Dean The End??

[melman]

After the Iowa result is Howard Dean finished?? As a "right wing nut case" I sure hope not. Not trying to be off the wall here but with Dean running you do have different views. A real matchup of viewpoints. Hope he can recover and make it a horse race. I really would like to see a Bush - Dean election. The "pros" who look at such things say Dean was killed by the senior citizens vote in Iowa. Gee no kidding LOL For this they get paid a lot of money?? And who were the people who made him the front runner in the first place. That makes NH very interesting esp with General Clark having large investment in that primary. Funny the Democrats running a General?? That matchup would be at least interesting just not a Kerry or Edwards vs Bush please. Let's have a real "rumble" with the vote and not just another "me too" thing.

[ljb]

Not an expert in any field but, i think Dean is done! Hopefully all those folks who supported him early on will not abandon their efforts. And remember the big goal, remove the Cheney/Rummy/Ashcroft gang from the whitehouse.

[melman]

ljb I think Dean still has a fighting chance. At least I hope so. What do you think if all the primary stuff results in a toss-up? Does that give Hillary a shot?? Now that would be interesting a Clinton Bush race. I understand your big goal is getting rid of the Bush team but with that said you I think would have to prefer one of the candidates running who most represents your viewpoint.

[ljb]

Melman,
My viewpoint is "get the Bush gang out of there" Hope this doesn't upset anyone.
ABB
imho most all the candidates are better then the current resident.
Al Sharpton is just an issue candidate but he does keep them honest to a limited extent.
I could see Hillary coming on as a candidate if we end up in a tie but, don't think that will happen.
The good thing about Hillary is she really makes the righty's blood boil. The bad thing about Hillary is she really makes the righty's blood boil.

[ljb]

Melman,
A little clarification here. The current administration is so far right that we don't need a far left opponet to show a difference. Senator McCain from Arizona would be a liberal compared to those in the current administration.
ABB

[melman]

Very good thinking on the Hillary issue. LOL I think you have that 100% correct. And I have no problem with your anyone but Bush viewpoint. Only one way I would vote for a Democratic nominee and that would be Bradley. Would have went with him last time. However that just will not happen. BTW as far as Bush being extreme right wing you could have it worse much worse they could nominate me. LOL

[Figman]

Comment on Howard Dean in his race for the nomination.

"Brief early speed"

[ceejay]

Originally posted by Figman
Comment on Howard Dean in his race for the nomination.

"Brief early speed"

Speed and fade? Wait for second start???

[cato]

Dean leads into the stretch, savaged by kerry and edwards, fades to distant third

And, its a happy day for most democrats everywhere. Almost anyone would have a better chance in the general election than Dean

[Tom]

I had hoped Dean would be the next sacrificial lamb, bu all good thinkg must end.
As far as Dean is concerned, it is all over but the rebel yelling!
I thought that last night, he was going to break into a chorus of Werewolves of London:D
I'll miss the cute little spinning top and his view de jours!

[Suff]

a 100% increase in Voter turnout. More than double the 2000 democratic caucus. Iowa democrats are 75% to 25% against the Iraq war. They dislike the direction and tone our Country has taken on under this administration. They resent that Al Gore won the Popular vote and not the presidency. They resent that the Florida supreme court decided our president in 2000. A sumpreme court who's members are nominated by the winners brother.

I understand thier discontent. I share most of it. Lest we forget... electoral college votes aside.... more people that went to te polls in 2000 voted for Al Gore than Goerge Bush. Americans...
I like Dean and he's not Dead. At the same time I like Edwards and Kerry very much and I think an edwards/kerry, kerry edwards ticket will be formidable.

I'm not entirley convinced I will not vote for GWBII. If the election were held today I probaly would. But I'm eager to hear what platform will come out of the DNC in July.

The convention is in Boston and I'm on a Labor Platform Committee. We're supposed to come up with ideas we will submit to another comiteee that will talk with the potential Nominee. My first meeting is in May. Unfortunately for me, I have been arrested in my lifetime... and won't be allowed in the convention center in July. I can thank 9/11 for that. Osmama fixed me but good. I can't even plow at Logan Airport. Back when we had that Huge snowstorm... I went over to plow for 96.00 an hour and was told my subcontractor agreement had been nullified. Under the new PATRIOT ACT they ran a check on me using information I supplied for insurance/liabilty reasons. I was booted. I've been making side money there all my life... no more. Osama took a big chunk out of my ass on 9/11. If GWBII gets Osmama Bid Laden between now and the election he'll probably get my vote.

