HSH Software

[punteray]

I just attended the HSH webinar over the weekend. Mind Boggling!!

This is the best product to hit Horse Racing in the last 100 years. And I am damn near that old!!! LOL

[MrBaseball]

Pretend this is a MasterCard icon:

Spending 16+ hours listening and discussing the intriques of New Pace with Dave Shwartz...............PRICELESS :ThmbUp:

[RonTiller]

How in the world did anybody coax Dave into talking for ONLY 16 hours?

Ron Tiller
HDW

[MrBaseball]

Of course I meant to say INTRICACIES of NEW PACE :confused:

Ron..........believe it or not, Dave actually took some break periods and maybe his wife did some coaxing :) He was still going strong in the last hours..........I did sense he really wanted to continue the marathon :jump:

[ronestes]

Where on Dave's Website can you see a description and screen shots of the HSH software Thanks Ron

[Dave Schwartz]

HSH with NewPace and Renegade Handicapper (http://thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/episode-7-hsh-insiders-club/)

[lsosa54]

And I thought Dave struck me as the shy, quiet type...

[barn32]

So, do you guys just push a button now and win at the races?

If yes, why did it take 16 hours to learn?

[PaceAdvantage]

So, do you guys just push a button now and win at the races?Where was that claim made?

[barn32]

Where was that claim made?turnkey
 
   [turn-kee] plural turn·keys.,

adjective, noun

3. fully equipped; ready to go into operation: a turnkey business.

[PaceAdvantage]

turnkey
 
   [turn-kee] plural turn·keys.,

adjective, noun

3. fully equipped; ready to go into operation: a turnkey business.You could have simply answered "no, nobody said you merely push a button and win"

But who knows, I'll let Dave answer the question.

[Tom]

So, do you guys just push a button now and win at the races?

If yes, why did it take 16 hours to learn?

You have to know what button to push!:rolleyes:

[HUSKER55]

TOM, ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO ADMIT YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH BUTTON TO PUSH IN THAT PICTURE?

:D

[Fingal]

Lets see........Red is negative, & Green is the color of money so to me it's obvious. ;)

[Dave Schwartz]

So, do you guys just push a button now and win at the races?

If yes, why did it take 16 hours to learn?

LOL - The comment was "Almost turnkey" and now they all have the ability to make their own somewhat unique but profitable solution.

And, yes, it did take 16 hours.

Most of the guys wish we'd had a couple more hours.

[Helles]

Dave is so enthusiastic about horse racing and HSH in particular, that I believe he could talk for a week and never cover the same concept twice. What's more, he would enjoy it every bit as much as the listener. In fact, he loves it so much I believe he would do it for free.

Okay, that last part was bullsh*t. :)

[nat1223]

schwartzzzy what up you little horse software guru!!!

[barn32]

LOL - The comment was "Almost turnkey" and now they all have the ability to make their own somewhat unique but profitable solution.My apologies. But I did look up "almost turnkey" in the dictionary and I couldn't' find anything. Perhaps you could elaborate.

[Tom]

Look up almost.

[speed]

Look up almost.
LMAOROFL

[A to I]

Just completed a 16 hour Webinar (Marathon) last weekend hosted by Dave Schwartz the developer of HSH New Pace software.

What a class this turned out to be, this software is unbelievable. :ThmbUp:

[jdhanover]

It certainly was chock full of great information.

And, as far as 'almost turnkey' - while we will need to see how much the 'almost' is, so to speak, it was clear from the seminar that there are many avenues/ways to explore with HSH and Dave explained how to go from where you are to where you want via incremental improvements. Like anything it will take work. But based on what I am seeing and hearing from other users, using the methods/tools/techniques from the seminar is very, very promising.

[Sly7449]

Greetings,

I checked out The Handicapping Authority for info concerning the 16 hr Seminar and was unable to find it offered under Products.

Having previously purchased New Pace and recently Renegade, it appears that Renegade need a companion of New Pace Advance along with Percentages and Probabilities to get the best of its potential.

I also notice that additional offers are listed in the Products as a Consultation Fee that ranges from $50 to $500.00

Sure lots to choose from as the Store fills up with a wide variety of Products.

Reminds me of the TV Commercials, operator are standing by.

[PaceAdvantage]

Reminds me of the TV Commercials, operator are standing by.This makes no sense. Spell it out.

[lsosa54]

Just completed a 16 hour Webinar (Marathon) last weekend hosted by Dave Schwartz the developer of HSH New Pace software.



No wonder you didn't make it out to Toga Dave - we missed you.

[Sly7449]

MR. P.A.

Your wee hours response as owner of this BBS did not give Dave to respond and spell it out as usual.

You intercept valid post not allowing the proper response.

As in post #5, that question was not ever answered however a link was provided.

O.K. In this Thread, questions came up about Turnkey. We play mind games and say it is Almost. Yet when, we look at the advertisement we see in large RED font something else. Mixed messages.

Time executed 0 seconds
http://practicalhandicapping.com/Handicapped_Videos/SplashImages/HSI-007-TurnKey.jpghttp://thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/wp-content/plugins/fv-wordpress-flowplayer/images/play.png ("") The Turnkey Solution: NewPace + The Renegade Handicapper



So you need me to spell it out, buy this product, then you have to purchase many other add-ons to get it to work. Consultation fees are extra. If you previously purchased/leased HSH then you will have to pay extra to activate Renegade and or New Pace Advance.

You may not fully under what is going on from a customer view point if you were actually participating in such purchases.

[Sly7449]

Here's the link as previously posted by Dave Schwartz in post #6.

http://thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/episode-7-hsh-insiders-club/

[PaceAdvantage]

All I was looking for was a spelling out of your "Reminds me of the TV Commercials, operator are standing by." comment.

I still don't get it...

[pktruckdriver]

So you need me to spell it out, buy this product, then you have to purchase many other add-ons to get it to work. Consultation fees are extra. If you previously purchased/leased HSH then you will have to pay extra to activate Renegade and or New Pace Advance.


This is what I been saying, buy this and that and then this, as I am a HSH user, and Dave recently was nice enough to give me 1 part of the "Almost Turnkey System", the Renengade Add-on, but it would cost me over 250 to get the 2nd halve of the "Almost Turnkey System", the New Newpace, as my Original Newpace is no longer any good, why is that, did it not work, ???

Yet , someone explained to me this is a business and without new products to sell one does not keep making money, this was hard for me to grasp, but maybe I have , but the Newpace thing still has me a little baffled, if the Newpace I bought worked , then why could it not be part of the "Almost Turnkey System , why must I buy for 250 or more the New Newpace, this I have a hard time understanding, sorry.

Best wishes


Patrick


Sorry I did make the Spa, but then



MR. P.A.

Your wee hours response as owner of this BBS did not give Dave to respond and spell it out as usual.

You intercept valid post not allowing the proper response.

As in post #5, that question was not ever answered however a link was provided.

O.K. In this Thread, questions came up about Turnkey. We play mind games and say it is Almost. Yet when, we look at the advertisement we see in large RED font something else. Mixed messages.

Time executed 0 seconds
http://practicalhandicapping.com/Handicapped_Videos/SplashImages/HSI-007-TurnKey.jpghttp://thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/wp-content/plugins/fv-wordpress-flowplayer/images/play.png (http://http://practicalhandicapping.com/Handicapped_Videos/SplashImages/HSI-007-TurnKey.jpghttp://thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/wp-content/plugins/fv-wordpress-flowplayer/images/play.png) The Turnkey Solution: NewPace + The Renegade Handicapper



So you need me to spell it out, buy this product, then you have to purchase many other add-ons to get it to work. Consultation fees are extra. If you previously purchased/leased HSH then you will have to pay extra to activate Renegade and or New Pace Advance.

You may not fully under what is going on from a customer view point if you were actually participating in such purchases.

[PaceAdvantage]

I have a question. Why is it that there seems to be many more people satisfied with HSH products, and only one or two constant complainers?

[PaceAdvantage]

MR. P.A.

Your wee hours response as owner of this BBS did not give Dave to respond and spell it out as usual.

You intercept valid post not allowing the proper response.If I could have this translated into a more understandable form of English, I might be able to formulate a polite response.

[traveler]

Hi Patrick - why don't you try to re-handicap 20 races that you have bet on in the past.

Use HSH with the "old" NewPace process you have and apply the Renegade Handicapper to arrive at your bets and tell us the results.

I know 20 races isn't much of a test but it's something.

[headhawg]

I have a question. Why is it that there seems to be many more people satisfied with HSH products, and only one or two constant complainers?I think that most of us know why. If the same kind of persistence was applied to handicapping these people might make a profit now and again.

[Dave Schwartz]

Yet , someone explained to me this is a business and without new products to sell one does not keep making money, this was hard for me to grasp, but maybe I have , but the Newpace thing still has me a little baffled, if the Newpace I bought worked , then why could it not be part of the "Almost Turnkey System , why must I buy for 250 or more the New Newpace, this I have a hard time understanding, sorry.

Patrick,

I do not know why you (or Sly) would not understand this.

I produce software. That software runs on downloads. It is my responsibility to make sure that the software works as advertised. It is not my responsibility to teach you how to win. It is your responsibility to accomplish that.

I do, however, put on many free workshops to do just that. Heck, I even do free workshops for people who have never purchased anything (and many never will).

Besides, the manual version of NewPace (Advanced version) IS part of the HSH installation! No extra charge whatsoever. Even if you didn't buy the video version!

And for the record, the NewPace button has been available to ALL users for several weeks. So, while you were so busy complaining, you could have been using the NewPace button all along. But that wouldn't work for you because then you would not have anything to complain about, right?

(This feature will go away on Friday.)

Because of many, many requests from HSH users, I took a couple of hundred programming hours to make the NewPace task so easy that it could be accomplished with the click of a single button. (This also included a several very powerful utilities that greatly enhance the task of handling hundreds of different systems.)

BTW, one of the hardest tasks was to make the NewPace system flexible enough that the individual user could customize it to suit his own needs. After all, if we're all on the same horses, then nothing will work for long.

Did I OWE all that to YOU without charge?

If I do OWE you everything I ever produce for free, then why would I still keep producing? What is my motivation? Is it because you have worked so hard to be a valuable customer?

[barn32]

I have a question. Why is it that there seems to be many more people satisfied with HSH products, and only one or two constant complainers?Do you own HSH? You are always so quick to defend it, I guess you must.

