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View Full Version : Augusta National opens membership to women


DJofSD
08-20-2012, 11:26 AM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GLF_AUGUSTA_NATIONAL_WOMEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-20-11-00-47

First two women members: Condi Rice and Darla Moore.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 11:40 AM
Oh my......

Plenty of things can happen when the appropriate nuts are put in a vise. :lol:

Seems 80%+ of pollsters here disagree:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93049&highlight=Augusta

cj
08-20-2012, 12:20 PM
Oh my......

Plenty of things can happen when the appropriate nuts are put in a vise. :lol:

Seems 80%+ of pollsters here disagree:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93049&highlight=Augusta

80% didn't say they disagree. They said Augusta can do what it wants.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 12:27 PM
80% didn't say they disagree. They said Augusta can do what it wants.

Exactly.
They were asked if Augusta National should open it's membership to women.
Change, or status quo. Easy choice.

DJofSD
08-20-2012, 12:28 PM
80% didn't say they disagree. They said Augusta can do what it wants.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Sorry, but, most polls, like the one referenced in this thread, have poorly written captions. I tend to believe that 80% were reponding to the "they can do what they want" part and not stating, no, they should not allow women.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 12:33 PM
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Sorry, but, most polls, like the one referenced in this thread, have poorly written captions. I tend to believe that 80% were reponding to the "they can do what they want" part and not stating, no, they should not allow women.

Well, I'm so sorry. Please excuse my poor writing.

You really think the results would be different if it were a simple "yes" or "no"?
I very much doubt it.

GameTheory
08-20-2012, 12:59 PM
Well, I'm so sorry. Please excuse my poor writing.

You really think the results would be different if it were a simple "yes" or "no"?
I very much doubt it.Absolutely the results would be different. They are two entirely different questions. You think "Augusta has the right to make its own policies" and "Augusta shouldn't allow women -- ever!" are the same thing? Talk about muddled thinking...

Greyfox
08-20-2012, 01:01 PM
There goes the neighborhood.

Just kidding of course. It's a smart move for Augusta.

Of course Martha Burk of the National Council of Women's Organizations is crowing this morning:

"Oh my God. We won. It's about 10 years too late for the boys to come into the 20th century, never mind the 21st century. But it's a milestone for women in business."

So there's one plank out of Martha's soap box.
She had her 15 minutes of fame in the sun, let's hope that's it.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 01:05 PM
Absolutely the results would be different. They are two entirely different questions. You think "Augusta has the right to make its own policies" and "Augusta shouldn't allow women -- ever!" are the same thing? Talk about muddled thinking...

They are one and the same.
If Augusta National were allowed to do what they want, there would be no women members.

They have already been through the ringer on race and religion.
Pretty easy to know where they would be on that one, too, given the choice.

PaceAdvantage
08-20-2012, 01:16 PM
You really think the results would be different if it were a simple "yes" or "no"?
I very much doubt it.Of course they would be different. And they most certainly are NOT one and the same.

How many articles have been written about how important the wording of a poll is when trying not to "swing" results one way or another?

This is polling 101.

But you are free to ignorantly continue thinking all those who responded the way they did to your flawed poll are misogynists.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 01:22 PM
Of course they would be different. And they most certainly are NOT one and the same.

How many articles have been written about how important the wording of a poll is when trying not to "swing" results one way or another?

This is polling 101.

But you are free to ignorantly continue thinking all those who responded the way they did to your flawed poll are misogynists.

This poor writer puts it down to poor reading.

I wouldn't interpret the results as hatred towards women.
Perhaps, a tolerance of an archaic institution, and those in charge.

DJofSD
08-20-2012, 01:34 PM
There goes the neighborhood.

Just kidding of course. It's a smart move for Augusta.

Of course Martha Burk of the National Council of Women's Organizations is crowing this morning:

"Oh my God. We won. It's about 10 years too late for the boys to come into the 20th century, never mind the 21st century. But it's a milestone for women in business."

So there's one plank out of Martha's soap box.
She had her 15 minutes of fame in the sun, let's hope that's it.
The Chinese say a journey begins with one step. They don't say anything about how long the trip takes.

I'm sure there are those which feel Augusta National should have had a knee-jerk response to allowing minorites and women by changing their policies immediately. Perhaps they should have. But, at least, now, the change is in place.