[Boris]

One thing's for sure, the Democrats will be "Dickless" this time around. Look for him to surface on FOX News in the next election cycle.

[Figman]

Suff,
Got a great deal of respect for you and I don't question your politics.....but you cannot possibly believe that our country would be better off today with Al Gore. His own home state of Tennessee didn't even give him a plurality in the last presidential election and they knew him best. Why his father was a legend in both Tennessee and Washington, so Al Gore's whole life was well known to Tennessee and they rejected him!. Thank God we have the Electorial College. Al Gore is so out of it that as soon as he endorsed Howard Dean.....Dean faded. And Gore giving a speech on global warming in NYC last week in below zero weather was just another pie in his face. C'mon Suff, this buffoon is lacking leadership qualities.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Suff
They resent that the Florida supreme court decided our president in 2000. A sumpreme court who's members are nominated by the winners brother.

Suff, I think your great......I mean it......damn fine guy. But you need to research this one. I don't think this is what happen. See this link http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/11/30/163945.shtml

Florida ruled in Gore's favor. The U.S. Supreme Court basically ruled in Bush's favor, after the Florida Court ruled. There were some large Newspapers who went to Florida in the year after the election and examined the voter info and found that Gore probably did not win the popular vote. They wrote about it but nobody gave a shit by then. I pray that crap doesn't happen again.

[Tom]

Hey, I have heard this crap long enough. If you don't like the fact that the electoral college elects the president not us, then change the damn law. Everyone knew it going in. So drop it.
Al Gore...l.wasn't he the POS that didn't want the absentee votes of our military to be counted?

[Suff]

Originally posted by Figman
Suff,
Got a great deal of respect for you and I don't question your politics.....but you cannot possibly believe that our country would be better off today with Al Gore. His own home state of Tennessee didn't even give him a plurality in the last presidential .

Gentleman... Who I said I wanted Al Gore? I was quoting exit poll stats from Zogby. As far as who's a leader and who would be a better president... I say its a crap shoot.

Hitler was elected by a democracy. and despite popular thought, hitler occupied most of Europe peacefully. ANd when his expansion threataned russia...war was on.. I am most definately not Pro-hitler in anyway.. But those are truths.

Queen Elizabeth of England. 16th century. Great Leader. She built the English Navy, and sent it out to conquer the world and it did. She is BIG reason why America is even here today.

Do you know how she came to power? Her dad was henry the 8th. He behaded his fist wife because she was catholic and he could'nt divorce her... so he cut her head off... Married a protestant... converted the country to the church of England..and when he konked, Elizabeth took the crown while her 1/2 sister from henrys first marriage was imprisoned in a tower.

.

Remember the President of Peru? Alberto Fujimori? He was elected by a democracy. His parents were Japanese. He was Harvard educated. Turns out he hid dual citizenship and was a Japanese resident while also the PRESIDENT of Peru. He bankrupted the country... fled to Japan and is living the high life. Great Leader?

I'm not fazed by emotional democracy. I rank it as one of the better forms of Government... but it has its limits. I'm not afraid to incorportate GOOD IDEAS from other successful forms of Govenrment. Or New ideas that have never been Tried. Dismantling the whole thing and doing something else should always be an option we have. Its our Government. We can change it.

AMERICA is a tiny 200 years old and barely a blip on the worlds historical record... When somone says "This is the way we have always done it in this country"! Thats a closed mind. America should always be blasting through walls.. Trying new things, changing, growing..... Building a society of unheralded personal power and opportunity.

[Tom]

Which Hitler are you talking about? Adolf? Franky? Sal?
I think 6 million Jews would dispute his "peaceful" rule. And the French resistance. And the English would certainly hasten to mention the bombing raids.