[lansdale]

I have a question. Why is it that there seems to be many more people satisfied with HSH products, and only one or two constant complainers?

Hi PA,

When I made a few posts critical of Dave and his methods some time back, I received about half a dozen strongly negative PMs both here and on the RDSS site from HSH customers who were disappointed with HSH. These complaints all had the same theme: when Dave expplained how to use HSH, they couldn't understand what the hell he was talking about. Basically, he engaged in doubletalk.

After reading many hundreds of Dave's posts here, and posts both from his friends and detractors, this is how I view Dave and his business practices. HSH (and all his many other products) comprise something like a handicapping tool hardware store where only a tiny percentage of the potential customers have the research skills required to make a consistent profit from the game. Of course there is a much larger group that would like to have and be able to use these tools to beat the game, but lack these skills. I believe Dave himself falls into this second group, and that, in fact, the bulk of his income is derived from the sales of his products, based on all his speech and behavior. Of the people who claim to be satisified with HSH, and Dave's products generally, based on the posts I read here, these are not serious gamblers, but are people whose handicapping may have been helped by use of them.

I think the problem is that Dave relentlessly overhypes products that, for most handicappers, will offer only modest improvement in their results, at best. If he dropped the hype and the doubletalk, and dealt with the handicapping public in a more honest manner, the complaints would disppear.

Cheers,

[PaceAdvantage]

I believe Dave himself falls into this second group, and that, in fact, the bulk of his income is derived from the sales of his products, based on all his speech and behavior.You pretty much couldn't be more wrong in that statement, which makes your opinion on this matter highly suspect in its entirety.

And i'm not sure why you're surprised not everyone is successful with Dave's software. There doesn't exist a piece of commercial software that turns everyone who uses it into a winner. Heck, there doesn't exist ANYTHING that turns all, or even a large portion of its user base into winners.

There are people in this world (lots of them in fact) who could find a way to lose money even if you gave them the winner of the race before it is run.

[PaceAdvantage]

Do you own HSH? You are always so quick to defend it, I guess you must."I guess" I don't need to answer the question then.

Having known Dave and his products both as a friend and as a customer, I am quick to defend him because he is tireless in his customer service efforts and he knows his shit when it comes to writing original, cutting edge software. And he's always seeking to improve himself and his products. He's not the type that is looking to sell the same piece of software for the next 15-20 years. He's always innovating and evolving his thought process and his software. Why would you want anything less?

I've been a fan of his since the early 90s, in the days of the BrainWaves newsletter and the ThoroBrain software. Well before I ever started this website.

Dave and his software certainly isn't going to be a good fit for everyone...again, no product is...everyone is different, and must figure out for themselves what will work WITH them.

[barn32]

"I guess" I don't need to answer the question then.

Having known Dave and his products both as a friend and as a customer, I am quick to defend him because he is tireless in his customer service efforts and he knows his shit when it comes to writing original, cutting edge software. And he's always seeking to improve himself and his products. He's not the type that is looking to sell the same piece of software for the next 15-20 years. He's always innovating and evolving his thought process and his software. Why would you want anything less?

I've been a fan of his since the early 90s, in the days of the BrainWaves newsletter and the ThoroBrain software. Well before I ever started this website.

Dave and his software certainly isn't going to be a good fit for everyone...again, no product is...everyone is different, and must figure out for themselves what will work WITH them.

OK, I'll rephrase. Do you own, and are you currently using HSH?

[MrBaseball]

Hi PA,

When I made a few posts critical of Dave and his methods some time back, I received about half a dozen strongly negative PMs both here and on the RDSS site from HSH customers who were disappointed with HSH. These complaints all had the same theme: when Dave expplained how to use HSH, they couldn't understand what the hell he was talking about. Basically, he engaged in doubletalk.

After reading many hundreds of Dave's posts here, and posts both from his friends and detractors, this is how I view Dave and his business practices. HSH (and all his many other products) comprise something like a handicapping tool hardware store where only a tiny percentage of the potential customers have the research skills required to make a consistent profit from the game. Of course there is a much larger group that would like to have and be able to use these tools to beat the game, but lack these skills. I believe Dave himself falls into this second group, and that, in fact, the bulk of his income is derived from the sales of his products, based on all his speech and behavior. Of the people who claim to be satisified with HSH, and Dave's products generally, based on the posts I read here, these are not serious gamblers, but are people whose handicapping may have been helped by use of them.

I think the problem is that Dave relentlessly overhypes products that, for most handicappers, will offer only modest improvement in their results, at best. If he dropped the hype and the doubletalk, and dealt with the handicapping public in a more honest manner, the complaints would disppear.

Cheers,



Lansdale........

I've been an HSH user since 2001. I fall into the second category of HSH user's that you've described. I've got limited t-bred handicapping skills (previous 25+ years spent 'capping harness racing) and computer/statiscal are also limited..........Just your average JOE!!

I play the game for fun!!! Dave has provided me with the equivalent of a B.S. & M.A. in T-Bred Handicapping. Dave has always preached "I'm providing you with the basic tools.........now go out and formulate your own personal strategy. That's what I try to accomplish.

NEW PACE flat out works for ME!! I am now a small profitable winner (all my HSH expenses are now paid for by HSH profits + a few $'s left over for fun!!). For me, any additions and costs of further developments in NEW PACE has been worth any additonal costs and time expenditures. After all, this is a fluid game, so continuing improvements to a product (which works for me) makes sense to me. Will I ever be a serious player.......probably not, as it's not my number 1 priority.

Finally, Dave is very very much a people person and I think most folks that interact with him come away with a very positive experience. I understand that one cannot satisfy 100% of the folks all the time.

My Dave Schwartz & HSH rating :4: :ThmbUp:

This endorsement is made objectively by Mr Baseball who has no ties with the above mentioned product and owner of such product.

[Greyfox]

Patrick,

I do not know why you (or Sly) would not understand this.

I produce software. That software runs on downloads. It is my responsibility to make sure that the software works as advertised. It is not my responsibility to teach you how to win. It is your responsibility to accomplish that.



Exactly. :ThmbUp:

A tool is only as good as the craftsman that is using it.

Some horseplayers have an unconscious desire to lose, despite their protestations to the contrary. The best software in the world cannot overcome that.

The bottom line is: "If something isn't working for you, do something different."

HSH software, no matter how good it is, will not be for everyone.
If a consumer buys it and it works - great.
If it doesn't, they should move on.
In many instances, they should consider not playing the ponies at all.
Don't blame a software that has worked for others.
Instead, look in the mirror and be honest with the man looking back at you.

Maybe the following poem is applicable here:

The Man In The Glass Peter Dale Wimbrow Sr.


http://www.inspirationpeak.com/images/shareyourpoem.gif (http://www.inspirationpeak.com/share-a-poem.html)
When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn’t your father, or mother, or wife
Whose judgment upon you must pass
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass.

He’s the fellow to please – never mind all the rest
For he’s with you, clear to the end
And you’ve passed your most difficult, dangerous test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.

[EvenSteven]

I agree with Greyfox and
Handicapping is very individualistic and characters are welcome. God bless America, but let’s not talk politics. Some want handouts oops sorry I didn’t mean to talk politics.
HSH is very powerful, individualistic program and not for everyone as it should be.
It could be argued New Pace is for everyone.
Dave is great mentor who will expand your thinking. He is always available when you need help and with Skype you can hook up with other users who are helpful.
This is an interesting and challenging endeavor we are on and leaving plenty of room to do whatever we want. Which makes it great.

[Milo F]

HSH user for 1 1/2 years

Horse Racing Handicapping = Complex

HSH

support = most supported software I have ever used

complicated = Yes

learning curve = steep but once mastered -look out

capabilities =almost endless. Up to the user to tweak the software the way he would handicap and bet various race conditions and various tracks. Once tweaked, betting a race is as simple as 1, 2, 3

production = short of a staff of 5 and a Cray computer, the best

Dave = he knows the subject and genuinely loves what he does

New Pace = More like a turn-key handicapping solution but with tons of tweaking possibilities.

If you do not like the New Pace approach for a particular type of race at track X, then switch to 1 of x squared approaches available in HSH.

I am very pleased with HSH and highly recommend it.

Milo Fuller

[Tom]

I've been a customer of Dave's since about 1993 - Brainwaves and his pars.
He was recommended by Tom Brohamer.....good enough for me.
I have bought a few things from hims over the years, and always been satisfied.

0 complaints here.

[thaskalos]

I am also one of Dave's satisfied customers.

I find him to be a very honest, very knowledgeable person...who is very generous with his time -- even with those who have never bought anything from him.

As I recall...my very first phone call to him lasted almost two hours.

I don't agree with everything that he has to say...and I would be terribly disappointed in him if I did...

[shrink 1]

I am also a very satisfied customer. I have had more support from Dave then anyone else I have ever dealt with. He always returns e-mails promptly, and is very available for support. I just started using HSH abou a year and a 1/2 ago, and have made more money using it with New Pace then with any other piece of software I have hd, and I have had many. Yes the software is not for everyone, but, as previously stated once you've mastered it you're good to go. I have the utmost respect for Dave.

[PaceAdvantage]

OK, I'll rephrase. Do you own, and are you currently using HSH?As you may or may not know, the name "PaceAdvantage" originated with a piece of software I wrote and marketed during the early 1990s. I am a programmer at heart, so when I am using software, first and foremost, I like to use my own.

When I have used software written by others (and I have tried a whole bunch...NetCapper, Synergism, HSH, HTR, AllWays and a bunch of other BRIS products, plus some I'm sure I've forgotten), the two that I have stuck with over the years are HSH and HTR, because these are the two that have resonated with me personally the most. I believe they are both excellent in their own right, and they both use the HDW data files. But again, I always seem to come back to my own.

Currently, I am not using any software...I have strictly been using cj's PaceFigures.com numbers.

Take all this for what it's worth...which probably isn't much. When I get around to having more time in my life, I plan to reacquaint myself with Dave's latest offerings, starting with his Renegade Handicapper video seminar.

[Dave Schwartz]

First, I'd like to offer a sincere "thank you" to all of you who offered support in this thread. I'd also like to offer a special thank you to those who have provided financial support over the 22 years we've been in business. Do you know that I have clients who have been with me for 20 years or more?

This is a tough business and a tough crowd. We (in the horse racing game) are fighting what is for 98% of us, a losing battle. The game is hard and anybody who tells you otherwise is out to lunch.

