Libya provided advanced warning before attack

[ElKabong]

Right now, being reported on CNN.

[ElKabong]

sounds like the 4 killed were ratted out @ their hiding place....stood no chance.....they needed to get out sooner, didn't or couldn't

[bigmack]

That's preposterous. Propellerhead here said they had no warning.

http://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/4c242220115f481091e420b3d7a994cb.jpg

400 surrounded the compound, 30 security staff ran away. FAST.

[ElKabong]

Mack,

at lunch I read parts of his breifing, couldn't believe what i was reading....Feinstein and Rogers were both on record saying this was looking more and more like an organized attack, not a demonstration vs a movie. I thought maybe there was new Intel that it was all about the flick.

Now there's little doubt what happened in Egypt was planned out.....and today a major assault on one of our Afghan bases

This admin can't get it right, it's frustrating as hell.

[PaceAdvantage]

Forget the Arab spring...this sounds like the Arab fall to me...an organized, concerted effort to attack and embarrass the United States of America.

[bigmack]

Forget the Arab spring...this sounds like the Arab fall to me...an organized, concerted effort to attack and embarrass the United States of America.
Yo, Babalouie. That was a HELL of a post you penned last night about this imbroglio in the ME. Most eloquent. :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Sounds like Obama is trying to tacitly invite these attacks, desperately hoping for a "tail wagging the dog" scenario so that he can declare marital law right before the elections. This would be a win-win situation for Obama and his Muslim comrades, as the radicals know how weak he is, which would give them more shots at exploiting that for all its worth; and Obama gets to buy more time in the WH to push his agendas through.

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

Yo, Babalouie. That was a HELL of a post you penned last night about this imbroglio in the ME. Most eloquent. :ThmbUp:I do find it interesting there has not been one single direct response to that post you speak of...so maybe it wasn't so grand after all...

[cj's dad]

B Hussein Obama is a f-----g idiot. He is so far above his pay grade that it is laughable, He has to go.

[bigmack]

I do find it interesting there has not been one single direct response to that post you speak of...so maybe it wasn't so grand after all...
I was gonna but you're on my list. Took everything I had to commend you in this thread. But as you know, I don't give a shit. :p

No one responding to your post is akin to hot chicks that don't get axed out. So eloquent/beautiful they's intimidatin'.

[JBmadera]

B Hussein Obama is a f-----g idiot. He is so far above his pay grade that it is laughable, He has to go.


He's performing as expected, for a communist from Kenya.

[ArlJim78]

from Nov 2007 radio interview,


OBAMA: “I truly believe that the day I’m
inaugurated . . . not only does the country look at itself differently, but the
world looks at America differently. . . . If am reaching out to the Muslim world
they will understand that I've lived in a Muslim country....I'm intimately
concerned with what happens in this countries and the cultures and perspectives these folks have. Those are powerful tools for us to be able to reach out to the world.... The world will have confidence that I am listening to them, and that our future and our security is tied up with our ability to work with other countries in the world.... That will ultimately make us safer.”

so lets see how that working out. this week the al qaeda flag flew over 4-5 of our embassies after they were overrun, one was attacked and burned while our our ambassador and several other were tortured and killed, crowds are amassing everywhere chanting "death to America" and "Obama, Obama, we are all Osama".
we have no respect in the ME now, and no control over events either. I mean we have already told Iran that we will not go along with an Isaeli strike, we've just installed Islamic regimes in Libya and Egpyt, so we can't exactly go after them now, we're getting our ass handed to us in Afghanistan in the war that Obama said we must fight. you might not know that we are even fighting a war but yes we are still passing those "grim milestones" on a regular basis but for some reason the media just doesn't have the interest in covering it for the last several years.

meanwhile our government has sprung into action by having the DOJ look into pressing charges against some filmmaker that nobody knows, the chairman of the joint chiefs personally called on a simple country pastor in Florida, the Koran buring guy, asking him to distance himself from the so-called offensive film. meanwhile Obama and Hillary have now transitioned from their bravado talk of a few weeks ago about getting Osama and the "Gutsy call", to now giving us constant reminders that we need to have religious tolerance for one particular religion.

we look weak, very week right now.

[ElKabong]

from Nov 2007 radio interview,

so lets see how that working out. this week the al qaeda flag flew over 4-5 of our embassies after they were overrun, one was attacked and burned while our our ambassador and several other were tortured and killed, crowds are amassing everywhere chanting "death to America" and "Obama, Obama, we are all Osama".
we have no respect in the ME now, and no control over events either. I mean we have already told Iran that we will not go along with an Isaeli strike, we've just installed Islamic regimes in Libya and Egpyt, so we can't exactly go after them now, we're getting our ass handed to us in Afghanistan in the war that Obama said we must fight. you might not know that we are even fighting a war but yes we are still passing those "grim milestones" on a regular basis but for some reason the media just doesn't have the interest in covering it for the last several years.

meanwhile our government has sprung into action by having the DOJ look into pressing charges against some filmmaker that nobody knows, the chairman of the joint chiefs personally called on a simple country pastor in Florida, the Koran buring guy, asking him to distance himself from the so-called offensive film. meanwhile Obama and Hillary have now transitioned from their bravado talk of a few weeks ago about getting Osama and the "Gutsy call", to now giving us constant reminders that we need to have religious tolerance for one particular religion.

we look weak, very week right now.

Nailed it (2nd time i've posted that 2 word comment in the past 24 hrs)

[Itamaraca]

We need Bush and Cheney doing some more bunker cowering. Now, THAT was strength. :lol:

[ElKabong]

We need Bush and Cheney doing some more bunker cowering. Now, THAT was strength. :lol:

???? How is this relevant?

[bigmack]

crowds are amassing everywhere chanting "death to America" and "Obama, Obama, we are all Osama".
Guess where that's coming from? Lupe here.

I'm serious. That kind of spiking the ball and leaning into OBL name MUST have rubbed them. Only makes sense.

bKCwQnIygcw

-------------

WOWZER! The media coverage has been as shocking as that Georgie Z caper. I haven't been watching much but on one screen I see Butch Maddow in her 30th minute of the show and she just finished a story on birth control in Virginia and then over to a ruling on Walker/unions in Wisconsin !!

WITH ALL THE NEWS BUSTIN' OUT ALL OVER THE WOILD ?

Holy Bejesus, how do these people live with themselves? F-ing TOOLS.

That moran Scarbourough yapping day after day about Romney.

Unreal.

[Tom]

They were Americans, not like the two bozos Obama and Clinton, who are directly responsibly the what is going on in the ME. That is why they keep repeating the lie about the film - to cover their stupid action over there where we lost a 30 year ally in Egypt thanks to totally incompetent leadership.

This is happening just like it did in 1979 with the other world-class moron Carter.
The fact of the matter is, our enemies do not fear us and our allies do not trust us.

Obama is a complete clown to the rest of the world. That bitch Hilary even had the audacity to turn the service for the four victims into another opportunity to apologize to the savages for the film. This POS has to go - she is not fit for that job - she is not fit to clean toilets at our embassies.

[ElKabong]

Guess where that's coming from? Lupe here.

I'm serious. That kind of spiking the ball and leaning into OBL name MUST have rubbed them. Only makes sense.

bKCwQnIygcw

-------------

WOWZER! The media coverage has been as shocking as that Georgie Z caper. I haven't been watching much but on one screen I see Butch Maddow in her 30th minute of the show and she just finished a story on birth control in Virginia and then over to a ruling on Walker/unions in Wisconsin !!

WITH ALL THE NEWS BUSTIN' OUT ALL OVER THE WOILD ?

Holy Bejesus, how do these people live with themselves? F-ing TOOLS.

That moran Scarbourough yapping day after day about Romney.

Unreal.

From the vid: (about obama) "This man has courage in his heart, compassion in his soul" and two tickets to Vegas, baybee! Wwoohoo!!!!

[highnote]

"We don't like young men. We want you!" That is what the ad says at the bottom of the page.

Amazing how the adds on this page know the demographics of the posters! :D

[FantasticDan]

They were Americans, not like the two bozos Obama and Clinton, who are directly responsibly the what is going on in the ME. That is why they keep repeating the lie about the film - to cover their stupid action over there where we lost a 30 year ally in Egypt thanks to totally incompetent leadership.
Obama is a complete clown to the rest of the world. That bitch Hilary even had the audacity to turn the service for the four victims into another opportunity to apologize to the savages for the film.I know you live in your own warped reality, but it's just annoying when you make shit up.. read the transcript of Hillary's remarks..

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/09/14/transcript-video-hillary-clinton-speaks-at-ceremony-as-bodies-of-americans-killed-in-libya-arrive-in-the-us/

There is no apology for anything.

[Jay Trotter]

Obama is a complete clown to the rest of the world. Tom, I know this is a futile post, but take it from someone outside the borders of the USA, I would venture to say that Obama is greatly respected by the rest of the world. His willingness to be "inclusive" with American allies is very much appreciated -- not the opposite as you suggest.

[Tom]

I don't think a country as close to us in every way is hardy a good barometer...the rest of the world, especially the one that basically owns us disagrees with you. The muslims are in an uproar because they smell fear. This is Carter Part Duex - they do not fear us and they hate us. They are chanting Obama's name in the middle of riots. the bottom is about to drop out of this idiot.


Meanwhile, support for Obama has waned significantly in China. Since 2009, confidence in the American president has declined by 24 percentage points and approval of his policies has fallen 30 points.


http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/06/13/global-opinion-of-obama-slips-international-policies-faulted/

[Tom]

I know you live in your own warped reality, but it's just annoying when you make shit up.. read the transcript of Hillary's remarks..

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/09/14/transcript-video-hillary-clinton-speaks-at-ceremony-as-bodies-of-americans-killed-in-libya-arrive-in-the-us/

There is no apology for anything.

This has been a difficult week for the State Department and for our country. We’ve seen the heavy assault on our post in Benghazi that took the lives of those brave men. We’ve seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful internet video that we had nothing to do with.

That is her covering HER ass for HER incompetence - that film had nothing to do with the murders. Had she been doing her job, this could have been prevented. She and Obama have the blood on their hands.

[ArlJim78]

Tom, I know this is a futile post, but take it from someone outside the borders of the USA, I would venture to say that Obama is greatly respected by the rest of the world. His willingness to be "inclusive" with American allies is very much appreciated -- not the opposite as you suggest.
Hosni Mubarak and Bibi Netanyahu would beg to differ.

[ArlJim78]

I know you live in your own warped reality, but it's just annoying when you make shit up.. read the transcript of Hillary's remarks..

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/09/14/transcript-video-hillary-clinton-speaks-at-ceremony-as-bodies-of-americans-killed-in-libya-arrive-in-the-us/

There is no apology for anything.
her association of the violence with that film is terrible. there is ample evidence to the contrary and it scapegoats an American citizen who did nothing wrong. you may not call that an apology but it has a sympathetic apologist tone to it. "yeah we know about that awful film but we had nothing to do with it"

she's accountable for the safety of her envoys, and she failed to provide anything close to proper safety for those people in Egypt, the fact that she hides her culpability behind a stupid film which nobody saw is a disgrace.

[ElKabong]

Hosni Mubarak and Bibi Netanyahu would beg to differ.

Apparently angry crowds yelling Obama's name in hatred would too

-Hey Achmed, let's kill some Americans today

-Why?

-Because we respect Obama and love his tolerant policies in the Middle East

-Can we follow that up by screaming Obama's name in hatred and burn the US flag and placards with his images?

-OK

[FantasticDan]

her association of the violence with that film is terrible. there is ample evidence to the contrary and it scapegoats an American citizen who did nothing wrong. :confused: :confused: :bang:

[ElKabong]

Tom, I know this is a futile post, but take it from someone outside the borders of the USA, I would venture to say that Obama is greatly respected by the rest of the world. His willingness to be "inclusive" with American allies is very much appreciated -- not the opposite as you suggest.

We're seeing that appreciation at this very moment on CNN....all week long actually

[Jay Trotter]

I realize I'm swimming up stream here but I'll try again....

America's "real" allies, those who share the dream of democracy, entrepreneurship and world peace; those who stand together in times of conflict (Austrailia, Britian, Canada, Germany, etc.) appreciate being brought into the coalition and treated as real partners. Obama has done that more than was done previously.
As for those in the Middle East and other current hotspots, they disappoint on many counts. They bite the hand that feeds them. Their problem is not America or her allies, their problem is themselves. In many cases, the tyrants who ruled over them have been eliminated and they were given the opportunity to elect and rule themselves. Unfortunately, they can't seem to figure out how to get along and build their nations, so they lash out and blame the free world, especially America.

I'll equate this to the unionized, government employee who bitches every day about their lot in life (even though it is a fairly good one), rather than leaving the toxic environment they work in to find an endeavor that would fulfill them.

It saddens me that in today's world, filled with educated people, they can't figure out how to be a part of the mainstream. Could you imagine if any one of these tyrants of the past had the "cajones" to give up their power freely and declare their country to be a free and democratic nation without blood being spilled? They would be instant heroes and likely to be elected to rule; and forever remembered as the father of their nation. Too simply.

[Jeff P]

Jay, I think you are projecting worthy and noble attributes that you yourself posses onto others who are not worthy of your trust.

The sad fact is this: No matter how strongly you or I might otherwise wish, the world is and always will be a dangerous place. It is full of those whose first act should the opportunity present itself will be to stick a knife in your back - if for no other reason than they can.


