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View Full Version : Jan Brewer stands up to Obama


JustRalph
08-15-2012, 11:38 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57494259/ariz-governor-jan-brewer-stirs-a-new-immigration-policy-controversy/

No dream act in Arizona

ElKabong
08-15-2012, 11:39 PM
:ThmbUp:

fast4522
08-16-2012, 06:05 AM
Hope your move went smooth Ralph, this one is for you.
That Governor is one feisty lady, I like that.

Actor
08-16-2012, 06:24 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57494259/ariz-governor-jan-brewer-stirs-a-new-immigration-policy-controversy/

No dream act in ArizonaThe ACLU is on the case!!

cj's dad
08-16-2012, 08:20 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57494259/ariz-governor-jan-brewer-stirs-a-new-immigration-policy-controversy/

No dream act in Arizona

We lucky:rolleyes: souls in the Peoples Republic of Maryland have the dream act on the ballot in November by referendum.

Also on the ballot by referendum:

1- Gay marriage

2- Gerrymandering - 2 republican US Reps. have had their districts carved up in such a way as to make their winning again nearly impossible.

3- Another casino at the National Harbor in DC. This is 20 minutes from Arundel Mills Mall and the new casino which just opened in June.

You and the wife escaped in the nick of time !!

newtothegame
08-16-2012, 08:22 AM
The ACLU is on the case!!
Hope they got plenty of staff....a judge in PA just ruled it's ok to make voters have ID's.........:lol:

Actor
08-16-2012, 08:36 AM
Hope they got plenty of staff....a judge in PA just ruled it's ok to make voters have ID's.........:lol:That's being appealed. According to their web site they have a budget of $100,000,000 per year.

Tom
08-16-2012, 09:40 AM
The ACLU is on the case!!

Like roaches on cake crumbs.
What else would they be doing bu working to undermine they country?

Fast...Dear Mr. President...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Pic of the YEAR!!!!

Actor
08-16-2012, 04:18 PM
Like roaches on cake crumbs.
What else would they be doing bu working to undermine they country?

Fast...Dear Mr. President...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Pic of the YEAR!!!!Was filing an amicus brief in Brown vs. Board of Education "working to undermine the country?"

What, exactly, have they done that undermines the country? Specifics please. No unsupported generalities.

Tom
08-16-2012, 05:46 PM
Was filing an amicus brief in Brown vs. Board of Education "working to undermine the country?"

What, exactly, have they done that undermines the country? Specifics please. No unsupported generalities.


I'm not saying anything, just pointing out a fact. I'll leave it to others to figure out what the effect is.

TJDave
08-16-2012, 06:17 PM
They're so cute.

Just like Orville and George. They stood up...and when told, sat down.

Actor
08-16-2012, 08:36 PM
I'm not saying anything, just pointing out a fact. I'll leave it to others to figure out what the effect is.You stated an opinion, not a fact. There is a difference.

I'll give you one point for attempted humor. :ThmbUp:

Tom
08-16-2012, 08:46 PM
I quoted YOU. :rolleyes:

Any attempt by that ACLU to uphold this ridiculous move by the traitor Obama is unacceptable. Theses peopoe hab NO RIGHT to driver's licences or to any form of welfare handouts. They are here illegally and they are NOT citizens. They need to be sent home. end of story. If YOU think they deserve to stay. YOU pay for them, not me.

Hats off to Arizona for having the balls to stand up and represent real Americans.

Actor
08-16-2012, 09:20 PM
I quoted YOU. :rolleyes:I know you quoted me. But out of context.

Any attempt by that ACLU to uphold this ridiculous move by the traitor Obama is unacceptable. Theses peopoe hab NO RIGHT to driver's licences or to any form of welfare handouts. They are here illegally and they are NOT citizens. They need to be sent home. end of story. If YOU think they deserve to stay. YOU pay for them, not me.

Hats off to Arizona for having the balls to stand up and represent real Americans.It's up to the courts, not the ACLU, to uphold or not. The ACLU and the people they represent have a right to due process. Denial of due process is unacceptable.

PaceAdvantage
08-16-2012, 09:23 PM
Due process is guaranteed to citizens of the United States of America via the Constitution. Non-citizens...not so much...

Speaking of which, is Guantanamo Bay still open? Didn't Obama promise to close that place? And didn't Obama supporters criticize George W. Bush to no end about this facility?

Odd.

wisconsin
08-16-2012, 09:27 PM
I don't see where the ACLU has anything to say on this matter. This free ride for illegal aliens must stop now.

If not Jan, then who? Where would it end? Once WE are the minority, then what?

Tom
08-16-2012, 09:37 PM
The ACLU and the people they represent have a right to due process. Denial of due process is unacceptable.

The only due process being denied here is the POS POTUS over-stepping his authority for the sole purpose of ensuring enough illegal votes to keep his party of traitors in office. The REAL citizens, those who the constitution protects, are having their rights denied by this.

JustRalph
08-16-2012, 10:29 PM
Due process is guaranteed to citizens of the United States of America via the Constitution. Non-citizens...not so much


Funny how liberals keep forgetting this.