In a world where "normal" is that only 2% win, on average my HSH users win ten times more often. That is a heck of an impact value, but I would like to see it rise even higher. I think we can double that figure.

If 20% of our users win, what about the other 80%? In an environment which is as performance-based as this one, it is quite natural to blame the tools if one is in that lower 80%. However, most of my users do not. Instead, they ask questions like, "How do I improve?" or "How do I do it better?" or "What do I need to learn?"

The few that say, "The software is no good," will usually move on to other software, which will also turn out to be not good enough. In all fairness, if I am not going to take credit for the 80% who do not win, then I do not get to take credit for the 20% that do win.

That is really the point: The software does not MAKE you win. YOU make you win.

Make no mistake - the HSH software is VERY GOOD. With a true understanding of the horse racing game, the right attitude about winning and losing, control of one's emotions, and a real grasp of the techniques necessary to make HSH "sing," winning at the races becomes possible and even probable.

However, remove any of those components and the player will probably be doomed to the lower 98%.

This is not to say that people cannot win with other software. They do it all the time. If you are a golfer who needs to hit the ball 300 yards off the tee, my belief is that you could do it with a 3 wood, but a driver is probably the better choice.

I build industrial strength software for players that desire to play at an industrial strength level. "It is not for everyone," is a very applicable statement.

Recently, I was asked by someone why they could not "try" the software to see if they liked it. My answer, as it has been for years, is to say that if I offered a trial, 95% of the users would send it back on day three. The software comes with so many alternatives that it can be very intimidating.

Note: Someone once described the HSH flow chart as a circle with arrows pointed in all directions. It is that flexibility that causes people to keep using it for years after they get past day 3. But the complexity that comes with that flexibility is what makes people want to send the program back on day 3!

Once the user gets past day 7 or 8, a light usually goes on. After a couple of months, such a user wouldn't send the program back even if he could.

We had a user once, about 3-4 versions back, who said that he was not going to make a single bet until he had mastered every facet of the software. I told him that he was wasting his time because I would be adding new features faster than he could learn; that he'd never catch up.

The good news is that the software now comes with a very powerful strategy "out of the box" so that the user does not really have to understand very much of the program to come very close to being even on day one. (Okay, maybe day four.) This is where the phrase, "almost turnkey" comes from.

And for anyone who thinks that is a small feat I assure you it is not.

The few naysayers that pop up once in awhile simply never got HSH to work for them. Why is that? Experience has shown that usually it is because they either insisted on doing it themselves, without asking for help. I have a couple of new users right now who fall into that category.

No matter how often I suggest that they join our group on Skype they do not. This group is like 40 users who are there every day, helping, learning and coaching each other. A couple of them "joined" but are never there. I have seen this before. They will drop out after two months and lament the loss of their investment in HSH. Too bad, because they could have done so much more.

We have a wonderful group of guys on Skype. It is very powerful. It makes that "day 3 challenge" go away by day 5 or 6.

Those people who say I "over-hype" products are just way off base. Does this post sound like hype? LOL - Not exactly a "sales piece" is it? I really do try to tell it like it is.

Okay, I have droned on for too long already. So, here is the summary:

1. HSH is very good software.

2. If you purchase it, on day 3 you will probably throw your hands up in the air and say, "What have I done? I may have wasted my money."

3. However, if you join the Skype group and asked for help with a willingness to learn, by day 7 or 8 you will begin to "get it." When you do, racing for you will change forever.

4. On a scale of 1-to-10 in this industry, our software is a "10" for power, complexity and flexibility. The closest thing to it is probably "All-Ways" which I would place at about "3" by comparison. Yes, there is THAT much difference.


Please forgive me for droning on so long, but I needed to get this off my chest.

Oh, and one more thing... PA and I are "friends." We have been friends for like 20 years. He has graciously allowed me to post here as an "advertiser" despite the fact that I have never paid him a penny for advertising. I do, on occasion, say "thank you" by sending he and his lovely wife out to dinner, and anything I produce will always be his at no cost.

I think it is safe to say that PA cannot be "bought" for a couple of dinners a year.


Best to all,
Dave Schwartz

[Greyfox]

Oh, and one more thing... PA and I are "friends." We have been friends for like 20 years. He has graciously allowed me to post here as an "advertiser" despite the fact that I have never paid him a penny for advertising. I do, on occasion, say "thank you" by sending he and his lovely wife out to dinner, and anything I produce will always be his at no cost.

I think it is safe to say that PA cannot be "bought" for a couple of dinners a year.


Best to all,
Dave Schwartz

Your software is reputedly A-1.

What does that comment say to other paid advertisers here though??

[Dave Schwartz]

Well, I do send him out for some VERY NICE dinners.

<G>

[PaceAdvantage]

What does that comment say to other paid advertisers here though??It says that PaceAdvantage.com can not live on friends alone.

[PaceAdvantage]

The naysayers + Dave are starting to give me the HSH itch...Dave might be getting a phone call from me sooner than he thinks... :lol:

[Capper Al]

I thought you said you didn't use software?

I am also one of Dave's satisfied customers.

I find him to be a very honest, very knowledgeable person...who is very generous with his time -- even with those who have never bought anything from him.

As I recall...my very first phone call to him lasted almost two hours.

I don't agree with everything that he has to say...and I would be terribly disappointed in him if I did...

[facorsig]

I have been using software for handicapping horse races for the last sixteen years, more than six years with HSH and about ten years with ALL IN ONE.

I was "happy" with ALL IN ONE, but thrilled with my conversion to HSH.

In my opinion, there are former HSH users who wanted to take products released to the general public as gospel for profitability...no different than buying a tip sheet. They were unwilling or incapable to make improvements to the system. The tool requires work by the user. I don't see that Dave Schwartz has obscured this opinion.

The HSH product enables success. In my opinion, it enables success to a greater extent that other products, but I have only used a handful. The devil of HSH is flexibility. Users are confounded by an infinite range of possibilities. Many users are resistant to change and endure the consequences.

I could not represent that HSH is superior to alternatives without testing all, but given my depth of exposure to technical software I am supremely confident that HSH is the best product on the market today.

[Capper Al]

I only saw a demo of Dave's product. It seemed fine to me for those who buy software. I did purchase Dave's book Percentages and Probabilities 2012 and have read it about 3 times. The book is 427 pages. I recommend the book especially for those who want to look at stats. Dave did answer my questions.

I have read in this thread a lot of criticism about Dave always selling new updates like New Pace, one after the other. It comes with the territory in the software development business. If one is doing R&D and coding it, there is always something new to add. Sure Dave is making money at it, but it is what he does for a living.

I have been saying for the last two years here that I was just around the corner from completing my software app and starting my database. Well, Giles comes around with some neat stuff in Extreme Pace and I add this in. My version of New Pace which is an interpretation of Giles. Then I read Dave's book and find some stats that I can take advantage of. Now I'm modifying my app again. This I swear is the end of it. I am not going to read anymore books until I complete my software and build my database. It's never finished.

[lsosa54]

I thought you said you didn't use software?

Think he said currently, no?

[bigmack]

I thought you said you didn't use software?
Try and keep upped. Does Schvartzie only sell software?
--

How a Massa, Platt, Purdy or whomeva deal with schnooks is beyond me.

B2B is the only way to scoot.

No matter how advanced the program ya gotta bust a hump to walk away a consistent weiner at this most brutal game.

Oddly enough, I've found lazy people/easy gain types, complain the most in life.

[DeltaLover]

Is this the software we are talking about?

http://store.thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/products/The-HorseStreet-Handicapper.html

What exactly is doing? Is there any demo, trial or tutorial we can read about?

[Kevroc]

I've found lazy people/easy gain types, complain the most in life.


This is the worst post I've ever skimmed in my life!

:)



I find Dave to be just aces. Look, we all have the freedomto do with our money what we choose to. Invest in Apple or Lucky Lindy in the 7th race.

Whenever someone charges money for a product, they will inevitably have fans and detractors.

I checked out NewPace when it came out and I liked it very much. I saw some screenshots of HSH and thought it would be something that could enhance my handicapping experience (results AND time).

It IS a bit daunting at first. It has lots of bells and whistles. The support is top notch and the user community is amazing. The flow of ideas are great and I would say it is worth getting involved just for that alone.

The phrase "turnkey" makes me whince somewhat myself, as we know nothing as that easy. But, as an owner of fantastic NP button, I can say that it IS turnkey in the fact that it runs the sequence of events in mere seconds, that would take minutes to do by hand. My favorite part is that the legs within the sequence are customizable and you can tweak it however you like.

Add it all together, the community, the tools, the support and in my opinion it is all worth it. No gambling aid or investment tool can just plop the money in your pocket, even the most complex trading algorithims must be tweaked and maintained.

I am NOT flat-bet profitable but, I am a satisfied customer and we are always learning and always getting better.

[MartyZee]

To all you complainers-THIS IS AMERICA THE GREATET COUNTRY IN THE WORLD-NOBODY FORCES ANYONE TO BUY ANYTHING-COMPANIES ARE FOREVER TRYING TO IMPROVE THEIR PRODUCTS-SHOULD IT BE A COMPUTER;CELL PHONE;T.V. ETC; I don't recall not paying for these new improved items and i'm not saying that the "older models" don't work-THE choice is yours;I have about 15 types of horse racing software some work better for me than others( I use 2 or 3 for most of my handicapping); NOBODY FORCED ME TO BUY ANY ONE OF THEM; LEAVE THESE GUYS ALONE(RIGHT now the target seems to be Dave S by some of you individuals).I will tell you that his customer service is 2nd to none-He is a standup guy and is entitled to make a living-Thans Marty

[PaceAdvantage]

I thought you said you didn't use software?I don't see anywhere in his reply where he states he IS using software. Dave has plenty of non-software products...

[pktruckdriver]

Patrick,

I do not know why you (or Sly) would not understand this.

I produce software. That software runs on downloads. It is my responsibility to make sure that the software works as advertised. It is not my responsibility to teach you how to win. It is your responsibility to accomplish that.

I do, however, put on many free workshops to do just that. Heck, I even do free workshops for people who have never purchased anything (and many never will).

Besides, the manual version of NewPace (Advanced version) IS part of the HSH installation! No extra charge whatsoever. Even if you didn't buy the video version!

