Will France regret Hollande?

[DJofSD]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-france-budget-idUSBRE86307X20120704

[Steve 'StatMan']

Is it worth $7 Billion Euro (once, or per year) for the well to do to officially stay French citizens, and pay for all the other citizens extremely early retirements and health care benefits, etc? Even I'd tell them to mange merde and bid the country adieu.

[newtothegame]

" France's new Socialist government announced tax rises worth 7.2 billion euros on Wednesday, including heavy one-off levies on wealthy households and big corporations, to plug a revenue shortfall this year caused by flagging economic growth."
from the article above....
Notice it talks of a shortfall this year. I wonder what they will do next year once they realize they could just fleece the wealthy? I would imagine more taxes to come.....
:lol:

[DJofSD]

The champion of a moderate stimulus plan for Europe, at home French President Francois Hollande is turning his back on the sort of infrastructure investment he hopes will revive European growth.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/48314019

[TJDave]

Americans who give a s**t about France.

[horses4courses]

I know quite a few Americans who care more than a little bit about what is happening to the economies in Europe.
Greece and Spain are the flavors of the moment.

When it hits your own portfolio, the interest level tends to rise.

As far as France regretting Hollande's election?
Like the old song says.......

fFtGfyruroU

[mostpost]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/04/us-france-budget-idUSBRE86307X20120704
It seems that most of what France is doing in regard to taxes is returning to rates as they were before they were lowered by Sarkozy. Just as we should have returned long ago to the pre-Bush rates..

The French government is also going to cut spending. Raise taxes-cut spending.
Not just cut spending, Cutting spending impacts the poor. Raising taxes impacts the rich. Share the pain. They are doing what we should be doing. Not just end the Bush era tax cuts. Raise taxes above that. Don't just cut social programs. Cut Defense spending. Eliminate corporate welfare. Tax businesses and individuals on money made here and overseas.

[DJofSD]

It seems that most of what France is doing in regard to taxes is returning to rates as they were before they were lowered by Sarkozy. Just as we should have returned long ago to the pre-Bush rates..

The French government is also going to cut spending. Raise taxes-cut spending.
Not just cut spending, Cutting spending impacts the poor. Raising taxes impacts the rich. Share the pain. They are doing what we should be doing. Not just end the Bush era tax cuts. Raise taxes above that. Don't just cut social programs. Cut Defense spending. Eliminate corporate welfare. Tax businesses and individuals on money made here and overseas.
To expect anything different from you would be stupid.

[Tom]

mostie neglects to mention that the surplus Clinton built up came on the heels of lowering investment taxes to stimulate businesses, not increasing taxes to punish them.

But then, mostie never met a fact he couldn't spin.

[mostpost]

mostie neglects to mention that the surplus Clinton built up came on the heels of lowering investment taxes to stimulate businesses, not increasing taxes to punish them.

But then, mostie never met a fact he couldn't spin.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?DocID=161&Topic2id=30&Topic3id=39

Average effective Long term capital gains tax in 1993 was 23.3%
In 1997 it was 21.1% A drop of 2.2%
In 2000, Clintons last year, it was 19% Total drop of 4.3%
This would seem to support your argument and the lower rate may have contributed somewhat.

But look at what happened after 2000. The rate continued to drop throughout the 2000's ending up at 14.2%. The fact is that by every conceivable measure, at no point in the 2000's was the economy better than during Clinton's term of office, and at the end it was much worse.

You need to get away from this idea that taxes are levied to punish people. They are levied to pay for necessary services.

[delayjf]

But look at what happened after 2000. The rate continued to drop throughout the 2000's ending up at 14.2%. The fact is that by every conceivable measure, at no point in the 2000's was the economy better than during Clinton's term of office, and at the end it was much worse.

If it was worse it was not due to lower tax rates, Bush's tax cuts produced record tax revenue - we needed to cut entitlements.

Wasn't it you in an earlier thread admitting what a great stimulus military spending was. I also thought you were a big union guy, lots of Union jobs get funded by military spending.

[badcompany]

This is an interesting story, but nothing new. Union coerced price controls cause an industry to become uncompetitive. So, another price control, tariffs, must be put in place. The latter will serve to lower real wages of French consumers for the benefit of a favored industry.



http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/07/26/2012072601369.html

France Mulls Restrictions on Korean Car Imports. The French government is considering use of a safeguard clause in the Korea-EU free trade agreement on Korean-made cars as France’s car industry struggles.