GameTheory
08-20-2012, 01:47 PM
They are one and the same.
If Augusta National were allowed to do what they want, there would be no women members.

They have already been through the ringer on race and religion.
Pretty easy to know where they would be on that one, too, given the choice.More muddled thinking. Your original poll was badly conceived because it read as if you were asking whether or not they should essentially be forced to admit women against their will. I know I read it and answered that way myself -- NO, they should not. This has nothing to do with whether I agree with their preference to deny women, simply an affirmation of their right to do so. If your question was purely about whether we (the poll respondents) shared that same preference then you should have left the bit off about "they have the right to do what they please" and also added a "who cares?" option since I don't think any of us have a stake in it or not. If you had done that, I know I would have answered differently. I would then solidly be in the "who cares?" category, but if given just "Allow Women?" yes or no then I would have voted yes -- allow them.

But you made the question about rights and that's completely different, and so the answers you got were completely different from the question you apparently really wanted to ask, and that's what we are telling you now.

Why argue? Make a new poll with a clear question if you are wondering...

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 02:16 PM
More muddled thinking. Your original poll was badly conceived because it read as if you were asking whether or not they should essentially be forced to admit women against their will. I know I read it and answered that way myself -- NO, they should not. This has nothing to do with whether I agree with their preference to deny women, simply an affirmation of their right to do so. If your question was purely about whether we (the poll respondents) shared that same preference then you should have left the bit off about "they have the right to do what they please" and also added a "who cares?" option since I don't think any of us have a stake in it or not. If you had done that, I know I would have answered differently. I would then solidly be in the "who cares?" category, but if given just "Allow Women?" yes or no then I would have voted yes -- allow them.

But you made the question about rights and that's completely different, and so the answers you got were completely different from the question you apparently really wanted to ask, and that's what we are telling you now.

Why argue? Make a new poll with a clear question if you are wondering...

I take your point, and appreciate how you put it across.
As I stated above, I don't believe anyone voted as they did to be spiteful towards women.
They simply believe the club has a right to do whatever.

There's no point in doing another poll.
It's water under the bridge now.

What I expect to happen over time is the revelation as to how this change came about at Augusta National.
Not making a simple gesture such as awarding a green jacket to female IBM CEO, Ginny Rometty, obviously had ramifications.
Money talks.....

Saratoga_Mike
08-20-2012, 02:19 PM
This poor writer puts it down to poor reading.

I wouldn't interpret the results as hatred towards women.
Perhaps, a tolerance of an archaic institution, and those in charge.

Why? What you wrote was unclear - not a big deal.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 02:39 PM
Why? What you wrote was unclear - not a big deal.

You're right, it's not a big deal.

However, if you read everything written in the poll, the choice is clear.
If you only read "No - Augusta National has the right to do as it pleases", then you would base your choice on that statement alone.

I made the assumption that Augusta National doing as it pleases means no change.
Let's face it, admitting women members is not something they would choose to do without some outside pressure.

TJDave
08-20-2012, 02:46 PM
First two women members: Condi Rice and Darla Moore.

Damn, I was hoping it would be my wife and my buddy's wife.

cj
08-20-2012, 02:47 PM
You're right, it's not a big deal.

However, if you read everything written in the poll, the choice is clear.
If you only read "No - Augusta National has the right to do as it pleases", then you would base your choice on that statement alone.

I made the assumption that Augusta National doing as it pleases means no change.
Let's face it, admitting women members is not something they would choose to do without some outside pressure.

That is a bad assumption. They obviously wanted to do it, or they wouldn't have. Maybe they finally stepped into the 80s.

DJofSD
08-20-2012, 02:51 PM
Damn, I was hoping it would be my wife and my buddy's wife.
:lol:

PhantomOnTour
08-20-2012, 02:53 PM
They admitted women, but will they accomodate them?
Wonder if a laides' locker room will be built

Greyfox
08-20-2012, 02:58 PM
They admitted women, but will they accomodate them?
Wonder if a laides' locker room will be built

What's a laides locker room?

What's wrong with the lad's locker room? That's equality.;)

TJDave
08-20-2012, 03:23 PM
They admitted women, but will they accomodate them?