And for the record, the NewPace button has been available to ALL users for several weeks. So, while you were so busy complaining, you could have been using the NewPace button all along. But that wouldn't work for you because then you would not have anything to complain about, right?

(This feature will go away on Friday.)

Because of many, many requests from HSH users, I took a couple of hundred programming hours to make the NewPace task so easy that it could be accomplished with the click of a single button. (This also included a several very powerful utilities that greatly enhance the task of handling hundreds of different systems.)

BTW, one of the hardest tasks was to make the NewPace system flexible enough that the individual user could customize it to suit his own needs. After all, if we're all on the same horses, then nothing will work for long.

Did I OWE all that to YOU without charge?

If I do OWE you everything I ever produce for free, then why would I still keep producing? What is my motivation? Is it because you have worked so hard to be a valuable customer?


Hello Dave

You are a sneaky guy, I do have the NP button available and did not even know it, may I ask how long has it been there, as I only downloaded this month, August, but do not remember seeing it when I started this month working with a few other users, and they mentioned where NP was on there version of H8 and I did not see it, this somehow got by me, guess my loss.

May I thank you for putting this on , if even for a few weeks, too bad I missed out noticing, it would habe been very interesting to see it action, as so many people, and these are people I know, are very happy with the newer version , The NP button, than the original version I have, and I believe them.

We seem to be like Hatfield and Mc Coy, and I did little to stop it, if anything , I kept the fire's going, why, well I seem to be all about me, which for me is to win, and I am also niave and trusting, or was. But upon looking back and seeing what has taken place and how what was and what is now has evolved into something that I thought I had to begin with, can not anyone see where I can get frustrated, being told here this works, and then 1yr later , what I had has been almost completely changed into a product that most likely works so much better now than when I got the opriginal, otherwise the original would still be out there, wouldn't it??

Now change and adapting is what should been done, this is obvious, even I can see this, (do I like it , no) but where I got mad was okay I bought this and did this, and it did not work, and now a year later after tweaking and fixing what did not work, it is now sold under the same name, Newpace but is a completely, revamped, almost new product and one that Dave has markteted as such and now sells for 250 or so, yeah this bothers me , when I paid for the original and it did not work well enough, nor did I get updates to it.

Yet even with this being my frame of mind, the way I see this scenario, others see it differently, claiming I could never win and and will always bitch bitch, bitch, and they will call me names and such, well that too is understandable, as I would not quit stating my opinion, even thou I had a right to, but there comes a time when all things must come to and end, yes.

This so called fued with Dave , is over, wiil I apologize for voicing my opinion, no I will not, I feel that I had the right to do this, and yet even when I still stated the rest of HSH is still very vast and overwhelming, as it is 1 humoungous program, and Newpace is ony 1 small portion of it, one that I got caught up in and forgot how much I missed the rest of the prgram too, thou it is still hard for me to grasp and use, as my mind finds it hard to understand it all, but some of it is easy enough even for me , and this is what makes me think Dave cared for people like , the ones who were a little slow and had trouble with computers and such.

Yes , Dave has worked hard and long on making something in his extensive program which has a big reputation as being hard to learn and overwhelming, yet he has done the following, as he claim's and others say too.

He has made system in his program that he states is only a few clicks here and there and you have your bets , what he stated as a ,"Almost Turn-key System" , he must of made this for me, a guy who was having trouble with figuring out the more complex program and somehow kept getting it wrong, but now there is something much more easy to use, something that even me could use, thou I have yet to see it in action, as I have been banned from all the workshops and groups, for being a disgruntled user who spoke out, God Forgive me, yet the fued we had was great for Dave's business, that I am sure of, but I want it all to end today and but I am sure Bossman and others will take this post and twist it around someway, and that too is okay, I am use to it by now.

Best of Luck Dave , and thanks for making H8 so dang user friendly, if you got time or could suggest someone to help me learn how easy it is now , please put them in contact with me, I would like to take another look as I always knew you were a very smart and while not always the most patient guy, you were when it came to helping me , for a few year's you tried and tried to help me, for which I am thankful for, honestly I am, we both had our moments with each other, and I wish you nothing but the best.

But please at least let me evaluate your new , "Almost Turnkey System", or maybe someone who has been calling me names , will now be willing to show a few things, explain the new system to me, a few clicks does not sound to hard does it, I am a paying customer, if that matters.

Good day and Good Luck all

Patrick

[lansdale]

You pretty much couldn't be more wrong in that statement, which makes your opinion on this matter highly suspect in its entirety.

And i'm not sure why you're surprised not everyone is successful with Dave's software. There doesn't exist a piece of commercial software that turns everyone who uses it into a winner. Heck, there doesn't exist ANYTHING that turns all, or even a large portion of its user base into winners.

There are people in this world (lots of them in fact) who could find a way to lose money even if you gave them the winner of the race before it is run.

Hi PA,

I'm going to use this post to reply not only to you but to some of the other posts in this thread defending Dave. There's obviously much misunderstanding of the complaints regarding both him and HSH.

First, I am not nor have ever been an HSH client. But I have read many of his posts here, mostly on generic horseracing matter, but also in promoting and defending his products. When I've been critical of Dave's inflation of and overpromotion of his products, I've received a number of PMs from former HSH customers of his who weren't unnecessarily unhappy with the product, but with Dave's customer service. They claim that it's not that Dave doesn't provide customer service but that his explanations of the functioning of the complexities of HSH were unclear to the point of deception: basically doubletalk. Now it's possible that some of the people lacked the ability to deal with a program as complex as HSH, but the critics also included at least two people who were (and are) well-known and respected posters here - obviously intelligent and capable handicappers. What is the difference then, between the critics, and the satisified customers who are supporing Dave in this thread?

The pro-Dave posters seem to fall into two groups: old friends of Dave (Tom, Thaskalos) who like Dave and don't like seeing him criticized, but also who don't use HSH software and don't seem to know much about it. Tom, although he may have been a customer of Dave's in the past, uses HTR and CJ's numbers, to do his handicapping now, if I'm not mistaken. The classy Thaskalos (the only professional handicapper in the thread, AFAIK) also doesn't use HSH or any software, AFAIK.

Then there are the satisfied HSH customers, who AFAIK, are basically recreational handicappers, that is, a group not making long-term substantial profits, nor seemingly intending to do so. This is the group I alluded to in my previous post. Possibly this is the group toward which Dave's efforts are primarily aimed.

Possibly the confusion is contained in the very description of HSH as 'Professional' level software. What does this really mean? That it is software only suited to those who already possess professional, or at least sufficient research skill to profit from its use? Or does it mean the software will transform the average recreational handicapper into a professional, i.e. someone whose play will yield long-term profit. I would say the true answer is the former definition. And in saying that, I think I am agreeing with the majority of the posters in this thread, that software cannot transform your game or take it to a higher level, but only reflect the abilities you already possess. And typically only a very tiny percentage of users will truly profit from its use.

One of the things that I was hoping to see in the thread was a professional player who would step and say, "I made 87k this year using HSH". But no one did. Dave has claimed that there are people making vast sums using HSH, but non have ever posted here. Since no one has recently, I'll name a couple that I know of.

Some of you may remember Rook, a very successful Canadian player who used HSH, but of course only as part of his rather complex and highly proprietary handicapping software. Newer players, if they care to, can pull up the old thread in which the tempestuous Rook ripped Dave a new one over a disagreement on the value of some of Dave's stats. Another pro HSH player was Dick Schmidt, who has since abandoned handicapping as the game has declined, and moved on to trading the the FOREX market. But it's worth noting that these two highly gifted people were already doing fine before they began using HSH, although they both found it a useful enhancement, and because of their great skills, would have continued doing fine without it.

So the primary misunderstanding with HSH, and one Dave has fully encouraged, because it's so profitable to do so, (at least for him) is that it can transform people incapable of really using or fully understanding it into successful (long-term profitable) handicappers. Patrick, as I think he would admit, is a perfect example of this. And I would submit that all the recreational handicappers here, by definition, have no need for 'professional' level handicapping software, from which they will likely not profit in the long term.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Tom]

I became friends with Dave because of his excellent service and products.
I do not use HSH because it is too much program for me. I do not have the time to spend learning a whole new approach - HTR grew directly out of Sartin/Brohamer velocity aka Modern Pace Handicapping, so it was not only familiar to me, it was what I had been using for years.

I have bought Dave's pars, his newsletters, his new videos, all but the Renegade, only because I am behind and still haven't been able to really give New Pace my full attention yet. The Renegade will come soon enough.

[MartyZee]

Let me state that I am not Dave's friend although I would like to meet him; I've been betting horses for over 50 years and right now I use several of his products-Do I understand every aspect of what I bought-NO- has it made me a better and more selective player YES- Have I BOTHERED HIM OVER AND OVER AGAIN NO-He has always responded promptly to any e-mail or phone conversations that I have had with him; You have several people that advertise their products here- Jeff Platt(JCAPPER)/Ted Craven(RDSS) among them and as far as I'm concerned ( without knocking any other software guru's) these guys along with Dave are the best with their CUSTOMER SERVICE; Thanks Marty

[thaskalos]

I don't use HSH...and I would have never replied in this thread had it not been for the fact that you alluded to "all his many other products" as well, in your initial post here (#36).

You also stated that, in your opinion, it doesn't appear that those who are satisfied with "Dave's products generally"...are "serious players".

I have bought several things from Dave...I happen to be satisfied with them...and I consider myself a very serious player. So I felt that my response here was warranted.

Just as you seem to be swayed -- in your opinion of the man -- by the half-dozen negative PMs that you have received...I too am swayed, by the half-dozen times that I have communicated with him by phone.

Every one of our phone conversations has lasted for longer than two hours...and I have never gotten the impression that he is trying to "sell me something", or deceive me in any way.

Horse racing is my passion...and I have bought and read every single worthwhile product that has come down the pike in the last 30 years. A select few have been worthwhile...but the rest of them have been of dubious value...or even detrimental to the serious player's success in this game.

Nothing I have seen could be called "life-changing"...nor is it realistic to expect it to be.

"Success" is not something you can buy...in horse racing, or in anything else.

You work hard for it, you sacrifice...and still you may realize that you don't have what it takes to achieve it.

It appears to me that Dave Schwartz is the last man left in the horserace handicapping information business who is still conducting original research into this game...and for that, I salute him.

And I only wish that his enthusiasm for this game were contagious...