Actor
08-17-2012, 12:11 AM
I don't see where the ACLU has anything to say on this matter. This free ride for illegal aliens must stop now.

If not Jan, then who? Where would it end? Once WE are the minority, then what?
Who is the "WE" you refer to?

newtothegame
08-17-2012, 01:01 AM
Who is the "WE" you refer to?
I will help answer your troll question....
those legally here and citizens versus those not!!!
I know that wasn't what you were looking for but oh well......:lol:

Actor
08-17-2012, 01:10 AM
...the traitor Obama is...
From the Constitution:

Section 3
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
How has Obama levied war against the United States? How has he given our enemies aid and comfort? Where are your two witnesses?

johnhannibalsmith
08-17-2012, 01:26 AM
From the Constitution:


How has Obama levied war against the United States? How has he given our enemies aid and comfort? Where are your two witnesses?

The word "traitor" needn't imply an act of treason.

Actor
08-17-2012, 01:43 AM
The word "traitor" needn't imply an act of treason.I submit that it does when applied to the President of the United States.

johnhannibalsmith
08-17-2012, 01:54 AM
I submit that it does when applied to the President of the United States.

If you say so.

fast4522
08-17-2012, 05:09 AM
In my mind if we have 20 million or even more illegal aliens living here we should just deport as many as we can find. People forget the real cost to our school, health, and other systems that we all have to pay for. Just how congested are your highways, and how many extra million gallons of gas are consumed by illegals who also drive. Less consumption means lower prices at the pump plus less emissions to our air, that is green right? When you figure in total cost it becomes a huge number that means less taxes to everyone here because less is spent across the board. Why is it when times are tough politicians look to spend more instead of looking for real ways to cut to serve the taxpayer they represent? The Governor of Arizona is a perfect example of a true American and a role model.

delayjf
08-17-2012, 09:11 AM
Illegals are captured, identified as Illegal, and deported - that's due process

wisconsin
08-17-2012, 10:57 AM
Who is the "WE" you refer to?


Really?

WE are the legal residents. But hey, open your bleeding heart to all. Do you own property? How about random people just start living on it and using your facilities and resources. Now do you get the picture?

This is not to be confuesd with LEGAL immigrants (like an invited guest using your property). This nation has an immigration process. Get it?

mostpost
08-17-2012, 12:27 PM
Due process is guaranteed to citizens of the United States of America via the Constitution. Non-citizens...not so much...
Two clauses of the Constitution deal with due process; the fifth amendment and the fourteenth amendment.

The fifth amendment reads:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Take careful note of the words I have bolded. PERSON. Not citizen. PERSON!

Fourteenth amendment:
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
What is the key word? PERSON!

It is just nonsense to say the constitution of the United States does not apply to non-citizens.

mostpost
08-17-2012, 12:31 PM
Who is the "WE" you refer to?
I think the correct punch line is, "What you mean "WE," white man?

wisconsin
08-17-2012, 02:00 PM
I think the correct punch line is, "What you mean "WE," white man?

Then you would be wrong again. Don't you ever pin the racist line on me, not ever. :mad:

I do not have any issue with LEGAL immigrants. They are what built this country.

wisconsin
08-17-2012, 02:02 PM
Two clauses of the Constitution deal with due process; the fifth amendment and the fourteenth amendment.

The fifth amendment reads:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Take careful note of the words I have bolded. PERSON. Not citizen. PERSON!

Fourteenth amendment:
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
What is the key word? PERSON!

It is just nonsense to say the constitution of the United States does not apply to non-citizens.


Does anyone here actually believe the Constitution was written for anyone other than citizens of the United Sates? C'mon, man. Seriously?

GaryG
08-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Not long ago they were Illegal Aliens.....now they are merely undocumented residents. The only reasons liberals are making such a fuss is that not only will they be democrats but they will probably be provided with several alter egos for voting purposes. The border should be lined with armed agents in towere to shoot them as soon as they step out of the river, over the fence or through the sagebrush.

mostpost
08-17-2012, 02:49 PM
Then you would be wrong again. Don't you ever pin the racist line on me, not ever. :mad:

I do not have any issue with LEGAL immigrants. They are what built this country.
The Lone Ranger and Tonto were under attack by Indians. As the attack continued the Lone Ranger said, "Tonto, I'm almost out of ammo and see more Indians coming this way. We are in real trouble here."
Tonto replied, "What you mean "We", white man.
I can't believe you never heard that one.
Anyway I was responding to Actor. Maybe he got the joke. He's more liberal.

johnhannibalsmith
08-17-2012, 02:59 PM
Does anyone here actually believe the Constitution was written for anyone other than citizens of the United Sates? C'mon, man. Seriously?

This is one of those things that has been bantered about a lot. Mostpost took one side, unfortunately using a completely oversimplistic method of getting there.

