Fastest T-bred track?

[sq764]

What is the fastest t-bred track right now? I was just curious where Turf Paradise ranked.. I have seen a lot of 44 and changes halves.. Wondered if they were top 5 fastest..

[sjk]

For fastest adjusted 2nd call at 6 furlongs, my list starts:

Sac
Yav
Fno
Alb
Emd
SR
Tup
SA
Rui
Sol
GG

[GameTheory]

TUP is much faster than average, no doubt.

[Suff]

Woodbine Speedway on that list?

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Scott,

I would have to say Turf Pardise has to be one of them.

When I raced there my cheap claimer's run some

unbelieveable times .

Jimmy

[Zaf]

I always thought GG was the most greasy. :D

ZAFONIC

[Larry Hamilton]

I would like to know how you measure "fastest"

[Zaf]

I believe they are referring to raw times at the pace and final call.

ZAFONIC

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
I would like to know how you measure "fastest"


I believe Turf Paradise holds the record for a 5Fl race in North America. I went to there web site trying to confirm this
but I didnt see anything. It's going to drive me crazy now.
I'll post it in the morning after I toss and turn all night trying
to think of it .

Jimmy

[Zaf]

Yeah , 3K claimers can run 44's to the half and 109's on occasion.

ZAFONIC

[Dave Schwartz]

In my humble opinion that would be Yavapai. It is about 1 tick faster than TuP.

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[Suff]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
In my humble opinion that would be Yavapai. It is about 1 tick faster than TuP.

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Commercial message implys you paid something for the right to distribute it... .. Not simply that you have something to sell...

PA has a policy against outright advertisements. I don't want to get pitched your pars in General Handicapping threads.. .

PA, Would you consider deleting his PARS adverstisement please?

[Que]

My stats have the following 10 fastest tracks:

Sprints:
1. EMD
2. PLN
3. YAV
4. TUP
5. FNO
6. GG
7. SR
8. SAC
9. SOL
10. CNL

Routes:
1. PLN
2. EMD
3. BM
4. TUP
5. FNO
6. CNL
7. MED
8. LSB
9. GG
10. SUN

Que.

[shanta]

i have always found Pleasonton (pln) and Fresno (fno) to be the fastest (raw 2nd call and final time) in my experiences.

richie:rolleyes:

[sq764]

After seeing EMD in there, I can't say I have ever seen a race from there.. I thought I had seen all tracks, but I guess not.

[formula_2002]

Originally posted by sq764
What is the fastest t-bred track right now? I was just curious where Turf Paradise ranked.. I have seen a lot of 44 and changes halves.. Wondered if they were top 5 fastest..

lets take to the next level...
Which speed tracks produce a positive roi with speed horses..

[Larry Hamilton]

Sometimes the simplest questions ain't so simple. The question in the subject "Which track is the fastest?" is incomplete. At Least four more questions should be included: at which age and sex, at what distance, on which surface and at what class. It follows that the answer to that group of questions yeilds enough to calculate, as Dave suggests, the par numbers, best numbers, worst numbers, standard deviations and sample size. In addition some information may be gleaned about how 3yo's do in January as compared to December and how FTS do early in the year as compared to late in the year. This question is the essence of this game in that nothing is as easy as it seems.

[sq764]

ok, maybe since I am a harness guy, that question is from a harness perspective.. Harness tracks have speed ratings (Somewhat of an overall, comprehensive speed rating for all races run on the track for xxx period).. I thought t-bred tracks had the same.

[Larry Hamilton]

the only free, publicly-available, defineable rating I have seen for TBred tracks is average purse size. From which is derived track class. BRIS and TSN have a rating at the top of their ultimate sheet that rates the track by pace (E, EP, P and S) which they call BIAS, but frankly, that info is worthless because of either sample size or sample age.

Anyways, the hunt is part of the fun

[formula_2002]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
.....ultimate sheet that rates the track by pace (E, EP, P and S) which they call BIAS, but frankly, that info is worthless because of either sample size or sample age.

Anyways, the hunt is part of the fun

WOW, I think Larry and I agree!!

I was going to post the winning tracks where early speed(Bris's E) horses actually posted a positive roi, but the sample size was too small.
But then again, perhaps there is such a thing as replication without statistical significance

[Larry Hamilton]

The agreement is probably only superficial coincidence as I believe this game without statistics is wishing.

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
Sometimes the simplest questions ain't so simple. The question in the subject "Which track is the fastest?" is incomplete. At Least four more questions should be included: at which age and sex, at what distance, on which surface and at what class. It follows that the answer to that group of questions yeilds enough to calculate, as Dave suggests, the par numbers, best numbers, worst numbers, standard deviations and sample size. In addition some information may be gleaned about how 3yo's do in January as compared to December and how FTS do early in the year as compared to late in the year. This question is the essence of this game in that nothing is as easy as it seems.

While making subtle gradations of speed between similar tracks that run a different stock of horses is tough, figuring out which tracks are fastest and slowest in a broad sense becomes pretty clear when you start making pars.

Let's reframe the question: "Which tracks are the least/most energy-sapping and cause less/more deceleration over a distance of ground?" "Which tracks are easiest to run over?"

Since when comparing similar class levels between two tracks (or even identical horses that have run in both places), and times at Turf Paradise are significantly faster in every category, we can then say TUP is relatively fast, can we not? In other words, if you are comparing a time from TUP and a time from CRC, and they are equal, we can conclude that the CRC horse actually ran the better race (as far as time goes).

But to your larger point -- that the question is incomplete. EVERY question in horse racing analysis is incomplete. That's the beauty of it, and that's why we play...

[keilan]

Let's reframe the question: "Which tracks are the least/most energy-sapping and cause less/more deceleration over a distance of ground?" "Which tracks are easiest to run over?"

Bingo -- GT I couldn't agree more.

[Que]

My list still applies to the above question. My rankings were not based on running times alone, but were based on how shippers perform at various tracks compared to their previous tracks. I'm not saying my list is 100% accurate, or my list is necessary better than anyone else's list. However, I think my list is close enough for handicapping purposes--why by its nature is already a very inexact science. Also, I would venture to guess that if your track ratings are based solely on running times and track variants, then your list maybe scewed a bit towards tracks with a better class of horses.

Que.

[Larry Hamilton]

An expresion I learned many years ago in the "star wars" program.

We seem to be trying to measure with a micrometer what was marked with a grease pencil and cut with an ax.


Guilty!

[maxwell]

Woodbine was a bad joke last year. They slowed it down after a rash of van-offs.

Does anyone know the ratios of injuries at these "fast" tracks ? :confused:

[formula_2002]

Originally posted by maxwell
Woodbine was a bad joke last year. They slowed it down after a rash of van-offs.

Does anyone know the ratios of injuries at these "fast" tracks ? :confused:

for a comparison
Many years ago, in response to the heat Lukas was getting on the Prodigy BB for his horse breakdown rate, I found that the average breakdown rate was 1.6% (just happend that was the same rate that students were defaultiing on their school loans).
Lukas's rate was 1.3%.
Most likely it was the DNF rate.