The French auto industry is in the doldrums, with PSA Peugeot Citroën recently announcing the layoff of 8,000 staff. The safeguard clause enables the FTA signatories to raise tariffs again when imports of certain goods increase dramatically. It has never been applied against Korea.

[Tom]

You need to get away from this idea that taxes are levied to punish people. They are levied to pay for necessary services.

BS.

[NJ Stinks]

This is an interesting story, but nothing new. Union coerced price controls cause an industry to become uncompetitive. So, another price control, tariffs, must be put in place. The latter will serve to lower real wages of French consumers for the benefit of a favored industry.



I take it you favor South Korea paying it's autoworkers peanuts while French autoworkers lose their jobs. Fortunately, the French could care less what you think. France doesn't revolve around the idea that if something is cheap, nothing else matters.

Good for them. :ThmbUp:

[newtothegame]

I take it you favor South Korea paying it's autoworkers peanuts while French autoworkers lose their jobs. Fortunately, the French could care less what you think. France doesn't revolve around the idea that if something is cheap, nothing else matters.

Good for them. :ThmbUp:
No, NJ...here's a novel idea that you libs just can't get your head around. A company should (and does) pay whatever the market dictates. This means, (so you can fully understand how the private sector works) that a company can only pay its employees what allows it to remain competitive for its services or goods.

See, here's the ultimate in irony......YOU and the rest of libs want to tax those same companies. Ok, fair enough. But, what you ALWAYS fail to consider is by raising a companies cost (and taxes are a cost whether or not you like it), the company only has a few remedies.
1. Pass those cost onto consumers which could potentially price them out of the market. Especially in markets where there is global competition (and the global companies live in a more tax friendly haven).
2. find other ways to reduce cost to remain competitive (such as reducing the workforce in size or reducing the cost of each individual in that work force. (You see, this reduces wages....)
3. Move the company and or subsidiaries to more tax friendly environments. (gee, I wonder why huge businesses are moving out of California???)
4. And, ultimately when all else fails, lay the entire work force off and liquidate the company.
So now, here we are. You wish to raise taxes....which of the above choices do you want as the outcome??? There aren't too many other options on the table. These are just the few that come to mind. If you have others, I am more then willing to listen.
P.S. it rained most of the day where I am at and the store I work in did NOT make it sales goals today. You also understand that we schedule our employees based on sales projections....right? Guess what I am doing come morning? Sending people home early, reducing shifts to accomodate for the lack of sales. Guess I am a bad person as well for attempting to save JOBS.

[newtothegame]

I take it you favor South Korea paying it's autoworkers peanuts while French autoworkers lose their jobs. Fortunately, the French could care less what you think. France doesn't revolve around the idea that if something is cheap, nothing else matters.

Good for them. :ThmbUp:
I only wonder how much longer those same french people who "could care less" will have a viable car company? Seems the company cares as it is reducing its workforce by (what was the number above??) 8,000. I wonder if those people care. No worries though, the people still employed are fighting for every last dollar lol. And here I thought all those union people were about sharing and fair things. Will those still employed share their pay will those now unemployed??? :bang:

[bigmack]

I take it you favor South Korea paying it's autoworkers peanuts while French autoworkers lose their jobs. Fortunately, the French could care less what you think. France doesn't revolve around the idea that if something is cheap, nothing else matters.

Good for them. :ThmbUp:
How is it both you and your comrade haven't a clue what you're talking about?

Not only is Hyundai kicking the bejesus out of Peugeot (what a surprise) but they make an excellent product. So WTH are you talking about cheap?

AND the SoKorean workers DON'T work for peanuts. Know why? They're UNIONIZED! :lol:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304388004577530633898291296.html

Tell us more how you envy Europe over this ragtag of a country, you cosmopolitan, you.

[newtothegame]

Wonder what B.O. Sr. thinks about all this taxation???

Barack Obama Sr: Tax Rich At 100% Of Income


http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/07/26/Barack-Obama-Sr-Nothing-Stopping-Govt-From-Taxing-100-Of-Income

[Tom]

Hmmmmm, so socialism is hereditary!

