, quite a challenge with only weeks to prepare.
A massive supernova from the inner region of our galaxy could be fatal. Extremely hard to detect because of the enormous amount of light and dust between us and the explosion. We've never really explored the core of the Milky Way because it's totally blocked from our sight or any telescopes. Who knows for sure what lurks there. We can only imagine by what we've learned from studying other spiral galaxies such as Andromeda.
Sweet dreams tonight everyone!!! :lol:

[bigmack]

If you get a chance to see the new film, Seeking a Friend for the End of the World, about an asteroid hastening towards earth to kill every living being, staring Steve Carrell, don't.

In fact, AVOID IT at all costs. So slow and painful you'll think of performing hara-kiri 40 minutes in.

http://www.harrycarays.com/images/about_harry_pic1.jpg