98% of the bettors may be losers in this game, I know that...but Dave is not part of the problem. He is part of the solution.

He is one of the "good guys"...and the game suffers because there are so few of them out there...

And that's my opinion...for what it's worth...

Best regards to you...and please know that my respect for you remains intact.

I find your posts refreshing...and I wish you would post more often. :ThmbUp:

[barn32]

There are some very odd replies in this thread.

One guy said you don't have a right to complain. People who rarely post are coming out of the woodwork to show their support. Is somebody working the phones? There's even a reply from someone who has only made 6 posts in 7 years.

A few years back a very good friend of mine purchased HSH. He was lost and asked me if I would be interested taking a look and helping him out. I was intrigued, so together we tried to work our way through it. We talked on the phone and by email with a half a dozen other users, and after getting down and dirty we found out that only two of them were betting real money, and one of them actually used the racing form for most of his decisions.

And remember, it was touted as the greatest and most powerful software on the market. This was before Newpace, Renegade Handicapper and Monty Hall. (There always seems to be something "new" and "powerful" looming on the horizon.)

The only conclusion we could come to was that people were embarrassed to admit that they weren't making any money with HSH. And some of those people were (are?) some very intelligent, high profile posters here on this forum, who for one reason or another were unwilling to come forward and admit their total frustration with this product.

PA's claim that there are only "one or two" complainers about HSH is just flat out wrong.

Others here who showed support for DS have basically admitted (albeit indirectly) that they don't currently own or use HSH. (Tom? PA? Thaskalos?) So how would they know anything at all about its ease of use or money making capability?

Here are some facts:

1. HSH is the most overly complicated piece of software I have ever seen
2. If the owner, the one who wrote the software, is constantly making mistakes with its operation (watch his videos) then how on earth is a layman ever going to get it right.
3. None of the HSH users ever post selections or results. They just say how great it is and how well they are doing. Others admit they're not making any money--yet--but if they stick with it...
4. My friend's posts on the old HSH bulletin board were often deleted, because DS would not tolerate any negative feedback.
5. DS constantly dunned my friend for money for support. If you didn't download monthly you were also chastised. Why download monthly if you can't figure out how to use the software let alone make any money with it?

We were constantly asking ourselves, "Why is this software so damn convoluted? Why is it always crashing? Why is the design so fricking awkward?" The programming was just mind boggling. It didn't make any sense that it should be so difficult to use. The biggest hurdle was just figuring out how to get going. Why would anyone design something like that? (Compare this to something like HTR, which has a learning curve, but my God it is infinitely easier to use once you've acquainted yourself with the processes. And I don't remember HTR ever crashing on me.)

In my opinion, DS makes his living selling software and from the monthly download fees. After all, if you are getting ~$65 a month from 50 to 300 users, that's a living. And I have seen no conclusive evidence whatsoever that he makes any or some part of his living actually wagering, even though he often bragged to my friend about how he had an office set up in New York with several full time employees who did nothing but bet with offshore books using his software.

He also tried very hard to get my buddy to set up an offshore account, and he admitted to him that he would get a "piece" of his action.

And don't think we tried to figure out HSH and then gave up after a few weeks. Together we spent hundreds of hours trying to piece things together and we finally just threw our hands up and realized he (we) had wasted a lot of time and money on something that simply did not work.

I may not be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but my buddy was a retired electrical engineer with a background in economics. He had several successful patents and retired early. He just played poker and bet sports to supplement his retirement income.

I wish I could give you the names of posters on this site who we were in contact with that shared our sentiments exactly, but we gave our word that we would not.

And yes, he voiced some negative sentiment about DS and HSH on this forum some years back, and after being shouted down he simply went on about his life and gave up on this website.

And I of course will also be shouted down, but I only come around here every four years anyway, so it's of no consequence to me. I have no problem speaking the truth regardless of what people might think.

Go here (http://thehorsehandicappingauthority.com/episode-1-hsh-insiders-club/)and watch this video, and after viewing it tell me if you think this even remotely resembles anything whatsoever to do with "turnkey."

Caveat Emptor, ladies and gentlemen. Caveat Emptor. If it's too good to be true...

[Track Collector]

I think there are two different aspects when it comes to this topic.

The first one involves the products themselves. There are many excellent handicapping software programs out there which have the potential to take the user to a much higher level than they are currently at. Potential purchasers should select one that compliments their own approach to handicapping. I feel very confident in stating that a key factor to achieving success with a given piece of handicapping software is the skill set the user already has prior to purchasing subject software. One needs to be able to think critically AND to work hard. Then the software can be the tool used to achieve financial success.

The second aspect involves how the products themselves are marketed. Dave's personality is one of high self-confidence, and this comes out naturally in the marketing of his handicapping products. Based on our own personality traits, we might find this type of approach inviting, or be turned off by it.

Some of the former HSH users may have legitimate gripes, while others may just be looking for someone else to blame. Like a previous poster mentioned, looking into "the mirror" honestly will help them to determine which group they are from.

[proximity]

The second aspect involves how the products themselves are marketed. Dave's personality is one of high self-confidence, and this comes out naturally in the marketing of his handicapping products. Based on our own personality traits, we might find this type of approach inviting, or be turned off by it. will either be attracted to this, or turned off. spills out extends to how he markets leaves no doubt that he is extremely confident in the products that he offers, and he has no trouble telling you that. It is the nature of his personality. In practice, this type of high-level enthusiasm will be attractive and inviting to some folks while turning others off. Ultimately, I suspect that it comes down to our own personality traits as to what type of marketing approach we prefer.


imo such a personality is not an asset in gambling and i definitely see extreme overconfidence and hyperactivity punished almost every night at poker. but that's a completely different topic.

the bottom line here is that given the extremely rocky history of the relationship patrick never should have paid for this new pace thing and if he tried to buy it (directly) dave never should have taken his money. in the end, they just couldn't help themselves.

btw, track are you just going to timonium only this week or next week too??

[Dave Schwartz]

the bottom line here is that given the extremely rocky history of the relationship patrick never should have paid for this new pace thing and if he tried to buy it (directly) dave never should have taken his money. in the end, they just couldn't help themselves.

Dave didn't.

[PaceAdvantage]

You are a sneaky guy, I do have the NP button available and did not even know it, may I ask how long has it been there, as I only downloaded this month, August, but do not remember seeing it when I started this month working with a few other users, and they mentioned where NP was on there version of H8 and I did not see it, this somehow got by me, guess my loss.Wait, WHAT? After years of doing nothing but complaining, YOU'RE STILL trying to use HSH? If that isn't a clear ENDORSEMENT of the product and the man, I don't know what is!

Given what you've written for the past two years, THE LAST THING I WOULD HAVE EVER EXPECTED YOU TO WRITE would be that not only are you still using HSH, but that you want to use OTHER DS products... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Some of you may remember Rook, a very successful Canadian player who used HSH, but of course only as part of his rather complex and highly proprietary handicapping software. Newer players, if they care to, can pull up the old thread in which the tempestuous Rook ripped Dave a new one over a disagreement on the value of some of Dave's stats.I remember Rook. Maybe he will chime in on this, as I know for a fact that he still lurks here. And your characterization of him being a very successful player is probably understated. Is he still using HSH? Hopefully, he sees this post.

[proximity]

Now change and adapting is what should been done, this is obvious, even I can see this, (do I like it , no) but where I got mad was okay I bought this and did this, and it did not work, and now a year later after tweaking and fixing what did not work, it is now sold under the same name, Newpace but is a completely, revamped, almost new product and one that Dave has markteted as such and now sells for 250 or so, yeah this bothers me , when I paid for the original and it did not work well enough, nor did I get updates to it.


????????????????????????

[PaceAdvantage]

There are some very odd replies in this thread....(rest of rant truncated to preserve server space)I know you've been itching to get this off your chest for quite some time. Hopefully, this reply of yours brings you some satisfaction. Don't want you turning into another Patrick.

You do realize LOTS of companies charge for support, including Microsoft. Do you not?

I don't note anything odd with the replies in this thread, however, your agenda has been duly noted.

Shouted down... :lol:

You must have an overly inflated image of yourself to think I or anyone else would waste our time shouting down someone with nothing to offer other than innuendo, anonymous PMs and opinion...and yes, make no mistake, you did not post facts..none of them verifiable. Simply opinion, because HSH wasn't the software for you. It's no surprise. I've purchased lots of software that didn't fit me or my playing style (NetCapper and Synergism VI come immediately to mind).

But you don't see me going around with my crying towel saying how NetCapper or Synergism is worthless, because I know they're not worthless to everyone. They were worthless to ME. Just like HSH was worthless to YOU and your anonymous pals.

OpenOffice was WORTHLESS to ME. Microsoft EXCEL was what I VALUED. Others see it differently, because OO is FREE while you have to pay for EXCEL. Perhaps this analogy will turn the light bulb on for you somewhat.

I get it. You pay for something, and it doesn't turn out to help you like you thought it would. I found myself in the same situation with the aforementioned handicapping programs. Maybe I should have gathered up all the unsatisfied users of those programs via PM and penned a little diatribe to make myself feel better?

Not my style. But hey, it looks good on you, so carry on.

I guess this is going to count as an "attack" or a "shout down," right barn?

Man up dude.

[Rook]

I remember Rook. Maybe he will chime in on this, as I know for a fact that he still lurks here. And your characterization of him being a very successful player is probably understated. Is he still using HSH? Hopefully, he sees this post.

I do lurk on a regular basis but generally will only post in a thread if my name is brought up, as I find it very time consuming to get involved.
I don't take back a word of what I have written over the years, so if anyone wants more detail on what I write today they can go through the archives.

I stopped incorporating HSH data into my homegrown program in January 2009. My four most profitable years have all come since I quit using it but in no way do I think it was because HSH was holding me back. It is simply because I am a better handicapper than I was a few years ago and I have a bigger bankroll to exploit my edge.

Since HSH was the only data source I was using for several months in 2004, I can attest that a horseplayer can turn a profit strictly using Dave's program.

In 2005 and beyond, other sources started taking on more importance. I embraced HTR for its comprehensive yet KISS approach. Equisim allowed me to easily build my own variables and DRF Formulator was invaluable for things like lifetime PPs and Beyers.

It’s not the tools that make a winning player... it's a dedication to improving oneself each passing year.

[Dave Schwartz]

It’s not the tools that make a winning player... it's a dedication to improving oneself each passing year.

