280K Workout

[Some_One]

Since I haven't seen it mentioned, Frankel will be performing a paid workout/running in the G1 Sussex on Wednesday. Only facing his usual rabbit, a Godolphin G1 place runner cutting back from 10 to 8f and a class 2 (think mid level allowance) winner. The race will be a prep, probably, for the Juddmonte 3 weeks later.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

This is just your standard G1 race in the UK. Not sure why you are calling it a prep. A prep for what? There is no reason to think the Juddmonte field will end up any different to this race in terms of quality. Frankel's last couple of races have all been the same as this one and the future races will be the same again. The goal is simply to retire unbeaten and nothing will be allowed to get in the way of that goal

It has gotten to the point where they should only grade races as G1 or G2 or G3 or Listed after the field jumps. No race should get a G1 classification unless it has 4 or 5 good quality horses in the race at least

[classhandicapper]

It's a shame, but this is what happens a lot of the time when one horse is viewed as close to unbeatable. Not many horses are going to be entered to face them and potentially waste what could be a winning effort running for second money.

At this stage, his connections have to make a decision. Either they think he can get 10F or they don't. If they think he can, it's time to find a more challenging spot to find out if he's just an all time a great miler or more than that.

If he's entered at 10F, a lot of people will view him as potentially vulnerable and take a shot against him. So it would get really interesting and exciting.

If they don't think he can run that far or their simply afraid to find out, then just retire him as an all time great miler and we'll all never know.

It's one thing to keep a horse fresh because you have a major long term objective in mind as long as you eventually do go "all in" in that big race. It's another to never take a shot.

[Tom]

There is always the WV Derby - a match race with Hansen.

[MaTH716]

There is always the WV Derby - a match race with Hansen.
Yeah, but it will end up being a walkover when Hansen opts out for an easier spot at Sunland.

[EJXD2]

Yeah, but it will end up being a walkover when Hansen opts out for an easier spot at Sunland.

That and Frankel can't run in the West Virginia Derby since he's a four-year-old

[classhandicapper]

Man, you guys are relentless. :lol:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t222/biarmampus/rodney_dangerfield.jpg

[Some_One]

It's a shame, but this is what happens a lot of the time when one horse is viewed as close to unbeatable. Not many horses are going to be entered to face them and potentially waste what could be a winning effort running for second money.

At this stage, his connections have to make a decision. Either they think he can get 10F or they don't. If they think he can, it's time to find a more challenging spot to find out if he's just an all time a great miler or more than that.

If he's entered at 10F, a lot of people will view him as potentially vulnerable and take a shot against him. So it would get really interesting and exciting.

If they don't think he can run that far or their simply afraid to find out, then just retire him as an all time great miler and we'll all never know.

It's one thing to keep a horse fresh because you have a major long term objective in mind as long as you eventually do go "all in" in that big race. It's another to never take a shot.


The connections I think have two options, either take the Z/Black Caviar route and be gutless and preserve the record and run in the Champion S or go for the glory and cement his place among the all time greats in the Arc.

[SharpCat]

The connections I think have two options, either take the Z/Black Caviar route and be gutless and preserve the record and run in the Champion S or go for the glory and cement his place among the all time greats in the Arc.


You might want to know what your talking about. Zenyatta ran in the biggest year end race the classic two years in a row and got beat the 2nd time. Black Caviar has raced almost exclusively in open company. She most certainly was not gutless last out at Royal Ascot. She tore 2 muscles, suffered severe bruising during the race and still beat the boys. That shows me she has tremendous heart and tallent.

[Some_One]

Yea he needed that one, looked he bounced winning by only 6. Looks like 8.3 Million was matched on Betfair in the race, 850 Thousand in the global tote pools.

[Some_One]

Crazy thing is that Farrah was coming into the race off timeform numbers of 124+ and 130, Frankel made him look like nothing as Dettori was all out far out from home, wouldn't be surprised to actually see another 140+ for Frankel and a 130 for Farrah.

[Steve R]

Crazy thing is that Farrah was coming into the race off timeform numbers of 124+ and 130, Frankel made him look like nothing as Dettori was all out far out from home, wouldn't be surprised to actually see another 140+ for Frankel and a 130 for Farrah.
Farhh earned a 128 from the Racing Post in his narrow loss to Nathaniel in the Coral-Eclipse last out. That 128 made him the co-third highest rated horse in Britain in 2012 equal to Camelot and ahead of So You Think and St Nicholas Abbey. For reference, 128 is the highest figure ever earned by Zenyatta and 3 pound higher than the best ever earned by Game On Dude. I think you may be right about the 140+ Timeform Rating for today's effort.

[horses4courses]

The connections I think have two options, either take the Z/Black Caviar route and be gutless and preserve the record and run in the Champion S or go for the glory and cement his place among the all time greats in the Arc.

The connections have never mentioned attempting a mile and a half.
Why would they?
Winning at ten furlongs would be an achievement, in itself.
York should be next.

Honestly, with some people, winning races is comparable to a video game.
Move up to the next level, or you have an "L" tattooed on your forehead. :rolleyes:

[Some_One]

140 Timeform for Frankel, 124 for Farhh

[cj]

Farhh earned a 128 from the Racing Post in his narrow loss to Nathaniel in the Coral-Eclipse last out. That 128 made him the co-third highest rated horse in Britain in 2012 equal to Camelot and ahead of So You Think and St Nicholas Abbey. For reference, 128 is the highest figure ever earned by Zenyatta and 3 pound higher than the best ever earned by Game On Dude. I think you may be right about the 140+ Timeform Rating for today's effort.

