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alhattab
06-25-2012, 08:15 PM
http://www.paulickreport.com:8080/index.php/news/ray-s-paddock/monmouth-park-in-driver-s-seat-to-host-2013-breeders-cup/

This is a little hard to believe. As a local I had a great time at the 2007 BC (was there for the full meet and every morning), and I thought Mth did a good job given the weather, but if true the fact that Mth is the favorite to host another BC is an indication that the BC is in decline. It is not an ideal venue in any respect. Distance from major hotels/urban area, absence of chutes to accomodate BC Dirt Mile or F&M sprint, bullring grass course, potential for nasty weather in a venue built for summer. It is distinctly AAA compared to the major league venues. The fact that nobody else is stepping up spells trouble. Not to mention that current management is going through growing pains (I haven't been there much this year but from what I hear the customer service/experience is not up to snuff, even for a racetrack).

cj
06-25-2012, 08:17 PM
As a bettor, it is a great day(s) of racing. As a fan, I hate the Breeder's Cup. I'll be happy as a lark if it disappears.

ronsmac
06-25-2012, 08:24 PM
As a bettor, it is a great day(s) of racing. As a fan, I hate the Breeder's Cup. I'll be happy as a lark if it disappears.
Huh????????????

cj
06-25-2012, 08:32 PM
Huh????????????

It isn't that hard to understand. It has diminished tons of other formerly great races. Now, everybody points to the Triple Crown and the BC, everything else is a prep. I'd rather have races throughout the year have more importance and sacrifice one good day than what we have now.

alhattab
06-25-2012, 08:38 PM
It isn't that hard to understand. It has diminished tons of other formerly great races. Now, everybody points to the Triple Crown and the BC, everything else is a prep. I'd rather have races throughout the year have more importance and sacrifice one good day than what we have now.

I agree. I think there is more than 50/50 chance that BC will see its demise within a few years, replaced by a series of big days over the fall that will decide seasonal championships over several big days in Sept-Nov at several venues.

Shemp Howard
06-25-2012, 08:41 PM
I think they ought to run the BC at Penn National and show the world how far US racing has sunk.

Cardus
06-25-2012, 08:43 PM
On Breeders' Cup day(s), there are races that are not Breeders' Cup races which precede the Breeders' Cup stakes.

The horses in those races will be able to run on all legal race-day medication in the jurisdiction hosting the event, right?

If that is correct, then it is incredibly ironic, isn't it?

PhantomOnTour
06-25-2012, 08:48 PM
If the BrCup is no more than we will rarely see east meet west during the fall.
No one wants to cross the Rockies :)

Tom
06-25-2012, 08:56 PM
No BC would mean a return, hopefully to the good old Fall Championship.
Belmont could host a day of racing that would accommodate all the various divisions on top notch tracks, dirt and grass.

Unless the New NYRA Board of the Clueless put in polytrack.

gm10
06-26-2012, 03:45 AM
This would be great news. I thought that Monmouth was massively unlucky in 2007. They tried really really hard to make it a good event, but the weather was cruel.

Agreed with the downward trend of the BC, though. There is a lot of competition from overseas festivals these days, it won't be easy to survive in its current form.

Valuist
06-26-2012, 08:22 AM
It isn't that hard to understand. It has diminished tons of other formerly great races. Now, everybody points to the Triple Crown and the BC, everything else is a prep. I'd rather have races throughout the year have more importance and sacrifice one good day than what we have now.

I don't blame the BC for that. I blame the owners and trainers who are scared to run more than 5 times a year.

MaTH716
06-26-2012, 10:02 AM
You would think that Monmouth is probably going to get it. I'm guessing NYRA is being black balled for some reason (maybe all the state intervention and recent turnover in management). But how they aren't in the rotation some how is beyond me. Now Churchill is probably in the penalty box for the lack of respect that they are giving the BC Juvy in their wonderful new points system. Who else does that leave on the East?

I thought Monmouth did a good job in 2007, despite the rain. But truthfully I think it's a poor venue logistically for the event. This was my opinion the first time around and it hasn't changed. There is basically one road in and out of the place and it gets congested on normal race days. Traffic in 2007 was ridiculous and the crowds were much smaller due to the weather. There is also a real lack of lodging in the immediate vicinity. I'm honestly not sure how the venue will handle the real attendence (if weather isn't an issue). It did seem well equipped to handle it in 2007, but we won't know until race day. Finally and it's not an issue to me, but there's the BC Dirt mile, run at a mile and seventy yards and the track not being able to run the sprint at seven furlongs. I'm sure some people will take issue with that. But then again some people take issue with everything.

I just feel like if the BC is coming to the area, Belmont just makes so much more sense than Monmouth. And for the record, I live 20 minutes away from Monmouth.

1st time lasix
06-26-2012, 10:04 AM
As both a player and fan I look forward to the Breeder's Cup weekend every year. In fact...I have traveled and spent the money to attend three of them so far in various cities far from my home. Always in attendence at a simulcast outlet for both days if i am not there in person. I can't think of ANY single day anywhere I would rather be in attendence at the track. Except for maybe the first race or so before noon.....EVERY race at The Cup is a "big" race. Crowning champions and rewarding the connections in every division is one of the best things racing has ever done. My goodness....would much rather have a box at Breeder's Cup weekend than nearly ANY other sporting event and I have been to the Master's, Final Four, Daytona, NCAA bowl Games, 7th game Stanley Cup, Super Bowl and World Series. [never been to Olympic games however] To say they should eliminate it..... is pure negative rubbish. I am all for truly moving it around .....but like the Superbowl...it probalbly needs to be in Southern half of US if held in November in my opinion.

cj
06-26-2012, 10:11 AM
I don't blame the BC for that. I blame the owners and trainers who are scared to run more than 5 times a year.

It is a combination, and you can add in Eclipse voters too. Honestly, I don't care who is to blame. I just hope it changes. Look at how great most of the 3yo races are filled. The Haskell is looking fabulous. There is no BC race for straight 3yos, so the horsemen know they have to win the best races in the division.

Tom
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
This would be great news. I thought that Monmouth was massively unlucky in 2007. They tried really really hard to make it a good event, but the weather was cruel.

Agreed with the downward trend of the BC, though. There is a lot of competition from overseas festivals these days, it won't be easy to survive in its current form.

I don't anything overseas as competition - how many of our good horses are going there, other than Dubai, and those sure aren't our best anymore.

burnsy
06-26-2012, 10:58 AM
belmont has been on the outs with the BC people for years. there was one year they had a handshake deal on NY and the BC went elsewhere...i forget which year it was but since then belmont has gotten the old "skip over". other than the weather i thought monmouth was a great venue. we did have to stay about a 1/2 hour away but that was no biggie..its only 2 days. i try to go when ever i can. i'm glad to see that they are considering different tracks because that was the whole idea from the start. i'd like to see belmont used again for this event...its the biggest track with the best set up for this. but then again i agree with others...i won't be heart broken if it goes under. its a great couple days of racing but it takes the luster out of the racing season and waters down other big days. the sport needs a longer championship season not a shorter one. its like people that go to church on easter and christmas...we have fans that only bet on derby day and the breeders cup days. the quote "normal" media only hypes these big days and the other two triple crown days (preakness and belmont). if racing could get other big races covered it would help more than a breeders cup day or two. i see that saratoga is getting coverage for more days this year...now if there were no breeders cup maybe the fall championship deciding races would get some juice and people would have to run horses for a FULL season.

Valuist
06-26-2012, 11:18 AM
I think Monmouth deserves another shot. You can't hold the weather in 2007 against them. If Mth has bad weather, good chance Bel or Aqu would too. What are the other options besides SoCal and CD? At Gulfstream the Europeans bitch and complain about the heat. Keeneland has never had it; surprised they haven't been given a chance.

gm10
06-26-2012, 11:24 AM
I don't anything overseas as competition - how many of our good horses are going there, other than Dubai, and those sure aren't our best anymore.

The reverse question is more important (wrt BC maintaining its status): how many top foreign horses are going to the BC?

Tom
06-26-2012, 01:15 PM
Frankly, we don't need them. Grass racing will never be the centerpiece of racing here, and what we have here, although, admittedly inferior to Euros in most cases, are enough to fill out a card, which all the turf races really do. I will miss the opportunity to get 6-1 on a top class turfer, but that is only one or two races. (Which might be even more intriquing with that sectional times website you gave me......thanks again!)

I would rather, as CJ pointed out, see a championship season with full fields over a few months than one artificial day of stakes races.

Valuist
06-26-2012, 02:26 PM
The reverse question is more important (wrt BC maintaining its status): how many top foreign horses are going to the BC?

Have to figure on Aidan O'Brien sending a group over. Maybe the others won't come but I would expect to see several O'Brien runners.

gm10
06-26-2012, 04:53 PM
Frankly, we don't need them. Grass racing will never be the centerpiece of racing here, and what we have here, although, admittedly inferior to Euros in most cases, are enough to fill out a card, which all the turf races really do. I will miss the opportunity to get 6-1 on a top class turfer, but that is only one or two races. (Which might be even more intriquing with that sectional times website you gave me......thanks again!)

I would rather, as CJ pointed out, see a championship season with full fields over a few months than one artificial day of stakes races.

All I'm saying is that the BC is under increasing competition from abroad. Globalization and stuff.

gm10
06-26-2012, 04:55 PM
Have to figure on Aidan O'Brien sending a group over. Maybe the others won't come but I would expect to see several O'Brien runners.
He will keep sending them until he wins the Classic!!!!!!!!

pele polo
06-27-2012, 01:45 AM
I think Monmouth deserves another shot. You can't hold the weather in 2007 against them. If Mth has bad weather, good chance Bel or Aqu would too. What are the other options besides SoCal and CD? At Gulfstream the Europeans bitch and complain about the heat. Keeneland has never had it; surprised they haven't been given a chance.

30,000 at Keeneland is a tightly packed crowd is one reason. Another is we'd all freak out if the Breeders Cup was run on Poly.

I think Arlington is a great venue for the BC, but they'll never get it with their main course surface either.

There's really only a few tracks capable, I think that's why we've sen just a few hold the event in the last few years. Example: Laurel Park was once in the running and supposedly that's why Stronach reconfigured the track but it's now dilapitated (clubhouse & exterior).

Kevroc
06-27-2012, 02:06 AM
There's really only a few tracks capable, I think that's why we've sen just a few hold the event in the last few years. Example: Laurel Park was once in the running and supposedly that's why Stronach reconfigured the track but it's now dilapitated (clubhouse & exterior).

If they cleaned up the place I think LAU would be a good choice, it's one of the big ovals. Weather could be sketchy.

I vote GP. (if I had a vote)

Fingal
06-27-2012, 12:08 PM
30,000 at Keeneland is a tightly packed crowd is one reason. Another is we'd all freak out if the Breeders Cup was run on Poly.


Same thing with Del Mar.

hoovesupsideyourhe
06-27-2012, 05:17 PM
fg or gulfstream..?

onefast99
06-28-2012, 11:28 AM
[QUOTE=Valuist]I think Monmouth deserves another shot. You can't hold the weather in 2007 against them. If Mth has bad weather, good chance Bel or Aqu would too. What are the other options besides SoCal and CD? At Gulfstream the Europeans bitch and complain about the heat. Keeneland has never had it; surprised they haven't been given a chance.[/QUOTE
I agree 100%.
MP should get another look, the modifications made to the track for the BC in 2007 still look good to this day. The traffic wasn't as bad as many made it out to be. There are several backroads that people need to be made aware of right off exit 109 instead of exit 105 where the majority of the traffic issues were. There has been a major overhaul to the rt 35 and rt 36 intersection that will be up and running within the next 60 days. No one can forecast the weather but MP did a good job dealing with it for the whole week leading up to the BC races.

thespaah
06-29-2012, 01:15 AM
http://www.paulickreport.com:8080/index.php/news/ray-s-paddock/monmouth-park-in-driver-s-seat-to-host-2013-breeders-cup/

This is a little hard to believe. As a local I had a great time at the 2007 BC (was there for the full meet and every morning), and I thought Mth did a good job given the weather, but if true the fact that Mth is the favorite to host another BC is an indication that the BC is in decline. It is not an ideal venue in any respect. Distance from major hotels/urban area, absence of chutes to accomodate BC Dirt Mile or F&M sprint, bullring grass course, potential for nasty weather in a venue built for summer. It is distinctly AAA compared to the major league venues. The fact that nobody else is stepping up spells trouble. Not to mention that current management is going through growing pains (I haven't been there much this year but from what I hear the customer service/experience is not up to snuff, even for a racetrack).
Just a minute...Speaking specifically on track circumference...CD and SA are BOTH one mile tracks with 7F turf courses.
You refer to Mth's turf course as a bull ring....It is also 7F.. Mth regularly uses the one mile distance on the main track with no issues. Where is it written the BC Dirt mile must be a one turn race?.
Onward.....At the end of the day, who cares about hotels. There are tons of lodging establishments within one hour of the track. There is no need to stay right on top of the place.
Weather....The 1988 BC run at CD was done so in miserable weather. It never got out of the 50's all day and it rained. Checking weather records, in late October The avg high for Louisville is 63, Avg low is 45. Otober averages 16 days of precipitation.
For the Mth area, the closest airport where weather records are taken in in Trenton. I used Atlantic City airport which is about 60 miles south due to it's proximity to the ocean matching that of Mth...In any event the avg hi temp for October 31st is 62. The avg low is 41. October is a relatively dry month with avg precip days at 14...
So the weather in the Northern NJ shore region and for the Louisville area is pretty much the same. Finally, for the BC events, the track management takes a back seat to BC Ltd. That entity essentially takes over track operations for THEIR event.

thespaah
06-29-2012, 01:22 AM
As a bettor, it is a great day(s) of racing. As a fan, I hate the Breeder's Cup. I'll be happy as a lark if it disappears.
I'm not a big fan either.
Once BC Ltd started charging the national debt of a small country to purchase seats and their website to buy on line is a PITA, I see a company that is out of touch with the customer.
Plus I cannot stand that the BC is pot committed to the last week of October. If the event was run one month earlier, it would bring lots of great tracks into availability that in late October the risk for cold weather is just too high.

thespaah
06-29-2012, 01:29 AM
I don't blame the BC for that. I blame the owners and trainers who are scared to run more than 5 times a year.
Spot on!!!!!

alhattab
06-29-2012, 01:42 AM
Just a minute...Speaking specifically on track circumference...CD and SA are BOTH one mile tracks with 7F turf courses.
You refer to Mth's turf course as a bull ring....It is also 7F.. Mth regularly uses the one mile distance on the main track with no issues. Where is it written the BC Dirt mile must be a one turn race?.
Onward.....At the end of the day, who cares about hotels. There are tons of lodging establishments within one hour of the track. There is no need to stay right on top of the place.
Weather....The 1988 BC run at CD was done so in miserable weather. It never got out of the 50's all day and it rained. Checking weather records, in late October The avg high for Louisville is 63, Avg low is 45. Otober averages 16 days of precipitation.
For the Mth area, the closest airport where weather records are taken in in Trenton. I used Atlantic City airport which is about 60 miles south due to it's proximity to the ocean matching that of Mth...In any event the avg hi temp for October 31st is 62. The avg low is 41. October is a relatively dry month with avg precip days at 14...
So the weather in the Northern NJ shore region and for the Louisville area is pretty much the same. Finally, for the BC events, the track management takes a back seat to BC Ltd. That entity essentially takes over track operations for THEIR event.
I don't know if using averages tells you that the weather is pretty much the same. NJ shore is prone to getting some nasty Nor'easters that time of year that are unique to the area (like the snow we got last Halloween). And you're right it isn't called the "BC One Turn Mile", but in my view the race is truly unique at that configuration, and SA, CD and Mth all have bull ring grass courses Anyway, point is that in my view Monmouth has no redeeming qualities to host the BC. I didn't even mention that it needs to bring in bunch of portable seats!

pele polo
06-29-2012, 04:09 AM
If they'd consider Monmouth, I'd rather have Deleware Park.

MaTH716
06-29-2012, 09:31 AM
I don't know if using averages tells you that the weather is pretty much the same. NJ shore is prone to getting some nasty Nor'easters that time of year that are unique to the area (like the snow we got last Halloween). And you're right it isn't called the "BC One Turn Mile", but in my view the race is truly unique at that configuration, and SA, CD and Mth all have bull ring grass courses Anyway, point is that in my view Monmouth has no redeeming qualities to host the BC. I didn't even mention that it needs to bring in bunch of portable seats!

The biggest thing Monmouth offers is location. It's the BC's opportunity to hold the event on the east coast/New York market, without having to deal with NYRA (not sure what's up with that relationship).

I kind of like the one turn mile also, but it doesn't bother me as much as the turf sprint down the hill. I just hate that course.

Valuist
06-29-2012, 09:38 AM
30,000 at Keeneland is a tightly packed crowd is one reason. Another is we'd all freak out if the Breeders Cup was run on Poly.

I think Arlington is a great venue for the BC, but they'll never get it with their main course surface either.

There's really only a few tracks capable, I think that's why we've sen just a few hold the event in the last few years. Example: Laurel Park was once in the running and supposedly that's why Stronach reconfigured the track but it's now dilapitated (clubhouse & exterior).

They ran it two straight years at Santa Anita when the main track wasn't real dirt (I can't even remember what it was....Pro Ride?).

What about Pimlico? They can house big crowds.

thespaah
06-29-2012, 09:06 PM
I don't know if using averages tells you that the weather is pretty much the same. NJ shore is prone to getting some nasty Nor'easters that time of year that are unique to the area (like the snow we got last Halloween). And you're right it isn't called the "BC One Turn Mile", but in my view the race is truly unique at that configuration, and SA, CD and Mth all have bull ring grass courses Anyway, point is that in my view Monmouth has no redeeming qualities to host the BC. I didn't even mention that it needs to bring in bunch of portable seats!
Actually the Nor'easter season doesn't get rolling until mid to late November. However, there is always a chance of a freak.
ABout the portable seats...Yep....Question is, are they worth it?
I think the temporary seats are unnecessary. Mth can fit 40k people. The event does not require cramming 60k people into the place to be a success.

Al Gobbi
07-27-2012, 10:13 AM
http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2012/07/monmouth_loses_bid_to_host_2013_breeders_cup.html

Canarsie
07-27-2012, 10:28 AM
http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2012/07/monmouth_loses_bid_to_host_2013_breeders_cup.html

Good I live in NJ and nearby to MP. They don't deserve it and it would be much better if it was held at Belmont.

Some_One
07-27-2012, 08:51 PM
So who's left? No Mth, No Nyra probably, CD just had it twice, SA again?

GregReinhart
07-27-2012, 08:55 PM
Del Mar

rastajenk
07-27-2012, 09:23 PM
Gulfstream put on a good show when they had it...a long time ago...once or twice, I forget.

depalma113
07-27-2012, 10:02 PM
On Breeders' Cup day(s), there are races that are not Breeders' Cup races which precede the Breeders' Cup stakes.

The horses in those races will be able to run on all legal race-day medication in the jurisdiction hosting the event, right?

If that is correct, then it is incredibly ironic, isn't it?


All races on Breeders Cup weekend would be run under Breeders Cup rules. It's a stipulation to get the event.

Some_One
07-27-2012, 10:02 PM
Del Mar

zero chance, turf course too narrow

GregReinhart
07-27-2012, 10:10 PM
zero chance, turf course too narrow

yeah I had read earlier this year they want to host it but the earliest is 2015.

Some_One
07-27-2012, 10:22 PM
yeah I had read earlier this year they want to host it but the earliest is 2015.
The way the CHRB moves and the money needed in a broke state, try 3015

Quesmark
07-27-2012, 11:11 PM
So who's left? No Mth, No Nyra probably, CD just had it twice, SA again?
Woodbine handled it well in 1996,of course they had a dirt main track back then....

Tom
07-28-2012, 10:23 AM
All I'm saying is that the BC is under increasing competition from abroad. Globalization and stuff.

What competition?
We lose a few foreign shippers - no big deal.
Frankly, we could cut the turf races down to the Mile and the Turf Classic and not lose anything. Too much turf racing in the Cup now.

Tom
07-28-2012, 10:25 AM
Woodbine handled it well in 1996,of course they had a dirt main track back then....

I would have liked WO, but with poly, it cannot be a championship event.
IMHO, no poly races should be graded. Maybe G3 at best.

anotherCAfan
07-28-2012, 01:54 PM
Let's have one more BC at the place where it began. A man can dream :sleeping:

wonatthewire1
07-28-2012, 02:36 PM
You would think that Monmouth is probably going to get it. I'm guessing NYRA is being black balled for some reason (maybe all the state intervention and recent turnover in management). But how they aren't in the rotation some how is beyond me. Now Churchill is probably in the penalty box for the lack of respect that they are giving the BC Juvy in their wonderful new points system. Who else does that leave on the East?

I thought Monmouth did a good job in 2007, despite the rain. But truthfully I think it's a poor venue logistically for the event. This was my opinion the first time around and it hasn't changed. There is basically one road in and out of the place and it gets congested on normal race days. Traffic in 2007 was ridiculous and the crowds were much smaller due to the weather. There is also a real lack of lodging in the immediate vicinity. I'm honestly not sure how the venue will handle the real attendence (if weather isn't an issue). It did seem well equipped to handle it in 2007, but we won't know until race day. Finally and it's not an issue to me, but there's the BC Dirt mile, run at a mile and seventy yards and the track not being able to run the sprint at seven furlongs. I'm sure some people will take issue with that. But then again some people take issue with everything.

I just feel like if the BC is coming to the area, Belmont just makes so much more sense than Monmouth. And for the record, I live 20 minutes away from Monmouth.


NJ Transit Shore line train stops right outside the track, so why bother driving there?
:bang:

Striker
07-29-2012, 12:27 AM
zero chance, turf course too narrow
They have talked about widening it, if it meant hosting a BC.

MaTH716
07-29-2012, 10:55 AM
NJ Transit Shore line train stops right outside the track, so why bother driving there?
:bang:
What about the people who don't have access to the train?

wonatthewire1
07-29-2012, 01:29 PM
What about the people who don't have access to the train?

Could drive to a train station, there are a few around...????

thespaah
07-29-2012, 09:48 PM
What about the people who don't have access to the train?
What about them?...The get in their car and drive to the nearest NJ TRansit station..
They are all over the state.
http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/Rail_System_Map.pdf
THose wishing to get to Mth from PA can connect to NJ Transit..
http://www.septa.org/connect/index.html
And of course those in NYC, Long Island, Downstate NY and CT can take trains to Penn Station and connect to NJ Transit as well.

MaTH716
07-30-2012, 09:47 AM
What about them?...The get in their car and drive to the nearest NJ TRansit station..
They are all over the state.
http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/Rail_System_Map.pdf
THose wishing to get to Mth from PA can connect to NJ Transit..
http://www.septa.org/connect/index.html
And of course those in NYC, Long Island, Downstate NY and CT can take trains to Penn Station and connect to NJ Transit as well.

Wow, I never realized how small New Jersey was. :rolleyes:

As a person who commutes on N.J. transit during the week, all I can say to a person coming from somewhere else off the coast line, is Good Luck (and bring a few days of rations).

RunForTheRoses
07-30-2012, 02:31 PM
[QUOTE=Valuist]I think Monmouth deserves another shot. You can't hold the weather in 2007 against them. If Mth has bad weather, good chance Bel or Aqu would too. What are the other options besides SoCal and CD? At Gulfstream the Europeans bitch and complain about the heat. Keeneland has never had it; surprised they haven't been given a chance.[/QUOTE
I agree 100%.
MP should get another look, the modifications made to the track for the BC in 2007 still look good to this day. The traffic wasn't as bad as many made it out to be. There are several backroads that people need to be made aware of right off exit 109 instead of exit 105 where the majority of the traffic issues were. There has been a major overhaul to the rt 35 and rt 36 intersection that will be up and running within the next 60 days. No one can forecast the weather but MP did a good job dealing with it for the whole week leading up to the BC races.

Yeah but the population in that area has really increased over the years, the shopping centers have increased...Rte 36 is backed up even in the winter without live racing.

RunForTheRoses
07-30-2012, 02:37 PM
Woodbine handled it well in 1996,of course they had a dirt main track back then....

Woodbine was a good choice but not now with Poly. They have a great turf course. Arlington also not a good choice with Poly but with Regular Dirt would be OK.

RunForTheRoses
07-30-2012, 02:43 PM
So who's left? No Mth, No Nyra probably, CD just had it twice, SA again?

How did Lone Start do? What about a small market place like Indiana Downs or Prairie?

I do agree a be all one day championship does not make too much sense for Horse Racing. The only major sport like that is football, to a certain extent and the comparison with racing is just not there. The old Belmont Fall Championship meet was fine. Other tracks would have big fall race days as well-Laurel had Washington Turf Cup? for older turfers, Laurel Futurity,etc...Meadowlands had Pegasus and Cup...

elhelmete
08-08-2012, 05:07 PM
Santa Anita '13

jeebus1083
08-08-2012, 05:20 PM
Breeders' Cup is eventually going to make the CD/SA rotation permanent. Five years going on six that Breeders' Cup will be at the same rotation of tracks.

Ironically, NYRA announces across-the-board stakes purse increases for the fall Belmont and Aqueduct schedules today. Jockey Club Gold Cup has been staked back to $1 million.

MickJ26
08-08-2012, 08:38 PM
The Breeder's Cup has long outlived it's usefulness and purpose anyway. They could hold it at Turf Paradise for all I care. They won't be getting anymore of my money.

Paseana
08-08-2012, 10:06 PM
They ran it two straight years at Santa Anita when the main track wasn't real dirt (I can't even remember what it was....Pro Ride?).

I think that when the Breeders Cup was awarded to Santa Anita on synthetic in back to back years 2008 and 2009, they were all gung-ho about globalizing the event and attracting overseas participation in the main-track races. It worked. They had record numbers of foreign horses in the Classic both years, and two of them ran 1-2 in 2008.

There was a major flip-side, though. I'm not 100% positive, but I think that not one horse that prepped for those Cups on natural dirt even hit the board on the main track either year! The backlash from domestic horsemen and women was huge!

They learned two important lessons. First, synthetic ISN'T the same thing as dirt (Doh). Second, running the BC on synthetic virtually eliminates 9 out of 10 major American dirt horses, which is totally in contradiction of what racing in this country is all about.

The other negative that happened, particularly in 2009, was that, with all those Euros opting to run in the Classic, the BC Turf was decimated. I think there was only seven horses in the BC Turf that year, which had to have been the smallest field ever assembled in that race. I might be wrong about that, but even if I am, I'm still pretty close.

Del Mar can widen their turf course all they want, but I really think it's safe to say that the Breeders Cup will never be run at a track with a synthetic surface again.

thespaah
08-08-2012, 11:12 PM
As a bettor, it is a great day(s) of racing. As a fan, I hate the Breeder's Cup. I'll be happy as a lark if it disappears.
I think it's time for the BC to be phased out. It's run it's course.

thespaah
08-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Wow, I never realized how small New Jersey was. :rolleyes:

As a person who commutes on N.J. transit during the week, all I can say to a person coming from somewhere else off the coast line, is Good Luck (and bring a few days of rations).
During the week vs Saturday ...two different animals, yes?

MaTH716
08-09-2012, 10:22 AM
During the week vs Saturday ...two different animals, yes?
Actually yes, Weekend schedules are much more sporadic.

wisconsin
08-09-2012, 10:29 AM
During the week vs Saturday ...two different animals, yes?


Once took rapid trasit from the airport in Newark (but to train station), and the PATH to the exhange near the Hyatt on the river in Jersey City. A long, crowded hike on a weekday. Took a cab back, much faster, even though it was no cheap date.

HuggingTheRail
08-09-2012, 11:04 AM
Considering the usual wisdom shown by the powers at be, the solution will be to run the BC at two separate venues - the Dirt races could be at Emerald, and the Turf races at Colonial....:rolleyes:

tbwinner
08-09-2012, 11:04 AM
I just laughed when they ran the DIRT MILE on Pro-Ride

:lol: :lol:

thespaah
08-09-2012, 04:58 PM
Actually yes, Weekend schedules are much more sporadic.
I meant are not the trains are less crowded?

When I was living in NJ, just for giggles, we decided to take NJ Transit from our homes in Bergen County to Mth. It was a good trip. We picked up the train in Westwood and two hours later we were at the track. No biggie.
I just don't see the problem with using mass transit as an alternative to driving.
Yes, I can empathize with the everyday train commuter who probably thinks the train system sucks. That is most likely because those commuters associate mass transit with work.

Tom
08-10-2012, 07:26 AM
I just laughed when they ran the DIRT MILE on Pro-Ride

:lol: :lol:

O the first three, wasn't it two were not on dirt and the other was 1m70 at Monmouth? :rolleyes:

They should call it the "Dirt mile or so."

bks
08-10-2012, 09:10 AM
Santa Anita confirmed for 2013 BC.

http://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cup-confirms-santa-anita-2013-host-track

Simple Syrup
08-10-2012, 07:38 PM
No real surprise. In thinking about a suggestion earlier in the thread, I would like to see Pimlico get a shot.

thespaah
08-11-2012, 11:53 PM
No real surprise. In thinking about a suggestion earlier in the thread, I would like to see Pimlico get a shot.
Crappy neighborhood. No hotels nearby.

Pine Tree Lane
08-14-2012, 02:19 PM
The biggest thing Monmouth offers is location. It's the BC's opportunity to hold the event on the east coast/New York market, without having to deal with NYRA (not sure what's up with that relationship).

I kind of like the one turn mile also, but it doesn't bother me as much as the turf sprint down the hill. I just hate that course.

I spoke to one of the Breeders' Cup PR folks in LA back in 2009 and asked if he thought it would come back to Monmouth. He stated that Monmouth would be the last of the "small track" venues (Arlington and Lone Star the others). He said the BC was instrumental in dressing up the physical plant of all three which was a positive, but that it most likely be a three track rotation (Belmont, Churchill, Santa Anita) for the most part.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

thespaah
08-14-2012, 05:14 PM
I spoke to one of the Breeders' Cup PR folks in LA back in 2009 and asked if he thought it would come back to Monmouth. He stated that Monmouth would be the last of the "small track" venues (Arlington and Lone Star the others). He said the BC was instrumental in dressing up the physical plant of all three which was a positive, but that it most likely be a three track rotation (Belmont, Churchill, Santa Anita) for the most part.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.
This is one the aspects of BC Ltd that has me thinking the BC should go quietly into the night. That being the total lack of "balls"...
The organization seems to have gone from showcasing their product across the continent to playing it safe with venues.
I am not so convinced we will see the BC at Belmont again either.

The Hawk
08-14-2012, 10:43 PM
I meant are not the trains are less crowded?

When I was living in NJ, just for giggles, we decided to take NJ Transit from our homes in Bergen County to Mth. It was a good trip. We picked up the train in Westwood and two hours later we were at the track. No biggie.
I just don't see the problem with using mass transit as an alternative to driving.
Yes, I can empathize with the everyday train commuter who probably thinks the train system sucks. That is most likely because those commuters associate mass transit with work.

Not even close. To get to Westwood now you'd need to switch in Secaucus, and the train from Monmouth to Secaucus (90 minutes) literally NEVER gets there in time to make the connection, which means up to an hour wait in that station alone.

It amazes me that NJ Transit has virtually the same schedule in the summer as in the winter for the NJ Coast Line -- with zero express trains in either direction on weekends -- as if the NJ shore gets the same number of visitors for each season. There used to be a "Pony Express" to Monmouth Park but that is long gone.

redshift1
08-14-2012, 11:41 PM
This is one the aspects of BC Ltd that has me thinking the BC should go quietly into the night. That being the total lack of "balls"...
The organization seems to have gone from showcasing their product across the continent to playing it safe with venues.
I am not so convinced we will see the BC at Belmont again either.


Let's see how the attendance and viewership go this year. Personally I enjoy seeing most of the top division horses competing for season titles in a two day venue. It still remains one of the biggest days in racing despite the disagreements over location, losing the BC would be a step back for racing.

.

thespaah
08-14-2012, 11:49 PM
Not even close. To get to Westwood now you'd need to switch in Secaucus, and the train from Monmouth to Secaucus (90 minutes) literally NEVER gets there in time to make the connection, which means up to an hour wait in that station alone.

It amazes me that NJ Transit has virtually the same schedule in the summer as in the winter for the NJ Coast Line -- with zero express trains in either direction on weekends -- as if the NJ shore gets the same number of visitors for each season. There used to be a "Pony Express" to Monmouth Park but that is long gone.
Did you notice the part where I stated it was in the 80's?
All In know is that I remember it being a trip that took a surprisingly shorter period of time than I expected. And we got there before first post.
Look, I am not surprised many who use NJ Transit trains on a regular basis would post cynical replies here.
That's that.

thespaah
08-15-2012, 12:15 AM
Let's see how the attendance and viewership go this year. Personally I enjoy seeing most of the top division horses competing for season titles in a two day venue. It still remains one of the biggest days in racing despite the disagreements over location, losing the BC would be a step back for racing.

.
Ok. Let's look at it from another direction.. Keep the BC. But run it in late September instead of the first week of November. This way more tracks could be in line for hosting the event. If not, get rid of it.
It used to be the highlight of the year. Now it's losing it's luster. How many European champions connections even bother to bring over their horses any more?

redshift1
08-15-2012, 01:45 AM
Ok. Let's look at it from another direction.. Keep the BC. But run it in late September instead of the first week of November. This way more tracks could be in line for hosting the event. If not, get rid of it.
It used to be the highlight of the year. Now it's losing it's luster. How many European champions connections even bother to bring over their horses any more?

Late September is fine that's only a week or two earlier.

I'd go with alternating between:

Santa Anita
Belmont
Churchill Downs

and maybe Gulfstream

As far as foreign horses it seems few owners are willing to ship their best stock overseas and the same can be said for U.S interests as well. Seeing another horse the caliber of Giants Causeway racing in the U.S. seems remote probably the same chance as seeing our best three year old racing in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.

.

rastajenk
08-15-2012, 06:34 AM
So all the attempts to internationalize the event are failing?

Then they should refocus their efforts to make it a national championship day (or two). Let the Arab oil ticks host the world championships and let it go at that.

The Hawk
08-15-2012, 11:07 AM
Did you notice the part where I stated it was in the 80's?
All In know is that I remember it being a trip that took a surprisingly shorter period of time than I expected. And we got there before first post.
Look, I am not surprised many who use NJ Transit trains on a regular basis would post cynical replies here.
That's that.

This:

I just don't see the problem with using mass transit as an alternative to driving.


...is what I was referencing. If you were referring to the 80's for some reason, yes, that was missed.

Pine Tree Lane
08-16-2012, 12:50 PM
Late September is fine that's only a week or two earlier.

I'd go with alternating between:

Santa Anita
Belmont
Churchill Downs

and maybe Gulfstream
As far as foreign horses it seems few owners are willing to ship their best stock overseas and the same can be said for U.S interests as well. Seeing another horse the caliber of Giants Causeway racing in the U.S. seems remote probably the same chance as seeing our best three year old racing in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.

.

Gulfstream no longer has a viable grandstand for that type of event.

redshift1
08-16-2012, 03:50 PM
Gulfstream no longer has a viable grandstand for that type of event.

The capacity was reduced and the viewing was less than optimal, is that what happened?