That is a great quote.

:ThmbUp:

[pktruckdriver]

Wait, WHAT? After years of doing nothing but complaining, YOU'RE STILL trying to use HSH? If that isn't a clear ENDORSEMENT of the product and the man, I don't know what is!

Given what you've written for the past two years, THE LAST THING I WOULD HAVE EVER EXPECTED YOU TO WRITE would be that not only are you still using HSH, but that you want to use OTHER DS products... :lol:

Heck I think it was you Bossman who told me to try it one more time and see how , if any , it has improved since you were booted from the Skype groups and the rest of the HSH nation. You said all these people were stating how easy it was to use it now, not then, so ssince I have paid for HSH and it was there , I figured , why not look at it, again, but here is what I found, okay.

Yes , the so called NP button was on my Open Race screen, but when I push the NP button, nothing happens, except the screen goes blank, so I guess it does not work anyway, or maybe I was not told what few clicks to do before it would work, since I AM NOT ALLOWED TO BE IN THE GROUPS BECAUSE OF MY NEGATIVITY, which was understandable, Dave did not like negatavity or critisism of any kind and would boot you for it, as I was booted, unless you were Rook, so either the NP button I see is not active or I do not know how to use it properly, probally the latter, as is the case most of the time for me and HSH.


the bottom line here is that given the extremely rocky history of the relationship patrick never should have paid for this new pace thing and if he tried to buy it (directly) dave never should have taken his money. in the end, they just couldn't help themselves.

Dave took my money for many things, including the Original Newpace, but not the the completely new updated 250.00 version of Newpace, just to clear that up. Which is part of the new ,"Almost Turn-key System", with ' The Renegade" being the other halve of it, which Dave has shared with me, for which I am very thankful, as stated before.

Rook it was great to see you are still doing so well, while it seems I am still the struggling truck driver trying to find his among the many paths to better handicapping, yet speaking his mind from time to time and recieving the heat from some of it, most of it and Bossman would not want it any other way.

Everyone else have a nice day and best of luck

patrick

[PaceAdvantage]

Heck I think it was you Bossman who told me to try it one more time and see how , if any , it has improved since you were booted from the Skype groups and the rest of the HSH nation. You said all these people were stating how easy it was to use it now, not then, so ssince I have paid for HSH and it was there , I figured , why not look at it, again, but here is what I found, okay. Nope, not me...I never told you such a thing...and I have never been booted from anything...that must have been a typo on your part...

[Rook]

Dave did not like negatavity or critisism of any kind and would boot you for it, as I was booted, unless you were Rook,
I don't know why you are excluding me. I received the full Soviet style "let's pretend this guy never existed" treatment and all of my HSH board postings were airbrushed from history. So, based on that, there should be no surprise that my personal customer service grading of Dave is an F.

However, based on the loyal friends and customers he has made over the years, there is no question that my experience is in the minority. If you go along with his self assessment of being the "Handicapping Authority" and "the premier thinker in handicapping software", then A+ service is quite likely.

[JimG]

I don't know why you are excluding me. I received the full Soviet style "let's pretend this guy never existed" treatment and all of my HSH board postings were airbrushed from history. So, based on that, there should be no surprise that my personal customer service grading of Dave is an F.


Hi Rook,

I still read the old HSH board on occasion and I found these postings from you in the Handicapping Theory section, so you are still there in the history of the HSH evolution. I used to post there myself but my sign-on does not work anymore. Not sure if Dave yanked me or it was a board glitch. I'm betting a board glitch.

[Rook]

Hi Rook,

I still read the old HSH board on occasion and I found these postings from you in the Handicapping Theory section, so you are still there in the history of the HSH evolution.
It's nice to know that I've been restored:D Of course, it was hard for me to keep up with my status since I had been banned for a couple of years.

[lansdale]

I do lurk on a regular basis but generally will only post in a thread if my name is brought up, as I find it very time consuming to get involved.
I don't take back a word of what I have written over the years, so if anyone wants more detail on what I write today they can go through the archives.

I stopped incorporating HSH data into my homegrown program in January 2009. My four most profitable years have all come since I quit using it but in no way do I think it was because HSH was holding me back. It is simply because I am a better handicapper than I was a few years ago and I have a bigger bankroll to exploit my edge.

Since HSH was the only data source I was using for several months in 2004, I can attest that a horseplayer can turn a profit strictly using Dave's program.

In 2005 and beyond, other sources started taking on more importance. I embraced HTR for its comprehensive yet KISS approach. Equisim allowed me to easily build my own variables and DRF Formulator was invaluable for things like lifetime PPs and Beyers.

It’s not the tools that make a winning player... it's a dedication to improving oneself each passing year.

Hi Rook,

Thanks for taking the time to post in this thread. Maybe you can help clear up the picture about the source of the complaints about HSH.

Some of the things I remember about you: you're a dedicated lifettime handicapper with an exhaustive library of handicapping books, within recent years you had an an ROI on the order of 1.27, and about five or so years ago, you had per annum profit on the order of $450,000, and maybe best of all - as a Canadian, you don't have to pay a wagering tax. So, for those who don't know you, you are a very serious player.

Regarding your success, it's obvious its source is you, and not HSH, as Dave himself seems to agree in this thread. It also seems that you were using the program strictly to for data purposes - the massaging and transformation of the data were done by you. You weren't using any of Dave's apparently vast array of bells and whistles. Is this accurate?

You mention the KISS aspect of HSH. This seems contrary to what most people have said about the software's complexity. Can you elaborate on this?

Most of the complaints about Dave and HSH seem to center on his customer service. I remember you being very critical of Dave a few years back, and, as you point out, he banned you from his board. Obviously a number of people have a difficult time understanding his explanation of HSH, yet you still think his customer service is good? Can you elaborate?

Can you go into your background, and skill sets in a little more detail. I believe you mentioned using SPSS at one point, and I wondered what, if any background you have in using statistical software for research. I believe it's worth trying to get to the bottom of what separates handicappers who achieve consistent annual profits from those who are unable to do so, and possibly you could contribute to our understanding of this subject.

Thanks again, and happy to hear your success continues.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Rook]

Some of the things I remember about you: within recent years you had an an ROI on the order of 1.27...

My very best tracks would have returns like that but overall I aim for a 10% return after rebate.


It also seems that you were using the program strictly to for data purposes - the massaging and transformation of the data were done by you. You weren't using any of Dave's apparently vast array of bells and whistles. Is this accurate?

Yes, 100% accurate.


You mention the KISS aspect of HSH. This seems contrary to what most people have said about the software's complexity. Can you elaborate on this?

I mentioned the KISS aspect of HTR, not HSH.


Most of the complaints about Dave and HSH seem to center on his customer service. I remember you being very critical of Dave a few years back, and, as you point out, he banned you from his board. Obviously a number of people have a difficult time understanding his explanation of HSH, yet you still think his customer service is good? Can you elaborate?

The fact that he has many dedicated customers shows that he has treated many people well. There is no question that he is dedicated to racing and is available countless hours of the day.


Can you go into your background, and skill sets in a little more detail. I believe you mentioned using SPSS at one point, and I wondered what, if any background you have in using statistical software for research. I believe it's worth trying to get to the bottom of what separates handicappers who achieve consistent annual profits from those who are unable to do so, and possibly you could contribute to our understanding of this subject.

This thread is about HSH so I'm not going to let it get off track, but yes, SPSS is a program that I have used extensively over the years to build my equations.
The biggest thing that separates me from others is that I am a workaholic. I don't have cable TV or a cellphone to distract me from my business. Only my kids can pry me away from my computer.

[headhawg]

The biggest thing that separates me from others is that I am a workaholic. I don't have cable TV or a cellphone to distract me from my business.A statement that's quite a departure from some others who want to push a button and have the software pick out 60% winners or a cold superfecta. I think that just about sums it up, doesn't it?

[PaceAdvantage]

Most of the complaints about Dave and HSH seem to center on his customer service. That's really odd, because if anything, his customer service seems to be what people rave about most. The fact that Dave is very accessible and prompt in responding to emails and phone calls.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think this is going to be the thread where you will finally get your "revenge" or trap Dave into some sort of "gotcha" moment? Cause I have to tell you, it doesn't seem to be working all that well, especially your latest round of Rook questioning.

Why not stop beating around the bush and just say what you REALLY want to say.

Man up dude.

[pktruckdriver]

That's really odd, because if anything, his customer service seems to be what people rave about most. The fact that Dave is very accessible and prompt in responding to emails and phone calls.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think this is going to be the thread where you will finally get your "revenge" or trap Dave into some sort of "gotcha" moment? Cause I have to tell you, it doesn't seem to be working all that well, especially your latest round of Rook questioning.

Why not stop beating around the bush and just say what you REALLY want to say.

Man up dude.


Exactly, I the most gruntled HSH user know's Dave's customer service is among the best, he only ignores people like me, with reason of course, and recently he even was civil when I downloaded and had a few questions, he was prompt and courteous, that should say enough.

Yes Bossman , that was a typo as it was meant to say when I was booted from the Skype group, but I am sure it was you who suggested to look again, maybe it was more simple to use , as so many people could not be wrong , but maybe not. I know I need help with the new editon, but I am still banned , guess that's what banned for life means, lol.... oh well.


patrick

[PaceAdvantage]

Exactly, I the most gruntled HSH user know's Dave's customer service is among the best, he only ignores people like me, with reason of course, and recently he even was civil when I downloaded and had a few questions, he was prompt and courteous, that should say enough.

Yes Bossman , that was a typo as it was meant to say when I was booted from the Skype group, but I am sure it was you who suggested to look again, maybe it was more simple to use , as so many people could not be wrong , but maybe not. I know I need help with the new editon, but I am still banned , guess that's what banned for life means, lol.... oh well.


patrickI am so tired of this never-ending soap opera...enough already. Everyone knows how to contact Dave...you have a problem, give him a call, send a private message here, or go to his website...

[JimG]

I am so tired of this never-ending soap opera...enough already. Everyone knows how to contact Dave...you have a problem, give him a call, send a private message here, or go to his website...

Like sands through the hourglass, these are the HSH Days of Our Lives!!

[Dave Schwartz]

Patrick,

On those rare occasions when I have banned people from HSH communities it is because they have shown to have an agenda that was counter-productive to that of the group and the company. You certainly qualified for that.

