Dr Hansen claims Eddie Martin on Hero of Order took Hansen for a ride in the WV Derby

[Quesmark]

Sour grapes,or a conspiracy of some sort?Was something shady going on in this race:

Was HANSEN unethically targeted by HERO OF ORDER connections in West Virginia Derby??
August 14, 2012 by Dr. Kendall Hansen · 1 Comment

Hello Hansen blog readers. I would appreciate help to analyze the West Virginia Derby and your opinions. Information has come to my attention that is atypical for horse racing, especially in graded stakes events. There seems to be some evidence that the HERO OF ORDER jockey had instructions to match Hansen stride for stride as long as he could and that this was not an unintentional speed duel.

Excerpt from and more at:
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/ (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/)

[cj]

Ridiculous. Maybe he shouldn't paint his horse different colors if he doesn't want to be a target, but when you are 1 to 9 that is going to happen anyway.

[Saratoga_Mike]

"...this was not an unintentional speed duel."

Dr Hansen has cracked this case wide open...what a sleuth...is he also looking into Smarty Jone's lose in the Belmont?

[Robert Fischer]

more Hansen Girls

less of this

[johnhannibalsmith]

...I would appreciate help...

You need it.

[ArlJim78]

nobody likes a poor loser Dr Hansen, grow a pair and shut up.
if you thought your horse was going to easily win 9 furlong races well you were wrong. get over it.

[ten2oneormore]

Isn't that the same way Hero Of Order won the LA Derby?He pressed the pacesetter through a pretty good pace and somehow still ran on while the pace setter finished dead last.

[Stillriledup]

WOW talk about sour grapes....or, sour BLUEberries. :( :( :( :( :(

[Tom]

Wow.
The third rate 3yo whines about the 4th rate 3yo playing hard ball.
Perhaps the great Hansen would enjoy a merry-go-round! :lol:

[5k-claim]

This whole thing is starting to remind me of watching someone getting spun around the wrong way on a bumper cars ride and then helplessly getting pounded by all of the other drivers before finally just driving himself straight into a wall. And then sitting there stuck against the wall for the last few minutes of the ride while everyone else is still going.

And then the power is turned off.

[Quesmark]

Dr Hansen had accepted his namesakes defeat in the WV Derby,then he spoke to
jockey Mike Smith.... :

3) A few days later I talked with Mike Smith on the phone. I had accepted the defeat and wrote it off to a typical speed dual. However things were not making sense.

The most telling information came when Mike Smith told me: HERO OF ORDERS jockey, E M Martin, Jr. said: "Sorry, I had to do it", put his head down and walked away.

From:
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/ (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/)

[Quesmark]

Responding to a comment on his blog,Dr Hansen implies a betting coup was
engineered by Hero of Orders connections:

Dr. Kendall Hansen says:
August 15, 2012 at 6:42 pm (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby//lcomment-273)

You miss my point. The other trainer was celebrating his horses 5th place finish and/or ruining Hansen’s chances. I imply he bet against or has associates betting against his own horse since he know he was going to attempt compromising both horses chances. It is unethical and in most places illegal to best against your horse. The betting public that bet on his horse were robbed.

From comments section:
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/ (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/)

[Stillriledup]

Responding to a comment on his blog,Dr Hansen implies a betting coup was
engineered by Hero of Orders connections:

If Hansen was as good as Hurray for Hollywood (Del Mar's 3rd race today) he would have won anyway despite a horse specifically being ridden to cost him the race.

Also, i do believe that Hansen's connections have already stated that he 'doesnt need the lead' why not yield (like a harness horse) and 'sit the pocket' to the longshot who plans on stopping in the stretch anyway? There's no law that says you have to get in a speed duel if you dont want to.

[Striker]

Responding to a comment on his blog,Dr Hansen implies a betting coup was
engineered by Hero of Orders connections:
Now he is making these kinds of accusations against other owners and their betting. Does he have any proof?

[Mr G]

In reading the readers comments to the posted link story I noticed two of them mention the show pool....what exactly are they implying regarding the show pool?


