Wierd money EMD

[wisconsin]

Race 6, 8/23

Someone wagered $100k on the :2: and then canceled the bet.

Horse almost won at 52-1.

[wisconsin]

Long, long wait for payoffs.....still not in.

[HuggingTheRail]

Race 6, 8/23

Someone wagered $100k on the :2: and then canceled the bet.

Horse almost won at 52-1.

A bridge jumper busted out earlier on the card as well....

[wisconsin]

A bridge jumper busted out earlier on the card as well....


And now a stewards payout hold per announcer "due to the dramatic and late wagering before the race".

[Stillriledup]

So, 80k was chasing this bet that came out at the last second? The normal win pool at EMD is what, 15-20k? I cant imagine too many people were happy having their life savings on Zippin E. Yikes.

[Shelby]

And now a stewards payout hold per announcer "due to the dramatic and late wagering before the race".

What does this mean? No payout at all?

[wisconsin]

What does this mean? No payout at all?

No, they paid out after a 10 minute delay. I have never heard an annoucer say what Robert Gellar said about looking into wagering right after a race while awaiting payouts.

[Shelby]

No, they paid out after a 10 minute delay. I have never heard an annoucer say what Robert Gellar said about looking into wagering right after a race while awaiting payouts.


Was it someone that was physically at the track, I wonder?

[johnhenry81]

horse must have had some extra place money also, as she only paid $6.60 to place for a 52/1 shot.

[lamboguy]

whats so weird about money going into and out of parimutuel pools? its been happening for at least the last 3 years, the tote company's and tracks do nothing about it.

[BombsAway Bob]

horse must have had some extra place money also, as she only paid $6.60 to place for a 52/1 shot.
Track~Emerald; Race#6;
-----------Horse----# 1 --#2---#3 --#4 --#5 ----#6 -------#7 ---#8
-----------Odds-----5/2 ---52 ---23 --6 -Scr-- --7/2 -------6/5 ---8
Win Pool $81,175~ 17326-1282 -2726 -9040 -- -13656 --30239 --6906
Place Pool $7,168~ -1222 -935 -279 ---729 ---- -1292 ---2184 ---527
Show Pool $5,053~ --636--546 -233 ---760 --- ---787 ---1587 ---504
Mutuel Pools (WPS) rounded:
6th: $93,000 -
5th: $33,000
4th: $33,000
3rd: $67,000
2nd: $33,000
1st: $16,000

[johnhenry81]

Thanks Bombsaway...

#2 had almost as much to place as to win, certainly "knowing" money money but hardly sinister.

[therussmeister]

http://www.drf.com/news/emerald-downs-bettor-makes-then-cancels-100k-wager

[spiketoo]

Well this explains it all. Kinda.

Emerald Downs: Bettor makes, then cancels $100K wager

DRF (http://www.drf.com/news/emerald-downs-bettor-makes-then-cancels-100k-wager)

[Stillriledup]

Right. They're always 'honest' mistakes, there's never any pool manipulation.

. Lets say that you personally saw this bet come in and saw all the other runners were huge longshots. Lets also say you decided to 'empty' your ADW into the race sensing a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity. Lets also say you lost an amount of money that's 'uncomfortable' for you to have lost. Here's my question. Does it matter to you if this situation is an honest mistake or a dishonest mistake? What's the difference.

[davew]

Does anyone know how robotic wagering programs get realtime access to wagering pools?

[Mr G]

Well this explains it all. Kinda.

Emerald Downs: Bettor makes, then cancels $100K wager

DRF (http://www.drf.com/news/emerald-downs-bettor-makes-then-cancels-100k-wager)

Who cares how much money the person has...they shouldn't allow cancelling of the bet due to the person being someone with a high net worth. I have a high net worth so if I open an account with XpressBet will I be able to make large wagers and then turn around and have them cancelled seconds before the horses take off due to how much money I am worth? :mad:

From the link

Ron Luniewski, the chief executive officer of XpressBet, said that the bettor was a “high net-worth individual who is new to racing” and who made an “honest mistake” by punching in the $100,000 bet. The bettor had meant to wager $1,000 to win on the horse, Luniewski said.