As a rule, I generally let them know privately, that while they have every right to disagree with me, the group, or whatever else they choose to disagree with, the main purpose of their presence must be to further development.

After banning, if they are interested, they are generally offered the opportunity to come back, subject to the same restrictions (namely, moving towards the common goal rather than a personal agenda).

I followed this path precisely with you. How many times did I let you back in? I really don't know. Perhaps 2 or 3? Always your conversation would degenerate into this same old noise.

You purchased HSH. You have the right to use it. I would never stand in your way from that. However, your message has not changed: it is still the same shrill voice screaming about how you have been wronged. The Agenda is certainly not development.

For the record, we are not "Hatfield and McCoy." It is more like "Hatfield and Jones." Who is Jones? He is the guy that never bothered to feud with Hatfield. I do not have a feud going with you. The antagonistic relationship you offer today simply does not work for me.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[lansdale]

My very best tracks would have returns like that but overall I aim for a 10% return after rebate.


Yes, 100% accurate.


I mentioned the KISS aspect of HTR, not HSH.


The fact that he has many dedicated customers shows that he has treated many people well. There is no question that he is dedicated to racing and is available countless hours of the day.


This thread is about HSH so I'm not going to let it get off track, but yes, SPSS is a program that I have used extensively over the years to build my equations.
The biggest thing that separates me from others is that I am a workaholic. I don't have cable TV or a cellphone to distract me from my business. Only my kids can pry me away from my computer.

Rook,

Thanks for these informative responses, although it does seem somewhat ironic that, as one of Dave's severest critics, you now describe his customer service as A+ - possibly you mean for HSH customers other than yourself.

The question I asked about SPSS was less about the software, than to establish that you already had a background of some kind working with statistical software, and possibly some training and education in probability and statistics to go along with your encyclopedic knowledge of handicapping.
If I'm not infringing on your privacy, could you elaborate on any training and background that might be relevant to your handicapping success?

I think the most valuable point you've made here, and one which I remember from reading your posts years back, is that HSH played a very minor role in your success. And while I'm sure that you work hard, I still believe that your ability and background are crucial to that success.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

That's really odd, because if anything, his customer service seems to be what people rave about most. The fact that Dave is very accessible and prompt in responding to emails and phone calls.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think this is going to be the thread where you will finally get your "revenge" or trap Dave into some sort of "gotcha" moment? Cause I have to tell you, it doesn't seem to be working all that well, especially your latest round of Rook questioning.

Why not stop beating around the bush and just say what you REALLY want to say.

Man up dude.

Hi PA,

Man up? How do you know I'm not a woman? :-). Not sure what's going on in you're life but you seem much more defensive and edgy than I remember than when I was a more frequent visitor to this site.

Do you really construe the kind of mild criticism I've made of Dave as 'revenge'? Wow. Neither of you seem to have a clue as to what real criticism, or in fact any kind of rigorous examination of your work might actually be. Be that as it may, I'm not looking for 'revenge' because Dave has never harmed me in any way. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I've enjoyed many of Dave's posts here, and think he's a bright, knowledgeable guy, with some provocative ideas about handicapping. I had a very pleasant and informative phone conversation with him about 18 months ago. But there's another side of Dave that I don't care for: the huckster and the sideshow carny, who consistently overhypes products that may be solid, but hardly are the turbocharged 'gamechangers' of his sales chatter.

I can see now that the people who were critical of Dave's customer service and PMed me, were, as I said, not the recreational players who seem to comprise the bulk of his customer-base, and have lower expectations, but a smaller number serious and intelligent handicappers looking for a real return on their investment, who were misled by Dave's hype, and thus were unable to grasp that purchasing HSH would no more help them produce handicapping profits than a visit to a hardware store (a valid analogy) would turn them into professional contractors. Rook and Dick Schmidt were already 'professional contractors', and knew what do to with the tools in the 'hardware store' to produce profit. These people, who described Dave's responses to their questions about HSH as 'doubletalk', seems to indicate his difficulty in admitting this state of affairs.

Dave's sales rhetoric often employs logical contradictions and mutually contradictory terms, for example, the current iteration of New Pace, described as 'almost turnkey'. That's like saying 'almost pregnant'. Either it is or it isn't. And it isn't turnkey. Verbal bait-and-switch.

As has been stated numerous times in this thread, software, regardless of its complexity (and maybe because of its complexity) can't make you a winner. Beating this game not only requires hard work (which everyone knows, and most practice) but outstanding ability, a fact which few people seem willing to accept.

My posts are not an attempted 'takedown' of Dave, but a request to give his sales spiel a chill pill (has anyone seen a similar level of hype from Jeff Platt, Ken Massa, or CJ? - three vendors here, I greatly respect), and remember that honesty is the best policy.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Tom]

Massa and CJ pay my rent.

[Rook]

...it does seem somewhat ironic that, as one of Dave's severest critics, you now describe his customer service as A+ - possibly you mean for HSH customers other than yourself.

My point is that I believe it when people say that they have received excellent service from Dave. I also believe it when people claim that Dave treated them like crap.

Since he has such avid supporters, it is logical to assume that he has provided them with A+ service. Likewise, since there are also some ardent detractors, his fans should not be surprised when someone like me gives him an F. Neither side is lying


The question I asked about SPSS was less about the software, than to establish that you already had a background of some kind working with statistical software, and possibly some training and education in probability and statistics...

My only experience with statistical software is with SPSS. I have no idea whether it is better or worse than the other packages out there. It is just something that I have gotten used to after all of these years.


If I'm not infringing on your privacy, could you elaborate on any training and background that might be relevant to your handicapping success?

Everything has been self taught. I had no handicapping mentor and other than high school, I took no courses in computers. I had absolutely no interest in math while in university and was filled with resentment with the one class I was required to take in order to graduate.


And while I'm sure that you work hard, I still believe that your ability and background are crucial to that success.

Ability..yes. Background..no. Having a BA in Psychology and an Education degree are surely not the qualifications you were expecting.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hi PA,

Man up? How do you know I'm not a woman? :-). Not sure what's going on in you're life but you seem much more defensive and edgy than I remember than when I was a more frequent visitor to this site.Oh dear me...I will most certainly try and work on these negative character traits immediately.... :lol:

But there's another side of Dave that I don't care for: the huckster and the sideshow carny, who consistently overhypes products that may be solid, but hardly are the turbocharged 'gamechangers' of his sales chatter. Oh, is this the"mild" criticism part in action...yup...words like huckster are always included in my mild criticisms of vendors.... :lol: :lol:

I take back what I said earlier about working on my character traits...I don't trust your judgment now or your doubletalk.

Jcapper doesn't have similar hype? With apologies to Jeff for dragging him into this thread, let's take a look:

"...the very best thoroughbred handicapping software available anywhere"
" This is a true professional level program."
"Jcapper will improve your game and make you a better player. Can you put a price on that?"
"...the strongest factor set available anywhere"
"It explains in plain English how to use Jcapper to find a proven mathematical edge."

[traveler]

Hey Pa - are you suffering from a case of 'Mary Hart" syndrome? At any sign of criticism or questioning of DS or HSH you go into some sort of hyperbolic rant. For God's sake give it a rest.

Dragging Jeff Platt into this is a new low even for you. Waiting for the maniacal response - not.

BTW, I'm an HSH user on and off and have no intention of making positive or negative comments about DS or HSH in an open forum or within your "PM" area.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey Pa - are you suffering from a case of 'Mary Hart" syndrome? At any sign of criticism or questioning of DS or HSH you go into some sort of hyperbolic rant. For God's sake give it a rest.

Dragging Jeff Platt into this is a new low even for you. Waiting for the maniacal response - not.

BTW, I'm an HSH user on and off and have no intention of making positive or negative comments about DS or HSH in an open forum or within your "PM" area.Nothing hyperbolic or ranting about it. In fact, I consider a few choice contributors to this thread to be exactly that though. And when I see unfair piling on, I step in.

Oh, and for the record, I didn't bring Jeff into this. Good ol' lansdale was the first to mention him...I'm just clearing up the picture for lansdale, as he seems to be seriously misinformed.

And telling me to "give it a rest" implies I'm the one who started this avenue of the discussion. I am merely responding to allegations and inaccuracies pointed at someone I've known for almost 20 years.

But you do have a point. I probably should have deleted all these ridiculous posts to begin with...never too late for that I suppose.

[pktruckdriver]

Massa and CJ pay my rent.


Best Post you made in years Tom :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:



Patrick

[lsosa54]

No way Dave has better legs than Mary Hart - maybe Beth!

[speed]

No way Dave has better legs than Mary Hart - maybe Beth!
Not so quick, Dave's legs may not be Mary Hart quality, but his backside shake in heels is dreamy. :p

[lansdale]

My point is that I believe it when people say that they have received excellent service from Dave. I also believe it when people claim that Dave treated them like crap.

Since he has such avid supporters, it is logical to assume that he has provided them with A+ service. Likewise, since there are also some ardent detractors, his fans should not be surprised when someone like me gives him an F. Neither side is lying


My only experience with statistical software is with SPSS. I have no idea whether it is better or worse than the other packages out there. It is just something that I have gotten used to after all of these years.


Everything has been self taught. I had no handicapping mentor and other than high school, I took no courses in computers. I had absolutely no interest in math while in university and was filled with resentment with the one class I was required to take in order to graduate.


Ability..yes. Background..no. Having a BA in Psychology and an Education degree are surely not the qualifications you were expecting.

Rook,

Thanks for clearing up these last few issues. Your achievment even more amazing in light of your being self-taught in these areas.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

Oh dear me...I will most certainly try and work on these negative character traits immediately.... :lol:

Oh, is this the"mild" criticism part in action...yup...words like huckster are always included in my mild criticisms of vendors.... :lol: :lol:

I take back what I said earlier about working on my character traits...I don't trust your judgment now or your doubletalk.

Jcapper doesn't have similar hype? With apologies to Jeff for dragging him into this thread, let's take a look:

"...the very best thoroughbred handicapping software available anywhere"
" This is a true professional level program."
"Jcapper will improve your game and make you a better player. Can you put a price on that?"
"...the strongest factor set available anywhere"
"It explains in plain English how to use Jcapper to find a proven mathematical edge."

Hi PA,

Thanks for sharing.

