A deserving award?

[Show Me the Wire]

Long post.

I know this is old news, but I cannot understand the lovefest on the Barn to Wire board about Mr. Duchossois and the award, based on the following observations.

In my opinion Mr. Dick Duchossois receiving a career eclipse award is a travesty exhibiting how little racing’s officials regard integrity. This year Mr. Duchossois supervised a meet that featured non-competitive races comprised of small fields compounded with major unexplained irregularities. The 2003 AP meet featured major wagering irregularities, which were never satisfactorily explained to the wagering public, while actively misleading the wagering public.

AP featured frequent odds drops during races, one of the most prominent of these was the “Rainy Day Rules” victory, it also featured the “pending pick 3 payoff, as well as the pick 3 payoff that was smaller than the winning mutual price of the last leg’s winner and the infamous “Mystery Giver” weight fiasco.

None of these items were properly explained to the public. AP’s management made vague statements about no abnormalities were found. Excuse me; a pending pick 3 is an abnormality, especially after the actual payout is lower than the payout posted prior to the running of the third and final leg. Mr. Duchossois and Cliff Goodrich a pending pick 3 is an abnormality.

A large odds drop during a race is an abnormality, as well as pick 3 payout that pays less than the winning mutual price of the longest price on the board. When this unusual circumstance was reported heavily on TVG, AP went on the offensive. AP’ publicity department called TVG and explained the numbers were skewed due to the pick 3 pay-off was an all in the third leg. Based on this misinformation TVG retracted Matt Carothers statement about the uniqueness of this payout and publicized the all payout. The subterfuge is the pick 3 was not an all payout but for three winners with the $200. plus horse winning the third leg of the publicized third leg. The publicity department was referring to the third leg of the pick 3, beginning with the first leg won by the $ 200. plus horse an entirely different payout than Matt Carothers questioned.

AP’s management showed a penchant for releasing false information to the public throughout the meet. Another flagrant lie involved Mystery Giver. Mystery Giver prior to the post parade was called back to the paddock. The real reason for the return to the paddock was to correct the weight carried by Mystery Giver. Some how it was determined that Mystery Giver accidentally had more impost added because a malfunctioning official weight scale. However, the announcer informed, the public, that Mystery Giver returned to the paddock because of shoe problems. This information was a lie to cover up a severe problem. Once, again Cliff Goodrich announced after an investigation the scale malfunctioned and it only malfunctioned for Mystery Giver and no other horse. AP intentionally lied to the public and then tried to minimize its deception.

Mr. Duchossois bears the responsibility for management’s actions in these matters and these actions certainly benefited racing by making the public believe nothing unusual or abnormal occurred. The awarding of an Eclipse award to this man is a farce, as he encouraged a culture of lies and cover-ups regarding AP’s 2003 race meet. I say shame on the Eclipse selectors for this travesty encouraging ineptitude and dishonesty while running a premiere venue.

Mr. Duchossois should also be applauded for shuttering AP for several years and leaving Hawthorne carry Illinois racing.

Mr. Duchossois and Mr. Goodrich, I believe you hope the public will forget as time passes, but I assure you we will not forget and we will demand more accountability for the funds you are compensated to hold on-behalf of the wagering public.



Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Valuist]

Agree that AP's meet was a major disappointment. And I've never been a huge fan of Duchossois; some of his visions like making Arlington an international track and trying to significantly cut back on claiming races like they did when they re-opened in 1989 just did not work, but he did change....and I believe Arlington has gotten far worse since CDI came into the picture. We've already seen what's happened to Hollywood the past few years. Hol is completely unbettable and AP isn't far behind. CDI has also brought in such great innovations as the $6 admission; 30 minutes between races. I've always preferred Haw to AP as a bettor, and CDI just makes it easier to dislike Arlington.