-jp

.

[Show Me the Wire]

Jay has seen the light regarding the Arab world.

Welcome the the truth.

[Tom]

Jay, it is the Chinas and the Libyas and the Pakistans who are our problem.
Obama made a fool of himself with that stupid Cairo speech and his continued snubbing of Israel, our only true ally in the area is serious. If they think we will not stand up with Israel, and I do not think this we will with the dems in power, then the threat of a nuclear war in the ME is increased. Israel will use them if they have to, and I fully support them, over the USA under democrats. The idiots Obama and Clinton stepped in it with the Arab spring stuff, and gloating about killing Bin Laden.

The idea that the ME will ever be civilized, let alone free is ridiculous. Bush tried to establish two democracies, but in the end, it was like trying teach dogs to drive. People like these savages need to be under the jack boots a brutal dictators. They understand only violence. Weakness has been shown to be deadly to us, by the last three democrat presidents. We tried, but we were wrong. I worry about our people Obama has left in small numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan for no reason. they are a minority in a land of mad dogs.

While we love Canada, your approval of Obama and a looney gets me a cup of coffee. Unless you have a lot of guys willing to sneak over the border and vote democrat, I suggest you not turn your back on Obama - he will throw you guys under the bus as soon as look at you. With all the serious events in the ME this week, the moron Obama has chosen to spend time with David Letterman over Netanyahu...yahoos over yahus. this is a leader worthy of respect???? Just allow us time to rectify our stupid mistake of 2008.

I just wish we had better than Romney to offer.

[ElKabong]

America's "real" allies, those who share the dream of democracy, entrepreneurship and world peace; those who stand together in times of conflict (Austrailia, Britian, Canada, Germany, etc.) appreciate being brought into the coalition and treated as real partners. Obama has done that more than was done previously.


I would be interested in several instances of the above. Care to elaborate?

Thanks

[Jay Trotter]

I would be interested in several instances of the above. Care to elaborate?

ThanksAn instance would be "me telling you" how I feel about it and as someone who follows politics I'm also conveying the general sentiments of those in my Country.

I'll put it this way...............if you were a brother or a cousin to someone who is the presumed leader of whatever (as America is the presumed leader of the Free World) would you prefer to be bossed around and told what to do; or would you prefer to be treated as a partner with something to contribute no matter how small you might be?

Canada is 1/10 the population of the US but we are equally citizens of the world and contribute to the advancement of mankind in many worthy ways (ie. the Telephone). We are "often" right there with America when called to duty.

I don't wish to digress into a Democractic/Republican fight here, I'm just saying being "inclusive" is not a sign of weakness. It's how great things are built. The great American companies are built by people working together not in a vaccum!

[ElKabong]

Thank you kindly for the detailed reply of those instances I asked for. It's always enlightening when an individual details his thoughts with facts and events that portray the point trying to be made. Too many generalities being thrown around these days.

I wish you a nice day.

[ArlJim78]

We must make decisions based on the world we live in, the real world, not the world we wish it might be.
Jay there have been no partnerships with our real allies. Britain has been snubbed time and again, we snubbed the Poles on missile defense.
Quite simply Obama has been a disaster both foreign and domestically speaking. We are now in a weakened position which if you pay attention is what Obama wanted from the beginning. He did not care for us being so strong and powerful, he wanted to spread the wealth around, which he has been doing. He took the wealth of Egypt and Libya and turned it over to the Muslim Brotherhood, which is now teamed up with Iran and Syria. What a nightmare.
Carter cut the legs out from the Shah which turned over Iran to Khomeni, and now comes Carter II to finish the job and cut down Egypt and Libya and turn them over to the radicals.

[ElKabong]

We must make decisions based on the world we live in, the real world, not the world we wish it might be.


Yet that seems to be the "comfortable place" a lot of people hope for & decide to place themselves in. Feel good thoughts. Never mind the Brits. It just feels nice here behind the curtain.

There are SO many articles out of UK that piss on Obama after he's been exposed for what he is, I'm surprised people still are behind that curtain

[ArlJim78]

:confused: :confused: :bang:
is there a thought hidden in there somewhere?
what part didn't you understand?

[ArlJim78]

Yeah its a shame now that the regime has identified films as possible platforms for inciting violent murderous actions in the middle east, because surely they will now be calling on Kathryn Bigelow to shut down all production and cancel her movie project on killing bin laden. all of the "protestors" are chanting "Obama Obama, we're all Osama's", so it's obvious that they love bin Laden and that it would hurt their feelings for this film to be shown.
too bad, I know Obama wanted to show how "gutsy" he was to authorize the assassination of bin Laden, but we're in a new era now. the first ammendment is now subject to review pending whatever the mob says in the middle east. Hollywood will need to begin getting a green light on scripts from the State department before proceeding. it's a brave new world.

[Greyfox]

Canada is 1/10 the population of the US but we are equally citizens of the world and contribute to the advancement of mankind in many worthy ways (ie. cold weather). !

FTFY ;)

Canada should be applauded for showing the balls to declare Iran a terrorist state.
They've closed their embassy in Iran and have sent the Iranian ambassadors in Ottawa home.
Too bad Obama doesn't show the same type of leadership.

[ArlJim78]

now wouldn't this film segment be considered hurtful or inflammatory to Gaddifi supporters? Is this any way for a sec of state to comport herself?
Sounds pretty bloodthirsty to me, but I'm sure no one in Libya saw this or took insult at it. hey if you're going to play the big tough guy or gal, you better be prepared to suffer the consequences and at least give some marginal protection to your staff holed up in that dangerous area.
Why hasn't she resigned yet, or been fired?

rXIXU2phsko


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rXIXU2phsko

[PaceAdvantage]

now wouldn't this film segment be considered hurtful or inflammatory to Gaddifi supporters? Is this any way for a sec of state to comport herself?
Sounds pretty bloodthirsty to me, but I'm sure no one in Libya saw this or took insult at it. hey if you're going to play the big tough guy or gal, you better be prepared to suffer the consequences and at least give some marginal protection to your staff holed up in that dangerous area.
Why hasn't she resigned yet, or been fired?

rXIXU2phsko


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rXIXU2phskoImagine just for one tiny moment...one second if you will...what would have been the fallout if Bush and/or Cheney were filmed laughing it up and high-fiving each other over the death of Saddam Hussein?

Just imagine that...because that's EXACTLY what we see here in this video, and nobody in the media, and NOBODY ON THIS BOARD ever had a NEGATIVE PEEP to say about it....

Awful conduct for a Secretary of State.

[fast4522]

"Libya provided advanced warning before attack"

[Tom]

She is a disgrace to America.

[ArlJim78]

this is from Johnathon Turley (http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/15/turley-white-house-position-on-youtube-review-request-perfectly-incoherent/), he's a frequent guest on MSNBC and a pretty well respected law professor.


“The film was simply an act of free speech. The position of the
United States should be clear. Violence was not caused by any film,” said
Turley. “Free speech is not a characteristic of America. It defines being an
American.”

Turley added that the administration has done “unprecedented harm”
to principles of free speech.


I can't understand why the left isn't screaming bloody murder over the president requesting a video be taken off of youtube and the FBI rounding up someone who made a movie for questioning. where is Hollywood? shouldn't they be up in arms?

these are rhetorical questions of course, I long ago realized that the principles of those on the left are, how shall I say, situational?

[Tom]

They burned books in Germany in the 30s.
It is a common practice with governments who seek to stifle freedom and control the people.

[FantasticDan]

I can't understand why the left isn't screaming bloody murder over the president requesting a video be taken off of youtube and the FBI rounding up someone who made a movie for questioning.The WH only requested that Youtube review the film to determine if it violated their terms of use. They did not request it be taken down.

WH:

“We have made clear that we find it offensive and reprehensible and disgusting,” Carney told reporters at the daily White House news briefing. “We have denounced it. We have said we find it offensive and reprehensible, but we will not — you know, we cannot and will not squelch freedom of expression in this country.”

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Obama-hate show, already in progress. :sleeping:

[PaceAdvantage]

The WH only requested that Youtube review the film to determine if it violated their terms of use. They did not request it be taken down.Right... :lol:

How many other videos on there that are clearly violating copyright law have they requested to be reviewed...

Do you really buy into all that you type? That can't be possible.

[Ocala Mike]

... nobody in the media, and NOBODY ON THIS BOARD ever had a NEGATIVE PEEP to say about it....




Really? I guess Michael Savage doesn't count as anyone in the media. He's been playing that audio clip of her all week, and referring to her and some of her female cohorts as Valkyries. He's also been saying that Romney stole that "Arab spring to Arab winter" line from him.

Anyway, I agree that her actions in that tape were totally classless.

[PaceAdvantage]

Really? I guess Michael Savage doesn't count as anyone in the media. He's been playing that audio clip of her all week, and referring to her and some of her female cohorts as Valkyries. He's also been saying that Romney stole that "Arab spring to Arab winter" line from him.

Anyway, I agree that her actions in that tape were totally classless.That interview of H. Clinton in that video clip aired a LONG time ago, did it not? Right after Gadfly bit the dust I will assume.

I wasn't talking about this week or last...I was talking about when it first saw the light of day.

[Tom]

Do you really buy into all that you type? That can't be possible.

The recently renamed "Fantastic" Bridge..... :lol:

[FantasticDan]

How many other videos on there that are clearly violating copyright law have they requested to be reviewed... Do you really buy into all that you type? That can't be possible.Yeah, because this situation is obviously analogous to if someone is using Van Halen music without permission..

YT/Google states that sometimes they curtail access to videos based on local laws, or sensitive situations..

“At Google we have a bias in favor of people’s right to free expression in everything we do,” Ms. Whetstone wrote in Google’s 2007 policy. “But we also recognize that freedom of expression can’t be — and shouldn’t be — without some limits. The difficulty is in deciding where those boundaries are drawn. For a company like Google with services in more than 100 countries — all with different national laws and cultural norms — it’s a challenge we face many times every day.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/15/world/middleeast/google-wont-rethink-anti-islam-videos-status.html?_r=1&ref=technology&_moc.semityn.www

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, because this situation is obviously analogous to if someone is using Van Halen music without permission..So then just admit it and state they are trying to get it removed because they don't "approve" of it.

Don't try and hide behind some asinine copyright issue. Americans are sometimes clueless, but they're not THAT clueless. Anyone can see past this silly smokescreen.

[ArlJim78]

The WH only requested that Youtube review the film to determine if it violated their terms of use. They did not request it be taken down.

WH:

“We have made clear that we find it offensive and reprehensible and disgusting,” Carney told reporters at the daily White House news briefing. “We have denounced it. We have said we find it offensive and reprehensible, but we will not — you know, we cannot and will not squelch freedom of expression in this country.”

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Obama-hate show, already in progress. :sleeping:
oh boy you've really outdone yourself this time.
an angry mob demanded that something be done about that video or else more people would die, and the WH gladly did whatever they good to make it go away. thankfully youtube has not completely bailed out on the idea of free speech.

[FantasticDan]

Don't try and hide behind some asinine copyright issue. Americans are sometimes clueless, but they're not THAT clueless. Anyone can see past this silly smokescreen.Copyright? YT's terms of use extend beyond just that, there are other "rules" too, which is what was being questioned.

[PaceAdvantage]

Copyright? YT's terms of use extend beyond just that, there are other "rules" too, which is what was being questioned.What other technicality can they get it on?

It's not porn. It's not part of some criminal investigation. It's not defaming any living person. What possible rules could it be violating except for copyright (provided the movie's producers don't WANT whatever is on YouTube, on YouTube...and shouldn't THEY be the ones to decide this, NOT YOUTUBE)?

And why would the WH be concerned with anything that might violate YOUTUBE's policies?

Just call it like it actually is. The White House wants this video off YouTube because it offends Muslims.

Let's see if we can't find thousands of videos on YouTube that offend Christians and Jews. Not a peep from the White House. No directive from Obama to YouTube to see what YT policy any of those clips might violate.

Nope. And do you want to know why that is? I'll tell you. Christians and Jews aren't running around carving infidels up (while they are still alive) because they can't handle criticism of their religion. That's why.

But this administration obviously caves in that regard.

In effect, isn't Obama NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS? Isn't that something this country has never done?

Think about it. Radical Muslims commit acts of terror (slicing people's heads off while they are still alive or storming embassies and killing US citizens and an ambassador) because they take offense to something depicted about their religion, and the US caves into them by requesting this offensive material be "checked into" and hopefully removed from view. Or they tell a preacher in Florida what he should and shouldn't be doing to the Koran.

In effect, it is the government SUPPRESSING (or attempting to suppress) freedom of speech in this country, something that is GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Now I know, you'll come back and tell me they are only doing this for the safety of our troops and other interests in the area. You'll tell me how that Florida pastor is putting troop lives in danger by possibly burning a Koran.

I say the troops can handle themselves quite nicely, thank you. If we are that worried about the troops, if we are that worried about some old man in Florida burning a book, then our men and women in uniform shouldn't be over there in the first place.

Has all critical thinking gone down the toilet these days?

[Tom]

Let's see, they are going after Gallop because they don't like the poll results ( the REAL poll results, not the rigged stuff), they go after FOX becasue they don't like the truth.....seems Obama has a sever lack of balls.

What a pathetic like girl the president is.
A disgrace to manhood. Michelle is more of a man than he is.


Looks it, too! :eek:

[Hoofhearted]

The White House wants this video off YouTube because it offends Muslims.