Remember Sandy Koufax? One of the ways he was described was as 'playing in a higher league'. A couple of years a bio about him was published. The publisher was concerned about whether it would sell, because, after interviewing over 400 people who had dealt with Koufax, the author couldn't find anyone who would say anything bad about him. The book still sold. Have you have heard or read a negative comment about Jeff, or his software? Me neither. That because he's playing in a higher league.

I stand by what I wrote.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

I don't use HSH...and I would have never replied in this thread had it not been for the fact that you alluded to "all his many other products" as well, in your initial post here (#36).

You also stated that, in your opinion, it doesn't appear that those who are satisfied with "Dave's products generally"...are "serious players".

I have bought several things from Dave...I happen to be satisfied with them...and I consider myself a very serious player. So I felt that my response here was warranted.

Just as you seem to be swayed -- in your opinion of the man -- by the half-dozen negative PMs that you have received...I too am swayed, by the half-dozen times that I have communicated with him by phone.

Every one of our phone conversations has lasted for longer than two hours...and I have never gotten the impression that he is trying to "sell me something", or deceive me in any way.

Horse racing is my passion...and I have bought and read every single worthwhile product that has come down the pike in the last 30 years. A select few have been worthwhile...but the rest of them have been of dubious value...or even detrimental to the serious player's success in this game.

Nothing I have seen could be called "life-changing"...nor is it realistic to expect it to be.

"Success" is not something you can buy...in horse racing, or in anything else.

You work hard for it, you sacrifice...and still you may realize that you don't have what it takes to achieve it.

It appears to me that Dave Schwartz is the last man left in the horserace handicapping information business who is still conducting original research into this game...and for that, I salute him.

And I only wish that his enthusiasm for this game were contagious...

98% of the bettors may be losers in this game, I know that...but Dave is not part of the problem. He is part of the solution.

He is one of the "good guys"...and the game suffers because there are so few of them out there...

And that's my opinion...for what it's worth...

Best regards to you...and please know that my respect for you remains intact.

I find your posts refreshing...and I wish you would post more often. :ThmbUp:

Hi Thask,

Great post, as usual. If you read some of my later posts in this thread, you can see I agree with at least part of your assessment of Dave, and also what our differences may be. I think the key line in your post is that 'success cannot be bought'. Absolutely. But I think that at least some of Dave's, and am sure, other vendor's customers believe that it can. If pressed Dave would also agree that it can't, but I don't think he necessarily always communicates that clearly to potential sales prospects.

My only gambling activity now is in blackjack, so I'm rarely dropping by this site, but when I do, I make it a point to check your posts.

May all your scores be signers.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Dave Schwartz]

Patrick,

Here is a link to a short video on how to configure the NewPace button. It will work on your system for another two weeks.

http://www.horsestreet.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000118.html

[pktruckdriver]

Patrick,

Here is a link to a short video on how to configure the NewPace button. It will work on your system for another two weeks.

http://www.horsestreet.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000118.html


Thanks Dave :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


Patrick

[PaceAdvantage]

Hi PA,

Thanks for sharing.

Remember Sandy Koufax? One of the ways he was described was as 'playing in a higher league'. A couple of years a bio about him was published. The publisher was concerned about whether it would sell, because, after interviewing over 400 people who had dealt with Koufax, the author couldn't find anyone who would say anything bad about him. The book still sold. Have you have heard or read a negative comment about Jeff, or his software? Me neither. That because he's playing in a higher league.

I stand by what I wrote.

Cheers,

lansdaleI wasn't discussing the merits of either software. I was addressing your comment that Jeff doesn't hype his software. All sellers hype their wares. And my illustration shows Jeff is no different. I don't consider what he does or what Dave does a bad thing. You do. But only in the case of Dave, obviously.

If Jeff were Dave though, I'm sure you'd be clamoring for someone to step forward and prove that they were able to read that Help Doc and "use Jcapper to find a proven mathematical edge." Tell the truth now. You would, wouldn't you?

Yes you would.

But Jeff gets a pass, because you have no ax to grind with him.

[Speed Figure]

One thing I would like to see with Dave, Jeff & others is to take a Michael Pizzolla approach of putting out a video before the racing have gone off. Michael always makes a derby and breeders cup video. I don't think I've ever seem any of them do this. I don't care about what odds you need and all that other stuff! I'm interested in seeing how you handicapp and how you came up with horses you have. You can always say I would need 5/1 or better to bet this or that horse.

[Dave Schwartz]

Speed,

I have done that but not in years and only for fun.

Our paradigm is to make extreme use of the last minute tote odds. Many of us do not even open a race for the first time until there are 3 minutes (or less) until post time.

I have actually had races that I forgot to handicap and then played the rest AFTER the first horse was in the gate!

This approach does not lend itself to posting picks well-ahead of time.

[Topcat]

Rook has given you the secret, there is no secret:
"It’s not the tools that make a winning player... it's a dedication to improving oneself each passing year."

He might have to change his name to The Kaizen Kid!

Rook are you still betting trifectas?

Oh, and as to why some of us only post here once in a while, explaining what we do- or even in defense of Dave, well it is simply not a productive use of our time. It takes my ROI/ hour down.

One last thought to mull over: for some if using HSH means that they aren't betting the races that may be worth every penny they paid for it. Hmmm... that sounds harsher than I meant it but the point is not placing losing bets is an improvement.

[Speed Figure]

Speed,

I have done that but not in years and only for fun.

Our paradigm is to make extreme use of the last minute tote odds. Many of us do not even open a race for the first time until there are 3 minutes (or less) until post time.

I have actually had races that I forgot to handicap and then played the rest AFTER the first horse was in the gate!

This approach does not lend itself to posting picks well-ahead of time.
So your saying you couldn't do what you did on The Turnkey Solution: NewPace + The Renegade Handicapper video where you used pass races to show how the system worked. You couldn't do that same thing on an upcoming race card before the races went off? I'm only asking because I've never seen new pace used on a race before the race goes off. I've only seen new pace hit this and that after the fact. I don't know how new pace works as I've never used any of your products before.

[Capper Al]

All this publicity for HSH. Dave should have made a few more sales. Good for him.

[optionpro]

I NEVER post on this forum (life gets in the way) but there was a lot of nonsense posted in this thread, and I wanted to share my experience.

I used HSH up until a couple of years ago when my wife was taken ill. It is an awesome program. Dave is an original thinkers, and HSH incorporates virtually dozens of stand-alone methods that you can make your own.

You can study any parameter you can think of and you can crate very complex or very simple handicapping systems based on your techniques.

The downside is there is a steep learning curve and no one but Dave can master the entire program.

Also, there is no such thing as a system that requires no input from the handicapper, so you have to apply your own handicapping skills to HSH's output to confirm the selections make sense.

Dave and I handicap completely differently, but he never tries to force his ideas on anyone else and is always glad to help.

The complaints about customer service are ludicrous. Dave or his wife answer their own phone and I have never found Dave reluctant to get on the phone, or remotely access my computer to help solve a problem or explain something to me.

Regarding one of the more vocal critics of Dave, he has been complaining for a long time and, back when I was actively using HSH I once tried privately to help him. I found him "needy" and always complaining and backed away real fast.

Finally, regarding profitability, I was able to show a positive ROI with HSH on horses with odds of 8/5 to 10/1. The problem is there are a lot of seasonal and track considerations to maintaining profitability and right now I don't have the time.

The bottom line is there is nothing else on the market like HSH, and if you have the time, and can put in the effort, Dave will be with you all of the way.

Note: This is all I have to say. I am not into petty arguments and probably won't respond to any posts.

[Dave Schwartz]

So your saying you couldn't do what you did on The Turnkey Solution: NewPace + The Renegade Handicapper video where you used pass races to show how the system worked. You couldn't do that same thing on an upcoming race card before the races went off? I'm only asking because I've never seen new pace used on a race before the race goes off. I've only seen new pace hit this and that after the fact. I don't know how new pace works as I've never used any of your products before.

I can certainly do that at about 1 minute to post, just as the system was meant to work.

That is why I do "live play sessions" from time to time. I publicize them as much as possible, but rarely have any non-HSH users show up.

[Hosshead]

I watched the Turn Key video, and read (here) that this won't work unless you use the odds from about 1 min. or so to post.

So I am assuming that for most of us who aren't (computer) connected to the tote, we have to enter the current odds to all the horses by hand, with one min. to post? Then figure the dutch amounts and then get the bet in before they're off?


Or do you just enter the odds of only the 2 or 3 horses that are being dutched?

[Dave Schwartz]

Neither. The software gets the odds, scratches, etc. from the web for you at the click of a button.

[nat1223]

I have had the fun task of using HSH for roughly 2 years. I found myself listening to videos More than I actually played the races.. The cons of the software is that you can definitely get lost in the numerous video's Dave has made over the years and the seminars. I had so much info that I had no idea where to begin. Before I knew it, Dave was coming out with another way to handicap the races. It was tough for me to make any money with this software. I spent numerous hours working through angles with no avail.
However, with new pace I can see where Dave has a good angle here. Just go through numerous charts of results and u will see where Dave has a Positive point w new pace.. I can see how HSH users can turn a positive roi with new pace.
I don't use HSh anymore bc the software was to technical for me to stay focused one one area. However, I truly believe people do well with the software as I have seen it with my own eyes with other HSH users.
At the end of the day if a specific software works for you then great keep rolling w it..there will always be negative and positive reactions to anything you buy in life. Just bc you don't like a certain product doesn't mean everyone should hate it..
Gambling for a living in any arena is very difficult and only a small fraction can of people will succeed. For most people just have fun and don't quit your day job.

[Lefty]

I've said for a long time that the two most innovative minds in Racing were Doc Sartin and Dave. Now that
the Doc is gone, that leaves Dave.

[jkakos1]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Speed,

I have done that but not in years and only for fun.

Our paradigm is to make extreme use of the last minute tote odds. Many of us do not even open a race for the first time until there are 3 minutes (or less) until post time.

I have actually had races that I forgot to handicap and then played the rest AFTER the first horse was in the gate!

This approach does not lend itself to posting picks well-ahead of time.

How very convenient.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Speed,

I have done that but not in years and only for fun.

Our paradigm is to make extreme use of the last minute tote odds. Many of us do not even open a race for the first time until there are 3 minutes (or less) until post time.

I have actually had races that I forgot to handicap and then played the rest AFTER the first horse was in the gate!

This approach does not lend itself to posting picks well-ahead of time.

How very convenient.I knew that was you when you registered...you didn't waste much time confirming my gut instinct...