Had he wanted to make the point a little better, the usual method is to point out that the bill of rights (since in this case we are talking about due process and 5th amendment protections) is actually a restriction on the powers of the federal government and not an affirmative bestowed to a group of people, citizens or not. So, basically, since the first through tenth amendments do not actually state that "here citizens, this is what you may do...", but rather it states that, "hey Feds, here's what you cannot do..." - and as an example they would use the very issue of determining citizenship in the first place - you mustn't assume that someone is not a citizen, but you must have a hearing/trial/whatever which affords the person due process in establishing citizenship (or not), then it stands to reason that the bill of rights is, in fact, just by nature of going through the mechanics of determining status of citizenship, applying to all people within the borders - or more accurately, restricting equally the powers of the federal government on all people within the borders.

The other side simply points out that very clearly, from the gitgo, the preamble states "We the people of the United States of America..." and that the implication is clearly that "the people" of the USA are its citizens and that all following references to the words "people" reference this original usage. Furthermore, the bill of rights is an amendment to that document, so it and all other amendments to the original document were intended to share in that implied definition.

Not going to take a side, but if you are wondering if people ACTUALLY believe that the Constitution, or elements therein, apply to non-citizens then the answer is - yes - you can probably find some ACLU battles over this out there in cyberspace. This fight has been fought before on a number of issues.

mostpost
08-17-2012, 02:59 PM
Does anyone here actually believe the Constitution was written for anyone other than citizens of the United Sates? C'mon, man. Seriously?

Yes, there are those here who believe exactly that. There are those elsewhere who believe the same.For example, members of three different Supreme Courts.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/illegalrights.htm

That's just from about dot com. I'm sure there have been many lower court decisions affirming the same thing.

TJDave
08-17-2012, 03:05 PM
Does anyone here actually believe the Constitution was written for anyone other than citizens of the United Sates? C'mon, man. Seriously?

Do you think our justice system only applies to citizens?

Seriously?

wisconsin
08-17-2012, 03:43 PM
Do you think our justice system only applies to citizens?

Seriously?


Nope, guess not. Let's just open the boarders right now.

PaceAdvantage
08-17-2012, 03:56 PM
Do you think our justice system only applies to citizens?

Seriously?Are you saying the Constitution GUARANTEES all these rights to NON-CITIZENS?

I didn't say it can't ever or shouldn't ever be applied to NON-CITIZENS. I used the word GUARANTEE.

NON-CITIZENS, unless accused of a serious felony, should simply be deported when arrested on minor crimes. They have no need for the justice system.

TJDave
08-17-2012, 04:25 PM
Are you saying the Constitution GUARANTEES all these rights to NON-CITIZENS?


ABSOLUTELY

And the Supremes say so, excepting rights specifically reserved for citizens...voting and qualifications to run for public office.

The court has repeatedly ruled that the due process clause applies to all persons within the United States regardless of status, including aliens, legal or illegal.

sammy the sage
08-17-2012, 04:31 PM
I wonder WTH the American Indians/Eskimos think of ALL this...well their fore-fathers must be rolling over and howling in their graves :faint:

JustRalph
08-17-2012, 07:38 PM
ABSOLUTELY

And the Supremes say so, excepting rights specifically reserved for citizens...voting and qualifications to run for public office.

The court has repeatedly ruled that the due process clause applies to all persons within the United States regardless of status, including aliens, legal or illegal.

It's been a long standing argument. Lower courts have ruled both ways. As usual jurisdiction is everything. The government uses both sides of the argument to their advantage, when they need to. Ask the boat people who were returned to Cuba and Haiti back in the 80's and early 90’s if they received due process when they were turned back over to their governments mostly within 48 hours, and some within the same day as arrival.

There are some guys down at Gitmo that have used this same argument and Obama continues to hold them. So much for court cases.

delayjf
08-18-2012, 06:40 PM
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
What is the key word? PERSON!

Deportation hearings are "due process"

Actor
08-18-2012, 07:42 PM
Deportation hearings are "due process"Agreed. If those facing deportation get a fair and impartial hearing, then the Constitution has been upheld. :ThmbUp:

And if the hearing is really fair and impartial, what's wrong with the ACLU representing them?

Tom
08-18-2012, 07:45 PM
Do you think our justice system only applies to citizens?

Seriously?

Yes.
Do you think Canadians should be bound by our laws?

TJDave
08-18-2012, 09:48 PM
Yes.
Do you think Canadians should be bound by our laws?

When in our country, Canadians are bound by our Laws...

And our constitutional protections. Same goes for all foreigners.



Except Mexicans, of course.

Tom
08-19-2012, 11:41 AM
Not if they are here legally.
You seem to keep missing that small detail.
Canadians don't sneak over the border.

You know what you call a Mexican who came here legally?

A citizen.
And welcome.

TJDave
08-19-2012, 04:03 PM
Not if they are here legally.
You seem to keep missing that small detail.
Canadians don't sneak over the border.


No. As recently as 2001 (Zadvydas v Davis) the court ruled due process applies to all aliens, even those here illegally.

Tom
08-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Deportation is due process.

delayjf
08-19-2012, 05:51 PM
And due process does not necessaryly mean a trial. If they go through the process and it is determined that they are illegal and they cannot prove otherwise, then they are deported.

Actor
08-19-2012, 08:09 PM
And due process does not necessaryly mean a trial. If they go through the process and it is determined that they are illegal and they cannot prove otherwise, then they are deported.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092690/