And what is so terribly wrong with that ?
This damn film has caused mayhem and death across the world -- (this morning the protests have moved onto mainland Europe). This atrocious film being freely distributed has directly resulted in the death of a decent American diplomat and a couple of fine Marines.

The modern world is a tinderbox in an unstable state of flux particularly in the Middle East; we honestly don't need rubbish like this film to de-stabilize matters further.
What is needed in such a turbulent world as this is respect for other nationalities, creeds and races. A bit of common human decency and consideration.

You talk of "Freedom Of Speech" -- with that Freedom also comes responsibility about how you use it. Freedom of Speech becomes a sharp weapon when you use F.o.S. to incite hate, cast insults or offend other people's sensitivities. Making a film with the sole purpose of mocking an entire religion is borderline criminal, in-my-opinion.

Incidentally, your claim that only Christians and Jews are fair game for mockery just doesn't ring true to this poster's ears. For instance, in the country where I live, a similarly satirical film -- the well known "Life Of Brian" -- was banned because it was deemed to be offensive to Christians. And any derogatory reference to Jews in Europe generally and to a lesser extent in the U.S. is usually sufficient to invite a judicial prosecution. Don't fool yourself that it is only Muslims who object to being insulted or blasphemed.

[Tom]

Sudan has refused to allow our Marines in to protect our people there.
They will take care of security.

Right.


Sudan, Tunisia being evacuated....Obama's chickens have come home to roost.

[PaceAdvantage]

And what is so terribly wrong with that ?
This damn film has caused mayhem and death across the world -- (this morning the protests have moved onto mainland Europe). This atrocious film being freely distributed has directly resulted in the death of a decent American diplomat and a couple of fine Marines.

The modern world is a tinderbox in an unstable state of flux particularly in the Middle East; we honestly don't need rubbish like this film to de-stabilize matters further.
What is needed in such a turbulent world as this is respect for other nationalities, creeds and races. A bit of common human decency and consideration.

You talk of "Freedom Of Speech" -- with that Freedom also comes responsibility about how you use it. Freedom of Speech becomes a sharp weapon when you use F.o.S. to incite hate, cast insults or offend other people's sensitivities. Making a film with the sole purpose of mocking an entire religion is borderline criminal, in-my-opinion.

Incidentally, your claim that only Christians and Jews are fair game for mockery just doesn't ring true to this poster's ears. For instance, in the country where I live, a similarly satirical film -- the well known "Life Of Brian" -- was banned because it was deemed to be offensive to Christians. And any derogatory reference to Jews in Europe generally and to a lesser extent in the U.S. is usually sufficient to invite a judicial prosecution. Don't fool yourself that it is only Muslims who object to being insulted or blasphemed.Looks like your country has its work cut out for it...a quick glance around YouTube found me this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8roxM1k02g&playnext=1&list=PLEE765F18B664AD5B&feature=results_main WARNING...This video clip is NOT Safe For Work or Children's Ears (or anyone's ears for that matter, based on the music...lol)

That is but an example of the crude, foul, offensive-to-Christians stuff readily available on YouTube...over 800,000 views on that video in the link above, and not one peep from any US government official asking YouTube to see if it conforms to their policies...why? Because it's offensive to Christians, and that's cool with the US Government.

If that video were about Muslims and their particular brand of God, you can bet your bottom dollar someone would literally lose their head over it, it would make the news in a heartbeat, and Obama might be calling for it to be "reviewed."

So yes, there is something TERRIBLY WRONG when ONE religion is FAVORED by the US Government over all others. There is something TERRIBLY WRONG when the US Government springs into action to try and appease TERRORISTS who happen to be pissed off at some movie, cartoon, or Koran book burning.

There is absolutely NO ARGUMENT that can be made that will dissipate the huge hypocrisy going on right now regarding how offensive-to-Muslim material is treated by the US Gov't and how offensive-to-Christians/Jews material is treated by the US Gov't (here's a hint...the US Gov't has not a care in the world when it comes to material deemed offensive to Christians/Jews).

[ArlJim78]

Let's see, they are going after Gallop because they don't like the poll results ( the REAL poll results, not the rigged stuff), they go after FOX becasue they don't like the truth.....seems Obama has a sever lack of balls.

What a pathetic like girl the president is.
A disgrace to manhood. Michelle is more of a man than he is.


Looks it, too! :eek:
Gallup and Fox are only the tip of the iceberg, this thug regime has an enemies list and uses government agencies to threaten, intimdiate, sue companies or private citizens who speaks out against the regime. every decision has a political component to it from the auto dealership closures, to sending the IRS after Frank vandersloot, to Gibson guitars, to Sheldon Adelson. they publish names of privates citizens to be scorned by the media for daring to not fall in line.

[johnhannibalsmith]

And what is so terribly wrong with that ?
...

Among other things, even if the original intent of such a blasphemous abridgement of our rights were conceived with the noble intentions that you suggest, in this wonderful land it would become a simple tool of politics in short order. We have enough problems with people in this land being unfairly labeled and castigated as a matter of mere political convenience - and for literally no other reason - that if we attached punitive penalties to every cry of being offended, we'd have to end all of the wars on drugs, terror, crime, obesity... everything... just to focus on protecting the feelings of our selectively outraged citizens and punishing the "offenders".

[Hoofhearted]

Looks like your country has its work cut out for it...a quick glance around YouTube found me this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8roxM1k02g&playnext=1&list=PLEE765F18B664AD5B&feature=results_main WARNING...This video clip is NOT Safe For Work or Children's Ears (or anyone's ears for that matter, based on the music...lol)

That is but an example of the crude, foul, offensive-to-Christians stuff readily available on YouTube...over 800,000 views on that video in the link above, and not one peep from any US government official asking YouTube to see if it conforms to their policies...why? Because it's offensive to Christians, and that's cool with the US Government.

If that video were about Muslims and their particular brand of God, you can bet your bottom dollar someone would literally lose their head over it, it would make the news in a heartbeat, and Obama might be calling for it to be "reviewed."

So yes, there is something TERRIBLY WRONG when ONE religion is FAVORED by the US Government over all others. There is something TERRIBLY WRONG when the US Government springs into action to try and appease TERRORISTS who happen to be pissed off at some movie, cartoon, or Koran book burning.

There is absolutely NO ARGUMENT that can be made that will dissipate the huge hypocrisy going on right now regarding how offensive-to-Muslim material is treated by the US Gov't and how offensive-to-Christians/Jews material is treated by the US Gov't (here's a hint...the US Gov't has not a care in the world when it comes to material deemed offensive to Christians/Jews).

Oh dear, P.A., using a music clip from a band from the Black Metal genre to demonstrate anti-Christian video's isn't really going to work, now is it !
Why? Because there are also anti-Muslim Black Metal bands pouring out similar invective against ***** and **********, lol. Albums like "********" and "************"; songs like "************" etc etc.
For every Deicide and Gorgoroth anti-Christian music vid you put up, I can respond with a similar number of anti-Muslim examples. Of course, as well as anti-Muslim Youtube clips there are thousands of anti-Muslim websites.

But here's the thing .................
That Deicide clip you put up is reprehensible and is bound to be deeply offensive to Christians -- just as the equivalent anti-Muslim stuff is equally offensive to Muslims. In my perfect world there would be no room for any of this rubbish. All of this stuff only serves to create divisions between peoples and creeds.

For lovers of anti-Muslim Black Metal I offer you Taghut's "************":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwPGHOFVDHI

[Tom]

Has Obama asked YT to not show any videos of the American flag burning?
I find that offensive.

Would you guy understand if I went and stormed Achmed's house and dragges him out in to the street.

Would you guys blame ME of the videos of our flag burning.

Let me know by 11:30....... :rolleyes:

[Valuist]

We need Bush and Cheney doing some more bunker cowering. Now, THAT was strength. :lol:

Most of us live in 2012. What year are you stuck in, 2003?

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh dear, P.A., using a music clip from a band from the Black Metal genre to demonstrate anti-Christian video's isn't really going to work, now is it !
Why? Because there are also anti-Muslim Black Metal bands pouring out similar invective against ***** and **********, lol. Albums like "********" and "************"; songs like "************" etc etc.
For every Deicide and Gorgoroth anti-Christian music vid you put up, I can respond with a similar number of anti-Muslim examples. Of course, as well as anti-Muslim Youtube clips there are thousands of anti-Muslim websites.

But here's the thing .................
That Deicide clip you put up is reprehensible and is bound to be deeply offensive to Christians -- just as the equivalent anti-Muslim stuff is equally offensive to Muslims. In my perfect world there would be no room for any of this rubbish. All of this stuff only serves to create divisions between peoples and creeds.

For lovers of anti-Muslim Black Metal I offer you Taghut's "************":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwPGHOFVDHISorry I had to edit your post. Obama sent me a little note just a minute ago...

But I digress...

So what you're saying is, THIS PARTICULAR video (a video that is being (falsely) claimed to have been the inspiration behind recent acts of TERRORISM) IS THE REASON for this particular response from the Federal Government of the United States towards the video and its creator?

Well, that takes me back to the NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS angle. This administration is effectively negotiating with terrorists by looking for ways to punish this video and its creator.

Good to know terrorists have that kind of power over the Obama administration... :rolleyes:

[Jeff P]

US in denial over embassy murders:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/us-in-denial-over-embassy-murders/story-e6frgd0x-1226475186128

The day after the murderous assault on the US consulate in Benghazi, and in the face of an ongoing mob assault on the US embassy in Cairo, and on US embassies in Yemen and Tunis, General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff called pastor Terry Jones in Florida and asked him to withdraw his support for a film that depicts Mohammed negatively. Dempsey's belief that a third-rate riff on Mohammed supported by a marginal figure in Florida is the cause of the terrorist attacks on US embassies is not simply shocking. It is devastating.

It means that the senior officer in the US military is of the opinion that the party to blame for the assaults on US government installations overseas was an American pastor. To prevent the recurrence of such incidents, freedom of speech must be constrained.

A word about the much mentioned film about Mohammed is in order. The film apparently was released about a year ago. It received little notice until last month when a Salafi television station in Egypt broadcast it to incite anti-American violence. If the film had never been created, they would have found another - equally ridiculous - pretext. And here we come to the nature of the attacks against America that occurred on the 11th anniversary of the September 11 jihadist attacks.

A cursory consideration of the events that are still taking place makes clear these were not acts of spontaneous rage about an amateur internet movie. They were premeditated. In Egypt, the mob was led by Muhammad al-Zawahiri, the brother of al-Qa'ida chief Ayman al-Zawahiri.

The US's first official response to the assault on its embassy in Cairo came in the form of an embassy Twitter feed apologising to Muslims for the film.




-jp

.

[ElKabong]

Jeff P,

Thank you for the link and story.

One comment I have is, I would think Gen.Dempsey was only doing as ordered. It would be totally out of character for a military officer to take it upon himself to make such a call. This is the kind of thing that would only come about by diplomatic order, imo... (which doesn't reflect well on our leadership)

[Saratoga_Mike]

"It means that the senior officer in the US military is of the opinion that the party to blame for the assaults on US government installations overseas was an American pastor. To prevent the recurrence of such incidents, freedom of speech must be constrained."

Yeah, that's what it means. I guess it meant the same when David Patraeus made similar statements in 2010.

"According to Fox News, General David Petraeus has warned Florida pastor Terry Jones that his plan to burn Korans in commemoration of the lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001, could endanger U.S. troops serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. Petraeus' concerns about Jones and his church's activities stem from the fact that burning the Koran is a major offense to the Islamic community. He is very concerned that extremists in Afghanistan and around the world will use the burning of the Koran to incite violence. The burning of the Koran could also create more animosity between the Middle East and America."

[ElKabong]

Mike,

Do you think Patreaus made the call on his own choice? Or prompted by Hilary or Obama or some sort of team decision?

Reason I ask, think of a team in a security meeting on how to keep this rogue pastor from being more of a flamethrower than he's already been.......Some one would reasonably ask "how do we keep Jones in check"....to which conversation might lead to "who would he listen to among us?".......the answer would be a military leader perhaps. The other people in the room aren't exactly on Jones side, from Jones point of view.

I think using high ranking military brass to send these messages is a poor decision....It puts the General(s) on the hook for public ridicule and makes it look like we have rogues wearing Stars that do as they please. Maybe it's best to approach it in another manner

[Saratoga_Mike]

Mike,

Do you think Patreaus made the call on his own choice? Or prompted by Hilary or Obama or some sort of team decision?

Reason I ask, think of a team in a security meeting on how to keep this rogue pastor from being more of a flamethrower than he's already been.......Some one would reasonably ask "how do we keep Jones in check"....to which conversation might lead to "who would he listen to among us?".......the answer would be a military leader perhaps. The other people in the room aren't exactly on Jones side, from Jones point of view.

I think using high ranking military brass to send these messages is a poor decision....It puts the General(s) on the hook for public ridicule and makes it look like we have rogues wearing Stars that do as they please. Maybe it's best to approach it in another manner

I don't know, but I don't take issue with either statement. If I had the lives thousands of soldiers in my hands, I would want to do everything possible to help insure they get back home alive, including making what some might consider ineffective statements. Not everything that comes out of general's mouth has to be cowboy bravado.

[PaceAdvantage]

"It means that the senior officer in the US military is of the opinion that the party to blame for the assaults on US government installations overseas was an American pastor. To prevent the recurrence of such incidents, freedom of speech must be constrained."