[badcompany]

I only wonder how much longer those same french people who "could care less" will have a viable car company? Seems the company cares as it is reducing its workforce by (what was the number above??) 8,000. I wonder if those people care. No worries though, the people still employed are fighting for every last dollar lol. And here I thought all those union people were about sharing and fair things. Will those still employed share their pay will those now unemployed??? :bang:

Go easy on poor Stinks. He's having a hard time dealing with the reality that his union model has proved uncompetitive in the modern global economy. Of course, he can console himself with the notion that no one who isn't in a union is making any money, but, we all know that isn't the case. Just like we all know that 95% of the workforce makes more than minimum wage which contradicts the left's assertion that employers would pay employees pennies without it. Ironically, the only people affected by minimum wage are the most marginalized workers, the ones the left supposedly cares so much about.:cool:

[TJDave]

Not only is Hyundai kicking the bejesus out of Peugeot (what a surprise) but they make an excellent product.

'Reliable' is not in a French dictionary. I know this because I owned a Renault.

[NJ Stinks]

I only wonder how much longer those same french people who "could care less" will have a viable car company? Seems the company cares as it is reducing its workforce by (what was the number above??) 8,000. I wonder if those people care. No worries though, the people still employed are fighting for every last dollar lol. And here I thought all those union people were about sharing and fair things. Will those still employed share their pay will those now unemployed??? :bang:

I have no idea what you are talking about in this post or your other post, Newt. Here's what the article BC linked to said:

The French auto industry is in the doldrums, with PSA Peugeot Citroën recently announcing the layoff of 8,000 staff. The safeguard clause enables the FTA signatories to raise tariffs again when imports of certain goods increase dramatically. It has never been applied against Korea.


The French are raising tariffs on Korean cars to protect their auto industry. Furthermore, I said the French could care less what American conservatives think. Of course, the French care about the 8,000 French autoworkers laid off. That's why they are going to raise tariffs on Korean cars.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... I know this because I owned a Renault.

Oooh oooh... I had a snappy Alliance... really wanted a Le Car though...

[NJ Stinks]

How is it both you and your comrade haven't a clue what you're talking about?

Not only is Hyundai kicking the bejesus out of Peugeot (what a surprise) but they make an excellent product. So WTH are you talking about cheap?

AND the SoKorean workers DON'T work for peanuts. Know why? They're UNIONIZED! :lol:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304388004577530633898291296.html

Tell us more how you envy Europe over this ragtag of a country, you cosmopolitan, you.

Pay attention, if possible. I never said the Hyundei cars are an inferior product. I said the French are more concerned about their auto industry than they are in buying Korean cars that obviously are priced to compete in the French market.

As for the unions in the Korean auto industry, good for them. I hope their strike gets them reasonable wages, benefits, and the working conditions they are looking for. I don't know how much won a Korean needs to live comfortably there but I'll just take a wild guess :rolleyes: and say the French worker has a much better deal than the Korean worker.

Here's a link to an article on the Hyundei strike:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-11/hyundai-motor-faces-looming-strike-imperiling-momentum.html

[badcompany]

The French are raising tariffs on Korean cars to protect their auto industry. Furthermore, I said the French could care less what American conservatives think. Of course, the French care about the 8,000 French autoworkers laid off. That's why they are going to raise tariffs on Korean cars.

If the French cared so much, they wouldn't be buying those Korean cars, in the first place.

Tariff - Government protection of an inefficient domestic producer at the expense of the consumer.

[TJDave]

Oooh oooh... I had a snappy Alliance... really wanted a Le Car though...

Does not count...AMC cars.

I owned the real deal...a Dauphine.

[bigmack]

'Reliable' is not in a French dictionary. I know this because I owned a Renault.
You cannot be serious.

Who would make such a buying decision? I've had tons of Euro's over the years. Probably 6 Saabs. 5-6 Beemers. A few VW's. 2 Audi's. A couple of Porsche. But, Renault? No way, Jose.

If I own a restaurant and you come in consulting and I see you pull up in a FrogHead ride... You're outta there. :p

[TJDave]

You cannot be serious.

Who would make such a buying decision? I've had tons of Euro's over the years. Probably 6 Saabs. 5-6 Beemers. A few VW's. 2 Audi's. A couple of Porsche. But, Renault? No way, Jose.

