Nonsense? I'm not convinced, Lance.

[Grits]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sports/cycling/lance-armstrong-ends-fight-against-doping-charges-losing-his-7-tour-de-france-titles.html?_r=1&smid=fb-nytimes

Its hard for me to believe Lance was clean. Really hard. Too many indicated otherwise. Sadly, he sounds more stubborn than believable.

“The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today — finished with this nonsense.”

[cj]

I don't think he was clean either. If for no other reason, I don't think a clean rider could beat all the cheaters. Still, I don't like that he was never caught testing. Testimony from those with an axe to grind should not be enough.

[PhantomOnTour]

I think he was riding dirty too, but who gets all those vacated titles?
The 2nd best doper?

[Dahoss2002]

I think he was riding dirty too, but who gets all those vacated titles?
The 2nd best doper?
I'm not sure how many and who, but some other podium finishers from his Tour victories have already been sanctioned and dqued. How many spots do you have to go back to declare winner?

[TJDave]

Caring what someone who wears spandex and rides a bicycle for a living does.

[JBmadera]

This entire situation is both fascinating and sad. The range of opinions, even within my team and especially within our jurisdiction (NCNCA) is as wide as the grand canyon, and boy the arguments are so emotional.

Just like in other sports and even horse racing there doesn't seem to be a way for the testers/doping authorities to get ahead of the cheaters. My guess is that they never will.

[PhantomOnTour]

Caring what someone who wears spandex and rides a bicycle for a living does.
Brilliant Dave :rolleyes:
I suppose if a jockey were the story we could wonder why we care about midgets in cute silk outfits who ride horsies for a living

[Robert Fischer]

there's only so much technique and willpower involved in sprinting uphill on a bicycle.

at some point it becomes physiological.


these drugs help significantly. I can't see how anyone could dominate such physiological sport while clean.

you make rules and limits , and whoever can beat the tests and has the most natural ability and technique wins.
The rest is BS for the sponsors...

[DJofSD]

Exactly how does the USADA have the scope or authority to get involved with the Tour de France? My quick reading shows me the org is for U.S. Olympic, Paralympic, Pan-American and ParaPan American sport.

[Greyfox]

Its hard for me to believe Lance was clean. Really hard. Too many indicated otherwise..

The Court of Public Opinion has been wrong before when numerous people lined up and charged someone.

[JBmadera]

Exactly how does the USADA have the scope or authority to get involved with the Tour de France? My quick reading shows me the org is for U.S. Olympic, Paralympic, Pan-American and ParaPan American sport.

The country where a rider is licensed governs all things doping related (if he had tested positive in a race the race organizers would toss him), since WADA has recognized USADA's findings then he will lose all titles won during the period covered by the adverse analytical finding (basically what they say when you've doped but haven't flunked a test)

[horses4courses]

I wonder if Sheryl Crow ever saw him puttin sumthin weird on his Cheerios? ;)

[Wagergirl]

"if it makes him happy.. it can't be that bad"

[Rise Over Run]

Obviously, lyrics like this drove him over the edge:

"Cause you can't change the way I am

Are you strong enough to be my man?

[KingChas]

Its hard for me to believe Lance was clean. Really hard. Too many indicated otherwise. Sadly, he sounds more stubborn than believable.

I do believe his capital is running out. ;) Time to punt.

[newtothegame]

I, like others here have a hard time believing he was clean the entire time. But, as another poster pointed out, court of opinion does not have jurisdiction in this case. Lance has been tested (I read) as much as any other athlete aroound in any sport. Never once has a guilty test been found that I am aware.
Living in a country that provides rights such as innocent until proven guilty sways me to agree with that.
It's sad he would have to continue to spend millions to keep his name clean when he was never actually PROVEN guilty. We can speculate all we want....but until proven, it is just that...specualtion.
:)

[PhantomOnTour]

Just heard on SkySportsNews that they would have to go all the way to the 5th place finisher for one of his Tour wins (to give the victory to) because the 3 guys behind Lance have all tested positive for banned substances :lol:

Ridiculous...just vacate the titles.
In almost every Tour de France win they would have to go to the 3rd place finisher or lower to award the victory to because almost all the 2nd place guys have subsequently been banned for doping.
And we think horseracing is dirty :D

[DJofSD]

Too bad the USADA doesn't have the authority to oversee T'bred racing.