[Steve 'StatMan']

SMTW - I can't agree with a lot of the decisions Mr. D. and others have made running AP over the years, but I do appreciate the nice palace to play the horses in. I do have enough respect for him to be glad for him, despite my opinions on how the place is run. Most of us on B.T.W. pretty much think the place (and IL racing & legislation) has been generally mismanaged, most prices are way too high, etc. (some current threads are on that topic). I sure wouldn't call what most people write about AP as a "love fest". But who would want to trash him on the local website, where I'm sure stuff gets printed and passed around to management over at AP? They've got lots of problems at AP, no doubt. Yes, likely even worse with CDSI and Goodrich's arrival. The 2003 meet was pretty darn awful, for all the reasons you mentioned, in addition to the pricing, etc.

Well, to see Mr. D. honored with an Eclipse Award, albeit odd this year as opposed to other years, is a much better honor for him, than waiting until he dies to name a race or a street after him. So, I'll be gratious and happy for him. But I'll still watch every dollar I spend there. ;)

[Steve 'StatMan']

Oh, yes, and I say it a lot on BTW, but I'll say it here - HAW is defintely the better place to bet. Get their Hawthorne Rewards Card, and earn up 4% back on your live wagers, 2% on simulcast wagers, and occasional bonus points and promotions. Only available on track at HAW. It's starting to make me wish I lived closer to HAW than near AP!

[Show Me the Wire]

My problem is with the lack of integrity shown by AP's management. The other items you and Valuist mentioned are true, but outright lies were told to the public. The giving of an Eclipse award seems to legitimize AP's malfeasance with the publics' trust, in this critical time.

I want people to remember they were deliberately lied to and not that the prices are high.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Steve 'StatMan']

Yes, I got fooled by that 'shoe' announcement, and took him out of my betting strategy, thinking his foot could be sore from the need for reshoeing. I'd have left him in over the weight issue. That they did tell the wrong information, and then try to cover it up later, was totally poor. But I don't think Mr. D. had anything to do with that directly (probably happened too fast for him to know about it as it happened) - although he is likely responsible for the culture that denies mistakes and bad things happen - which probably fosters the need for mistake makers to hide their identities and/or problems when they occur, to avoid job reprecussions. Let's put it this way - from what I've heard, I'm glad I don't work for the place. But there are also many companies that are like that, and I'm glad I don't work those either.

[jrstark@BTW]

Lovefest? Please, Mr. D. deserves the Eclipse. It's a lifetime achievement award for all he has done for Thoroughbred racing.

Arlington is an international showplace. Mr. Duchoissois has been responsible for many groundbreaking events: the first million dollar purse, rebuilding after the fire, bringing in Cigar to tie Citation's record, the first Chicago Breeders' Cup among others.

Ridiculous odds drops are nothing new, they are happening all over. All the program whales are waiting until the last minute, 20-50% of various pools is hitting on the last several clicks. This is not just an Arlington problem, it is every track in the country.

Mystery Giver was a messed up scale. His jock was the last to weigh in that race, they didn't realize the scale was off until it happened again to the first two jocks in the next race. Dooley announced it was a shoe problem as the horses were going through the tunnel.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Right, because Dooley was told by a manager that it was a shoe problem. Sadly, the manager denied he told the annoucer the wrong information.

[Show Me the Wire]

jrstark@BTW:

You left out the part about him shuttering AP for a couple of years. Add that to his resume for ground breaking.

Lovefest, see what I mean!

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[jrstark@BTW]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
Yes, I got fooled by that 'shoe' announcement, and took him out of my betting strategy, thinking his foot could be sore from the need for reshoeing. I'd have left him in over the weight issue.

If you'd seen the way he was acting in the paddock you would have taken him out regardless of why he was sent back. Mystery Giver was all revved up that day, and breaking his routine is probably what caused him to veer coming out of the gate.

I only wish I'd gone back and changed my bet when I heard the announcement :(

[Steve 'StatMan']

I'm not an Eclipse voter, so I don't know if there were other choices, or how that works. I can be glad for Mr D even if I wouldn't necessarily have voted for him, at least not this year, anyway. Of course, with the recent sad losses of prominent trainers Gene Cilio and J. R. Smith Sr., maybe it is good some recognition happened in time.