[Stillriledup]

Who cares how much money the person has...they shouldn't allow cancelling of the bet due to the person being someone with a high net worth. I have a high net worth so if I open an account with XpressBet will I be able to make large wagers and then turn around and have them cancelled seconds before the horses take off due to how much money I am worth? :mad:

From the link

Ron Luniewski, the chief executive officer of XpressBet, said that the bettor was a “high net-worth individual who is new to racing” and who made an “honest mistake” by punching in the $100,000 bet. The bettor had meant to wager $1,000 to win on the horse, Luniewski said.

Fantastic point, they're saying that because he's rich he's allowed to play in the pools like he's some bigshot.

I dont buy that it was an honest mistake, no bet operator is going to punch a bet for 100k if the bet was only 1k.

[therussmeister]

Who cares how much money the person has...they shouldn't allow cancelling of the bet due to the person being someone with a high net worth. I have a high net worth so if I open an account with XpressBet will I be able to make large wagers and then turn around and have them cancelled seconds before the horses take off due to how much money I am worth? :mad:

I don't see where they said, or even implied, that he was allowed to cancel due to his wealth. What is XpressBet's policy regarding cancellation of wagers?

[therussmeister]

Right. They're always 'honest' mistakes, there's never any pool manipulation.

. Lets say that you personally saw this bet come in and saw all the other runners were huge longshots. Lets also say you decided to 'empty' your ADW into the race sensing a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity. Lets also say you lost an amount of money that's 'uncomfortable' for you to have lost. Here's my question. Does it matter to you if this situation is an honest mistake or a dishonest mistake? What's the difference.

It doesn't matter, no difference; I would only be mad at myself for betting an amount that's 'uncomfortable' for me to lose. Regardless of whether the bet was cancelled or not you still risk losing that 'uncomfortable' amount.

[Stillriledup]

I don't see where they said, or even implied, that he was allowed to cancel due to his wealth. What is XpressBet's policy regarding cancellation of wagers?

I think that the idea that the head of Xpressbet even mentioned the guy's net worth was somehow implying that its ok because he's rich. To me, it doesnt matter if the guy is a billionaire or has 100k to his name, his 'wealth' has nothing to do with anything and shouldnt have even come up in the equasion.

Maybe they figured by saying he was very rich we would think that 100k to this guy is like a penny to us and it shouldnt be taken in the context of a 'large bet'. If he was a poor sap who scraped his last 100k together to bet Emerald, we might have viewed him or the situation differently.

Another thought might be that this guy is 'so rich' that he doesnt have to cheat....we might thing "aah, the guy is rich and new to the game, it must be a real mistake because why would a rich guy need to cheat"

They said he meant to bet 1k on the horse, but the horse only had 1,200 total in the pool....are we to believe that 1k of that was his and only 200 dollars total was bet from everyone else?

Does anyone here have Xpressbet? When you make a bet, does it ask you "are you sure you want to bet 100,000?"

[Stillriledup]

It doesn't matter, no difference; I would only be mad at myself for betting an amount that's 'uncomfortable' for me to lose. Regardless of whether the bet was cancelled or not you still risk losing that 'uncomfortable' amount.

If i told you to pick any NFL game you wanted and someone would book your bet and give you 30-1 odds, would you bet as much money as you could possibly scrape together even if it was incredibly nervewracking?

Most good bettors would empty the vault in a 'once in a lifetime' situation.

[davew]

I have XpressBet

There are options to confirm bet, or just see confirmed bet
the betting 'wager pad' only has a few amounts, so you need to manually enter any other- it says to enter in increments of $0.10

I checked about cancelling bets, nothing in terms but allows to cancel any bet not started in the 'my wagers' area- they also say they could close your account anytime they wanted to.

I could understand being confused with all those zeros, but have to wonder how many ADW accounts have enough deposited to handle a $100K bet.

[rastajenk]

Once upon a time he would have been called a big bettor. Now he's high worth. Probably has nothing to do with his net worth out there in the real world. But apparently he's worth something to Expressbet.

And he's new, too. Yeah, let's run him off as quick as we can. Then we can still bitch about the industry running customers off.

[takeout]

Does anyone know how robotic wagering programs get realtime access to wagering pools?Good question. And aren’t there a few tracks that don’t allow that? Anyone know which ones?