Yeah, that's what it means. I guess it meant the same when David Patraeus made similar statements in 2010.

"According to Fox News, General David Petraeus has warned Florida pastor Terry Jones that his plan to burn Korans in commemoration of the lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001, could endanger U.S. troops serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. Petraeus' concerns about Jones and his church's activities stem from the fact that burning the Koran is a major offense to the Islamic community. He is very concerned that extremists in Afghanistan and around the world will use the burning of the Koran to incite violence. The burning of the Koran could also create more animosity between the Middle East and America."I have absolutely no problem with military personnel making these types of public statements or public outreaches. These generals have a sacred duty to protect the lives of the men and women underneath them at all costs. So whatever they feel they must do in that regard, then that's fine with me...I totally understand the thinking behind those moves.

What I do have a problem with is the Executive Branch of the US Government working with YouTube to try and suppress free speech just because said free speech pisses off a particular religion.

Is this hypocritical of me? Understanding and supporting the motives of these generals on the one hand, and criticizing the actions of the White House on another? In my mind, it's not. But I can completely understand if some or most on here feel otherwise.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I have absolutely no problem with military personnel making these types of public statements or public outreaches. These generals have a sacred duty to protect the lives of the men and women underneath them at all costs. So whatever they feel they must do in that regard, then that's fine with me...I totally understand the thinking behind those moves.

What I do have a problem with is the Executive Branch of the US Government working with YouTube to try and suppress free speech just because said free speech pisses off a particular religion.

Is this hypocritical of me? Understanding and supporting the motives of these generals on the one hand, and criticizing the actions of the White House on another? In my mind, it's not. But I can completely understand if some or most on here feel otherwise.

I don't really blame the govt for trying to get the video pulled,* but I think your positions outlined above are all reasonable.

*this doesn't mean I blame the movie maker more than the scum that killed the four Americans (I know you wouldn't draw that conclusion, but others may).

[ElKabong]

I don't know, but I don't take issue with either statement. If I had the lives thousands of soldiers in my hands, I would want to do everything possible to help insure they get back home alive, including making what some might consider ineffective statements. Not everything that comes out of general's mouth has to be cowboy bravado.

We're in agreement then. The message was the correct one to make.

What I don't like (and I'm probably in the minority) is having a General do the messaging. Aas you can see from Jeff's link we're being scorched for having a military man "having the opinion" as the article says.

General's (nor low ranking peons like i was) don't have the option of a public opinion. They serve at the request of their superiors. The danger here is, a free country's journalist has the view we have a General who picks up the phone and makes calls at will....doesn't work that way. That's what concerns me, it looks like our country has even less structure and discipline than it does.

As for Jeff's article, overall a very good opinion. I don't want my opinion of the messenger picked to distract from the honest view of how some think of our leadership woes, or the fact the film is a sideshow of what we're seeing in terms of the violence and uprisings

[Jeff P]

ABC News - Report: Reward for Rushdie's Death Boosted in Iran:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/report-iran-adds-reward-rushdies-death-17247292#.UFYlwq4SGt8

A semi-official religious foundation in Iran has increased a reward it had offered for the killing of British author Salman Rushdie to $3.3 million from $2.8 million, a newspaper reported, days after protests coursed through the Muslim world over alleged insults to the Prophet Muhammad.

Hardline Jomhoori Eslami daily and other newspapers reported on Sunday that the move appeared to be linked to protests over an amateurish anti-Islam film, which crowds in some 20 countries said drove them to defend their faith — in some cases by attacking American embassies.
Where do you draw the line? Are Rushdie's novels really so incendiary that he needs to be silenced? (Apparently, a bunch of people in Iran think so.)

For my money, above all else, I want every single one of our elected officials - from the President on down - doing everything in their power to DEFEND the rights afforded us by the Constitution.

What I DON'T want are elected officials curtailing those rights because our enemies want our voices silenced. The minute that happens that's the minute our enemies have beaten us.



-jp

.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... The minute that happens that's the minute our enemies have won.



-jp

.

This is it for me in a nutshell. Blowing up airplanes or buildings or killing this or that guy as some sort of jihad nonsense - that's some nasty stuff.

But that is just an element of a battle. When our reaction to those battles waged against us implores a fundamental change in our principals to limpishly and ineffectively avoid those battles (as though its plausible), then the loss is far greater than any battle - we're conceding the war.

[Hoofhearted]

As for Jeff's article, overall a very good opinion. I don't want my opinion of the messenger picked to distract from the honest view of how some think of our leadership woes,
No it isn't ( isn't a very good opinion).
It is a biased article with a particular agenda.
The Australian newspaper is another Rupert Murdoch-owned rag which slavishly follows the rightwing agenda of that arch-conservative billionaire.
The same Murdoch who a couple of years ago donated $1,000,000 to the Republican National Convention and who insidiously avails of every opportunity to denigrate the Democratic party and working-class interests whether by misleading reportage in his newspapers or by outright lies.

[Hoofhearted]

Well, that takes me back to the NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS angle. This administration is effectively negotiating with terrorists by looking for ways to punish this video and its creator.

Ah dude, please !
The current administration is trying to diffuse an already inflamed situation .................. trying to take things down a notch or two. Better this than exacerbate tensions which could easily run out of control. What you see as weakness is instead good diplomacy.
The world is right now on tenderhooks ( an unprecended armada of warships from 27 countries is already gathering in the Persian Gulf). Now is not the time for gung-ho Roger Ramjet heavy-handedness or shouting matches with the Arab "street". The fledgling governments of Libya and Egypt are trying their damn best to deal with an explosive situation -- any unmeasured words from the White House would only further fan the flames of an already volatile situation. Enough people have already died in the past few days.
The current Obama administration is handling the matter reponsibly and properly.

[ElKabong]

The same Murdoch who a couple of years ago donated $1,000,000 to the Republican National Convention and who insidiously avails of every opportunity to denigrate the Democratic party and working-class interests whether by misleading reportage in his newspapers or by outright lies.

Funny stuff , there. Rupert employs how many people worldwide, exactly? By way of employment he denigrates working class interests.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ah dude, please !
The current administration is trying to diffuse an already inflamed situation .................. trying to take things down a notch or two. Better this than exacerbate tensions which could easily run out of control. What you see as weakness is instead good diplomacy.
The world is right now on tenderhooks ( an unprecended armada of warships from 27 countries is already gathering in the Persian Gulf). Now is not the time for gung-ho Roger Ramjet heavy-handedness or shouting matches with the Arab "street". The fledgling governments of Libya and Egypt are trying their damn best to deal with an explosive situation -- any unmeasured words from the White House would only further fan the flames of an already volatile situation. Enough people have already died in the past few days.
The current Obama administration is handling the matter reponsibly and properly.You can't honestly believe this. Appeasement is what you're advocating. Appease the psychopaths, lest they go around killing more innocent people.

As long as they're crazy, GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT (which is no more insulting movies or cartoons)! That's your motto, apparently.

There is only one way to deal with psychopaths like radical Muslims. You take them out of the general population. You don't go looking to appease a psychopath.

[PaceAdvantage]

A 3M+ bounty on Rushdie's head because he wrote a BOOK. A freakin' book.

When will people begin to understand the depths of the psychosis the world is dealing with here?

[johnhannibalsmith]

A 3M+ bounty on Rushdie's head because he wrote a BOOK. A freakin' book.

When will people begin to understand the depths of the psychosis the world is dealing with here?

Yes, but can't you see that an appropriate, responsible, tension-relieving solution is to restrict the freedoms and liberties of citizens in this country?

I'm sure that forsaking our founding principals will "diffuse" all the trouble in Crazyville.

[ElKabong]

Among other things, even if the original intent of such a blasphemous abridgement of our rights were conceived with the noble intentions that you suggest, in this wonderful land it would become a simple tool of politics in short order. We have enough problems with people in this land being unfairly labeled and castigated as a matter of mere political convenience - and for literally no other reason - that if we attached punitive penalties to every cry of being offended, we'd have to end all of the wars on drugs, terror, crime, obesity... everything... just to focus on protecting the feelings of our selectively outraged citizens and punishing the "offenders".

.

[Tom]

Good question on Rush today...seeing how so many rioters are chanting about Osama and Obama, shouldn't Obama try to stop the release of the movie about the killing of Bin Laden?

[Mike at A+]

Good question on Rush today...seeing how so many rioters are chanting about Osama and Obama, shouldn't Obama try to stop the release of the movie about the killing of Bin Laden?
Excellent point, especially in light of the fact that a Batman movie was recently the scene of mass murder.

[ArlJim78]

oops, more evidence that our president, sec of state and UN ambassador are peddling lies to divert blame for the Libya attack to a film rather than their own policy failures. a guard wounded in the attack said there wasn't a single person there protesting when the attack happened.




The guard, interviewed Thursday in the hospital where he is being
treated for five shrapnel wounds in one leg and two bullet wounds in the other, said that the consulate area was quiet – “there wasn’t a single ant outside,” he said – until about 9:35 p.m., when as many as 125 armed men descended on the compound from all directions.
The men lobbed grenades into the compound, wounding the guard and
knocking him to the ground, then stormed through the facility’s main gate,
shouting “God is great” and moving to one of the many villas that make up the consulate compound. He said there had been no warning that an attack was imminent.

“Wouldn’t you expect if there were protesters outside that the


Americans would leave?”


http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/13/3814001/no-protest-before-benghazi-attack.html

[Saratoga_Mike]

Good question on Rush today...seeing how so many rioters are chanting about Osama and Obama, shouldn't Obama try to stop the release of the movie about the killing of Bin Laden?

That's actually a great point.

[ElKabong]

oops, more evidence that our president, sec of state and UN ambassador are peddling lies to divert blame for the Libya attack to a film rather than their own policy failures. a guard wounded in the attack said there wasn't a single person there protesting when the attack happened.





http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/13/3814001/no-protest-before-benghazi-attack.html

Something's brewing. This story (which isn't being run on media outlets I'm watching - for whatever reason) and add the 3 University's that had bomb threats since Friday....something's not right.

[Mike at A+]

That's actually a great point.
Wouldn't it be wild if the Tea Party organized a protest at this movie and stood outside with signs reading "STOP ANTAGONIZING MUSLIMS"?

[PaceAdvantage]

I wouldn't go near any movie theater showing that bin Laden movie...if I valued my life...which I do...

I guess the terrorists win this round, and least where I'm concerned...

[Mike at A+]

I wouldn't go near any movie theater showing that bin Laden movie...if I valued my life...which I do...

I guess the terrorists win this round, and least where I'm concerned...
I'm betting security may be tight because the last thing 0bama needs is a shoot up at his movie.

[mostpost]

I know you live in your own warped reality, but it's just annoying when you make shit up.. read the transcript of Hillary's remarks..

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/09/14/transcript-video-hillary-clinton-speaks-at-ceremony-as-bodies-of-americans-killed-in-libya-arrive-in-the-us/

There is no apology for anything.
You can't blame Tom. People tell him things and he believes them. He isn't clever enough to question them. Just like all the cons

[elysiantraveller]

You can't blame Tom. People tell him things and he believes them. He isn't clever enough to question them. Just like all the cons

Careful there Mosty.

I don't think I've ever seen you question a SINGLE thing this Administration as done. I know you are ganged up on by conservatives all the time on here but at least I've seen everyone of them break rank at some point... you on the other hand...

[mostpost]

FTFY ;)

Canada should be applauded for showing the balls to declare Iran a terrorist state.
They've closed their embassy in Iran and have sent the Iranian ambassadors in Ottawa home.
Too bad Obama doesn't show the same type of leadership.

Am I reading this right? Are you saying that Canada declared Iran a terrorist state, whereas the United States did not. We have been treating Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism since 1979. That is the same year we closed our embassy there and we have never reopened it. As recently as July of this year the state department reaffirmed Iran's status as a state sponsor of terrorism.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/195768.pdf
pps 171-173
Turns out it was 1984 that Iran officially became a state sponsor of terrorism.

[Greyfox]

Am I reading this right? Are you saying that Canada declared Iran a terrorist state, whereas the United States did not. We have been treating Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism since 1979. That is the same year we closed our embassy there and we have never reopened it. As recently as July of this year the state department reaffirmed Iran's status as a state sponsor of terrorism.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/195768.pdf
pps 171-173
Turns out it was 1984 that Iran officially became a state sponsor of terrorism.

I stand corrected.

Canada should still be applauded on it's stand against Iran. The recent closure of it's embassy is making a statement to the world.

Also, Canada's PM has said that an attack on Israel is an attack on Canada.

Obama won't even meet with Netanyahu when he's in the U.S. this month.

[mostpost]

Careful there Mosty.

I don't think I've ever seen you question a SINGLE thing this Administration as done. I know you are ganged up on by conservatives all the time on here but at least I've seen everyone of them break rank at some point... you on the other hand...

Tom said Hillary Clinton apologized to Muslims in her memorial speech for the victims of the Libyan violence. It turns out she did no such thing. Tom could have found this out and he did not bother to do so. Because he did not want to know.

As for this remark; I don't think I've ever seen you question a SINGLE thing this Administration as done.

I question many things the Obama administration has done or is doing. You just don't see it here because I am too busy refuting the bizarre claims made by the right on this board.

Admittedly most of my criticism of Obama consists of him not going far enough rather than doing something or not doing something.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Tom said Hillary Clinton apologized to Muslims in her memorial speech for the victims of the Libyan violence. It turns out she did no such thing. Tom could have found this out and he did not bother to do so. Because he did not want to know.