If I own a restaurant and you come in consulting and I see you pull up in a FrogHead ride... You're outta there. :p

I was young, dumb, and full of optimism...Also broke.

So sue me.

[badcompany]

The French make great high-end booze. Other than that...

[TJDave]

Probably 6 Saabs.

So, like me, you came to conservatism late in life?

[bigmack]

So, like me, you came to conservatism late in life?
:D With the exception of maybe a Volvo or Prius, you can't tie poli-association with choice of vehicle.... OK, maybe you can.

I rolled right after watching the McLaughlin Group of yesteryear. Nothing Eleanor Clift or Jack Germond said, made sense. I thought they were nuts. I didn't want to be on a nutty team.
---

Just sold the Saab ragtop I had for a spell. Not before I had to replace the turbo. :ThmbDown:

[badcompany]

:D I rolled right after watching the McLaughlin Group of yesteryear. Nothing Eleanor Clift or Jack Germond said, made sense. I thought they were nuts. I didn't want to be on a nutty team.
:ThmbDown:

I wanna be on Monica Crowley's team:

W3YR3Ad2ZUQ

[BlueShoe]

Does not count...AMC cars.

I owned the real deal...a Dauphine.
When I was in high school for awhile my dream car was a Panhard Dyna Junior Roadster. If you know what that was you are either an old auto collector buff or very old with a good memory, or both. :D

[NJ Stinks]

If the French cared so much, they wouldn't be buying those Korean cars, in the first place.

Tariff - Government protection of an inefficient domestic producer at the expense of the consumer.

We just disagree. I say it's better to protect a country's auto industry and it's workers through tariffs than it is to lose the jobs but the consumer gets a nicer car.

Having said that, I do understand that Puegeot needs to make a more competitive car.

[NJ Stinks]

The French make great high-end booze. Other than that...

Yea, the French sure have nothing to offer. :rolleyes:

France Trade, Exports and Imports
By: EconomyWatch Content Date: 18 March 2010

France Trade

France's trade is one of the largest in the world. France exports and imports various raw materials, automobiles and electronic products. The country ranks sixth in the world in terms of export volumes and 5th when it comes to imports.

France Exports

In 2010, France’s exports totaled $456.8 billion including:



machinery and transportation equipment and aircraft
plastics, chemicals and pharmaceutical products
iron and steel
beverages
To export trading partners Germany (14.3%), Italy (8.7%), Spain (8.3%), UK (7.8%), Belgium (7.6%), US (5.8%), Netherlands (4.2%) Germany (14.9%), Spain (9.3%), Italy (8.9%), UK (8.1%), Belgium (7.3%), US (6.1%) and Netherlands (4.1%).

Link: http://www.economywatch.com/world_economy/france/export-import.html

[bigmack]

France exports and imports various raw materials, automobiles and electronic products.
Get a load of this NJ.

BadCo slides in a line about high end booze and he feels the need to come to the rescue in defense of France.

And then with raw materials, automobiles (Didn't he just say they make crap cars?) and ELECTRONIC parts? Like what, really long nose hair clippers?

Have ya seen their beaks? :p

http://www.thetouristtravel.com/archivos_subidos/Image/polynesia%20/gaulle.jpg

And next time you get smart like that, BadCo, think about the last time you enjoyed a nice plate of raw materials.

Nice work, NJ. :D

[badcompany]

Yea, the French sure have nothing to offer. :rolleyes:

France Trade, Exports and Imports
By: EconomyWatch Content Date: 18 March 2010

France Trade

France's trade is one of the largest in the world. France exports and imports various raw materials, automobiles and electronic products. The country ranks sixth in the world in terms of export volumes and 5th when it comes to imports.

France Exports

In 2010, France’s exports totaled $456.8 billion including:



machinery and transportation equipment and aircraft
plastics, chemicals and pharmaceutical products
iron and steel
beverages
To export trading partners Germany (14.3%), Italy (8.7%), Spain (8.3%), UK (7.8%), Belgium (7.6%), US (5.8%), Netherlands (4.2%) Germany (14.9%), Spain (9.3%), Italy (8.9%), UK (8.1%), Belgium (7.3%), US (6.1%) and Netherlands (4.1%).