Comment 1

think there is no question that they were trying to wear Hansen out. It then becomes a question of motive. There was a huge Show pool and I wonder who it was that put the big show money down?

Comment 2

All u need to know about this race is the show payoffs. Follow the money, u will have your answer

[Quesmark]

If Hansen was as good as Hurray for Hollywood (Del Mar's 3rd race today) he would have won anyway despite a horse specifically being ridden to cost him the race.

Also, i do believe that Hansen's connections have already stated that he 'doesnt need the lead' why not yield (like a harness horse) and 'sit the pocket' to the longshot who plans on stopping in the stretch anyway? There's no law that says you have to get in a speed duel if you dont want to.

Sometimes like in Hooray for Hollywood's case the tactics against don't work he got there anyway.
Dr.Hansen's answer to not sitting the pocket?


I asked Mike if he confronted E M Martin, Jr. in the jockey room. He said yes. Mike asked him what the hell he was doing? Mike Smith told him he was trying to help him go by, but apparently when Mike slowed down, so did Martin to match, ….when Mike sped up Martin whipped to make HERO OF ORDER match strides with Hansen and so on.

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/ (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/)

[johnhannibalsmith]

:rolleyes: Hell, the text of his blog's link spells out that it was a "russian" trainer. I guess, combine that with the fact that Mike Smith didn't blame himself and the fact that some idiot - probably Hansen - polluted the show pool makes this pretty cut and dried, I suppose. :rolleyes:

I want some of whatever he's prescribing.

[Dahoss9698]

I guess it could be worse. Dr. Hansen could have blamed his own jockey, on Facebook (does it get any worse?) like Rick Porter's Fox Hill Farms did over the weekend.

Too bad these guys feel the need to make it all about them, instead of the horse.

[Robert Fischer]

There was a good amount($250k??) in the "sure thing" show pool on Hansen, paying a healthy 10%.

That puts even more pressure on people. The thing to do here is not make excuses, and move on.

Suicide Duel or not, Hansen wasn't going to get an uncontested lead.

[nijinski]

I love to refer back to the Woody Stephens days .
Not exactly the same scenerio , but alot of whining by Mr Klein and how the
tough as nails Stephens handled it.
Gary Stevens was in Smith's position , atop Winning Colors when Day and
Forty Niner did their thing.

From the Sun Sentinel 1988


Stephens has dubbed his adversary ``Crying Klein`` and said Thursday morning that ``I was in the Hall of Fame eight years before (Klein) knew what a horse looked like.``

As for jockey Stevens? ``He`s got to learn to keep his mouth shut.``

Would Woody ever put Gary Stevens on any of his horses? ``He`s too stupid.``

And on the same subject, how about the Daily Racing Form`s editorial blasting him?

``Some stupid sucker in California wrote it.``

Stephens` remarks haven`t been confined to his Belmont office.

At a Legends of Racing dinner in Atlantic City Tuesday evening, Stephens said: ``I don`t think he means to have the reputation of being a `Crying Klein,` but that`s what he`s getting. And the horse people tell me, `Woody, we can`t believe this man acted this way.` But you know, I feel like he doesn`t know anything. He got beat and that`s it.``

Not quite. Crying Klein T-shirts have been spotted at Belmont this week, and the rivalry is sure to continue through the summer.

Jeff Lukas, D. Wayne`s assistant and son, has remained silent about the Preakness. But after Winning Colors drew post No. 3 Thursday and was made the 9-5 second choice, Lukas spoke about the controversy.

``It`s gone on for quite a while,`` said the younger Lukas, clearly not wanting to delve too deeply into the dispute. ``The next day (after the Preakness) when we came back to Belmont Park, we turned our attention to the Belmont. We`ve got a lot of mail, stacks of letters from the public. I guess it`s created interest.``

Lukas said that Day has ridden ``two or three of our horses here at Belmont.`` As for whether he has spoken to Stephens since the Belmont. ``Not really,`` he said.

[Some_One]

Was Hansen entitled to an easy lead? It's Smith's job to judge the pace and adjust strategy accordingly.

[JustRalph]

Was Hansen entitled to an easy lead? It's Smith's job to judge the pace and adjust strategy accordingly.

I think it has been proven this year that Mikey is having problems with pace.

Btw, why is Hansen bitching? This has been going on forever. What would be the difference if it was an obvious rabbit instead of a clandestine rabbit?

[nijinski]

I think it has been proven this year that Mikey is having problems with pace.

Btw, why is Hansen bitching? This has been going on forever. What would be the difference if it was an obvious rabbit instead of a clandestine rabbit?
Exactly !

[Mr G]

I did a google search for the race and came across this description of it which was dated Aug 4th
__

Jockey Corey Nakatani and Macho Macho (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/macho-macho/2009?source=BHonline) let Louisiana Derby winner (gr. I) Hero of Order (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/hero-of-order/2009?source=BHonline) do the dirty work wearing out 3-5 favorite Hansen (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/hansen/2009?source=BHonline) in the $750,000 West Virginia Derby (gr. II) (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/race/USA/MNR/2012/8/4/8/west-virginia-derby), then rolled home from a perfect stalking position to claim victory at Mountaineer Casino Racetrack & Resort (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/racetracks/76/mountaineer-casino-racetrack--resort) Aug. 4

Hansen, the 2011 2-year-old male champion racing with a blue tail for Dr. Kendall Hansen and trainer Mike Maker under Hall of Fame jockey Mike Smith, tired in the 1 1/8 mile test after Hero of Order pressed the pace on the inside from the break all the way to the final turn. Hansen finished fourth behind Macho Macho and closers Bourbon Courage (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/bourbon-courage/2009?source=BHonline) and Called to Serve (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/called-to-serve/2009?source=BHonline).

"For some reason they wanted to be in front of him," Smith remarked of the pressure from Hero of Order and Eddie Martin Jr. up front. "They wound up way back and ended up costing me the race. He ran OK, but he was really hot and got pressured all the way. It just wasn't his day."

Hansen and Hero of Order matched strides for a :24.43 opening quarter, then went the half in :47.33 while Macho Macho, the 9-2 second choice in the field of nine sophomore runners, rolled along in third.

"The game plan was to make Hansen and Hero of Order have to commit early," Nakatani said. "Eddie did that, and Hansen had to use himself up."




http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/71794/macho-macho-takes-west-virginia-derby

[thespaah]

"...this was not an unintentional speed duel."

Dr Hansen has cracked this case wide open...what a sleuth...is he also looking into Smarty Jone's lose in the Belmont?
No..It was Professor Plum and the candlestick.

[Dahoss9698]

I did a google search for the race and came across this description of it which was dated Aug 4th
__

Jockey Corey Nakatani and Macho Macho (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/macho-macho/2009?source=BHonline) let Louisiana Derby winner (gr. I) Hero of Order (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/hero-of-order/2009?source=BHonline) do the dirty work wearing out 3-5 favorite Hansen (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/hansen/2009?source=BHonline) in the $750,000 West Virginia Derby (gr. II) (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/race/USA/MNR/2012/8/4/8/west-virginia-derby), then rolled home from a perfect stalking position to claim victory at Mountaineer Casino Racetrack & Resort (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/racetracks/76/mountaineer-casino-racetrack--resort) Aug. 4

Hansen, the 2011 2-year-old male champion racing with a blue tail for Dr. Kendall Hansen and trainer Mike Maker under Hall of Fame jockey Mike Smith, tired in the 1 1/8 mile test after Hero of Order pressed the pace on the inside from the break all the way to the final turn. Hansen finished fourth behind Macho Macho and closers Bourbon Courage (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/bourbon-courage/2009?source=BHonline) and Called to Serve (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/called-to-serve/2009?source=BHonline).

"For some reason they wanted to be in front of him," Smith remarked of the pressure from Hero of Order and Eddie Martin Jr. up front. "They wound up way back and ended up costing me the race. He ran OK, but he was really hot and got pressured all the way. It just wasn't his day."

Hansen and Hero of Order matched strides for a :24.43 opening quarter, then went the half in :47.33 while Macho Macho, the 9-2 second choice in the field of nine sophomore runners, rolled along in third.

"The game plan was to make Hansen and Hero of Order have to commit early," Nakatani said. "Eddie did that, and Hansen had to use himself up."




http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/71794/macho-macho-takes-west-virginia-derby

To be fair, the story reads a bit different without your edits.

[davew]

I think many would agree Hansen had a poor ride. In a post race interview,Smith was whining about some 50/1 shot that didn't have a chance wrecked his race and came in last.

Actually closer to 37/1, Grade 1 winner on 4/1 and gaining again on Hansen at finish in 5th place.

I was surprised it looked like Smith let Hansen coast the last 100 yards and get past by 3 horses (or else was just too far and Hansen totally out of gas).

[camourous]

Then maybe Hansen should of tried to rate off the lead like he did in the Gotham, but when you have a heartless brainless jockey aboard who can't adjust during the race he had zero chance

[Saratoga_Mike]

I guess it could be worse. Dr. Hansen could have blamed his own jockey, on Facebook (does it get any worse?) like Rick Porter's Fox Hill Farms did over the weekend.

Too bad these guys feel the need to make it all about them, instead of the horse.

Hadn't seen this...will google it...unreal

[VeryOldMan]

Was Hansen entitled to an easy lead? It's Smith's job to judge the pace and adjust strategy accordingly.

Exactly. Just watched the replay - an opening half in 47 1/5 doesn't exactly seem like a suicidal pace either. Hansen got beat fair and square.

[Robert Fischer]

Then maybe Hansen should of tried to rate off the lead like he did in the Gotham, but when you have a heartless brainless jockey aboard who can't adjust during the race he had zero chance

lol this was harsh, but I agree with the taking what the race gives you part...

[GMB@BP]

Exactly. Just watched the replay - an opening half in 47 1/5 doesn't exactly seem like a suicidal pace either. Hansen got beat fair and square.

My contention as well, fast but nothing that Hansen is not used too, he just sucks compared to the better 3yo routers. Cut him back in the Kings Bishop and I bet he might run a lot like Hard Spun, though I dont think he is that good.

[GMB@BP]

Then maybe Hansen should of tried to rate off the lead like he did in the Gotham, but when you have a heartless brainless jockey aboard who can't adjust during the race he had zero chance

Is being a jockey the easiest thing of any profession, aside from the danger of course? Here you have the heartless, brainless rider, and he is one of the greats of his generation.

I mean how easy is it to make millions?

[cj]

Is being a jockey the easiest thing of any profession, aside from the danger of course? Here you have the heartless, brainless rider, and he is one of the greats of his generation.

I mean how easy is it to make millions?

Well, you left out the part about being a shrimp. A lot of us might have trouble with that.

[Pine Tree Lane]

Is being a jockey the easiest thing of any profession, aside from the danger of course? Here you have the heartless, brainless rider, and he is one of the greats of his generation.

I mean how easy is it to make millions?


And I bet you think you could hit .250 in the majors, play 2nd base and make 15 million a year as well right?

If Hansen goes in the Travers, he'll have another rider. Smith got the mount on Atigun. I would think Dominguez would stay with Alpha?

[GMB@BP]

And I bet you think you could hit .250 in the majors, play 2nd base and make 15 million a year as well right?

If Hansen goes in the Travers, he'll have another rider. Smith got the mount on Atigun. I would think Dominguez would stay with Alpha?

lol

[Quesmark]

Besides the way the race unfolded,and what kind of pace dynamic there was,the bigger issue Dr.Hansen raised, was his assertion the trainer of Hero of Order
Dorochenko engineered a betting coup by taking out a heavy favorite,with his horse doing the dirty work.
Entering a rabbit to assist a stablemate's one thing,using a horse to take out another with no intention of winning and then betting on other contenders quite another.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Besides the way the race unfolded,and what kind of pace dynamic there was,the bigger issue Dr.Hansen raised, was his assertion the trainer of Hero of Order
Dorochenko engineered a betting coup by taking out a heavy favorite,with his horse doing the dirty work.
Entering a rabbit to assist a stablemate's one thing,using a horse to take out another with no intention of winning and then betting on other contenders quite another.