As for this remark;

I question many things the Obama administration has done or is doing. You just don't see it here because I am too busy refuting the bizarre claims made by the right on this board.

Admittedly most of my criticism of Obama consists of him not going far enough rather than doing something or not doing something.

Go ahead. We're listening.

[mostpost]

I stand corrected.

Canada should still be applauded on it's stand against Iran. The recent closure of it's embassy is making a statement to the world.

Also, Canada's PM has said that an attack on Israel is an attack on Canada.

Obama won't even meet with Netanyahu when he's in the U.S. this month.

Why does he have to meet with Netanyahu? Is the President of the United States to be at the beck and call of any foreign leader. Was there something of import that they had to discuss that they have not discussed many times before.

It's fine that Israel requested the meeting, but Obama was under no obligation to comply.

[Tom]

Tom said Hillary Clinton apologized to Muslims in her memorial speech for the victims of the Libyan violence. It turns out she did no such thing. Tom could have found this out and he did not bother to do so. Because he did not want to know.

Yes, she did. I heard it, I googled it, I read it.

Jay Trotter made a comment over the weekend about Obama showing respect or something like that to lesser nations, lifting them up.....but here we have the Libyan PM, soldiers in the area, and eye witnesses all saying the same thing - it was NOT the film it was a planned, coordinated attack, but we are calling them liars. I am sure the view from the set of Letterman is nowhere near as good as being there and watching it unfold in person.

The new PM of Libya is well know around here - he taught at RIT locally and is a well respected figure in the area. Not exactly a liar, like Obama has been PROVEN to be. I think what HE says is worth listening to.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120913/NEWS01/309130029/Mustafa-Abushagur-Libya-RIT?odyssey=nav%7Chead

Abushagur became deputy prime minister in November 2011. He founded RIT Dubai in 2008, and taught engineering on RIT’s Henrietta campus from 2002-2008 while living in Brighton.

His former colleagues at RIT said Abushagur has the temperament and resolve to tackle Libya’s problems. They described him as a quiet but strong presence, a leader who carefully listens to every side of an argument before making a decision.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The new PM of Libya is well know around here - he taught at RIT locally and is a well respected figure in the area. Not exactly a liar, like Obama has been PROVEN to be. I think what HE says is worth listening to.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120913/NEWS01/309130029/Mustafa-Abushagur-Libya-RIT?odyssey=nav%7Chead

So you put more trust in the leader of Libya than Obama? Wow. You do realize many radical terrorists (not saying this about the leader Libya, just making a point) were educated in the US? Once again, you're making extreme statements without thinking. You're a smart guy. You need to be less implusive.

[Tom]

Read my whole post - not only him.
Of course Obama and Hillary are lying to cover the own asses.
What advantage would it be to admit to terrorism over radicalism anyways?
Yes, I believe this guy over Obama and all the others who are saying the same thing. They have arrested 50 people so far, and other sources have said Al Qeda leaders and family were filming the attack. Hardly spontaneous.

I submit that we are 16 trillion in debt and going downhill fast thanks to all those who believed what Obama had to say. Hardly an impulsive statement - after 4 years of failure after failure after lie after lie. And need I even mention Hillary?

Besides, this PM in Libya had something Obama never had before....a JOB!

So you put more trust in the leader of Libya than Obama? Wow. You do realize many radical terrorists (not saying this about the leader Libya, just making a point) were educated in the US?

We know far more about this guy than we do Obama - this guy is not afraid to have his college records open. Do we even know for sure Obama was educated i the US? I'll trust the guy who is not hiding something.

[ElKabong]

So you put more trust in the leader of Libya than Obama? Wow. You do realize many radical terrorists (not saying this about the leader Libya, just making a point) were educated in the US? Once again, you're making extreme statements without thinking. You're a smart guy. You need to be less implusive.

Trust, as in this instance?......Having seen the clip, the humbled and almost embarrased tone of their PM on camera, yes I do believe his claim. Why is that difficult?

This administration has danced around the truth, trying to hang this entirely on the film. Turns out that wasn't true, right? Well, in this particular instance their PM was more truthful on a subject.

[Saratoga_Mike]

1) We know far more about this guy than we do Obama - this guy is not afraid to have his college records open. 2) Do we even know for sure Obama was educated i the US? I'll trust the guy who is not hiding something.


1) Bullshit - you know the school he attended. Period. Do you know what he's done for the last 20 yrs?

2) Yes.

Again, you're a smart guy, but you've gone off the deep end.

[ElKabong]

Why does he have to meet with Netanyahu? Is the President of the United States to be at the beck and call of any foreign leader. Was there something of import that they had to discuss that they have not discussed many times before.

It's fine that Israel requested the meeting, but Obama was under no obligation to comply.

a-r-r-o-g-a-n-c-e. WOW

A need to this time, under these circumstances? Yes. This doesn't require deep thought. The only reason he denied the meeting is Obama isn't fully behind our once ally...That's becoming clear. Also clear is that if Obama changes his mind it's b/c his advisors put the screws to him.

BREAKING NEWS: 9 dead in Kabul Afghanistan from a suicide bombing. Bedtime for Obama.

[ElKabong]

1) Bullshit - you know the school he attended. Period. Do you know what he's done for the last 20 yrs?

2) Yes.

Again, you're a smart guy, but you've gone off the deep end.

S-Mike,

It appears you want to argue (i don't) and I know your post was intended for someone else, but I do have a question before you yourself goes off that deep end.......Did you see the interview clip on the news with that PM? Yes, or no?

Thank you

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why does he have to meet with Netanyahu? Is the President of the United States to be at the beck and call of any foreign leader. Was there something of import that they had to discuss that they have not discussed many times before.

It's fine that Israel requested the meeting, but Obama was under no obligation to comply.

I don't think you've ever made more sense. If it were another leader making the request (ahh, demand) and Obama agreed, every nut on this board would be calling him weak. Of course you're a nut, too, just a left-wing one!

[Saratoga_Mike]

S-Mike,

It appears you want to argue (i don't) and I know your post was intended for someone else, but I do have a question before you yourself goes off that deep end.......Did you see the interview clip on the news with that PM? Yes, or no?

Thank you

Elkabong,

You're the one who resorts to ad hominem attacks (e.g., get back to working in the call center), so please spare me the self-righteous attitude. I'm conversing with Tom mainly here, not you.

[ElKabong]

Elkabong,

You're the one who resorts to ad hominem attacks (e.g., get back to working in the call center), so please spare me the self-righteous attitude. I'm conversing with Tom mainly here, not you.

You want to reply to my question, or complain? I'm serious, did you watch the clip?

[Saratoga_Mike]

You want to reply to my question, or complain? I'm serious, did you watch the clip?

Yes. He ran the Dubai campus for a short time, etc, etc, right? So? The president or was it dean of RIT likes him? So? What's the background of the president of RIT? Seriously? I don't know? Do you know him to have great judgment? Maybe he does.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think you've ever made more sense. If it were another leader making the request (ahh, demand) and Obama agreed, every nut on this board would be calling him weak. Of course you're a nut, too, just a left-wing one!Yes, everyone who doesn't fall lock-step in line with Dear Leader is a nut...I get it now...

Happy to be a nut am I.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yes, everyone who doesn't fall lock-step in line with Dear Leader is a nut...I get it now...

Happy to be a nut am I.

Yes, that's what I said. Wow - strong debating skills.

[ElKabong]

Yes. He ran the Dubai campus for a short time, etc, etc, right? So? The president or was it dean of RIT likes him? So? What's the background of the president of RIT? Seriously? I don't know? Do you know him to have great judgment? Maybe he does.

Please, control yourself. I asked if you watched the clip. If you did, you'd know his answer was given in a painful manner. He said the attack was organized. From reports revealed today & earlier, how can anyone deny that with a straight face?

As to his career at RTI, I don't know, don't care....I was speaking of the interview clip

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, that's what I said. Wow - strong debating skills.Who said we were debating? What is the question/topic that we are debating?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Who said we were debating? What is the question/topic that we are debating?

Are you for real?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Source: rit.edu

William Destler comes from a family of “humanists”—including his wife, Rebecca Johnson, who holds a Ph.D. in psychology, and his father, who was a historian, along with other family members who pursued math and the humanities.

His professional interest leads the self-described black sheep to joke, “I’m the only person I know who rebelled against his family by going into engineering.”

The couple has two sons, a computer science and theater major at the University of Maryland; and a senior in high school.

Destler wasn’t drawn to RIT only by the university’s growing reputation, its eclectic mix of well-regarded programs and unique niches, its first-place men’s hockey team, or the Rochester area’s third snowiest February ever. He was also attracted by Bernunzio Vintage Instruments, on East Avenue, which Destler describes as one of the finest antique banjo shops.

He's a humanist and likes banjos - I'm still undecided on his opinion.

[PaceAdvantage]

Are you for real?No, I'm a figment of your suddenly and vigorously renewed posting imagination...

Once again, between me and you, what are we debating? I was simply responding to what you wrote to mostpost. I didn't realize you and I were debating anything.

[ElKabong]

Source: rit.edu

[B]

He's a humanist and likes banjos - I'm still undecided on his opinion.

Again, his career at RTI has nothing to do with his interview - the one where he meekly admitted the attack was pre-planned.

So in that regard, in this particular instance, the PM was more honest in his claim than this administration. Do you disagree?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Interview with Destler when he was Maryland...

http://www.physics.umd.edu/announcements/destler.html

[Saratoga_Mike]

No, I'm a figment of your suddenly and vigorously renewed posting imagination...

Once again, between me and you, what are we debating? I was simply responding to what you wrote to mostpost. I didn't realize you and I were debating anything.

Stop being disingenious; you don't pull it off well (that's good - it's a sign of honesty). I know you too well (and vice versa).

[Saratoga_Mike]

Again, his career at RTI has nothing to do with his interview - the one where he meekly admitted the attack was pre-planned.

So in that regard, in this particular instance, the PM was more honest in his claim than this administration. Do you disagree?

Why the new-found interest in someone you've described as an idiot who works in a call center? Why do you care what I think about anything?

[ElKabong]

Why the new-found interest in someone you've described as an idiot who works in a call center? Why do you care what I think about anything?

Hell, forget it. I thought you might be interested in discussing the issue of the PM's interview. You're just looking to vent.

When you have a point you can discuss let me know

[PaceAdvantage]

Stop being disingenious; you don't pull it off well (that's good - it's a sign of honesty). I know you too well (and vice versa).I honestly have no idea what your point is in all this...I'm going to assume you're having an off night and leave it at that...

[Saratoga_Mike]

I honestly have no idea what your point is in all this...I'm going to assume you're having an off night and leave it at that...

I've tired of this.

You're correct about one thing: I've been posting too much lately (inference from your prior statement). I'll see you election eve. I'm voting for Romney and donating money to Romney and Scott Brown (Warren is a nut...there I go with that nut term again). I hope you do the same, even though I think Romney's a lost cause (love to be wrong on that).

If Obama has to win, at least BM will be gone. I assume he will leave the day after the election. As much as he and I have disagreed on things, I assume he will keep his word.

Until early Nov, good luck with all your wagers.

[mostpost]

a-r-r-o-g-a-n-c-e. WOW

A need to this time, under these circumstances? Yes. This doesn't require deep thought. The only reason he denied the meeting is Obama isn't fully behind our once ally...That's becoming clear. Also clear is that if Obama changes his mind it's b/c his advisors put the screws to him.

BREAKING NEWS: 9 dead in Kabul Afghanistan from a suicide bombing. Bedtime for Obama.

A table for you to contemplate.
Appendix B. Bilateral Aid to Israel
Table B-1 shows cumulative U.S. aid to Israel for FY1949 through FY1996, and U.S. aid to
Israel for each fiscal year since. Detail for the years 1949-1996 is shown in Table B-2.
Table B-1. Recent U.S. Bilateral Aid to Israel
(millions of dollars)
Year Total
Military
Grant
Economic
Grant
Immig.
Grant ASHA All other

1997 3,132.1
1998 3,080.0
1999 3,010.0
2000 4,131.85
2001 2,876.05
2002 2,850.65
2003 3,745.15
2004 2,687.25
2005 2,612.15
2006 2,534.5
2007 2,503.15
2008 2,423.9
2009 2,583.9
2010 2,803.8
2011 3,029.22
2012 3,095.0
2013 3,115.0

That is the abridged version. The first column is the year.
The second column is the total US aid to Israel (In millions of dollars)

It does indeed show a US drop in aid to Israel.
In 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006,2007 and 2008. US aid has increased every year since 2009. With enemies like Obama, who needs friends? With friends like Bush.........

Here is the link to the report containing the full table above:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
Appendix B on page 30.

The whole canard about Obama not supporting Israel is nonsense. Obama does not have to agree with every policy decision Netanyahu proposes. In fact, it would probably be better for Israel if he did not.

[ElKabong]

Looks like Obama is playing both sides, isn't he?

Now let's get back to why he won't meet with Netanyahu, shall we??

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm#top-recipient-countries

From the link.....

One-third of ALL US AID goes to Israel and Egypt.

These 2 countries
receive one-third of
the total aid,
the majority of which
pays for armaments.
Yet, neither is a
"developing" country.

[PaceAdvantage]

I've tired of this.