Link: http://www.economywatch.com/world_economy/france/export-import.html

We were discussing consumer products viz. cars. While France does have a large economy, most of their industries have been around forever. I don't see any new innovative companies coming out of France. Where is France's Google or Amazon?

[newtothegame]

We just disagree. I say it's better to protect a country's auto industry and it's workers through tariffs than it is to lose the jobs but the consumer gets a nicer car.

Having said that, I do understand that Puegeot needs to make a more competitive car.
So, in essence, you are for isolationism. Meaning that the only place a company can be competitive is within its borders. And, along with that, the consumer in france will suffer having to pay higher prices for its own countries cars, as well as any cars brought in internationally.
Nice NJ....protect the worker (which does nothing because the cost will get passed right back to them in the form of a consumer)....:lol:
How does one "get ahead" and gain the nicer things in life in this scenario.....?
You know there used to be an old commericial I am reminded of when I read your non sense related to business...."you can pay me now, or pay me later", with the interpretation being you will eventually pay!
:lol:

[Tom]

How about we reward companies like Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, who build plants here in the USA and create jobs for Americans and screw companies like GM who build plants in Mexico and Canada ans screw us here at home?

Oh, yeah, mostie, those transplant companies that make better cars and have better jobs - union free!!!!:lol:

[NJ Stinks]

So, in essence, you are for isolationism. Meaning that the only place a company can be competitive is within its borders. And, along with that, the consumer in france will suffer having to pay higher prices for its own countries cars, as well as any cars brought in internationally.
Nice NJ....protect the worker (which does nothing because the cost will get passed right back to them in the form of a consumer)....:lol:
How does one "get ahead" and gain the nicer things in life in this scenario.....?
You know there used to be an old commericial I am reminded of when I read your non sense related to business...."you can pay me now, or pay me later", with the interpretation being you will eventually pay!
:lol:

Newt, I'm for protecting U.S. industries. If that means high tariffs on imported cars, I'm for it. My concern is for jobs here in the USA. I hope the Koreans and Japanese have a strong auto industry too. But when push comes to shove, I'm pushing for the U.S. auto industry.

Consumers here can deal with paying a little more for a car if they have a job. No job means no car. Period.

[newtothegame]

Newt, I'm for protecting U.S. industries. If that means high tariffs on imported cars, I'm for it. My concern is for jobs here in the USA. I hope the Koreans and Japanese have a strong auto industry too. But when push comes to shove, I'm pushing for the U.S. auto industry.

Consumers here can deal with paying a little more for a car if they have a job. No job means no car. Period.
but you do see the irony in what you are saying right?
YOU ARE OK WITH THE CONSUMER PAYING MORE. Yet, on the other hand you want everyone to have the nicer things through higher pay??????????
What difference does a slightly higher wage mean if the consumer is FORCED to pay it back through purchases???
lmao....you're one funny guy!! lol :lol:

[newtothegame]

By the way. U.S. Industries can more then protect themselves if things like goverment regulations and taxation to control were not in place.
you see, to be competitive in a global economy, you must be COMPETITIVE.
You can NOT be competitive, when your own government is removing your competitiveness through stupidity.
This is not to say that SOME regulations wern't necessary. But, not even you can look anyone with a straight face and say the government has not gone WAY overboard with its use of the EPA, taxes, and regulations.

[NJ Stinks]

but you do see the irony in what you are saying right?
YOU ARE OK WITH THE CONSUMER PAYING MORE. Yet, on the other hand you want everyone to have the nicer things through higher pay??????????
What difference does a slightly higher wage mean if the consumer is FORCED to pay it back through purchases???
lmao....you're one funny guy!! lol :lol:

You are ignoring what I said. If an American does not have a job, he is not going to be able to buy a decent car no matter what it costs.

Any thoughts on that?

[newtothegame]

You are ignoring what I said. If an American does not have a job, he is not going to be able to buy a decent car no matter what it costs.

Any thoughts on that?
Its been answered several times. You just refuse to acknowledge it. How many times have you heard about government regulation and unions in this thread???
Do you ever stop for a moment and see those companies are the ones that are going belly up? Coincidence??? Why are companies moving as fast as they can out of California??? Coincidence???
Come on NJ, even you see this for what it is...you just think in your utopia it's some conspiracy!

[badcompany]

You are ignoring what I said. If an American does not have a job, he is not going to be able to buy a decent car no matter what it costs.

Any thoughts on that?

You act as though losing a job is a death sentence. It's not.

I've lost jobs, and, yes, it sucked, but I didn't lay down and die. I got off my ass and got another. Since when did being an auto worker become the equivalent of a Pope or a Supreme Court Judge?

[NJ Stinks]

You act as though losing a job is a death sentence. It's not.

I've lost jobs, and, yes, it sucked, but I didn't lay down and die. I got off my ass and got another. Since when did being an auto worker become the equivalent of a Pope or a Supreme Court Judge?


People can't find jobs today as it is. And now you are ready to toss U.S. auto manufacturing jobs under a bus.

Link: http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm

Anyway, I don't expect people will lay down and die. But finding another good job will be just about impossible for most of these people IMO.

[newtothegame]

People can't find jobs today as it is. And now you are ready to toss U.S. auto manufacturing jobs under a bus.

Link: http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm

Anyway, I don't expect people will lay down and die. But finding another good job will be just about impossible for most of these people IMO.
Speaking of avoiding topics lol.....I see you failed to adress my concerns....

[badcompany]

People can't find jobs today as it is. And now you are ready to toss U.S. auto manufacturing jobs under a bus.

Link: http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm

Anyway, I don't expect people will lay down and die. But finding another good job will be just about impossible for most of these people IMO.

This is becoming a broken record. The Left wants to talk about unemployment without ever bringing price into the discussion. You can have as much unemployment as you want if you raise the of price labor high enough. There's this thing called the demand curve which shows the relationship of price to demand. Price goes up demand goes down.

I'm a car guy. Half the tv shows I watch are about cars. I'd love to see new, innovative American car companies. However, I don't see it happening if we continue to bail out the dinosaurs.

[NJ Stinks]

Its been answered several times. You just refuse to acknowledge it. How many times have you heard about government regulation and unions in this thread???
Do you ever stop for a moment and see those companies are the ones that are going belly up? Coincidence??? Why are companies moving as fast as they can out of California??? Coincidence???
Come on NJ, even you see this for what it is...you just think in your utopia it's some conspiracy!

OK. I'll respond to this.

What does California have to do with auto manufacturing jobs primarily located in Michigan?

Don't government regulations affect all cars sold in the USA? Why do you think government auto regulations hurt U.S. manufacturers but not foreign manufacturers with factories here?

Hstorically, sooner or later unions become a necessity.

[newtothegame]

OK. I'll respond to this.

What does California have to do with auto manufacturing jobs primarily located in Michigan?

Don't government regulations affect all cars sold in the USA? Why do you think government auto regulations hurt U.S. manufacturers but not foreign manufacturers with factories here?

Hstorically, sooner or later unions become a necessity.
Ok. California was used in the discussion to show what government regulation through taxation does to companies......but of course, you do not want to discuss that.
So, since you wish to keep it to CAR manufacturing, would you like to talk about Detroit? The MECCA of the auto industry at one point....now reduced to damn near a ghost town. Why do you think that is? Wouldn't possibly have anything to do with unions? Wouldnt possibly have anything to do with NON competitiveness due to wages would it?
Why is it Nissan and other manufacturing companies can come here and produce same, if not better, quality cars and remain profitable? All the while GM and Chrysler need bailouts? I know, terrible management!! Has nothing to do with workers on the sides of plants smoking weed, drinking, and can NOT be fired. And, did I mention having nearly twice the total benefits of the competition???
Yeah, none of the regulations and unions had nothing to do with that...I get it NJ.....:bang:

[NJ Stinks]

This is becoming a broken record. The Left wants to talk about unemployment without ever bringing price into the discussion. You can have as much unemployment as you want if you raise the of price labor high enough. There's this thing called the demand curve which shows the relationship of price to demand. Price goes up demand goes down.

I'm a car guy. Half the tv shows I watch are about cars. I'd love to see new, innovative American car companies. However, I don't see it happening if we continue to bail out the dinosaurs.

I agree that this is going nowhere. You guys believe price is the #1 priority and I believe having a decent job in this country is more important than American consumers saving money.

So you can continue to root for the Wal-marts of the world and I'll continue to root for anybody but the Wal-marts.

[newtothegame]

And, before you tell me that the other companies shouldnt be allowed in the US, you are right back to square one with that idea. Higher car prices (which would happen without competition) means less money in the consumers pocket...You have already stated you are FOR that!!

[newtothegame]

I agree that this is going nowhere. You guys believe price is the #1 priority and I believe having a decent job in this country is more important than American consumers saving money.

So you can continue to root for the Wal-marts of the world and I'll continue to root for anybody but the Wal-marts.
lol I cant bring California in the discussion and you want to talk about car manufacturing and now you bring in WAL MART????? :lol:

[NJ Stinks]

Why is it Nissan and other manufacturing companies can come here and produce same, if not better, quality cars and remain profitable? All the while GM and Chrysler need bailouts? I know, terrible management!! Has nothing to do with workers on the sides of plants smoking weed, drinking, and can NOT be fired. And, did I mention having nearly twice the total benefits of the competition???
Yeah, none of the regulations and unions had nothing to do with that...I get it NJ.....:bang:

The unions made concessions. And terrible management was certainly a factor.

I'm not ready to blow up an industry because some guys were drinking or smoking pot. And you are talking to a guy who is happy to pay a little more so somebody else gets good benefits where they work.

[NJ Stinks]

lol I cant bring California in the discussion and you want to talk about car manufacturing and now you bring in WAL MART????? :lol:

It was a little cheeky. :) But I know BC longs for a Wal-mart in NYC. So I tossed it out there. :p

[badcompany]

It was a little cheeky. :) But I know BC longs for a Wal-mart in NYC. So I tossed it out there. :p

I actually thought about you when I was in the Walmart in Saratoga.

If you head up to Toga, you should visit the Walmart just for "Research," and ask yourself if the workers are lucky to have those jobs and if the customers benefit from the low prices.

[boxcar]

It seems that most of what France is doing in regard to taxes is returning to rates as they were before they were lowered by Sarkozy. Just as we should have returned long ago to the pre-Bush rates..

The French government is also going to cut spending. Raise taxes-cut spending.
Not just cut spending, Cutting spending impacts the poor. Raising taxes impacts the rich. Share the pain. They are doing what we should be doing. Not just end the Bush era tax cuts. Raise taxes above that. Don't just cut social programs. Cut Defense spending. Eliminate corporate welfare. Tax businesses and individuals on money made here and overseas.

But if the government is really cutting spending, why would the draconian tax increase be necessary? To give the government a surplus? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

But if the government is really cutting spending, why would the draconian tax increase be necessary? To give the government a surplus? :rolleyes:

Boxcar
Because the government wants to ensure they remain on top of the 1% list?

Think about it.

[JustRalph]

It's working out so well

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9688943/Debt-crisis-France-downgrade-blow-as-eurozone-remains-split-on-Greece-aid-live.html

AAA credit rating stripped


They now tax capital gains at 40 percent on top of the 75 percent number they came up with for millionaires

Goodbye investment in France.

[Valuist]

People can't find jobs today as it is. And now you are ready to toss U.S. auto manufacturing jobs under a bus.

Link: http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm

Anyway, I don't expect people will lay down and die. But finding another good job will be just about impossible for most of these people IMO.

Bad Company isn't throwing the US auto industry (excluding Ford, of course) under the bus. They did that to themselves.

[Valuist]

France is now considered by many to be the biggest problem child in the Euro Zone:

http://world.time.com/2012/11/14/france-biggest-problem-in-euro-crisis-say-german-officials/

[Tom]

So you can continue to root for the Wal-marts of the world and I'll continue to root for anybody but the Wal-marts.

First you want to talk about cars, then they prove your wrong,now you want to talk about Wal Mart. :lol::lol::lol:

[DJofSD]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/25/world/europe/a-proud-nation-ponders-how-to-halt-its-slow-decline.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

PARIS — For decades, Europeans have agonized over the power and role of Germany — the so-called German question — given its importance to European stability and prosperity.

Today, however, Europe is talking about “the French question”: can the Socialist government of President François Hollande pull France out of its slow decline and prevent it from slipping permanently into Europe’s second tier?

Au revoir.