Political Ideology

[cj]

How do most of you think one develops their political beliefs? I tend to think it is mostly influenced by one's situation in life. In another words, who is going to help ME the most? Being military, I often find myself torn. Republicans have definitely helped us the most, but I also grew up in Baltimore where they have been little help ever. Not that they've had much chance, but I doubt it would matter.

I would guess most start out believing what their parents believe in, then change if life leads them to a different area, career path, etc. What do you think?

[Tom]

Yeah, I was raised in a democratic household and although I never regitered with any party, I was a lberal democrate supporter until Regean's second term. I found it impossible to contiunue to grown and learn and still subscrtibe to the liberal doctrine. The more I learned through life, the less libral I became.
Although if some demo would have come out with the Howard Dean rebel yell back then, I probably could have been brought back into line. :D

I think it was Jimy Carter who put the doubts into my mind about the liberal side. he was such a damn loser and ineefective stump of a president, a total disgrace, that believeing in him was just impossible. Juxtapose his presidency with Ronald Regean's dynamic, tough, antio-communist term, I was drawn in and have never looked back. I suppose that now I am even farther right than Regean ever was, but that is ok.

[Suff]

I think everyone shares ideas with each party. I think an income tax is unconstitutional...and I think our Govt is to large. I also think most people,, including wealthy people are over taxed.

A dope sick Junkie shoots up drug den. Wounds 3, Kills 2.
The total cost of a scene like this to me and you is about 10 million in direct cost. Medical Bills, Prosecuturial and life imprisonement costs... and the social costs if the victims have children and what not.

My Father told me once and I believe it... A paycheck solves 90% of lifes problems. You have got to give the people opportunity. I don't feel republicans understand that a Dollar spent on a Job is 10 dollars saved on the operating table and Prisons.

They insist people fend for themslelves. Many people cannot.

I like the democratic approach to social ills, vices and problems. I think they are more cost effective, better for humanity, saves lives and improves lives of people who need it the most. Poor People.

btw .. I don't dislike anyone because of thier poltical affiliation. I respect a persons right to control his own desitiny. No matter what party they gravitate towards. I think the Democratic Party believes more in the POWER of the individual. That given the opportunity ... Real opportunity. Anyone can and will excel. That is a core American belief.

[DJofSD]

Here I go again, posting a reply to a non-horsey thread. It's going to upset my horsey/non-horsey ratio <g>.

Suff, I have to ask, after reading I think the Democratic Party believes more in the POWER of the individual. That given the opportunity ... Real opportunity. I have to ask, are you baiting the conservatives on this board?

DJofSD

[Suff]

how? saying something pro-democratic is baiting? Baiting how? That you think the republican agenda is better for individual power and freedom? I don't... not at all... . Hows that Baiting?

thats my belief. Did I anger you or hurt your party pride because you disagree with me?

[DJofSD]

Suff,

Well, I guess it comes down to what I believe to be true of the two major political parties and what they stand for.

I've always believed the Republicans were more aligned with the ideals that an individual is more important than any government entity. That is not to say government is unnecessary.

On the other hand, my uptake of the Democratic party is an individual must depend upon the government to be able to survive, e.g. Social Security, the Great Society, socialized medicine.

And when it comes to tax policy, it always seems that the liberal party wants to tax the rich. How does that square with promoting the interests of the individual?

DJofSD

[JustRalph]

I am with Tom.......Demo family.....around Carter Time I fell off the wagon. I am with Suff on the Taxes and a few other things. But I agree with DJofSD on the question to Suff.

The Dems don't want me to own a gun..............
they want to tell me how to live, much more than the Repubs.
they want to instill their brand of high ideals. I saw the Limo Liberals and their idea of how to live. I was around them in Brentwood Ca and my wife spent tons of time with them. They really do think that "they know better" I can tell you that many of these people are just older versions of Paris Hilton and her ilk. they stand around in Parties and talk about how "the working man should behave" and they really think they know what is good for everybody else. Many of them have never worked a day in their life. They give millions of dollars to the Dems to advance these Demo agenda's. They also help to pull the wool over the eye's of millions of poor people who have bought into this crap. Tell me how much better off poor people are since Johnson's war on poverty. The rolls are bigger. The Dems controlled Congress for 40 years and it didn't get better. The rolls grew. I believe in helping the poor. But the Demos way of doing doesn't work. The one's who want to work and climb out do. Take my word for it. My wife and I did. Through 15 years of hard work.
the Dems would take more of my money (Taxes) for programs that I shouldn't have to pay for. I believe in helping the poor. I disagree with the Dems definition of the poor. Repubs used to use a term called the "Deserving poor" I believe there are people who fit in that camp. But when you see the Dems wanting to throw my money into things like the National Endowment for the arts...........I balk. Then again the Repubs spend goofy money too. I just think the Repubs spend less 'Goofy money" out of my pocket. The Dems would disband the Pentagon and cut it to ribbons if allowed. I can't stand that thought. They would ask the U.N. for permisson to do anything. That doesn't cut it in my book.