You're correct about one thing: I've been posting too much lately (inference from your prior statement). I'll see you election eve. I'm voting for Romney and donating money to Romney and Scott Brown (Warren is a nut...there I go with that nut term again). I hope you do the same, even though I think Romney's a lost cause (love to be wrong on that).

If Obama has to win, at least BM will be gone. I assume he will leave the day after the election. As much as he and I have disagreed on things, I assume he will keep his word.

Until early Nov, good luck with all your wagers.Do you realize how ****ing ridiculous you sound? You, BM and Dahoss...all of you are nuts in my opinion...

I know children who act more adult than you guys... :bang:

[hcap]

I've tired of this.

You're correct about one thing: I've been posting too much lately (inference from your prior statement). I'll see you election eve. I'm voting for Romney and donating money to Romney and Scott Brown (Warren is a nut...there I go with that nut term again). I hope you do the same, even though I think Romney's a lost cause (love to be wrong on that).

If Obama has to win, at least BM will be gone. I assume he will leave the day after the election. As much as he and I have disagreed on things, I assume he will keep his word.

Until early Nov, good luck with all your wagers.I disagree with you 75% of the time, but you are a rational poster unlike some others I disagree with. Don't let 'em get you down. I would suggest sticking around. The fun is only beginning. Especially when BM deems it safe to venture back into the fray. I don't think he can resist much longer, and he ain't going if Obama wins.

Meanwhile I intend to discuss with Mr Perfect the major division between Catholics and Protestants and how the Holy Spirit decides which division deserves proper guidance.

[Tom]

1) Bullshit - you know the school he attended. Period. Do you know what he's done for the last 20 yrs?

2) Yes.

Again, you're a smart guy, but you've gone off the deep end.

No, it is YOU who are making no sense. Sorry.
I remember when a lot of the left here believes Sadam Hussein over Bush when Bush said he still had WMD.....I don't remember you complaining then.

As far as Obama, what did he do/write at that college?
Why is it sealed?

Again, sorry, but I do not believe Obama - he is a proven liar running a campaign that would be soiled with an Al Qeda attack, especially when he was warned about it ahead of time and did nothing.

[Tom]

Our only ally in the ME wants to meet and mostie find fault with that?
The ME is exploding, Americans are dying, Israel has been threatened with obliteration, Iran may be months away from getting a nuke, and mostie thinks it is ridiculous to want a meeting and stand up Dave Letterman.

And S Mike agree with him.


Is there a full moon?

[Dahoss9698]

Do you realize how ****ing ridiculous you sound? You, BM and Dahoss...all of you are nuts in my opinion...

I know children who act more adult than you guys... :bang:

Does he sound as ridiculous as you did when you tried to pretend this is a horse racing board first?

Aside from a few of the real dim bulbs here, who do you think you were fooling with that nonsense?

[PaceAdvantage]

Does he sound as ridiculous as you did when you tried to pretend this is a horse racing board first?

Aside from a few of the real dim bulbs here, who do you think you were fooling with that nonsense? Just telling it like it is, my nutty little child.

Go make some more asinine fake bets over the election with the loser having to leave the board...how utterly ridiculous and childish...

[Dahoss9698]

Go make some more asinine fake bets over the election with the loser having to leave the board...how utterly ridiculous and childish...

Only if you promise to make an absolute ass out of yourself all over your political board pretending to be a horse racing board again, like you did yesterday.

Deal?

[PaceAdvantage]

Only if you promise to make an absolute ass out of yourself all over your political board pretending to be a horse racing board again, like you did yesterday.

Deal?Whatever you say Dahoss...why are you still here exactly? Aren't there any "real" racing boards to hang out at anymore?

[Dahoss9698]

Whatever you say Dahoss...why are you still here exactly? Aren't there any "real" racing boards to hang out at anymore?

Just telling it like it is.

[PaceAdvantage]

Just telling it like it is.I count about 630,000 posts in the racing section (NOT including selections), with only about 380,000 in off topic (counting all of off-topic)...

810,000 if you count selections...

[rastajenk]

How many more pages are you two going to waste by still going at it?

[PaceAdvantage]

How many more pages are you two going to waste by still going at it?I'm done for now.

[Dahoss9698]

I count about 630,000 posts in the racing section (NOT including selections), with only about 380,000 in off topic (counting all of off-topic)...

810,000 if you count selections...

I'd be curious to see the breakdown in the last year or so.

[rastajenk]

I'm done for now.But Hoss ain't! :p

[Tom]

Racing is out in front, but OT is closing like a tremendous machine! :D

[PaceAdvantage]

I'd be curious to see the breakdown in the last year or so.Comparing the most popular racing sections (General Racing + General Handicapping) with the most popular off topic political section (Off-Topic), there have been 102 pages of threads in racing and 76 pages of threads in off topic during the last 12 months.

[Dahoss9698]

Comparing the most popular racing sections (General Racing + General Handicapping) with the most popular off topic political section (Off-Topic), there have been 102 pages of threads in racing and 76 pages of threads in off topic during the last 12 months.

How many posts?

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'd like to know what the point of this argument is.

Is there some conspiracy to use the eye-catchingly fashionable horse racing motif to drag people into a clandestine political forum?

Every time I sit at the track or an OTB, the only thing people want to talk about other than racing are other sports and politically laced topics. What exactly is the problem with certain people spending more time talking politics than horses, especially with an election on the horizon?

[Dahoss9698]

I'd like to know what the point of this argument is.

Is there some conspiracy to use the eye-catchingly fashionable horse racing motif to drag people into a clandestine political forum?

Every time I sit at the track or an OTB, the only thing people want to talk about other than racing are other sports and politically laced topics. What exactly is the problem with certain people spending more time talking politics than horses, especially with an election on the horizon?

I'd answer you, but Rastajenk has already expressed his displeasure with this discussion and I don't want to get him upset.

[PaceAdvantage]

How many posts?I don't know a way to easily get that info from where I am right now (if you do, go right ahead). I would use the search engine, but that only returns 500 posts max at any time, so I can't get a count that way.

I would have to create a custom SQL query, and I'm not much of an SQL programmer...it would be something that would take me a little time to figure out.

Off topic does have some very large threads, so I wouldn't be surprised if the number of posts are closer than the number of threads between the two.

Anyway, now I'm officially finished with this tangent. You may have the last word.

[Dahoss9698]

I don't know a way to easily get that info from where I am right now (if you do, go right ahead). I would use the search engine, but that only returns 500 posts max at any time, so I can't get a count that way.

I would have to create a custom SQL query, and I'm not much of an SQL programmer...it would be something that would take me a little time to figure out.

Off topic does have some very large threads, so I wouldn't be surprised if the number of posts are closer than the number of threads between the two.

It doesn't really matter. Was just curious. No need to waste anymore time on this.

[Dahoss9698]

I'd like to know what the point of this argument is.

Is there some conspiracy to use the eye-catchingly fashionable horse racing motif to drag people into a clandestine political forum?

Every time I sit at the track or an OTB, the only thing people want to talk about other than racing are other sports and politically laced topics. What exactly is the problem with certain people spending more time talking politics than horses, especially with an election on the horizon?

Here's my point, which will probably offend some, but whatever.

The racing side of the board is very stale. There is very little discussion about races. Everyone's attention is focused down here.

I know there are some bright people in regards to horse racing that spend a majority of their time having the same argument over and over again in off topic. You're a prime example. You almost never talk racing. It just kind of confuses me.

There is no problem with it. Post wherever you want. But I think your (and others) knowledge would be appreciated in other areas.

[rastajenk]

Rastas don't get upset. :cool:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Here's my point, which will probably offend some, but whatever.

The racing side of the board is very stale. There is very little discussion about races. Everyone's attention is focused down here.

I know there are some bright people in regards to horse racing that spend a majority of their time having the same argument over and over again in off topic. You're a prime example. You almost never talk racing. It just kind of confuses me.

There is no problem with it. Post wherever you want. But I think your (and others) knowledge would be appreciated in other areas.

I understand - but quite honestly, racing can be stale as a topic for me lately, and I think for others also. I mean, there's almost nothing happening other than top horses falling by the wayside and those people that notice something amiss with a ride or a tote calculation or a steward's decision, etc, etc...

I posted quite a bit more in the racing sections in year's past. This forum was a great release for me as one in which you had a broad sampling of people from fellow horsemen to fellow fans to fellow gamblers to fellow administrators/officials - and people that weren't really curtailed from expressing themselves openly, including those (ahem) that are willing to challenge the perspectives of others.

But what slowed my activity up top are two or seven things:

1) Nothing seems to change in the industry to my satisfaction. Unlike political bantering, most of it isn't even theoretical which leaves a lot of room to speculate and pontificate - it is mechanical - the same damn protocol day in and day out and you get the sense after time that you are banging your head against the wall in advocating for this or that or pretty much anything. It may sound nice and you may even get a few supporters, but after a while, it just starts to sound like endless ranting and complaining, because there isn't an appropriate audience taking notice. Yah, sounds like off-topic, but for whatever reason, pointless arguments about politics and crap is sort of the whole point of arguing about politics. I mean, I actually expect the racing industry to try and do something. Amazingly, I'm an idealist on that hand, yet a complete cynic in the off-topic department.

2) I'm not a huge fan of "superstar" horses and big races or big days (I mean that in the literal sense, not like I simply don't enjoy it). I like to follow one or two circuits that I tend to have some stake in and tend to get engrossed in the day-to-day nonsense in those places and only really give cursory attention to more mainstream topics. When I have interjected from time to time - I think back to debates about Rachel's status - and I have people from outside the forum or media telling me certain things that add something, I'm in an uncomfortable position of wanting to contribute, but then I'm (perhaps rightfully) challenged on that perspective and I can't really substantiate my thoughts without causing other problems.

3) Along those lines, I'm often considered part of the problem, in the general sense, by many of the people here. By that I mean, whether donning my "horseman hat" or "official hat", I have this instant loss of credibility unless my opinion directly parallels that of the "customer" or is just a straightforward answer to a direct question. Now, more often than not, because my background is as one of those customers, my opinions do parallel those opinions shared here. But then, what is the point of joining in the pile-on on any given subject?

I'm not really making my points very well, but I'm trying to give you an answer. There are many times when I see someone post some ridiculous assertion that from the "inside" just infuriates me to read - usually a stereotype about racing or some conspiratorial rubbish - but there just comes a point when it becomes tedious to even reply and know that a segment of the people won't even consider your perspective, but instead be combatative because "you are one of them".

I just don't get excited to opine about Trakus or Zenyatta's baby's name or whether Beyer's figures are too high or too low. Those just aren't the things that get me interested. And lately, the things that do get me interested just seem like more effort than it's worth to get ensnared in. Part of the problem is that you do end up with certain people that want to jump your shit just to do it and there's just no way to select your words carefully enough and still make the point without ending up in a neverending roundabout that is predicated more on the people posting than on the topic itself.

...


Now, down here in the basement... yeah, not much is all that different. But I feel a genuine comradrie in discussing some of this crap with people like NJStinks, Tom, mostpost, ArlJim, Goren, Boxcar, and yeah, even BigMack, PaceAdvantage, and you when you venture down here - among everyone else. People genuinely bring some unique perspectives from time to time, even if the teams are fairly distinct. And I really enjoy reading the banter from everyone - I posted that "Cheers" clip in whatever thread for that reason - I'm not ashamed to admit that when I see something in the news, I actually look forward to hearing what Tom or SteveR or 46Zilzal will have to say about it. I do also enjoy those same perspectives on the horse racing end of things, but I guess I find myself with more interest in many of the recycled topics posted here these days than I do in the recycled topics in the racing forums. I mean, this place can actually take stale topics and make them entertaining ocassionally.

So yeah, at this point, I probably spend more time in off-topic. But mainly because of the people and the liveliness of the debate that surrounds daily activities. My life still revolves around racing, but honestly, not quite to the extreme that it has in the past. And I think that many others here are in the same boat. But we still sort of enjoy one another and when you've run out of things to bicker over in the racing world, I guess the rest of the world suffices for many of us.

I feel like I should throw in some italics, bold, and a reference to scripture this is such a long, drawn out mess of an answer to a simple question.

[Tom]

How 'bout the Zenyatta!
Best horse ever looked through a bridle, you can take that to the bank!



:rolleyes:

[johnhannibalsmith]

I guess I should note that the answer to the question:

"Why don't you just talk politics with the people around you every day away from the computer instead of with people on a racing forum?"

A) Most of the people I'm around away from a horse forum are horse people. And honestly, very few of them ever have an insightful political perspective, if they even care enough to have a perspective.

B) Those that do, whether horse folk or not, are rarely as candid and direct as those that are pseudo-anonymous. I'm not one of those people that bemoans the anonymity of the internet. For the most part, I think it's great. It's one of the last ways people feel comfortable thinking honestly and presenting ideas that would otherwise be challenging to present openly.

C) I think a lot of the people here are pretty smart, sharp, and make me laugh my ass off. You are one of those. So are a number of others. I won't make excuses for enjoying the company of the characters in this cast.

[Dahoss9698]

I feel like I should throw in some italics, bold, and a reference to scripture this is such a long, drawn out mess of an answer to a simple question.

You're one of the only people that can type that much and I'll read it. Good stuff and I agree (reluctantly) with a lot of what you said.

I didn't ask you to make excuses for anything. There's no reason to. I was curious and knew at least you would give me an honest answer.

[Valuist]

Here's my point, which will probably offend some, but whatever.

The racing side of the board is very stale. There is very little discussion about races. Everyone's attention is focused down here.

I know there are some bright people in regards to horse racing that spend a majority of their time having the same argument over and over again in off topic. You're a prime example. You almost never talk racing. It just kind of confuses me.

There is no problem with it. Post wherever you want. But I think your (and others) knowledge would be appreciated in other areas.

Here, and to a lesser extent, the Sports board. But I can't disagree with your assertion on the racing/handicapping board.

[PaceAdvantage]

Part of the problem is that you do end up with certain people that want to jump your shit just to do it and there's just no way to select your words carefully enough and still make the point without ending up in a neverending roundabout that is predicated more on the people posting than on the topic itself.This little gem can't be stressed enough, and it is entirely my fault why this kind of thing is allowed to happen.

[johnhannibalsmith]

This little gem can't be stressed enough, and it is entirely my fault why this kind of thing is allowed to happen.

I don't fault you for it, in a way I commend you for it. You have a very open forum with a few important ground rules that are rooted in solid legal ground for your own protection. It's just human nature and it's up to us to persevere in spite of that stuff if it is a point worth making or a statement worth defending. I can't have it both ways - wanting the openness and enjoying the anonymity that allows for free expression - then being a bitch when it makes it tough to speak openly. There are repercussions to being open in your thoughts, even when mostly anonymous, and often that scenario which you quoted is the only healthy way to ensure that pushback.

[thaskalos]

This little gem can't be stressed enough, and it is entirely my fault why this kind of thing is allowed to happen.

There is not much that you can do, IMO...because the whole point of an online forum is to attract a crowd, and to hold their interest. You have to provide what people are most interested in...and it just so happens that they seem to not be interested in racing-related stuff anymore.

I can't say that I blame them...

My OWN interest in this game has waned -- which is something I never thought I would say -- which explains why I find myself in the off topic forum more and more lately.

It's unfortunate that we have the hostility that we do here...but I doubt that this can be helped either.

Horseplayers are highly opinionated by nature...and opinions often clash.

A referee perhaps? :)

[Show Me the Wire]

Let me paraprhase Ellysiantraveller when you post in the horse racing section absolutionists run rough-shod over others. Also, it seems some posters want to hold grudges over a discussion about racing.

In the off-topic are I expect such, but not in the racing section.

BTW PA thanks for the iggy option.

[ArlJim78]

Romneys foreign policy "gaffes" have taken a toll...

on Obamas approval numbers.

Obama Approval on Foreign Policy Drops (http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/18/13944296-nbcwsj-poll-obamas-approval-on-foreign-policy-drops?ocid=twitter)



Still, in the current NBC/WSJ poll, only 41
percent of independents approve of Obama's foreign-policy handling, versus 53
percent who did so last month.

[Tom]

So you put more trust in the leader of Libya than Obama? Wow. You do realize many radical terrorists (not saying this about the leader Libya, just making a point) were educated in the US? Once again, you're making extreme statements without thinking. You're a smart guy. You need to be less implusive.

Well, well, well.......maybe not so extreme after all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/libya-attack-us-consulate-terrorist-attack-benghazi_n_1897428.html

WASHINGTON, Sept 19 (Reuters) - The assault on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi last week in which four Americans died was a "terrorist attack" that may have had an al Qaeda connection, a top U.S. counterterrorism official told Congress on Wednesday

[ElKabong]

Well, well, well.......maybe not so extreme after all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/libya-attack-us-consulate-terrorist-attack-benghazi_n_1897428.html

Maybe someone can clue in Susan Rice and ConCarney. Susan is confused over whether the Libya attack happened first, but she's cock sure that the attacks were over the film. ConCarney is buying that line too :cool:

[rastajenk]

Eventually a JournoList email will be revealed revealing how the players are getting their story straight. These people who are supposed to be so modern and tech savvy etc haven't learned that there are trails and traces everywhere. You watch.

Not that that gets us any kind of true account.

[Tom]

Maybe someone can clue in Susan Rice and ConCarney. Susan is confused over whether the Libya attack happened first, but she's cock sure that the attacks were over the film. ConCarney is buying that line too :cool:

Carney is professional liar.
The profession idiot part is a bonus.

How can that man look in a mirror?
Some people have no integrity or ethics at all.
Most of them are in Obama's administration.

[ArlJim78]

In case anyone didn't already know that the regime tells blatant lies to cover up their own culpability.
The most transparent administration ever. Never trust a third rate dictator over the president of Libya.
__________________________________________________ _____________

CBS reports (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-never-anti-american-protest-benghazi-only-planned-attack_652761.html) this morning that witnesses are saying "that there was never an anti-American protest outside of the consulate [in Benghazi, Libya]. Instead, they say, it came under planned attack. That is in direct contradiction to the administration's account of the incident."

"What's clear," the CBS reporter concludes, "is that the public won't get a detailed account of what happened until after the election."

[Tom]

I've heard they have video that shows the armed attackers there an no protest going on.

[ArlJim78]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOciohyXoM&feature=youtu.be

hUOciohyXoM

denial commerials running in Pakistan, Hillary declaring that the US government had nothing to do with that video. this is so wrong on so many levels, but one that bothers me is why isn't the government responsible? I mean this guy used the roads and bridges that were paid for by government. He didn't build that!

[elysiantraveller]

denial commerials running in Pakistan, Hillary declaring that the US government had nothing to do with that video. this is so wrong on so many levels, but one that bothers me is why isn't the government responsible? I mean this guy used the roads and bridges that were paid for by government. He didn't build that!

Should have just aired this...

wEwNcnklcsk

[Hoofhearted]

denial commerials running in Pakistan,
Where is the denial in that commercial?
I don't hear the word "deny" once.

They (the President and the Secretary of State) are simply affirming the tolerance and respect to all religions as is established in the constitution of the United States.
They are also making it clear that no agency or individual under the auspices of the U.S. executive had any hand or part in the making or distribution of the vile video.

And why is the heading on the clip "You Have Our Sympathy". Does any sane person on here really think that the President sympathises with terrorists over his own deceased ambassador? :confused:

It is an excellent commercial -- frank and honest and sincere. It is the effort of a responsible and concerned government. It is addressed to the vast majority of moderate Muslims who don't want any truck with fanatics or extremists in their midst.
I really do hope it succeeds in lessening tensions in Pakistan and the Middle East.

[fast4522]

Where is the denial in that commercial?
I don't hear the word "deny" once.

They (the President and the Secretary of State) are simply affirming the tolerance and respect to all religions as is established in the constitution of the United States.
They are also making it clear that no agency or individual under the auspices of the U.S. executive had any hand or part in the making or distribution of the vile video.

And why is the heading on the clip "You Have Our Sympathy". Does any sane person on here really think that the President sympathises with terrorists over his own deceased ambassador? :confused:

It is an excellent commercial -- frank and honest and sincere. It is the effort of a responsible and concerned government. It is addressed to the vast majority of moderate Muslims who don't want any truck with fanatics or extremists in their midst.
I really do hope it succeeds in lessening tensions in Pakistan and the Middle East.

"Libya provided advanced warning before attack"

Right, So the next move is to give more money to the Muslim Brotherhood. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This website is attracting all types, not so sure if they are all horse players.

[PaceAdvantage]

Where is the denial in that commercial?
I don't hear the word "deny" once.

They (the President and the Secretary of State) are simply affirming the tolerance and respect to all religions as is established in the constitution of the United States.
They are also making it clear that no agency or individual under the auspices of the U.S. executive had any hand or part in the making or distribution of the vile video.

And why is the heading on the clip "You Have Our Sympathy". Does any sane person on here really think that the President sympathises with terrorists over his own deceased ambassador? :confused:

It is an excellent commercial -- frank and honest and sincere. It is the effort of a responsible and concerned government. It is addressed to the vast majority of moderate Muslims who don't want any truck with fanatics or extremists in their midst.
I really do hope it succeeds in lessening tensions in Pakistan and the Middle East. When I heard the US government was spending money to air commercials in foreign lands...commercials designed to "distance" said government from some two-bit amateurish movie...I couldn't believe what I was reading...how utterly bizarre...

How about, instead, airing some commercials telling lunatic radical Muslims to stop blowing up innocents and sawing people's heads off?

But no...basically this commercial is nothing but a frightened neighbor going to the mob and pleading with them...."Oh no...it wasn't us...officially anyway...we had nothing to do with insulting you...please don't kill any more of us over this...we offer you nothing but great praise and respect..." :rolleyes:

Bunch of frightened bunny rabbits we are...so sad...

[elysiantraveller]

It is an excellent commercial -- frank and honest and sincere. It is the effort of a responsible and concerned government. It is addressed to the vast majority of moderate Muslims who don't want any truck with fanatics or extremists in their midst.
I really do hope it succeeds in lessening tensions in Pakistan and the Middle East.

I'm sorry but if you feel thats how the worlds hegemonic hyperpower should conduct policy... :bang:

"Please don't be mad at us" isn't a foreign policy position its a projection of weakness.

[ArlJim78]

using taxpayer money in foreign countries to put down our own freedom of speech is horrible, and I don't think it will garner much respect. you must project firmness, power, a resolute defense of what is right. this little mealy-mouthed plea from the secretary of state is pathetic. the top people in our government are reduced to whining about a youtube video. wtf?

[Tom]

Apologizing is the same as showing weakness.
The islamic world has now been rewarded by Obama and the WWotE Hillary. They know we are nothing any more - we will allow them to do anything, and believe me, they will. By comparison, Jimmy Carter now looks strong! :lol:

Expect a huge rise in terrorist activities, and probably a hostage situation soon.

They smell fear.

[Tom]

using taxpayer money in foreign countries for any reason is totally unacceptable. Spend OUR money HERE. Use your own if you feel strongly that they need help.

I humbly submit........

[Hoofhearted]

I'm sorry but if you feel thats how the worlds hegemonic hyperpower should conduct policy... :bang:

It's a prudent policy of maturity and commonsense ................ a better policy than "gunboat diplomacy". Unless, that is, you think it is a good idea to start a war with Pakistan and send many more young American soldiers to their deaths.

[Hoofhearted]

How about, instead, airing some commercials telling lunatic radical Muslims to stop blowing up innocents and sawing people's heads off?


Bunch of frightened bunny rabbits we are...so sad...
Ahhh, c'mon now !
The lunatic radical Muslims are being picked off and taken out every week by drone attacks.
This commercial is just an address to the big swathe of ordinary non-fundamentalist Muslims.
Like was said earlier in the thread, this commercial should not be taken as a sign of weakness. Anyone that calls it such is just being disingenuous. It is an effort to calm a very volatile situation and prevent further unnecessary loss of life.
I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that this evening, Pakistan is in flames. This is a very unstable period of time. Anything that encourages a lessening of tension must surly be a good thing.

[bigmack]

I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that this evening, Pakistan is in flames. This is a very unstable period of time. Anything that encourages a lessening of tension must surly be a good thing.
Has it escaped your notice the commercial has had NO effect on backwards thinking hillbilly Muslooms?

[Hoofhearted]

Has it escaped your notice the commercial has had NO effect on backwards thinking hillbilly Muslooms?
It hasn't escaped my notice that this is the second highly racist remark of yours today in the context of Pakistan and the Pakistani people and the Muslim creed in general.
It is comments such as yours ( and the mindset that generates those comments) that makes the effort of achieving global peace that little bit more difficult.

[bigmack]

It hasn't escaped my notice that this is the second highly racist remark of yours today in the context of Pakistan and the Pakistani people and the Muslim creed in general.
Point me to the "highly racist" parts.

[Hoofhearted]

You being serious, dude, with that question ?

How about "exponentially IGNORANT, stuck in the 3rd century, backwards, dumb shit, Pakistani's."
and,
"backwards thinking hillbilly Muslooms?"

Maybe you don't see these references as being stereotypically racist -- but I find it hard to believe that any reasonably minded person could fail to see the offence and insult therein.

Me, I feel a little "dirty" even quoting the comments !

[bigmack]

Me, I feel a little "dirty" even quoting the comments !
:lol: :lol: What a cream puff you is.

Work with me here. So you're saying if someone called this family, backwards hillbilly's you would consider them to be highly racist and blow a gasket ?

I don't think you have any idea what racist means.

http://happyvalleynews.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/01-honey-boo-boo-family.jpeg

If I call a gathering of protesters in Chicago backwards dumb shits would I again be demonstrating 'highly racist' comments?

You feel dirty. That is precious. :lol:

[elysiantraveller]

It's a prudent policy of maturity and commonsense ................ a better policy than "gunboat diplomacy". Unless, that is, you think it is a good idea to start a war with Pakistan and send many more young American soldiers to their deaths.

Who said anything about Gunboat diplomacy? I didn't. I said a sympathetic plea to the masses of a foreign nation is amateurish.

[Tom]

Apologizing to those who murdered your people is strictly a democrat thing. From a weak coward who is at best questionably one of us.

[Hoofhearted]

:lol: :lol: What a cream puff you is.

Whoa there, fella !
Consistently making -- as you do -- intolerant, prejudiced and xenophobic remarks about other peoples, nations, and creeds isn't "big".
Nor does habitually posting race-hate remarks on a public forum make you any more macho. (It's all a bit puerile and immature to-be-honest).

Conversely, I don't feel any less a man for advocating reconciliation and mutual respect between humanity's many races and creeds. If that makes me a "cream puff" in your eyes, then that says all that needs to be said about your particular mindset.