[Zimal1]

The various TV comments on CNN after the Iowa caucus were enlightening. One stated that Bush's popularity by poll is primarily around national security and little else--ergo, there are two Democratic candidates that can credibly challenge that ---Kerry and Clark. The fear of attack will undoubtedly drive this election overtly, and subconsciously.
Another comment was that in Massachusetts, despite the knock on Kerry as too patrician or aristocratic, he carried the working class against Weld, a popular politician, in the Senate race.
A third said that the debates between Weld and Kerry were historical in their eloquence, and second only to Lincoln-Douglas
in that respect. Of course, the Bush camp would never allow GW to speak without a script, but even so, Kerry will likely emerge as more thoughtful and articulate.
Bush will rely on the same kind of emotional sloganism about "right" and "good' that he has all along. That and 'might makes right.' Life is a little more nuanced than that. The power of the US doesn't need to be proven again and again. Hopefully the American people will not be sucked in. No Democrat will sacrifice national security, but surely there is huge room for improvement on universal health care, the environment (cough!cough!) corporate greed, real compassion for the poor, et al.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Zimal1
Bush will rely on the same kind of emotional sloganism about "right" and "good' that he has all along. That and 'might makes right.' Life is a little more nuanced than that. The power of the US doesn't need to be proven again and again. Hopefully the American people will not be sucked in. No Democrat will sacrifice national security, but surely there is huge room for improvement on universal health care, the environment (cough!cough!) corporate greed, real compassion for the poor, et al.

another one on the DNC fax list?

[Suff]

Originally posted by Tom
Which Hitler are you talking about? Adolf? Franky? Sal?
I think 6 million Jews would dispute his "peaceful" rule. And the French resistance. And the English would certainly hasten to mention the bombing raids.

England used appeasement with Hitler. Chamberlain made an agreement with Hitler that he could HAVE chechzoslavakia and other parts of Europe that were better than 50% German in population. The Nazis Marched into many a city without a shot being fired.

Hitler fought in 50 battles in WW1... was awarded the IRON CROSS. Unheard of for a corporal. He resented the Borders that England and France redrew after WW1. He disagreed with the Armisitice treaty germany signed. He hated Communists and JEWS.

He insisted Germany was shorted in the Treaty. He demanded he be allowed to reclaim land he thought part of the Mother Land.

Many at the time viewed appeasement as an answer and they allowed Hitler to send his armys peacefully into citys.

I was using the Term "Occupation" as a verb... not as a noun. he occupied many areas peacfully when much of Europe was complicit in APPEASEMENT...

Hitler Bombed Poland and appeasement went out the window.

And 2 points of interest in response to the innocent Jews Hitler Murdered.

While Hitler Killed 6 million Jews in Germany. Stalin Killed 10 million People bewteen 1930 and 1944. 10 million. He was executing 1500 people a day! in public ! in Leningrad square alone. He killed Mostly Christians.

and for no other reason except it is true. Hitler was Jewish.

[ceejay]

On the lighter side, I heard today-- on NPR-- a commentator say that Dean is in VT today having a "rhetorical lobotomy."

[Tom]

Whenever I saee him, I want to ask him, "Why the long face?"
:rolleyes:

[wolsons]

"While Hitler Killed 6 million Jews in Germany. Stalin Killed 10 million People bewteen 1930 and 1944. 10 million. He was executing 1500 people a day! in public ! in Leningrad square alone. He killed Mostly Christians.

and for no other reason except it is true. Hitler was Jewish."


...and your point is?

[Suff]

Originally posted by wolsons
"

...and your point is?

which one? when I was demonstrating to a poster that ELECTED leaders are'nt always the better leader and that democracy has been diluted. Hitler was elected democratically. But soon after they annointed him a Dictator.. He was an elected leader, not a Dictator. The other fellow I named from Peru is another example of a failed democracy a Rogue leader elected by a popular vote.

Very odd characters have come to power in all ways... and the Leaders who came to power by circumstance rather than by virtue still accomplished great things and advanced Humanity.

During the Industrial revolution the Soviet Union was a Poster Child for modern day communism and socialism. The USSR was a Monster Society when Steel and Heavy Industry swept the world.

Hitler Jewness? Or crypto-jew they call it some times. We constantly study great leaders, rogue leaders, Serial Killers and the like. We attempt to Probe thier minds and see if we can figure out what drove them to behave they way they did.

The theory of Hitlers Jewness is jolting to the senses. It is certainly something that most jews don't want to be true or accept. Even though it is a Moot point as to relevance in many ways... Hitler was unable to produce the certificate of origin he required of every German citizen .

Many belive that sufficient facts exists to suggest that Hitler was Born in Austria by a jewish father.

[Figman]

From TIMESITE:
Dean & Kerry not very racing friendly.
http://tinyurl.com/3ahgm

[Tom]

I told you they were sons of batches!:mad:

[TenZin]

then you are saying the american people must be careful not to
lose their power or else some horrible ruler will take their rights
away while they are eating pancakes? my brother-in-law would
say it just right.