[cj]

I guess upon thinking about, I can't understand why Baltimore is so pro-democratic. They have been in charge forever, and nothing has improved. The schools are horrible, the murders and drug problems continue to get worse and worse, un-wed motherhood is the norm, illiteracy, etc. People are moving out of the city at an alarming rate. As a kid, Baltimore was over 1 million in population. I doubt it is 600,000 now. I could go on forever. Many neighborhoods look like war torn Bosnia, and that is no exaggeration. In all honesty, I would never consider moving back there upon retirement to raise a family. It would be outright stupid in my opinion. Its probably why I lean a little towards Republicans these days. I've seen the democrats in action on the local scale, and I'm not impressed. ( I admit I voted for Clinton the first time, but I'm much wiser now :D.)

[Tom]

I go there for work, but not so much lately. I drive around the Broening Highway, Boston Avene area by the docks, just of the tunnel exits-the GM plant there. I look forward to eating at Jimmy's-the seafood restaurant from Homacide: Life on the Street.
But there ar e few blcoks I never want to stray into. Used to stop
at a littel 7-11 just below E. Boston-they had the Racing Times and Racing Form. And TasteyKakes-Chocolate Juniors, and Crab flavored potato chips. You just can't get that kind of food in Western NY. :D

Then one day, I was going in the door and saw three bullet? holes in the front door. :eek:

[Suff]

Originally posted by JustRalph
I am with Tom.......Demo family.....around Carter Time I fell off the wagon. I am with Suff on the Taxes and a few other things. But I agree with DJofSD on the question to Suff.

The Dems don't want me to own a gun..............
they want to tell me how to live, much more than the Repubs.
they want to instill their brand of high ideals. I saw the Limo Liberals and their idea of how to live. I was around them in Brentwood Ca and my wife spent tons of time with them. They really .

No one can ever say for sure that every human being , abled body or not can particpate at the same level in our society.

I know this much. For many , many people. Getting out of bed and putting pants on everyday is an excruciating experience. Poverty is the most debiltating experience in America. We are the most Capitialist and "Goods" Orientated country in the world. It's unrealistic to expect that "everyone" can play this game. Many people are weak. Not bad. Weak. Many people by thier very nature... if it be, mental, emotional, social, or circumstance can't get off the bottom rung. Its a very sad experience to be mired in poverty for a lifetime. I say we leave the poor be. They have it bad enough. They're our weak link.

I happen to believe that from this pool of people we can draw our greatest. Thats what America's expirement is.... That our society draws on all people from all groups to extract a GREAT SOCIETY.

The poor need more help than anyone to make that happen. Its extremely tough to escape poverty.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Suff
I know this much. For many , many people. Getting out of bed and putting pants on everyday is an excruciating experience.

You must have seen me this morning.......... thank god for chiropractors

[Suff]

Originally posted by JustRalph
You must have seen me this morning.......... thank god for chiropractors

Ralph... Let me try and throw you a curve Ball.

The roman Empire is frequently held up as one of the , if not, the most successful society on historical record.


Your Famliar with thier greatest Army? The Spartans. I'm no Roman expert but I know some quirky things about the Spartans that are a Jolt to the senses... I figure you know what I'm going to tell you about the Spartans...so I'll hold off and give you a chance to agree with me about Rome and its finest fighers were the Spartans. as in the Michigan state SPARTANS...

what do you know about the spartans off the top of your head?

[Show Me the Wire]

Suff:

Let me jump in here. Spartans were Greeks and most people know how the Greeks used to separate the men from the boys in ancient times.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Show Me the Wire]

with a crowbar.

Sorry PA I could not resist that setup.

[Secretariat]

Suff,

Sparta is in Greece, not Italy, Rome. Sparta was a military city-state that democratic Athens was terrified of.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Suff,

Sparta is in Greece, not Italy, Rome. Sparta was a military city-state that democratic Athens was terrified of.