[bigmack]

Conversely, I don't feel any less a man for advocating reconciliation and mutual respect between humanity's many races and creeds.
Here's the kicker. On the 'Day of Love' in Pakistan, a certain portion of the population ran around going berserk as a result of some meth cooker making a video. See, that's ignorant. Is that a slam on a race? Or a country? Nah, but you're too ignorant to grasp that concept.

Ignorance is all over the place. Ireland. US. Pakistan. When I call it out for what it is, I have some tender, overly sensitive, one way thinking dude calling me a racist. Which I find hilarious.

Did it ever occur to you the actions of those nescient enough to lump all of America in with a convicted felon who made a video and run around the street yelling "Death to America" FAR OUTWEIGHS anything I've said. But yet you don't see that.

How strange.

[Tom]

Radical islam is a small minority of the people.



Uh huh.
10-4.
Got it.

[Hoofhearted]

Who said anything about Gunboat diplomacy? I didn't.
I never said you did !
I said that the policy of reconciliation and understanding is better than a policy of hostility and "gunboat diplomacy".
That is all.

[Hoofhearted]

Here's the kicker. On the 'Day of Love' in Pakistan, a certain portion of the population ran around going berserk as a result of some meth cooker making a video. See, that's ignorant. Is that a slam on a race? Or a country? Nah, but you're too ignorant to grasp that concept.


Some nifty footwork there ! Some quite deceptive shadowboxing on your part.
I.E., shifting the issue away from your own racist expressions by introducing some extraneous content about the "Love The Prophet" day in Pakistan. You were called on your uniformed dogmatic racism, and failed to answer.

Incidentally, there is only one person in this particular discussion displaying wholesale ignorance of global affairs ................. and it ain't me.

[Hoofhearted]

Radical islam is a small minority of the people.
Uh huh.
10-4.
Got it.
Can we please put to bed the falsehood that the majority of Muslims are militant fundamentalists without mercy or compassion. They are not.
In the past 48 hours, ordinary Muslims in their thousands attacked the radical islamists who killed Ambassador Stevens and killed at least six of those radicals.

Could I bring to the notice of the forum the following news report:

"Residents of Libya's second-largest city warned on Saturday of a "revolution" to get rid of armed militias and Islamic extremists after protests spurred in part by the killing of the US ambassador left four dead in an unprecedented eruption of public frustration.
A mass protest on Friday against militias and against the compounds of several armed groups in Benghazi lasted into early Saturday, as thousands stormed the headquarters of Ansar al-Sharia, an Islamic extremist group suspected in the September 11 attack on the US Consulate which saw the US ambassador killed.

They drove out the Ansar gunmen and set fire to cars in the compound and then moved onto the base of a second Islamist militia, the Rafallah Sahati Brigade. Brigade fighters opened fire to keep the protesters at bay.

The state news agency said four protesters were killed and 70 injured in the overnight violence.

There were no new protests on Saturday, but the city of one million people in eastern Libya was brimming with anger, rumors and conspiracy theories.

The bodies of six soldiers were found in the morning dumped on the outskirts of the city, shot through the forehead and their hands cuffed, state TV reported. An army colonel was reported missing, feared kidnapped".




And from the U.K. Telegraph:

"Up to four people were reported dead in clashes which broke out when the last and biggest militia was attacked in the early hours of Saturday morning. Earlier, members of Ansar al-Sharia, the militant group accused of responsibility for Mr Stevens' death, were forced out of their strongholds in the city.
The deaths and promises of retribution by militia leaders presage more trouble to come. But for the moment the headquarters of the freelance groups that have held sway in Benghazi since the revolution that toppled Col Muammar Gaddafi are claimed to be in the hands of police and army units loyal to the newly elected prime minister, Mustafa Abushagur.
The protests in Benghazi on Friday evening, estimated at 30,000-strong, featured pro-American slogans and banners. Though many protesters said they were attending "for Benghazi, not for America", some held up placards commemorating Mr Stevens, who lived in Benghazi last year while co-ordinating American support for the revolution.
"We demand justice for Stevens," said one, and "Libya lost a friend" another.
The march was given the title "Rally to Save Benghazi". Its aim and that of another, smaller demonstration in Tripoli was to demand the government, which Mr Abushagur is still forming, take control of security in the country and disband the militias or co-opt them into the army under a unified structure".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/9559743/Libya-Benghazi-crowds-drive-out-Islamist-militants-blamed-for-killing-US-ambassador.html

[Jay Trotter]

Well said HH! :ThmbUp:

Whoa there, fella !
Consistently making -- as you do -- intolerant, prejudiced and xenophobic remarks about other peoples, nations, and creeds isn't "big".
Nor does habitually posting race-hate remarks on a public forum make you any more macho. (It's all a bit puerile and immature to-be-honest).

Conversely, I don't feel any less a man for advocating reconciliation and mutual respect between humanity's many races and creeds. If that makes me a "cream puff" in your eyes, then that says all that needs to be said about your particular mindset.

[ArlJim78]

Can we please put to bed the falsehood that the majority of Muslims are militant fundamentalists without mercy or compassion. They are not.

thats some compassion
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef017c31e1069d970b-300wi

[Tom]

Islamic teleprompter?

[ElKabong]

Can we please put to bed the falsehood that the majority of Muslims are militant fundamentalists without mercy or compassion. They are not.


The protests in Benghazi on Friday evening, estimated at 30,000-strong, featured pro-American slogans and banners. Though many protesters said they were attending "for Benghazi, not for America", some held up placards commemorating Mr Stevens, who lived in Benghazi last year while co-ordinating American support for the revolution.
"We demand justice for Stevens," said one, and "Libya lost a friend" another.


From the link you provided I didn't see one picture of that supposed 30000 pro Amercian banner waivers.

However, there are multiple pictures, just on that page, of our flag being burned, people rioting. General lawlessness.

Your fluff piece has been rejected..... But the bodies of Americans were returned so I guess your type has that going for it...

We see what others do. We don't listen to the talk afterwards

[ElKabong]

Point me to the "highly racist" parts.

The part where Daniel Pearl is beheaded.

Or maybe that was their way of saying we need to apologize

[Greyfox]

Apologizing to those who murdered your people is strictly a democrat thing.

That is not a "democrat thing."

That is an Obama thing.

He can't even use the words Muslim and terrorist in the same sentence.

Do you really think that he blames Muslim terrorists for 911? or does he blame American behavior towards Muslims for spawning 911?

His calling card has been to apologize for America from the get go.

DAXA0WVwxiE

[Hoofhearted]

Your fluff piece has been rejected..... But the bodies of Americans were returned so I guess your type has that going for it...


You sad, sick person -- if you believe that I rejoice in the dead bodies of Americans.
All through this thread I have been advocating peaceful methods and an end to killings. Whereas you and your neocon hawk buddies have been baying for blood. You truly are warped. So less of the "your type" nonsense -- you don't know me and don't know the affection which I hold for the United States. and its people. I don't want to see anyone die as against your paranoid "nuke the shit" out of anyone who is not a White Anglo Saxon Protestant.


So my piece is fluff, is it?
That same fluff has been similarly reported by all of the world's major news organisations today. (But that truth doesn't quite gel with your particular agenda, so you'll probably reject those respected news sources too).
Anyway, a sample of today's reports ...............

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/world/africa/in-benghazi-libya-2-die-protesting-militia-compounds.html?ref=world&_r=0

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/21/world/africa/libya-benghazi-counter-protest/index.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-protests-libya-armybre88m054-20120923,0,4679474.story

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/22/libyan-protesters-militia-benghazi

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/252b6fd6-049f-11e2-b64f-00144feab7de.html#axzz27JHQzdqA

[ElKabong]

All through this thread I have been advocating peaceful methods and an end to killings.

You sad, sick person. You actually think your words are going to change radical muslims and stop the butchering and lynching Americans abroad, and at home....

When you grow up, you'll be able to see things as they are.... Not what you click your heels 3 times & wish them to be.

[ElKabong]

......as against your paranoid "nuke the shit" out of anyone who is not a White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
]

Since you haven't been paying attention, I don't fit the above description. If you had been paying attention, the ignorant stereotyping you used above would never had been typed.

Now, what was it you were accusing Mack of? Oh yeah, racism. LOL

[Tom]

Can't be me...I'm Catholic. :cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

Since you haven't been paying attention, I don't fit the above description.Forget it...he (or she) is on a roll...we're all blood-thirsty neocons...

But the truly blood-thirsty...the ones with their swords drawn, slicing off the heads of infidels while they beg and scream and convulse as the knife carves them up like a Thanksgiving turkey...the radical fundamentalists....THESE are the bastards that deserves our compassion and understanding of how they've been so wronged by an amateur film clip...

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

[Tom]

Wait until Obama's movie comes out.
Surely the libs here must be demanding it not be shown least blood flow.

hcap...mostie....what say you?

[bigmack]

If you had been paying attention, the ignorant stereotyping you used above would never had been typed.
It never quite dawns on him the colossal elephant in the room. THEIR going berzerk and lumping all Americans (Death to US) by the actions of a meth cooker. :D

According to him, THEY'RE not racist. They're just upset because WE made a video.

How do you fight ignorance? That's right, with ignorance.

Clearly, (not back me on this) I posses the sophistication of thought to know not all Pakistani's or LibYan's, or whatever, don't hate us. So when I say we should storm every 7-11 I'm proposing something as stupid as those ninnies.

But yet he never see's how ridiculous they're acting.

Like I've been saying all week; let 'em protest. See if I give a rats ass.

What am I supposed to do, get bent anytime people throughout the world express resentment of this country? Not bloody likely.

Awwww. Ya say you're pissed off, Mr. Backwards Pakistani? Shame.

Get over it.

[fast4522]

"Libya provided advanced warning before attack"

Israel will provide no advance warning.

[ElKabong]

Can't be me...I'm Catholic. :cool:

Yew dirty bloodthirsty Cathlicks !! :)

[ElKabong]

Forget it...he (or she) is on a roll...we're all blood-thirsty neocons...

But the truly blood-thirsty...the ones with their swords drawn, slicing off the heads of infidels while they beg and scream and convulse as the knife carves them up like a Thanksgiving turkey...the radical fundamentalists....THESE are the bastards that deserves our compassion and understanding of how they've been so wronged by an amateur film clip...

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does.....11 yrs ago we were told 19 individuals that were "radicals" were at fault for 9-11, and that Muslems are a peaceful people, Islam is the religion of peace. Just look the other way, it was a small group led by bin-Laden. Go after "them".

Now, there's ONE guy that released a 2-bit film & it causes this kind of shitstorm in over a dozen countries?? Who the F are the bloodthirsty ones here???

My tolerance fuse is running short. When some 90 lb weakling kicks you in the nuts time after time & has sycophants like HH telling us WE are blood thirsty, it gets old. Not to mention false

[ArlJim78]

The State Department has officially removed all government personnel from the Libyan city of Benghazi, closing the consulate building and possibly ending any chance of an on-site investigation of the attack there. Although it has been three weeks since the assault there that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other embassy employees, the FBI has still not been able to visit the compound, set up any operations in the city, or even interview any witnesses who were present during the terrorist attack.
State says all U.S. personnel still in the country have been moved to the capital Tripoli and any "diplomatic outreach" will be done remotely.

The Washington Post reports that the main compound that was burned during the attack on September 11 was locked on Monday, but the buildings were empty and unguarded. Any thing of value has been looted or picked through by local and journalists, and it's unlikely that investigators would find any useful evidence on site after such a long gap in time.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-pulls-staff-benghazi-103801982.html

[JustRalph]

Muslim is not a race

We have an example in history. Ghaddafi with cruise missile coming through his palace window shut him down pretty well for 20 years

[woodtoo]

[QUOTE=JustRalph]Muslim is not a race

And islam is not a religion,not now,not ever.

[woodtoo]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-pulls-staff-benghazi-103801982.html

4 dead 3 weeks and nothing (but denial).This is not the America I know.
I am dumbfounded,please excuse me while I puke on this State Dep. :mad:

[JustRalph]

4 dead 3 weeks and nothing (but denial).This is not the America I know.
I am dumbfounded,please excuse me while I puke on this State Dep. :mad:

Rumors abound that Obama is going to fire Susan Rice to cover for Hillary as soon as a news cycle turns against him. Some leaked emails being posted on twitter

[johnhannibalsmith]

Rumors abound that Obama is going to fire Susan Rice to cover for Hillary as soon as a news cycle turns against him. Some leaked emails being posted on twitter

Ahhh, the Democratic Party, Inc., protecting its investments.

[woodtoo]

Susan was thrown IN front of the bus and she never saw it coming :eek:
Tough crowd she hangs.... er hung with.

[bigmack]

Rumors abound that Obama is going to fire Susan Rice to cover for Hillary as soon as a news cycle turns against him.
Hard to believe ANYONE will be held accountable for ANYTHING in this admin, let alone her being part of the "not really black club", with BO, EHolder & Co.

Height differential between she & husBand? 4 & a half feet. (Size 6)

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/GoogleImageResultforhttp---2bpblogspotcom--5ZMdp9mkBF4-TlJvVMa9sPI-AAAAAAAABBc-6iuodxZfLjU-s1600-Susan252BRice252Band252BIan252BCameron2jpg.png

[cj's dad]

I understand when Panetta goes Kerry might be appointed.

Supported by Vietnam era vets for the position.


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