[Fox]

If i told you to pick any NFL game you wanted and someone would book your bet and give you 30-1 odds, would you bet as much money as you could possibly scrape together even if it was incredibly nervewracking?

Most good bettors would empty the vault in a 'once in a lifetime' situation.

Myself, I would smell a rat and pass as I would have if I had been watching the pool in this race at Emerald. Somethings are to good to be true.

[Stillriledup]

Myself, I would smell a rat and pass as I would have if I had been watching the pool in this race at Emerald. Somethings are to good to be true.

There was a race at Mountaineer a few months ago, maybe like 6 months ago, i dont remember the exact time frame but anyway, someone bet 25k to show on a horse who was 15-1 ML and looked like he should be 40-1, this was the worst horse in the race on paper by far and the money showed up early. I was skeptical, i thought "no way this bet is going to stay there, its coming out" but i waited and waited and when the horses were loading, the bet was still there...so, i pounded show on a few other horses and somehow, the bet stayed in the pool and the show prices ended up good when this horse finished far back.

I know what you're saying, if i had seen this bet at Emerald i would have waited till the very last second while having my bets ready in my mind and then tried to get them out right at the very end of the cycle. I probably would have missed this and ate a bunch of win bets i didnt want, hopefully i would have had enough on the winner to get my money back.

[PaceAdvantage]

Good question. And aren’t there a few tracks that don’t allow that? Anyone know which ones?We all have real time access to the wagering pools...it's called an ADW.

These guys just channel the information into a computer that's able to process the information more efficiently than you or I can by using our brains and our eyes.

You guys act as if they are getting streaming, tick-by-tick (to borrow a phrase from the stock market) updates...they aren't...

[takeout]

These guys just channel the information into a computer that's able to process the information more efficiently than you or I can by using our brains and our eyes.
Meaning the robotic wagering programs?

[PaceAdvantage]

Meaning the robotic wagering programs?Yes. I've written some (albeit crude compared to what they're using) myself for my own use.

[takeout]

I sure would like to hear a whole lot more details on this one. Probably would’ve been a better investigation if the horse had won. Would’ve been a helluva variation of a booster play.

I can envision all kinds of shenanigans taking place if ADW’s make a habit out of allowing large bets to be canceled seconds before a race starts.

Can’t help but wonder how long it will be before it’s just robot versus robot.

[showbet]

There was a race at Mountaineer a few months ago, maybe like 6 months ago, i dont remember the exact time frame but anyway, someone bet 25k to show on a horse who was 15-1 ML and looked like he should be 40-1, this was the worst horse in the race on paper by far and the money showed up early. I was skeptical, i thought "no way this bet is going to stay there, its coming out" but i waited and waited and when the horses were loading, the bet was still there...so, i pounded show on a few other horses and somehow, the bet stayed in the pool and the show prices ended up good when this horse finished far back.
It was the 6th race on May 6 of this year.

Something similar happened at River Downs last year (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84840).

[MightBeSosa]

You'd have to think it was some kind of mistake, not noticed, but who knows. The 25k bet makes no sense at all.

But you do see these things from time to time. There are many more insane bets that are in the exotic pools that don't get noticed.

[lamboguy]

It was the 6th race on May 6 of this year.

Something similar happened at River Downs last year (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84840).that's the work of the "great gambini". he's only been doing this for the last 40 years, he can't help himself.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Although I think there are definitely times when bets are made to influence the pools and odds (remember the Northern California racing scandal prior to commingling?), I don't see anything fishy here.

- "new" bettor explains the fat finger
- Xpressbet does have a menu that allows for placing a wager without confirmation
- noobie means to key in "1000.00", keystroke for decimal missed, ends up with $100K win bet
- "high net worth" description meant to only explain the $100+K in the account, which allows for this error
- "high net worth" description doesn't mean noobie gets an exemption to cancel, since this can be done online

Now if this noobie makes a trend of this kind of action, then it's time to get suspicious. Obviously with the quick reaction of the robots, this method allows for an easy way to inflate the odds on your selection by betting heavy late, canceling the bet, and placing a smaller, reasonable sized wager on the same horse.