Augusta is an equity club so the members actually own it. These women will pay for their privileges and I'd expect they'll get what they pay for.

horses4courses
08-20-2012, 03:32 PM
That is a bad assumption. They obviously wanted to do it, or they wouldn't have.

Can't agree with you there.
They were so strongly against such change for so long, it's hard to believe that their officials suddenly had a change of heart.

1st time lasix
08-20-2012, 03:37 PM
the both just became-- perfect "tens"

cj
08-20-2012, 03:54 PM
Can't agree with you there.
They were so strongly against such change for so long, it's hard to believe that their officials suddenly had a change of heart.

Who said it was sudden? This has been an issue for a decade. I'm sure pressure from outside had something to do with it. Maybe they realized how stupid they were being.

JustRalph
08-20-2012, 05:59 PM
Doesn't Condi live in California?

I also heard that she is very good at the game. How often does she make that flight to pay?

TexasDolly
08-20-2012, 07:11 PM
Quote
"Who said it was sudden? This has been an issue for a decade. I'm sure pressure from outside had something to do with it. Maybe they realized how stupid they were being."


__________________
What's stupid about having a private club anyway ? And just how can they benefit by having women members ?

GameTheory
08-20-2012, 07:54 PM
They admitted women, but will they accomodate them?
Wonder if a laides' locker room will be builtWomen could already play golf there, just couldn't be members.

bigmack
08-20-2012, 08:10 PM
What a gyp. Only 300 memberships available and they punch in a couple of token chicks. Women are takin' over man's world.

NJ Stinks
08-20-2012, 08:22 PM
What a gyp. Only 300 memberships available and they punch in a couple of token chicks. Women are takin' over man's world.

Where have you been, BigMack? You were conspicuous by your absence! :)

My two cents. I wouldn't want to join a women's club. I don't get the need. Same with this.

GameTheory
08-20-2012, 08:40 PM
Where have you been, BigMack? You were conspicuous by your absence! :)

My two cents. I wouldn't want to join a women's club. I don't get the need. Same with this.The argument is that these are places to network and get ahead in business and women are being shut out. They should let in only conservative women just to annoy the liberal protestors. Does Sarah Palin play golf?

cj's dad
08-20-2012, 09:58 PM
Where have you been, BigMack? You were conspicuous by your absence! :)

My two cents. I wouldn't want to join a women's club. I don't get the need. Same with this.

One of only a few things you and I have agreed on.

Then again I did want to join the Campfire Girls when my future wife was a member

newtothegame
08-20-2012, 10:43 PM
Quote
"Who said it was sudden? This has been an issue for a decade. I'm sure pressure from outside had something to do with it. Maybe they realized how stupid they were being."


__________________
What's stupid about having a private club anyway ? And just how can they benefit by having women members ?
how about additional events like maybe those on the LPGA, increased sponsors....yeah, seems they have something to gain.

Striker
08-20-2012, 11:23 PM
The timing of this seems a little related to all the talk about IBM's new CEO Virginia Rometty, since IBM is a large sponsor of the Masters. Can we expect to see her next on the membership list?

TexasDolly
08-21-2012, 07:13 AM
how about additional events like maybe those on the LPGA, increased sponsors....yeah, seems they have something to gain.

They can certainly hold an LPGA event without women members.
As far as the money I'll quote Hootie Johnson's reply when asked by a reporter "How long can you continue to have this event without sponsors Mr. Johnson " to which Hootie
replied "Indefinitely."

DJofSD
08-21-2012, 10:45 AM
Does any one believe Augusta National was bullied into changing their membership policy?

cj
08-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Does any one believe Augusta National was bullied into changing their membership policy?

No, and that is my point. They chose to do it.

horses4courses
08-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Does any one believe Augusta National was bullied into changing their membership policy?

Yes.
I'm not sure that there will ever be any proof of this, but I have to believe that outside pressure brought this change about.

TJDave
08-21-2012, 03:36 PM
Yes.
I'm not sure that there will ever be any proof of this, but I have to believe that outside pressure brought this change about.

If you saw the membership list you would change your mind. Outside pressure doesn't bother these folks. They are the 1% of the 1%.

johnhannibalsmith
08-22-2012, 11:38 AM
When are they going to allow rif-raf blue-collar duffs? I am feeling persecuted.

DJofSD
08-22-2012, 11:40 AM
Since when is being ignored the same as persecuted?