Right Army wrong country.. thanks... I bet you know where I am going with them ? on the subject of a society and as an army? You already know more than I about them... Do You know about the odd culture they lived? I read some things about them that Jolted me senses about history and human developmet.

[Show Me the Wire]

The Spartans were the first liberals in Greece. Their main goal was to crush, through conquest, the democratic society flourishing in Athens. The Spartans believed they knew what was best for the other city-states of Greece.

Is that what you mean Suff?

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Suff]

They were extremley Liberal. I don't want to say anything in detail about the far from mainstream thought they were.... but they made a significant dent in human history. Some things I read just the other day had me thinking. They were radical... way ahead of thier time in many ways.

[Suff]

and am I wrong again when I say that athens was Part of the Roman Empire at this time?

[Show Me the Wire]

Different time frames. Rome was initially modeled on Greek, Athens society.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Suff]

Originally posted by Show Me the Wire
Different time frames. Rome was initially modeled on Greek, Athens society.


Another reason I'm a democrat. I'm a member of a Victims Rights group. I'm a victim of the dumbing down of america. I used to be much smarter and I was dragged down by the national IQ.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Suff
I'm a victim of the dumbing down of america. I used to be much smarter and I was dragged down by the national IQ.

Classic.......

I know where you were going Suff. I have read several theories on the Spartans. I even read somewhere that many were actually women? Disguised as men.......there were some serious transgender issues with that crowd.......

But Kirk Douglas and Tony Curtis never looked better huh?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Show Me the Wire
with a crowbar.

Sorry PA I could not resist that setup.


ROTFLMAO!

BTW, did you you know the greeks invented tailoring? The first tailors were Euripides and Eumendadese.:rolleyes:

[Show Me the Wire]

Suff:

Never questioned your intelligence. Sometimes we lose our path, yet there is hope. I too was a Democrat. I started to waiver during LBJ’s (btw I think it stands for lying bast*rd Judas) term and jumped off the bandwagon on Jimmy’s watch.

As I watched the nominating conventions and more importantly the image portrayed by the people attending them, I felt more compelled and attracted to associate with the type of image being projected by the attendees to the Republican conventions.

In all seriousness, I am dumbfounded by these Democrats decrying the use of force to protect the nation, in light of the historical fact JFK was ready to attack the U.S.S.R. with nuclear missiles, because the U.S.S.R. wanted to base nuclear missiles in a sovereign country named Cuba.

Cuba did not attack U.S. soil killing people on U.S. soil, but JFK was willing to kill thousands of innocent Russian civilians if Cuba accepted those missiles. Imagine the death of thousand of innocent U.S. civilians caused by the U.S.S.R.’s retaliation. Even though JFK was on the brink of killing hundreds of thousands innocent civilians, Democrats hail JFK as a great president. Yet these same Democrats defile President Bush for acting like JFK in protecting the U.S. from foreign aggression. There is no logic to this Democratic reasoning. I am not knocking JFK, as I believe JFK acted against a perceived threat, based in a foreign sovereign nation, against the people JFk swore to protect from foreign aggression.

In my opinion President Bush acted with better moral authority as violence was perpetrated upon U.S. soil by foreign aggressors, than JFK would have had, based on a perceived threat, if he fired those missiles killing thousands of innocent women and children.

Additionally, JFK inspired the space program, RR updated the space program, while Clinton neglected the space program.

In my opinion if I draw parallels the mainstream leadership of the contemporary Republican Party is more JFK like than the contemporary Democratic leadership.

If the Democrats desire to return to their real roots they should heed JFK and ask themselves “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for you country” and reject LBJ’s mantra of creating the Great Society by asking what can your great Country do for you.

In conclusion my turning point began with LBJ and ended with Carter.

Cjmilkowski:

The above is my round about answer to your question.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Tom]

I know at least 20 people that are either conservative-thinking or outright republicans that used to be liberals or democrates, and several posters here share that path. But what about the other way around? Is the a group out there that started out conservative or republican and went the other way? And if so, why? Who turned you? When did you convert?

[Show Me the Wire]

Tom:

I know it is the year of the monkee ( I can't remember if I am a goat or a pig), but, you dealt a lethal blow to the further development of this thread.

The direction of change you have seen is not ccoincidence.

It is the resulting cause and effect of LBJ and Jimmie and throw the Rev. J. J. in for good measure. What person could overcome that lethal combination? Or better yet whom would admit to it?

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality