Worst DQ Call At Yonkers

[Sea Biscuit]

The #5 Second Hand News was DQed for 'causing confusion' in the race.

Causing confusion generally means the front end horse is going so slow that the horses right behind him on the rail are literally running into/over him. In this particular case the horses behind the #5 horse could hardly keep up with him and he won the race fair and square wire to wire.

Take a look at this video

http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=YonkersRaceway&t=1341030907&h=39e329d9e68636755061337ffaa8015d&url=201206292115YON7

[harness2008]

Wow, that is a tough one. He did slow a tad after the first 1/8 mile which caused a slight backup but that is really nitpicking. If you notice the four horses directly behind him all ran up on each other with the fifth horse breaking at that point. I wouldn't think that would be enough for a DQ but they saw it another way. Thats what you call a really bad beat.

[toetoe]

The second quarter wasn't even that slow for trotters. I saw a similar quarter last night in a pace, I think. Anyway, presumably they saw the infraction in that first furlong. I'm just wondering whether the clocking helped their decision. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[Sea Biscuit]

The second quarter wasn't even that slow for trotters. I saw a similar quarter last night in a pace, I think. Anyway, presumably they saw the infraction in that first furlong. I'm just wondering whether the clocking helped their decision. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

The first quarter was a fairly fast 28.2 for trotters.

[harness2008]

I'm not siding with the judges decision at all and I think it stinks. True, the first quarter was not at all on the slow side, however for that short portion of the race after the first 1/8 mile its obvious that the brakes were tapped which caused the other horses to somewhat run up on the horse ahead of them resulting in a break for one of them. You can definately see the pinball effect, although slight of the horses behind Second Hand News.

I think its because of the breaking horse that the red flag went up, I'm thinking if that horse didn't break then perhaps they would have let it go. I'm just glad I didn't bet this race and had Second Hand News with a large wager because there would have been some broken items in my house.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The first quarter was a fairly fast 28.2 for trotters.

This has to be one of the worst harness-racing DQs of all time. The judges take issue with a second quarter of 30 2/5 for trotters on a half-mile track? What if the second quarter was 30? What if he went the first quarter in 29 2/5 and the same half? Idiotic.

Anyway, I've always thought this was the dumbest of all rules. Actually I've never seen a DQ because of it, just drivers getting fined. The goal is to win the race. If the rest of the drivers are too dumb to pull and force a slow pace, then that's too bad. Fine everyone in the race except for the guy on the lead who is trying to win! And certainly don't penalize winning bettors!

[CHeCK EyE]

The first time I heard this rule I felt the same way. Dumb on the part of the other drivers for not pulling, but at the same time if you pull and get hung you screw yourself out of a check. Not saying I agree with sitting in, just playing devil's advocate. But the same thing happened in the Ben Franklin Final with Meirs Hanover! Cheddar got the lead and immediately tried to slow causing We Will See to slow, in turn causing Meirs to slow but he couldn't and ran up Pierce back and eventually went off stride. No DQ, no inquiry there. In the Yonkers race it wasn't a matter of slowing down the pace that caused the DQ, it had to be the fact that slowing down as quickly as he did caused Manzi's horse behind him to go off stride because he ran up the back of the guy in front. I'm no driver, but if you put yourself in a car in the same situation, wouldn't you have trouble slamming the breaks and not hitting the guy in front? IDK

[thespaah]

The #5 Second Hand News was DQed for 'causing confusion' in the race.

Causing confusion generally means the front end horse is going so slow that the horses right behind him on the rail are literally running into/over him. In this particular case the horses behind the #5 horse could hardly keep up with him and he won the race fair and square wire to wire.

Take a look at this video

http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=YonkersRaceway&t=1341030907&h=39e329d9e68636755061337ffaa8015d&url=201206292115YON7
I think the judges were confused.
This looked like a normal race to me. The fractional times were honest. The pace was honest throughout.
Section 1...
Section 1. Although a leading horse is entitled to any part of the track except after
selecting his position in the home stretch, neither the driver of the first horse or any
other driver in the race shall do any of the following things, which shall be considered
violation of driving rules:
(g) Sit down in front of a horse or take up abruptly in front of other horses so as to
cause confusion or interference among trailing horses.
(i) Commit any act which shall impede the progress of another horse or cause
him to break.
These are the only two possibilities I could find..
Link:
http://www.ustrotting.com/pdf/USTARuleBook.pdf

[CHeCK EyE]

That makes a little more sense than just claiming he 'caused confusion'. It is a tough DQ, but it was a putrid explanation. If they were to explain the abrupt back down causing a break of an other horse, OK yeah it sucks, but it would make a ton more sense. But again, it happened in the Ben Franklin with Meirs Hanover and nothing....Unless Meirs just ran up Pierce back on his own

[MickJ26]

So a thoroughbred jockey is allowed to slow it down on the front end, but, a harness driver isn't? Is it because the bikes are cumbersome and makes passing difficult? Sorry, just trying to be clear here.

[Saratoga_Mike]

So a thoroughbred jockey is allowed to slow it down on the front end, but, a harness driver isn't? Is it because the bikes are cumbersome and makes passing difficult? Sorry, just trying to be clear here.

Yes, that's the theory. The rule is idiotic.

[MickJ26]

If I owned the horse that got taken down, I don't think I'd ever run my horse back at Yonkers again. I wonder if the stewards make that same call if it were Brennan or Sears driving.

[badcompany]

In thirty years of watching Yonkers, I've never seen a DQ even close to being that bad, and I can't recall ever seeing a race when the speed and pocket horse finished 1-2, and they BOTH got taken down. Why did the 1 get taken down? For running too fast?:lol:

Throw in Gregory sitting in forth with the favorite, and it's very difficult to label the race as anything but "Shady."

[baconswitchfarm]

Throw in Gregory sitting in forth with the favorite, and it's very difficult to label the race as anything but "Shady."[/QUOTE]
That sums up yonkers for thirty years.

[badcompany]

This has to be one of the worst harness-racing DQs of all time. The judges take issue with a second quarter of 30 2/5 for trotters on a half-mile track? What if the second quarter was 30? What if he went the first quarter in 29 2/5 and the same half? Idiotic.

Anyway, I've always thought this was the dumbest of all rules. Actually I've never seen a DQ because of it, just drivers getting fined. The goal is to win the race. If the rest of the drivers are too dumb to pull and force a slow pace, then that's too bad. Fine everyone in the race except for the guy on the lead who is trying to win! And certainly don't penalize winning bettors!

For judges to reverse a result, the infraction should be blatant; otherwise, what's the point of getting excited about a race when you know the results can easily be changed?

I doubt there was a single person who watched that race and thought to themselves, "They should take down the #5."

It's as though Yonkers is trying to alienate the few remaining fans the sport has left.

[Mr G]

The #5 Second Hand News was DQed for 'causing confusion' in the race.

Causing confusion generally means the front end horse is going so slow that the horses right behind him on the rail are literally running into/over him. In this particular case the horses behind the #5 horse could hardly keep up with him and he won the race fair and square wire to wire.

Take a look at this video

http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=YonkersRaceway&t=1341030907&h=39e329d9e68636755061337ffaa8015d&url=201206292115YON7

My knowledge of Harness racing is extremely limited but with that said I did watch th video and it seems to me the number 1 horse in 2nd position was a bit eager by running so fast up behind the leader and it appears to me that the 1 horse really was the cause of the horses behind him getting all screwed up.....at least that is how it appeared to my untrained eyes.

I watched the entire video and was waiting to hear the result after the announcer said there was an inquiry regarding the second place finisher, the #1 horse, for possible interfering with the 8 horse who finished 3rd...the track annoncer never made any mention of the winner, the 5, so I assumed he didn't feel the winner did anything wrong..

Then after what seemed to be a long time the track announcer then informed that they was something also being looked at regarding the winner...

I kept waiting during the extended inquiry to hear the final result of the inquiry but the stream stopped..

So I need to ask what was the official order of the top 3? Where was the 5 and 1 put who finished 1st and 2nd?

[Saratoga_Mike]

For judges to reverse a result, the infraction should be blatant; otherwise, what's the point of getting excited about a race when you know the results can easily be changed?

I doubt there was a single person who watched that race and thought to themselves, "They should take down the #5."

It's as though Yonkers is trying to alienate the few remaining fans the sport has left.

Absolutely. This decision was so arbitrary it borders on criminal. I'd love someone with a harness past performance database to analyze the results for the past yr (trotting races at YR), so we can find out if there have been similar second quarters. My bet is there have been. If so, why no DQ? The judges should all be fired, and I don't say that lightly. I've disagreed with judge in the past, but I never thought they should be fired for one poor call.

[Sea Biscuit]

My knowledge of Harness racing is extremely limited but with that said I did watch th video and it seems to me the number 1 horse in 2nd position was a bit eager by running so fast up behind the leader and it appears to me that the 1 horse really was the cause of the horses behind him getting all screwed up.....at least that is how it appeared to my untrained eyes.

I watched the entire video and was waiting to hear the result after the announcer said there was an inquiry regarding the second place finisher, the #1 horse, for possible interfering with the 8 horse who finished 3rd...the track annoncer never made any mention of the winner, the 5, so I assumed he didn't feel the winner did anything wrong..

Then after what seemed to be a long time the track announcer then informed that they was something also being looked at regarding the winner...

I kept waiting during the extended inquiry to hear the final result of the inquiry but the stream stopped..

So I need to ask what was the official order of the top 3? Where was the 5 and 1 put who finished 1st and 2nd?

The race for Yonkers June 29 7th race. Here is the order of finish

8 Speed Bomb (http://Speed%20Bomb) Jason Bartlett (http://Jason%20Bartlett)13.00 5.00 3.40 1 Armbro Casino (http://Armbro%20Casino) Shaun Vallee (http://Shaun%20Vallee) 7.90 4.70 7 Bastille (http://Bastille) George Brennan (http://George%20Brennan) 6.40

The #5 Second Hand News was DQed to last place. The #8 Speed Bomb finished 3rd but was declared the winner as the #1 interfered with him during the last stages of the race.

[Mr G]

Thanks for that and wow for the 5....I can see why so many are upset.....if I heard the track announcer correctly watching by the stream you posted that race was also the 1st leg of the Pk 4....terrible for those who keyed a pk 4 ticket using the 5 :(

[badcompany]

So, buying into the absurd explanation, why did BOTH horses get taken down? Shouldn't it just be the #5?

As an aside, my criticism of Gregory not pulling with the favorite would be met with a response to the effect of "They're horses, not machines. The drivers can't just do whatever they want."

If that's really the case, why blame Holland, the driver on the #5, for the horse slowing down more than he (Holland) wanted?

[Mr G]

just came across this


Every week I endeavor to write about a single topic and it seems I rarely succeed. The topics for the week are a Yonkers Raceway disqualification, Lou Pena, guaranteed wagers, and the Meadowlands Pace.

On June 29, race seven at Yonkers Raceway featured a rare reason for disqualification when the horse that won wire to wire rather easily was placed last. The infraction committed by Second Hand News was backing down the pace and causing confusion to trailing horses. Basically the horse was dq’d for trying to slow down the pace going to the quarter. It was decided that the move by driver Brent Holland created a chain reaction which caused horses to be in close quarters and forced one horse to break stride.

Let’s get one thing straight, in most races the horse which gets the lead will look to back down the pace. After watching the replay multiple times, I have come to two conclusions:

1) The leader cannot be held responsible in this case because the horses behind her had ample time to adjust to any change in the pace. It reminds me of when you are driving a car. If you hit someone from behind, you are at fault; not the guy in front.

2) There are instances where horses on the lead cause legitimate confusion, but the incident has to be clear and obvious for a disqualification. This was not a clear cut call and the early fraction was hardly excessively slow for the class (:28 2/5).

Plus, it just looks bad to disqualify a horse that wins easily by 3 ½ lengths when the only possible infraction was trying to win.

Check the replay for yourself on the Yonkers Raceway website - http://www.empirecitycasino.com/livevideo/ (http://www.empirecitycasino.com/livevideo/) - Just click on the calendar date (June 29, race 7).

http://www.drf.com/blogs/yonkers-guaranteed-wagers-lou-pena-meadowlands-pace

[badcompany]

2) There are instances where horses on the lead cause legitimate confusion, but the incident has to be clear and obvious for a disqualification. This was not a clear cut call and the early fraction was hardly excessively slow for the class (:28 2/5).

http://www.drf.com/blogs/yonkers-guaranteed-wagers-lou-pena-meadowlands-pace

If the 1st quarter was so slow, why did the #8 take a tuck third, and why was there such a big hole for Bartlett to drop into? Perhaps Bartlett and Gregory should have been dq'd for not trying.

[Mr G]

I've seen quite a number of strange things in racing over the 30-40 years I've been playing but watching that replay and seeing that 5 get banished to last is one of the weirdest ever. Just doesn't make sense to me....a clear winner being dumped.

[botster]

Another question...You touched on it a bit buscuit, but why did it take so long for them to post the inquiry on the #5.Someone probably who was very disgruntled must have said something to them.These guys have a job to do and they need to pick this up themselves.Also if a driver did make a stink why was there never an objection posted by him.When was the last time we ever saw an objection at Yonkers Raceway??...lol

Yeah, I know it was a slow half because Holland put on he brakes past the quarter, but you know, that's racing and a smart drive by a smart driver winning for his owners and those that backed him at the windows!