Z got a 131 TF when she won the BC Classic.

[Steve R]

Z got a 131 TF when she won the BC Classic.
And Farhh earned a TF 130 in the Coral-Eclipse, so Zenyatta and Farhh have the same top Racing Post Rating and differ by just one pound according to Timeform. Yet many still insist Frankel's competition has been inferior. In fact, he has defeated 17 Group I SWs from at least six countries in just 12 starts. I guess the Sussex race caller was correct when he noted that Frankel makes horses top class in their own right look "pedestrian".

[UK View]

For those who still doubt the brilliance of Frankel just take a look at Excelebration's last race, the Prix Jacques le Marois (Group 1) (3yo+) over 1 mile....
(Excelebration has been beaten by Frankel 4 times by 2.25,4,5 and 11 lengths and has won all his subsequents starts since his debut).
Last week he beat a top class field to take this strong G1.

He beat....
CITYSCAPE Dubai Duty Free Winner in a track record time.
ELUSIVE KATE 2 x G1 winner including the Prix Marcel Boussac on Arc day.
MOONLIGHT CLOUD 2 x G1 winner who was beaten a head by Black Caviar at Ascot.
GOLDEN LILAC 3 x G1 Winner including French Guineas and Oaks.
IMMORTAL VERSE 2 x G1 winner and conqeror of the great Goldikova.
FALLEN FOR YOU G1 Fillies Mile winner.
MOST IMPROVED G1 St James Palace winner (Royal Ascot).

Excelebration in any other year would be considered a magnificent champion.
I guess some people will always find faults, but in truth, there are none.
FRANKEL is by far the best horse I've ever seen.

[cj]

HeMGEsNnEAY

[classhandicapper]

For those who still doubt the brilliance of Frankel just take a look at Excelebration's last race, the Prix Jacques le Marois (Group 1) (3yo+) over 1 mile....
(Excelebration has been beaten by Frankel 4 times by 2.25,4,5 and 11 lengths and has won all his subsequents starts since his debut).
Last week he beat a top class field to take this strong G1.

He beat....
CITYSCAPE Dubai Duty Free Winner in a track record time.
ELUSIVE KATE 2 x G1 winner including the Prix Marcel Boussac on Arc day.
MOONLIGHT CLOUD 2 x G1 winner who was beaten a head by Black Caviar at Ascot.
GOLDEN LILAC 3 x G1 Winner including French Guineas and Oaks.
IMMORTAL VERSE 2 x G1 winner and conqeror of the great Goldikova.
FALLEN FOR YOU G1 Fillies Mile winner.
MOST IMPROVED G1 St James Palace winner (Royal Ascot).

Excelebration in any other year would be considered a magnificent champion.
I guess some people will always find faults, but in truth, there are none.
FRANKEL is by far the best horse I've ever seen.

Thanks for that update.

IMO there is little doubt at this point that Frankel is a total freak of a turf miler. Not that I follow Euro racing closely, but I've seen a few good ones in the US at the Breeder's Cup. It's hard to imagine there was someone clearly better than him.

[SharpCat]

Thanks for that update.

IMO there is little doubt at this point that Frankel is a total freak of a turf miler. Not that I follow Euro racing closely, but I've seen a few good ones in the US at the Breeder's Cup. It's hard to imagine there was someone clearly better than him.


It's hard to compare Frankel with say someone like Lure. In Europe miles are run either 1 turn long stretch, straight course, undulating ground, more give in the turf and the races are run with a slower pace. Excluding Belmont and Woodbine mile races are run 2 turns, shorter stretch, firmer turf and faster pace. I for one would love to see Frankel come over and try the Breeders Cup Mile.

[Some_One]

I think Frankel's 2000 Guineas showed he could go with the early pace here in North America. Funny thing might be the turns, I think tomorrow is the first time he'll be going left handed.

[Itamaraca]

For those who still doubt the brilliance of Frankel just take a look at Excelebration's last race, the Prix Jacques le Marois (Group 1) (3yo+) over 1 mile....
(Excelebration has been beaten by Frankel 4 times by 2.25,4,5 and 11 lengths and has won all his subsequents starts since his debut).
Last week he beat a top class field to take this strong G1.



World class ride by his jock.

[UK View]

I think Frankel's 2000 Guineas showed he could go with the early pace here in North America. Funny thing might be the turns, I think tomorrow is the first time he'll be going left handed.

Cant see that being a problem. Has shown no problems handling turns so far.

Would love to see him go to Breeders Cup but just won't happen. No interest from conections for the Mile. The only race would be the Classic (a shame its not a few years earlier as he wouldve certainly run at Santa Anita then).

[Some_One]

If he comes, it would be the Classic, the other races wouldn't prove anything.

[cj]

Cant see that being a problem. Has shown no problems handling turns so far.

Would love to see him go to Breeders Cup but just won't happen. No interest from conections for the Mile. The only race would be the Classic (a shame its not a few years earlier as he wouldve certainly run at Santa Anita then).

But running on Proride wouldn't have proved much either.

[Some_One]

Wow, absolutely wow, was cantering past the BC Turf champ while he was all out