What do I know? I don't understand Graded Stakes Committees and Eclipe Award Nominations, and a lot of that stuff. Give me races. I don't mind the local stock too much, and they end up at HAW anyway. Gives me a chance to get better numbers on them. Give me 8 equally matched shippers and I end up with a passadena. I bet far more money on the local races than on the stakes races. But that is me.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I wish I'd only lowered him in my trifecta order, instead of throwing him out altogether.:(

[jrstark@BTW]

Originally posted by Show Me the Wire
jrstark@BTW:

You left out the part about him shuttering AP for a couple of years. Add that to his resume for ground breaking.

Lovefest, see what I mean!

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

Show Me the Wire, I didn't like Arlington being closed either, but what did you expect him to do?

Do you know that originally Arlington Heights didn't want to lower the property taxes during the rebuilding? They wanted AP to continue paying based on the value of an open, moneymaking enterprise.

The casino situation took a lot of money away from the tracks. This is still a problem, the 10th license (that is supposed to raise money for the tracks) is still not open, and the state will do whatever it can to keep us from ever seeing that money.

Recapture hasn't been funded in two years, and now Ag is talking about taking away the state-bred purse supplements.

The things you are talking about happen everywhere, they aren't specific to Arlington.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally posted by jrstark@BTW
Show Me the Wire, I didn't like Arlington being closed either, but what did you expect him to do?

Do you know that originally Arlington Heights didn't want to lower the property taxes during the rebuilding? They wanted AP to continue paying based on the value of an open, moneymaking enterprise.

The casino situation took a lot of money away from the tracks. This is still a problem, the 10th license (that is supposed to raise money for the tracks) is still not open, and the state will do whatever it can to keep us from ever seeing that money.

Recapture hasn't been funded in two years, and now Ag is talking about taking away the state-bred purse supplements.

The things you are talking about happen everywhere, they aren't specific to Arlington.


I did not know about Arlington Height's desire to tax AP as an ongoing business. However, I am sure Mr. D knew he could get relief from the County board of appeals since his property was essentially vacant and the tax value would be adjusted.

You mean to tell me every track calls TVG to address a correct comment by Matt Carothers, with false information and allows TVG to broadcast a retraction of the true statement while repeatedly airing a lie that the pick 3 paid all in the third leg. Also, every other track actually has pending pick 3 payouts after the third leg is official resulting in a lower payout than posted prior to the running of the thirde leg and say nothing is unusual about it? I am sure the Mystery Giver scenario is enacted at every track too, especially the part of having a shield device installed to prevent tampeering with the weight adjustment.

I am sure all tracks have mistakes, but it is how they handle the mistakes. AP handles its mistakes with lies and deceit and the responsibility for that type of management style lies at the top of the heap.

If you respond please indicate what specific tracks, besides AP, called TVG with false information along with the other specifics I detailed about AP's deceits.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Show Me the Wire]

jrstark@BTW or janine:

I know you like Mr. D. for his support of the anti-slaughter bill and other things he has personally done. However, there is no getting around the fact AP actively put out false information to make themselves look good at the expense of the public. That is the bottom line.

Maybe Mr. D should get an award for being a humanatarian or for something else to recognize his good qualities, but not an Eclipse because of AP's lack of integrity this year.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[jrstark@BTW]

SMTW, I don't get TVG so can't address the specific payoff you are referring. I also don't regularly play Pick X bets. I do know that something like that would have been reported in the local papers and people would have talked about it on my board.

The Mystery Giver situation was hashed out everywhere. But blaming a stewards decision and a "real time" announcement on Mr. D? That's stretching.

Same with the odds drops. I do like FG's decision and hope other tracks follow. I don't bet short odds horses, but it is frustrating that it is now happening to mid-odds too. This fall (after Arlington closed) I had one pick that was holding at 4-1 or 5-1 most of the time before the race, but ended up paying $3 something after that last big click. I watch the tote and see how much is coming in at the last minute. You think win odds are bad, check out the show pools.