[TexasDolly]

I guess I am willing to consider that all the riders were doping and in that case who gets the trophy. Seems like
a strong case could be made that Lance was the best ,proven or not.
TD

[maddog42]

I, like others here have a hard time believing he was clean the entire time. But, as another poster pointed out, court of opinion does not have jurisdiction in this case. Lance has been tested (I read) as much as any other athlete aroound in any sport. Never once has a guilty test been found that I am aware.
Living in a country that provides rights such as innocent until proven guilty sways me to agree with that.
It's sad he would have to continue to spend millions to keep his name clean when he was never actually PROVEN guilty. We can speculate all we want....but until proven, it is just that...specualtion.

:)

From the Wikipedia article on Lance:

In June 2012, the United States Anti-Doping Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Anti-Doping_Agency) officially charged Armstrong with doping and trafficking of drugs, based on blood samples from 2009 and 2010, and testimonies from other cyclists.

I would say they have proof against Lance. Although one test might be a false positive, I don't think 2 tests would be. There are at least 6 people that have came forward alleging drug use. This would probably stand up in a court of law.

[cj]

From the Wikipedia article on Lance:

In June 2012, the United States Anti-Doping Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Anti-Doping_Agency) officially charged Armstrong with doping and trafficking of drugs, based on blood samples from 2009 and 2010, and testimonies from other cyclists.

I would say they have proof against Lance. Although one test might be a false positive, I don't think 2 tests would be. There are at least 6 people that have came forward alleging drug use. This would probably stand up in a court of law.

He didn't win the tour in 2009 or 2010.

[DJofSD]

From the Wikipedia article on Lance:

In June 2012, the United States Anti-Doping Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Anti-Doping_Agency) officially charged Armstrong with doping and trafficking of drugs, based on blood samples from 2009 and 2010, and testimonies from other cyclists.

I would say they have proof against Lance. Although one test might be a false positive, I don't think 2 tests would be. There are at least 6 people that have came forward alleging drug use. This would probably stand up in a court of law.
Whether or not it would or would not stand up in a court of law is a matter of opinion until there is an actual trial. Let's see the proof, let's hear the testimony and enough of the innuendos. Insinuations without proof borders on slander.

Now, getting to trial and being able to defend yourself is probably not something he can afford.

[maddog42]

He didn't win the tour in 2009 or 2010.

Nobody said he did. He did test positive in other races.

[DJofSD]

Nobody said he did. He did test positive in other races.
No he did not according to this (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports/2012/0824/Lance-Armstrong-may-lose-Tour-titles-justice-for-doping-or-a-witch-hunt) online article.

Show us something that states otherwise.

[maddog42]

No he did not according to this (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports/2012/0824/Lance-Armstrong-may-lose-Tour-titles-justice-for-doping-or-a-witch-hunt) online article.

Show us something that states otherwise.

Armstrong never tested positive DURING his racing career. The positive results occurred after the races were over from frozen or preserved samples. This is stated in the article you supplied. At least this is what the USADA claims.





[/url]





[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong#cite_note-velonews050823-61"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong#cite_note-velonews050823-61)

[DJofSD]

Armstrong never tested positive DURING his racing career. The positive results occurred after the races were over from frozen or preserved samples. This is stated in the article you supplied. At least this is what the USADA claims.





[/url]





[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong#cite_note-velonews050823-61"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong#cite_note-velonews050823-61)

Do you mean this paragraph?
Armstrong has lived in the zone of suspicion for years, but a two-year federal probe in the US ended without charges in February. USADA, a taxpayer-funded federal agency created in 2000 to safeguard “true sport,” said in June it had new evidence, including drug-test results, from the past couple of years that suggest Armstrong has dabbled in illegal substances since ending his professional cycling career to become a triathlete.

If they have new evidence, let's see it. Otherwise, this is just a vendeta.

