Valenzuela fires Agent [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

karlskorner

01-20-2004, 12:00 PM

so.cal.fan.

Maybe so, but I don't think that was a good enough reason for the firing. Not to many "good" agents are willing to take on P. Val with his "habit". It's not going away, just lying dormant. Let his new agent put him on "dead" rides and he could topple very quickly.

so.cal.fan

01-20-2004, 12:02 PM

We heard that was the reason.
I know there has been bad blood between these two jockeys for many years.

Buddha

01-20-2004, 02:14 PM

there was talk of this last month when his agent got nakatani. we all just thought it was a matter of time before he was fired. i just don't understand his agents thinking. unless he is real greedy, i would think that p.vals mounts would have made him a decent living, not needing a second jock, but maybe i am wrong.

i do think that it will be tough for him to get a good agent with his past, but i think there will probably be one or two that will take his book because of his "now" potential. until he lapses back to his older days, he is the top rider on the so.cal circuit right now, at least win-wise.

BillW

01-20-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Buddha
there was talk of this last month when his agent got nakatani. we all just thought it was a matter of time before he was fired. i just don't understand his agents thinking. unless he is real greedy, i would think that p.vals mounts would have made him a decent living, not needing a second jock, but maybe i am wrong.

i do think that it will be tough for him to get a good agent with his past, but i think there will probably be one or two that will take his book because of his "now" potential. until he lapses back to his older days, he is the top rider on the so.cal circuit right now, at least win-wise.

Buddha,

Here's your chance, and you're just a drive across the desert away :D

Hope you are enjoying the trip,

Bill

JimG

01-20-2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by karlskorner
so.cal.fan.

Maybe so, but I don't think that was a good enough reason for the firing. Not to many "good" agents are willing to take on P. Val with his "habit". It's not going away, just lying dormant. Let his new agent put him on "dead" rides and he could topple very quickly.

What an optimist you are Karl! I prefer to think that PVal has worked very hard to resurrect his career and also has a very stable family/home life now. I play SoCal alot and can say he has been riding terrific. There is no question in my mind he has won many races with less than the best horse in the race. It has not all been plum mounts.

Here's hoping that whatever lies ahead for PVal, he stays clean and sober.

Jim

karlskorner

01-20-2004, 03:42 PM

JimG

Yours "There is no question in my mind he has won many races with less than the best horse in the race"

It's a matter of opinion as to the best horse in the race, his agent put him on what he thought was the best horse, most times he was right.

I have know people in the AA, some lasted 10 months, others lasted 10 years. That damn demon lies awaiting.

Observer

01-20-2004, 04:19 PM

If the reasoning is because the agent took on Nakatani, then why wouldn't PVal turn around and say to the agent something like .. "hey .. on second thought, I don't like the idea .. get rid of him .. or I go" .. so that PVal could keep his agent who he's had .. why would Nakatani get to keep the agent?

As for the habit .. only time will tell .. but other riders have kicked it .. maybe there haven't been as many that have been as troubled as PVal .. but others have admitted to substance abuse problems.

And I don't believe the agent should get the bulk of the credit .. sure he picked out the mounts .. but not neccessarily who he thought was best .. but rather the best of what was available .. the rider still has to go out there and sell himself/herself with doing a good job. I'm sure PVal had established a reputation over the past so many months that, for the most part, trainers were seeking him out, rather than the agent seeking out mounts .. we're not talking about a rookie, here .. and sure, the agent still had to make decisions .. but PVal was more than likely involved in important decisions that required choices to be made.

JimG

01-20-2004, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by karlskorner
JimG

Yours "There is no question in my mind he has won many races with less than the best horse in the race"

It's a matter of opinion as to the best horse in the race, his agent put him on what he thought was the best horse, most times he was right.

Actually he won far less than 50% of his mounts so using that logic, his agent was wrong much more often than right.

My "opinion" is based on watching So Cal races and observing jockey tactics. It is my opinion, and that is probably why I think it is correct

:D

Jim

Hosshead

01-20-2004, 05:00 PM

P.Val is one of the top jocks in the nation. That is not good enough for his agent? So the agent has to get another jock? Sounds like the agent doesn't have much confidence in his jock.

karlskorner

01-20-2004, 05:13 PM

Maybe the agent knows or suspects something that we don't know.

alysheba88

01-20-2004, 07:04 PM

P Val was right to fire him.

Agent should NOT be handling two jockeys book. NO WAY.

Pat Val will do far better without him than the agent will do with Nakatani

so.cal.fan

01-20-2004, 07:10 PM

Scotty McClennen, had Chris McCarron and Alex Solis for years.
Bob Meldahl had Nakatani and Pincay for a long time.
This is a common practice in So. Calif. with the handful of top agents.
Check out the Santa Anita website under horsemen, pull up a condition book and go through to the page where they list all the agents and jocks. Several have two.
P.Val may have thought he could handle Nick having Nakatani, but it just didn't work out.......like I said, these two jocks never got along.
From what I have heard, and this may be incorrect, who knows?, but that is all there was to it. Time will tell.

alysheba88

01-20-2004, 07:29 PM

I understand it is common practice so cal.

That does not mean I (or more importantly Pat Val) has to like it and agree with it.

PaceAdvantage

01-20-2004, 11:56 PM

I'll go with the woman on the spot here, so.cal.fan She would likely know better than any of us. She's there day in and day out, and it makes sense that if these two jockeys dislike each other that much, there is no way in hell having the same agent is going to work out....

JustRalph

01-21-2004, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by karlskorner
JimGYours "There is no question in my mind he has won many races with less than the best horse in the race"

Can you say Adoration! I sat at my computer and told my wife that PVal on a 40-1 shot was an overlay no matter what the hell the race was. I put the damn horse under on my exotic tickets and then watched him wire the field with no money on him to win. I worried about him when he came back, but I agree with JimG. There is no better rider on the West Coast and not very many better one's period. The guy would be live on a Billy Goat in the Dubai Cup...............

karlskorner

01-21-2004, 08:44 AM

Todays DRF has a followup. Note the last paragraph. Valenzuela was asked to submit to a random drug test on Monday. He can be randomly be tested "a minimum of eight times a month", he was also tested Saturday. Does the Calif. Horse Racing Board trust him ? If you were his agent, would you be concerned ?

http://www.drf.com/news/article/52802.html

alysheba88

01-21-2004, 08:56 AM

kk, think thats a pretty despicable insinuation.

JimG

01-21-2004, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by karlskorner
Todays DRF has a followup. Note the last paragraph. Valenzuela was asked to submit to a random drug test on Monday. He can be randomly be tested "a minimum of eight times a month", he was also tested Saturday. Does the Calif. Horse Racing Board trust him ? If you were his agent, would you be concerned ?

http://www.drf.com/news/article/52802.html

What is it with you and Valenzuela? He doesn't ride in SoFla so I cannot imagine it is a riding probem. Maybe you have a problem with former drug users in general? Whatever...

Just fetch the articles without the commentary. We are all adults and can reach our own conclusions.

karlskorner

01-21-2004, 09:30 AM

"despicable insituatiion". Let me put it another way. You are out driving and there is a "DUI' next to you, are you concerned ? You are a jockey going 35 mph down the back stretch and there is a known "user" you would like to pass, are you concerned ? The CHRB tests him on Saturday and again Monday, are they concerned ?

so.cal.fan

01-21-2004, 09:35 AM

Karl,
It was part of the deal when they gave him back his license that he be tested often, I can't recall the actual agreement, but I think anytime he takes any time off for any reason, he is required to be tested this often.
So....it is probably not all that significant.

alysheba88

01-21-2004, 09:36 AM

kk. Pat Val understands why he is tested and I do too. No problem with that. He made many mistakes in his life, of which he has been honest about.

They have a right to test him. But for you to insinuate his agent should be worried (and now other riders should be worried about their safety) is very unfair to me. Unless you have some special information that he is on drugs or drinking.

karlskorner

01-21-2004, 11:25 AM

As JimG pointed out, it's not my problem, my bag is packed and I am heading out to GP.

so.cal.fan

01-22-2004, 12:14 PM

I did hear another "rumor" yesterday, and I hope it is not true.
We all don't want it to be. Hope the initial report was the correct one.

Observer

01-22-2004, 03:28 PM

I'm still having a hard time understanding why PVal and his agent would split because of Nakatani .. I get that there is supposedly tensions between the two riders .. and that PVal has had his history of problems .. but .. believing PVal is keeping his act together .. after this time and success since PVal's return, wouldn't there be loyalty for the agent to stick with him, rather than split and stay with Nakatani after just one month of also representing him.

Now, if the case was that the agent absolutely wanted to book for two riders, and PVal was against that .. I could understand the agent sticking with Nakatani, so that he could find another rider to fill his 2-rider intentions .. since PVal said he is against this practice.

And, while I don't think I agree with agents being permitted to handle two journeymen, I could certainly understand why the agents would want to take full advantage of the rule .. not just for the added income .. but this is a dangerous game .. who knows when a rider will be out from injury .. having a second rider is like an income insurance policy, in a sense.

so.cal.fan

01-22-2004, 04:36 PM

Nakatani and Valenzuela do not get along, to put it mildly.
This has been the case for years.
I hope this is all there is to this, but it may not be.
I like P. Val as a rider, he always tries for you.
I can't say the same for Nakatani, however Nakatani is pretty solid and doesn't have the personal problems Pat has had.
There was a bigger rift between Valenzuela and Cosato than reported in the media.

so.cal.fan

01-22-2004, 08:40 PM

Sorry to say the negative rumors persist.
I guess it's not good.
I am very sorry about this. Was really hoping Pat would make it this time. Still hope it's not true........
I suppose the media will pick this up, and we shall get yet more negative publicity.

JimG

01-22-2004, 08:47 PM

Corey Black is PVal's new agent. Black will also stay on TVG. PVal claims to have twisted his ankle leaving for the track and begged off for today. That part is probably fueling rumors. Hopefully, they are just rumors. Time will tell.

Jim