I have seen this same scenerio at Yonkers and other track countless times even with horses breaking behind.This was a case of someone losing a lot of money of whom Yonkers Raceway couldn't afford to piss off.

Good Fortune:)

[botster]

I wonder if Vallee said something after realizing he may be taken down himself...lol.Yeah,I know Holland caused them into a slight domino effect, but that was not excessive and is part of racing!!

I will ask around and see if I can get any information on what happened concerning this travesty!!

Good Fortune :)

[Sea Biscuit]

I wonder if Vallee said something after realizing he may be taken down himself...lol.Yeah,I know Holland caused them into a slight domino effect, but that was not excessive and is part of racing!!

I will ask around and see if I can get any information on what happened concerning this travesty!!

Good Fortune :)

Hey Bots Welcome Back. Long time no see or hear from you.

I want you to know you were missed.

Hope everything is well with the family.

[Sea Biscuit]

It reminds me of when you are driving a car. If you hit someone from behind, you are at fault; not the guy in front.



Wrong analogy of car I think.

In cars you have the brake lights to warn the cars behind you. The safest distance between two cars is the 3 second rule which basically means about 111 feet if you are traveling at 25 mph and more if you are going faster. In-spite of all these safeguards how would you feel about the driver of the car in front of you on an open highway with no obstacles in front suddenly jams on his brakes.I am sure you wouldn't like it a bit.

In harness racing we don't have these luxuries.

After taking a second and a third look at the video replay, I did find that the judges had a reason to DQ the horse. After the 1/8th pole #5 did slow down sufficiently to jam up the three horses behind him and causing the 4th horse to break which was probably the main cause of the DQ,

Personally I feel the horse should not have been DQed but the judges thought otherwise.

[titans1127]

The NYSRWB even gave Holland a 3 day suspension as a result of the race in question :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Sea Biscuit]

The NYSRWB even gave Holland a 3 day suspension as a result of the race in question :bang: :bang: :bang:

Can you please provide a link for the above suspension.

[melman]

Biscuit---Here you go.

http://www.racing.ny.gov/rulesrch/searchrulings.detail.php?ID=32474

[Sea Biscuit]

Biscuit---Here you go.

http://www.racing.ny.gov/rulesrch/searchrulings.detail.php?ID=32474

Thanks Mel

[botster]

"Horses and divorces" Buscuit...hahahaha!!! Thanks for the welcome back, that was nice of you.I'm happy to see the old gang again here:)

[thespaah]

Wrong analogy of car I think.

In cars you have the brake lights to warn the cars behind you. The safest distance between two cars is the 3 second rule which basically means about 111 feet if you are traveling at 25 mph and more if you are going faster. In-spite of all these safeguards how would you feel about the driver of the car in front of you on an open highway with no obstacles in front suddenly jams on his brakes.I am sure you wouldn't like it a bit.

In harness racing we don't have these luxuries.

After taking a second and a third look at the video replay, I did find that the judges had a reason to DQ the horse. After the 1/8th pole #5 did slow down sufficiently to jam up the three horses behind him and causing the 4th horse to break which was probably the main cause of the DQ,

Personally I feel the horse should not have been DQed but the judges thought otherwise.
I disagree. First, the fractions were honest. For a horse to "slam on the brakes" and say go a 15 second first eight mile of the second quarter. To pace a legitimate quarter of 28 to 29 secs, that horse would have to accelerate noticeably. Such is not the case.
Next, if the pace was slow, why did none of the other drivers pull their horses?
In my opinion, if a driver allows a less than honest pace in front of him and does nothing but sit or pull back, he is just as guilty as the leader for causing said confusion.

[botster]

I wonder if Vallee said something after realizing he may be taken down himself...lol.Yeah,I know Holland caused them into a slight domino effect, but that was not excessive and is part of racing!!

I will ask around and see if I can get any information on what happened concerning this travesty!!

Good Fortune :)

I talked to a few trainer/drivers who race at Yonkers.From what they are telling me Holland recieved three days for this infraction."The word" is,and cannot be confirmed as the absolute truth is what follows.Catello Manzi whom is pretty close friends with Shaun Vallee went to the Nick Ferriero jr(former trainer/driver), whom has newly become the presiding judge and brought it to his attention.This makes sense to me.Trainers are also telling me that their will be a state investigation on the matter.

Good Fortune:)