There's a thread now at BTW discussing this thread. I like ClockerTerry's answer ;-)

[Show Me the Wire]

Does Mynameischase ring a bell?

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Valuist]

What I remember about Mynameischase is that he (allegedlly:rolleyes: ) was owned by a bookie and the horse won at over 100-1 and two more times at over 15-1.

[VetScratch]

Back before he closed and right after he re-opened AP, when my relations used to run in Chicago, I had the privilege to be in Mr. D's company on about a dozen occasions. I was young and in awe, but nothing about his personality really bothered me as compared to some of the backside characters in the limelight on the Chicago circuit. I think his visions for AP brought out the wrath of many Illinois horsemen.

(1) He (as well as the Careys) stuck Stormy Bidwell with the expense of the annual Illinois-Bred Day of stakes that was originally conceived as an event that would rotate among the three tracks.
(2) He gave stall preferences to outfits from KY and other states who filled up AP barns with young horses in training while keeping most of their runners back home... and forcing the regular guard on the Chicago circuit to do a lot of local vanning for lack of enough AP stalls.
(3) He clearly prioritized his lobbying campaign for slots above all else and closed AP after a tiff and rebuff by legislators.
(4) He was seen as indifferent at best to the welfare of the Illinois horse industry and lobbyied to eliminate requirements to run a minimum number of Illinois-bred races at AP.
(5) He apparently despised Phil Georgeff whose repertoire of signature calls included, "Spinning out of the turn, LittleLocalBred is in full gear, and THIS ILLINOIS-BRED REALLY MEANS BUSINESS as..."

He admittedly always did have a vision of creating a North American Ascot, and you could eat off the floor at the glistening AP showcase he personally rebuilt after the big fire.

He jolted the various special interests so hard that he actually deserves credit for upsetting the business-as-usual inertia and indirectly precipitating breeder/owner award reforms aimed at saving the Illinois horsemen.

In the end, a better candidate for an Eclipse than Pete Rose to manage baseball again.

[Valuist]

Point number 2 that Vet Scratch mentioned is a real sore spot among the locals. Guys like Harty and Lukas come in and are given a ton of stalls and they rarely run. Who needs that? And a guy like Noel Hickey, who was AP's leading trainer a couple of times in the early 90s, was once again denied stalls because Duchossois has a personal vendetta against him.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I don't know about Mr. D.'s opinion on Phil Georgeff. I do remember the prior owners, Madison Square Garden, detested Georgeff's style and were the ones that ordered him to change, and drove him away. Mr. D. was one of the 5 partners that bought the track from MSG and that group brought Georgeff back, and I he came back from sometime in '83 or '84 until he retired after the '92 season.

[Valuist]

That is exactly correct, re: Georgeff. I think it was around '82 they brought in Imbriale from New York and then Tony Bentley for most of '83. I remember they brought Georgeff back in a helicopter and that was it for Bentley. Georgeff would never be confused with Marshall Cassidy's style but that's ok. When you have a decent bet going and your horse makes its winning move in the stretch, its nice to hear a little enthusiasm, as opposed to "its Prickly Pete.......in front". Georgeff was also one of the first announcers to call who got second and third.

[VetScratch]

I can't remember the other names, but thought Georgeff sounded more like Chicago than the import who sounded like he was reading for a part in an Indianapolis Shakespearean Festival.

[Steve 'StatMan']

After Phil came Kurt Becker, Kevin Goemmer, Michael Wrona and currently John G. Dooley.

At Haw/Spt, the succession went Becker, Goemmer, Vic Stoffer, Dooley & currently Peter Galasi.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Whoops! Staufer was there twice - also after Becker & before Goemmer.

[Show Me the Wire]

I have to be impressed with AP's publicity machine. After a few factual comments about AP's management actions, under Mr. D. the racing public is treated to DRF's Jay Hovdey writing about Mr. D stepping up.

In all fairness, I did not read the article and I am not going too, just pointing out the timing of it.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality