MSNBC is here to educate your uninformed voting ass

[PaceAdvantage]

Poll: Most favor Voter ID laws, but public awareness of their effect is low

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/13/13266161-poll-most-favor-voter-id-laws-but-public-awareness-of-their-effect-is-low

Yes, it must be that folks are just way too dumb to understand the serious implications of something that makes WAY too much sense to them... :bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

Allow me to ask some serious questions here.

It's amazing this article centers on race (ok, it's not really amazing...we all know MSNBC/NBC leans left, and the left LOVES racism...it contributes MIGHTILY to the coffers of the DNC, so why would they want to see racism end?)

But I digress...back to my point...

Forget about race. Let's talk mostly about POOR PEOPLE...black, white, whatever color. Poor does not discriminate...

Now then, POOR PEOPLE (those on welfare), never seem to have ANY TROUBLE getting their welfare EBT cards (at least here in NY). EBT stands for Electronic Benefit Transfer. I'm sure in other states, there are similar programs. Or vouchers, or whatever system is used to distribute welfare payments.

Even the tried and true welfare check...the poor among us seem to have no problem obtaining an EBT card, or cashing their welfare check. But lo and behold, all of a sudden, they are going to have a MASSIVE problem obtaining that elusive voter ID card.

Why is that? Especially when plans have already been submitted to see to it that the poor or those lacking transportation will be taken care of when it comes to obtaining said cards.

How come I never see articles worrying about how the poor are going to be able to cash their welfare checks or obtain their EBT cards? How come I never see articles worrying about government fairness when it comes to the distribution of welfare for the poor? This article doesn't fail to point out the following:Weiser and Wilson say that many people supporting voter ID trust the government to apply the laws fairly.Meaning, those who don't support voter ID don't trust the government to apply the laws fairly. But they DO trust the government to apply welfare laws fairly? To make sure all the poor and deserving folks get their money on time every month?

What sense does any of this make?

Here's a simple solution that should end the hand wringing by the far left. Let the welfare arm of government handle the distribution of voter ID cards. Then we can be sure that every poor person, black or white (you know, the kind of people the above article worries will be disenfranchised...well, actually, they seem to be only worried about black people, but that's another story) will get their voter ID card, just like they get their welfare payments every single month.

Problem sol-ved (said in my best Peter Sellers ala Inspector Clouseau).

[Tom]

As is their usual, the dems insult those they supposedly represent by implying that poor people are to stupid or too helpless to be able to do something as basic as get photo ID.

There is no reason for anyone not to have photo id. The idea that this is a restriction on voting rights is absurd. Photo Id is a restriction on illegals voting, which is part of the democrat strategy.

Obama gave a speech about food stamps in Mexico.....what US citizens, eligible to vote, are in Mexico without a photo ID? Unlike the USA, Mexico understands the importance of protecting your borders and your citizens.

[JBmadera]

My daughter is a Politics major at an uber liberal UC, she thinks everyone needs to pass a test to be allowed to vote. Of course the test will be prepared by "the best and brightest" aka uber liberal college professors.....:bang:

damn that milkman!

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
What sense does any of this make?

...

Okay, I'll be the one to play the fool and answer the best I can with regards to your analogy.

The goal is to increase (or perhaps, not decrease) voter turnout. If you could give $100 bills to vote, turnout would be nearly 100%.

If you tell a person, poor, middle class, or upper class that there is money for them waiting if they just get to 13401 E. 77th Ave, they'll steal a bicycle to get there for the money if that's what it takes.

If you tell those same people that the polls are at the same address, you don't get nearly the "turnout" as you'd get for the free money.

So, the difference between the two events, voting and "free money", revolves around any person's desire to attend and the will to make it happen.

Sure, if you truly value your eligibility to vote, you should be willing to move mountains to make it happen if that's what you'd be willing to do for "free money", since your vote probably is worth more in "free money" than the "free money" is worth in "free money".

But, the reality is that, given the likely disparity in turnout for "free money" and for voting, the lengths to which people will go to guarantee their ability to vote and to guarantee collecting the cash right now are not even close to equal.

In other words, most humans realize that you can't throw up enough obstacles to prevent people from cashing a check if it means spending money. But, it is much more reasonable to assume that given fairly low voter turnout, any obstacle, even a fairly trivial one will impact turnout negatively.

If it is true (not saying that it is, just using the qualifier as part of the logic here) that lower income legal citizens are less likely to already have the required identification to vote, then that added obstacle may be more than sufficient to keep an otherwise willing voter home.

Maybe that's a good thing - a serious decision like voting should be taken seriously enough that you're willing to put in as much effort to make it happen as you would for a "10 for $10 One-Day Only Special on Tostitos with Safeway Club Card". But, that's not really the point.

Now, if you want to get into the notion of those on welfare or EBT or whatever needing ID to acquire the benefits or cash the check or whatever - again, I didn't read in the post where you implied that the same people actually collecting the benefits are the ones that are being limited from voting. You just made the point that the poor in general would move those mountains to get the benefits, so certainly they should be able to do so to vote - and perhaps those poor that do go through the process of registering and using benefits are the sect of poor that would be able to "overcome" :rolleyes: this major obstacle to voting.

I think that you make kind of a good point, but I also think that in order for the point to work completely, you have to assume that ALL poor are on welfare or have made some effort to receive benefits - which is obviously tough to assume.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think that you make kind of a good point, but I also think that in order for the point to work completely, you have to assume that ALL poor are on welfare or have made some effort to receive benefits - which is obviously tough to assume.I would think those worrying about disenfranchisement are concerned about those people poor enough to also require welfare.

Regardless of the motivating factor, my point was simple. If these poor people that are being worried about have the ability to obtain their EBT card and/or cash their welfare check, how do they not ALSO have the ability to obtain their voter ID card?

I'm not talking about motivation here. I'm talking ABILITY. Because that SEEMS to be the thrust of the argument for the hand wringers. The ABILITY of SOME people to actually obtain these cards.

Thus, if the poorest among us have the ABILITY to get their welfare, in whatever form, then they also have the ABILITY to get their voter ID card. Welfare checks don't cash themselves. And EBT cards don't walk on their own to the grocery store to stock up on essentials (cause we all know that nobody ever tries to buy beer or cigarettes or even twinkies with their EBT cards ;) ).

[johnhannibalsmith]

:D ... If these poor people that are being worried about have the ability to obtain their EBT card and/or cash their welfare check, how do they not ALSO have the ability to obtain their voter ID card?

I'm not talking about motivation here. I'm talking ABILITY. Because that SEEMS to be the thrust of the argument for the hand wringers. The ABILITY of SOME people to actually obtain these cards.

...

I think that this portion here, phrased as such, makes the point pretty well.

Perhaps the Defenders of the Universe should consider re-phrasing their objections from "ability" as you suggest, to a more "obstacle-centric" theory like I'm pushing. Laf...

I suppose that you should be careful what you wish for or should the Preziz poll numbers dip, your post here may compel someone to press for no-questions-asked cash dispersals to anyone that shows up looking for some help.

[PaceAdvantage]

And another thing. If these people have no ABILITY to obtain their voter ID card, how do they have the ABILITY to actually get to the polls and vote?

Now, if you come back at me and say "well, there are volunteers who bus these folks to the polls so that they can vote," well then, why not have these same volunteers bus these people to get their Voter ID card?

Again, problem sol-ved.

The argument AGAINST Voter ID cards is clearly specious if a simpleton like me can rip it to shreds in mere moments.

[whiptastic]

If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that we create or augment a government program to combat a problem that doesn't really exist. It seems to me that's creating more government for no reason. Maybe I'm missing something though.

[PaceAdvantage]

If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that we create or augment a government program to combat a problem that doesn't really exist. It seems to me that's creating more government for no reason. Maybe I'm missing something though.I am proposing that there exists simple solutions for whatever problems, real or imagined, might exist with a Voter ID card program. Certainly nothing that should stop such a program from becoming reality.

[whiptastic]

Do you think we should have a Speech ID card?

[PaceAdvantage]

Do you think we should have a Speech ID card?I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, if you're trying to say a Voter ID card is unnecessary, then I point to all the claims of voter fraud throughout the years...and there is PLENTY to go around, coming from BOTH sides of the aisle.

[whiptastic]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, if you're trying to say a Voter ID card is unnecessary, then I point to all the claims of voter fraud throughout the years...and there is PLENTY to go around, coming from BOTH sides of the aisle.

It seems to me that the problem (if there is one) is actually at the registration time, not at the voting time. Where I live (and this may not be the case for everyone), I go to the polling place and they ask my name, look it up and then have me sign next to my address in the book. If someone were to come in and vote as me, I'd know it. Frankly, the whole "impersonation" fraud thing is really just not a problem. Where there is fraud is usually in absentee ballots, voting in different locations (i.e. I work in one state and live in another and vote in both locations), and crazy stuff like buying votes and manipulation of the counts. I just don't think that a photo ID presented at the polling station is going to do much of anything. The states manage their own voting requirements, so it sounds like you want to have the federal government expanded to tackle this "problem". I guess I just don't think it's worth all that.

[DRIVEWAY]

The democrats give certain people "walking around money" to go and vote.

I'm wondering how Photo-Id's will affect that budget?:lol:

[Tom]

Didn't Ljb hand out a couple thousand packs of cigarettes in Detroit a few years ago? When Bush won.

Then he disappeared for a long time. :D

[TJDave]

As is their usual, the dems insult those they supposedly represent by implying that poor people are to stupid or too helpless to be able to do something as basic as get photo ID.



The beauty of insulting stupid people is that you usually get away with it.

Especially if you pay for the privilege.