So rather than dance around all this crap with faux solicitations for opinions about whether or not the evil russian trainer was simply out to get him and Mike Smith's objective heresay - why not come out with it straight and alert the world to all his information that supports this deduction? Surely he has more to support this premise than the fact that the evil russian trainer was celebrating (according to him) and his jock's post-race excuses.

[nijinski]

Besides the way the race unfolded,and what kind of pace dynamic there was,the bigger issue Dr.Hansen raised, was his assertion the trainer of Hero of Order
Dorochenko engineered a betting coup by taking out a heavy favorite,with his horse doing the dirty work.
Entering a rabbit to assist a stablemate's one thing,using a horse to take out another with no intention of winning and then betting on other contenders quite another.
There is nothing illegal about sending in a rabbit.
The mention of the betting coup here with intent , can that be proven ?

[JustRalph]

Well, you left out the part about being a shrimp. A lot of us might have trouble with that.

That's all that was stopping me, darn it!

[GMB@BP]

So rather than dance around all this crap with faux solicitations for opinions about whether or not the evil russian trainer was simply out to get him and Mike Smith's objective heresay - why not come out with it straight and alert the world to all his information that supports this deduction? Surely he has more to support this premise than the fact that the evil russian trainer was celebrating (according to him) and his jock's post-race excuses.

Smith never claimed anything other than the horse was intent on getting the lead and making his life really difficult. The phone conversation was certainly not supposed to be a public event, and the relationship with Maker is most certainly now destroyed cause of it, let alone this Hansen quack.

[SandyLoam]

You gotta love the doctor's naivete/ignorance approach. He's pure as the driven snow. It appeared to me Smith wanted the lead right away and then the race to himself, probably dismissing the others as not equal to the almighty Hansen. Neither one could let the other run away. Hansen the horse would be better off if better spotted. I'm still savoring the Show payouts. And, the horse's tail did not look blue; it looked dirty.

[affirmedny]

Entering a rabbit to assist a stablemate's one thing,using a horse to take out another with no intention of winning and then betting on other contenders quite another.

And also perfectly legal.

[VeryOldMan]

The evidence from the running of the race sure doesn't show anything unfair or improper. Hero of Order has only won twice before - both times, though, through setting or stalking the early pace just as here. He held on for a 109-1 bomb in the Louisiana Derby. Hero had just faced Hansen in the Iowa Derby and Hansen was able to get an uncontested lead and smoke the field, so presumably Hero's trainer didn't want that to happen again. Hero of Order breaks cleanly, establishes position on the rail and sets fractions for 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 that are all SLOWER than set by Tapizar (including over a full second slower at 6 furlongs), who won the immediately preceding 1 1/16th stakes race. Mark P. was all over how vulnerable Hansen was in the pre-race show and it played out pretty much as forecast. Where's the beef here?

[GMB@BP]

The evidence from the running of the race sure doesn't show anything unfair or improper. Hero of Order has only won twice before - both times, though, through setting or stalking the early pace just as here. He held on for a 109-1 bomb in the Louisiana Derby. Hero had just faced Hansen in the Iowa Derby and Hansen was able to get an uncontested lead and smoke the field, so presumably Hero's trainer didn't want that to happen again. Hero of Order breaks cleanly, establishes position on the rail and sets fractions for 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 that are all SLOWER than set by Tapizar (including over a full second slower at 6 furlongs), who won the immediately preceding 1 1/16th stakes race. Mark P. was all over how vulnerable Hansen was in the pre-race show and it played out pretty much as forecast. Where's the beef here?

a sore loser owner, thats it. Horse will get his ass handed to him in the travers as well, and for those here saying he lost because he was not ridden right have their chance to get rich!

[Mr G]

Where's the beef?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0 :)

[Mr G]

There is nothing illegal about sending in a rabbit.
The mention of the betting coup here with intent , can that be proven ?

The betting coup accusation is a serious one. And if he has no proof the trainer of Hero of Order should easily be successful in suing the pants off of him.

[rrpic6]

The betting coup accusation is a serious one. And if he has no proof the trainer of Hero of Order should easily be successful in suing the pants off of him.

Good thread! My boys and me are still laughing about the whole scenario that went down that day. Watching it play out live was as good as any LUCK episode. Dorechencko "sends" Hero of Order to burn out Hansen, then cashes big on the exacta and trifecta. He was a happy man! I did not see him actually cash out.....but we all know the rest of the story!
http://equibase.com/results/stakesresults.cfm Go to August 4th Mountaineer.

RR

[VeryOldMan]

I'm still trying to figure out the unethical/betting angle - if there was a massive conspiracy against Hansen, wouldn't the odds on the exotic bets or the show bets end up disproportionately low? I looked at the payouts and don't see it at all, but there are bettors on this board who know those bets WAY better than I do and can say whether those odds ended up being suspicious. The dark conspiracy thoughts on the Hansen blog about the size of the show pool seemed silly to me, as that pool was almost certainly bloated by bridge jumpers on Hansen trying to take advantage of the minimum 2.20 show payout in WV. If I was part of a dark conspiracy against Hansen, I would have taken a shot at that show pool - the fact that it paid 11.00 for the winner suggests a lack of conspiracy or some awful conspirators to me. I'm a noob here - help me out.

[Stillriledup]

In Hansen's previous race at PRM, Hero Of Order was in that race and stayed far away from Hansen that day for what its worth.

[Stillriledup]

I'm still trying to figure out the unethical/betting angle - if there was a massive conspiracy against Hansen, wouldn't the odds on the exotic bets or the show bets end up disproportionately low? I looked at the payouts and don't see it at all, but there are bettors on this board who know those bets WAY better than I do and can say whether those odds ended up being suspicious. The dark conspiracy thoughts on the Hansen blog about the size of the show pool seemed silly to me, as that pool was almost certainly bloated by bridge jumpers on Hansen trying to take advantage of the minimum 2.20 show payout in WV. If I was part of a dark conspiracy against Hansen, I would have taken a shot at that show pool - the fact that it paid 11.00 for the winner suggests a lack of conspiracy or some awful conspirators to me. I'm a noob here - help me out.

Sometimes, one dimensional front runners get dueled into defeat, maybe the owner feels that his horse should just get handed a 750k race on a silver platter? It would be nice if it worked that way, im sure plenty of owners who own front running types would love to be 'left alone' in all their races on the lead, but unfortunately for Dr Hansen, that's not how it works.

[VeryOldMan]

Sometimes, one dimensional front runners get dueled into defeat, maybe the owner feels that his horse should just get handed a 750k race on a silver platter? It would be nice if it worked that way, im sure plenty of owners who own front running types would love to be 'left alone' in all their races on the lead, but unfortunately for Dr Hansen, that's not how it works.

Yeah, haven't "rabbits" been compromising the trips of their more highly-regarded front running foes forever? I'm a recreational bettor but have been following the sport for 40 years and am having a hard time seeing that Hansen somehow got it worse than other front-running horses who had to expend energy on the front end of a race and lost. Making it worse in this case is that there's no evidence it was some sort of suicidal pace.

[Robert Fischer]

I'm still trying to figure out the unethical/betting angle - if there was a massive conspiracy against Hansen, wouldn't the odds on the exotic bets or the show bets end up disproportionately low? I looked at the payouts and don't see it at all, but there are bettors on this board who know those bets WAY better than I do and can say whether those odds ended up being suspicious. The dark conspiracy thoughts on the Hansen blog about the size of the show pool seemed silly to me, as that pool was almost certainly bloated by bridge jumpers on Hansen trying to take advantage of the minimum 2.20 show payout in WV. If I was part of a dark conspiracy against Hansen, I would have taken a shot at that show pool - the fact that it paid 11.00 for the winner suggests a lack of conspiracy or some awful conspirators to me. I'm a noob here - help me out.

most vulnerable = Win, Plc, Exacta, Pick3

Win and Plc are normal.

Exacta could have paid more($64), but then again it was betting choices 2 and 3. People box 3 horses commonly and $64 isn't really that low...

Pick3 i'm not going through the trouble :).


another possibility is with the near $250k to shw on Hansen, one person may have had about $100k of that shw money in a single bet.

[Delta Cone]

Apart from all of Dr. Hansen's complaints, isn't is sad that this guy was able to obtain an advanced degree? He can't spell or write for shit.

"speed dual"

"savy"

[Pace Cap'n]

And also perfectly legal.

Is this to say that it is legal for a trainer to bet on a horse other than his own?

[thespaah]

Is this to say that it is legal for a trainer to bet on a horse other than his own?
I was under the impression that anyone with an owner's trainers or groom's license was prohibited from betting on any other horse in a race where said people have a horse in that race. And the only bet available was a "win" bet.

[affirmedny]

Is this to say that it is legal for a trainer to bet on a horse other than his own?

You're right, change it to having your horse run the fav into the ground is perfectly legal, and the betting on other horse part will turn out to be impossible to prove.

[VeryOldMan]

Is this to say that it is legal for a trainer to bet on a horse other than his own?

Can't say I made an exhaustive search, but the only WV rule I saw on this point simply said:

26.4. Restrictions on Wagering. Each trainer shall refrain from wagering on his or her horse or horses to win or finish first in combination with other horses in a race in which the trainer is participating.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Apart from all of Dr. Hansen's complaints, isn't is sad that this guy was able to obtain an advanced degree? He can't spell or write for shit.

"speed dual"

"savy"

You missed one. Hint, it's in bold.

[Robert Fischer]

spelling is overrated

He seems like a cool guy and he's passionate about his horse.
Apparently no one close to him feels like they can give "advise" him on stuff like this.

Can't say it isn't entertaining.

[Dahoss9698]

spelling is overrated

He seems like a cool guy and he's passionate about his horse.
Apparently no one close to him feels like they can give "advise" him on stuff like this.

Can't say it isn't entertaining.

He seems like a cool guy? He's a clown.

[Robert Fischer]

Crazy or crazy like a fox?


sure...
At least he's colorful. He's making mistakes, and he should come out with an apology/excuse/"i was misquoted on my own blog" etc...

I'm entertained.

[SandyLoam]

spelling is overrated

He seems like a cool guy and he's passionate about his horse.
Apparently no one close to him feels like they can give "advise" him on stuff like this.

Can't say it isn't entertaining.
Spelling is overrated? Literacy is becoming less and less cool as other countries pass us on the turn. But I doubt I have any advice for you on spelling or grammar.

[Robert Fischer]

Spelling is overrated? Literacy is becoming less and less cool as other countries pass us on the turn. But I doubt I have any advice for you on spelling or grammar.

I botched the grammar there pretty bad. It's always possible that some high-level creative thought occurred to me, and I began advising, rather than offering advice. ;)

To be honest, I use spell-check quite a bit.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... At least he's colorful. ... I'm entertained.

All that goes out the window for me when a guy starts whining like yet another entitled brat.

That ridiculous "blog entry" is styled in a detestible fashion - ordered as though it is a "Finding of Facts" - yet, almost nothing in the way of actual fact. Still worse, even if construed as fact, they are meaningless in the variety of contexts in which we, the readers, are expected/allowed to subjectively decide how to apply them to suit our whims.

Accusations that begin with the "unethical" (alleged by Hansen) practice of a jock riding another jock's horse into vulnerability and then progress into innuendo, if not out and out allegations, that the rival trainer sacrificed a recent graded stakes winner's chances simply to roll the dice that he could cost the favorite a top three finish and cash some tickets. Support of this theory is vested in Hansen's own account of an "exhuberant" (sic) trainer and a conversation with his jock in which the jock relays the utterances and behavior of the rival trainer's jock, complete with descriptions of his body language meant to imply great shame on the part of that jock.

Blow the case open, Doc. You wanted "opinions" based upon the initial innuendo and when only the lapdogs at your fanzine connected the dots to your satisfaction, you decided to spell it out for the slow on the uptake.

If this was some sort of ridiculous betting coup, let's get a little more reliable information. Let's get to the bottom of this thing and come with something a bit more than the crap you've woven together.

And how about you do all that before you go making a ridiculous spectacle of your horse, your jock, and yourself. You are supposed to be a fairly intelligent person, Doc. There may or may not be truth to your (lightly) veiled accusations, but your methods thus far are pathetic. You've gone from being an entertaining, colorful eccentric in my eyes to being yet another run-of-the-mill megalomanical wanker.

[Simple Syrup]

My friends and I were dreading a Hansen win in the KY Derby, because we feared two weeks of the media telling us that Dr. Hanser is "exactly the type of owner that horse racing needs." I didn't know how right we were.

Unless there really was a betting consipracy, the part Dr. H doesn't seem to understand is that while HOO didn't have a great shot to win, getting out early and setting a pace was his only chance to win.

[Maximillion]

Im not, at this point ready to call him a 3rd rate 3yo.....running along side another horse( in slow fractions) and "toying" with him just isnt Hansens game imo..maybe he can develop that later as he matures.

I do agree he probably has distance issues...but Im willing to withold judgement of the Mnr race.

As far as the owner,not real interested in what he has to say....

[Quesmark]

What a difference a day makes:
Dr. Kendall Hansen says:
August 21, 2012 at 1:26 pm (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby//lcomment-318)

Lisa, what a great post. A real pleasure to hear from a true thoroughbred lover. I hope Hansen gets his 3 year old signature win this Saturday. Hope you are right about getting there a few days earlier to acclimate to Saratoga. Yes I am very proud of Hansen’s consistency of running healthy for almost a year now. I think he is smart and takes care of himself. And maybe rolling in the sand everyday keeps him loose. )

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/ (http://blogs.courier-journal.com/hansen/2012/08/14/was-hansen-targeted-by-russian-trainer-in-west-virginia-derby/)

[Stillriledup]

All that goes out the window for me when a guy starts whining like yet another entitled brat.

That ridiculous "blog entry" is styled in a detestible fashion - ordered as though it is a "Finding of Facts" - yet, almost nothing in the way of actual fact. Still worse, even if construed as fact, they are meaningless in the variety of contexts in which we, the readers, are expected/allowed to subjectively decide how to apply them to suit our whims.

Accusations that begin with the "unethical" (alleged by Hansen) practice of a jock riding another jock's horse into vulnerability and then progress into innuendo, if not out and out allegations, that the rival trainer sacrificed a recent graded stakes winner's chances simply to roll the dice that he could cost the favorite a top three finish and cash some tickets. Support of this theory is vested in Hansen's own account of an "exhuberant" (sic) trainer and a conversation with his jock in which the jock relays the utterances and behavior of the rival trainer's jock, complete with descriptions of his body language meant to imply great shame on the part of that jock.

Blow the case open, Doc. You wanted "opinions" based upon the initial innuendo and when only the lapdogs at your fanzine connected the dots to your satisfaction, you decided to spell it out for the slow on the uptake.

If this was some sort of ridiculous betting coup, let's get a little more reliable information. Let's get to the bottom of this thing and come with something a bit more than the crap you've woven together.

And how about you do all that before you go making a ridiculous spectacle of your horse, your jock, and yourself. You are supposed to be a fairly intelligent person, Doc. There may or may not be truth to your (lightly) veiled accusations, but your methods thus far are pathetic. You've gone from being an entertaining, colorful eccentric in my eyes to being yet another run-of-the-mill megalomanical wanker.

Not one syllable of what you post is false. Some people say this guy is good for racing, but a sore loser isnt really good for any kind of game. Sure, he's out there and wacky and 'different' but its a weird and creepy kind of different.

When you have the image of Todd Schrupp giving Matt Carruthers a 'blue shower' with a couple dozen little white rubber horses with blue tails that Dr Hansen sent them in a big fedex box, it just doesnt feel like this is 'great for racing'.

. I'm not sure if he thought his 'antics' and comments were created to make people LIKE him? Maybe he was just delusional and thought that the stuff he was doing would 'endear' him to the racing community, lets hope that his calculations were 'off' and he really is a 'good guy' who just had bad ideas on how to become a likeable owner and a person that the average fan wanted to root for.