[maddog42]

I am a sucker for the underdog story. I mean it. This guy deserves some respect for his fight against Cancer and for his inspiration to others. I started out a big fan, and with some qualifications I still am. But the evidence ( and there is a lot) is overwhelming. I feel sorry for the guy.

[Greyfox]

But the evidence ( and there is a lot) is overwhelming. I feel sorry for the guy.

A lot of evidence?

Witnesses that have not been cross-examined in a Court of Law?

"Preserved blood samples?" negative when they were taken and now are positive?
What would a skilled Defence Lawyer make of that when supported by a couple of expert Scientific witnesses?

[PhantomOnTour]

A lot of evidence?

Witnesses that have not been cross-examined in a Court of Law?

"Preserved blood samples?" negative when they were taken and now are positive?
What would a skilled Defence Lawyer make of that when supported by a couple of expert Scientific witnesses?
'Negative then and positive now' may indicate a new test that caught substances the older tests didn't....???

[Greyfox]

'Negative then and positive now' may indicate a new test that caught substances the older tests didn't....???

It may. It may mean contamination of sample. It may mean a vendetta too.

[PhantomOnTour]

It may. It may mean contamination of sample. It may mean a vendetta too.
Agreed

[cj]

Like I said, I agree he is getting railroaded. Still, in the end, he almost assuredly cheated, so I don't feel very sorry for him.

When McGwire was hitting 70 HRs, it wasn't a clean player he was nosing out. It was another cheater. The odds Lance beat those other cheaters so easily AND was clean are slim and none...make that none.

[bigmack]

When the +-10 others stepped forward to testify he had juiced it was like Clinton learning Lewski saved the blue dress complete with monkey spunk.

The gig was upski.

Shame on him for one huge lie.

[Dahoss2002]

Whether or not it would or would not stand up in a court of law is a matter of opinion until there is an actual trial. Let's see the proof, let's hear the testimony and enough of the innuendos. Insinuations without proof borders on slander.

Now, getting to trial and being able to defend yourself is probably not something he can afford.
So far his former director Johan Brunyeel is still planning on arbitration. If he goes through with it you will see some of the teamates of Lance testify as to what went on on the U.S postal team. The "charitable" donations to the UCI that governs cycling. Now thats who I'd really like to see go to arbitration.


"In May 2002, Armstrong and his wife gave a personal check for $25,000 to the UCI. In 2005, Armstrong donated another $100,000, this time through his management company, Capital Sports and Entertainment.
Those donations have haunted both Armstrong and the organization in recent years, and UCI president Pat McQuaid has admitted that accepting them might have been a mistake."

Read more at http://www.autoworldnews.com/articles/2269/20120824/lance-armstrong-doping-case-cyclist-donated-to-organization-that-was-drug-testing-him.htm#C6rsLTYCpJlS9QoP.99

[Rookies]

Like I said, I agree he is getting railroaded. Still, in the end, he almost assuredly cheated, so I don't feel very sorry for him.

When McGwire was hitting 70 HRs, it wasn't a clean player he was nosing out. It was another cheater. The odds Lance beat those other cheaters so easily AND was clean are slim and none...make that none.

Agree here. I don't like slamming someone without the evidence, but it appeared that this was coming before Armstrong gave it up.

It appears that there was both evidence AND the knives were out for him personally. Beyond the smell test that he did what he did. He must have had top chemists.

[Greyfox]

There is a new book coming out in mid September which promises to spill the beans on Lance and the Postal Service team.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Race-Cover-ups-ebook/dp/B008WOUJQG

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416qNS2ZTUL._AA278_PIkin4,BottomRight,-48,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B008WOUJQG/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=133140011&s=digital-text)

[maddog42]

The only way to test clean is to have an unknown drug that is not being tested for or have blood transfusions. A new test that tests for plastic residue
(from transfusion bags) has been developed. There seems to be a lot of plastic residue in cyclists blood. This is causing a lot of people to get nervous,
and not just cyclists....

[DJofSD]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/07/armstrong-banned-from-chicago-marathon/