Disability Fraud

[bigmack]

Of late, I've been at a number of functions where several people have stated - I'm trying to get on disability.

I see TV ads from a "disability specialist" firm touting they'll file all paperwork and you don't pay unless you get accepted for disability. Which means, the firm is getting paid by taxpayers.

Turns out 1 in 20 Americans are getting disability payments. For anyone playing along @ home, that's 5%. That's next to impossible.

rQgqmF_DlOw

[wisconsin]

I sell cars to several people per year on disability. As much as I want to ask, I can't, but there has to be some job they can do.

[acorn54]

well here in new york if memory serves me 10 percent of the people are on medicaid, so 5 percent on some form of disability doesn't seem far fetched to me

[bigmack]

I sell cars to several people per year on disability. As much as I want to ask, I can't, but there has to be some job they can do.
This fits nicely with my Renegotiate Everything concept.

If you have a bad back, take a job as a telemarketer. Can't sit? Get 'em a bed and a headset. Start talkin' for that check.

[TJDave]

Mexico is filled to the brim with 'em. Virtually all the expats under 60 are on some form of disability and most those over 65 are addicts of some sort. Most of my friends and associates are Mexican. The gringos aren't worth my time.

[bigmack]

The gringos aren't worth my time.
It stands to reason. They're trying to stretch that dollar best they can. What is it now, 4billion pesos to the dollar?

You're in restaurant consulting, I'm in a boat load of other crap. Either one of us in a week could put together a team to ferret out IN THE VERY LEAST, people who are on disability that are currently WORKING.

How inept is this Federal G? Very.

[bigmack]

Vid that wouldn't play embedded.

Drink in the crew from your g-person employees.

5tz-RKKu2xQ

[TJDave]

Hadn't even thought about collecting disability and working. Bad enough that millions receive payments for bogus claims.

That's chutzpah.

[Robert Fischer]

The people hit hardest by the gov't inefficiency are those who are actually disabled.

[bigmack]

Hadn't even thought about collecting disability and working. Bad enough that millions receive payments for bogus claims.

That's chutzpah.
According to the tape, once you get "on" disability your eligibility for life is on the honor system. :lol:

How do you file taxes as an employee of the Federal Government AND get a hefty SSI check every month?

Feds can't figure out how to cross check shit..?

Christ. If they're that stupid, I want in on this scam. Tomorrow I buy a skateboard in hopes of breakin' a bone 'er two.

Somebody hep me. Is the figure of 200Billion/yr in payments correct?

[TJDave]

Christ. If they're that stupid, I want in on this scam. Tomorrow I buy a skateboard in hopes of breakin' a bone 'er two.


I think we're overqualified for SSI. Plus they only pay about 500 per month. I got tires that cost more than that.

[bigmack]

I think we're overqualified for SSI. Plus they only pay about 500 per month. I got tires that cost more than that.
I know plenty and the least I can think of is getting $1100.

Full disability? That's big dough. How do you think that TSA agent racked-up $108K? How do you think those 'disabled' under 60 types you see in Baja are making ends meet? SSI and family trust? They get all of $1500.

[JustRalph]

I'm disabled. I live in MD

[riskman]

How do you file taxes as an employee of the Federal Government AND get a hefty SSI check every month?

If this is happening, then we have a serious problem with govt. employees. It would not surprise me if the IRS is falling down here. Where most of the fraud occurs is in the private sector where employers cooperate by paying off the books. If they get caught they are in big trouble also. This is happening, no doubt about it,with the private sector. Cheating is accepted as part of the game to beat the system.

[Robert Goren]

I am on SS disability. Anybody who thinks it is easy to get on doesn't know the facts. You almost have to have a lawyer who specializes in SS to get on. The only people who have an "easy" path are those with permanent kidney failure that I know of. I am very sick and was in the hospital 7 times last year and just got out from 4 day stay yesterday. It took me over a year and finally won an appeal on the third time. I had over 700 pages of medical records. You get paid what you would get if you waited til you turned your full retirement age which in my case would have been age 66. Once you win, you get back paid since the day you filed. By law the lawyers get a pretty small % of the back pay only. You get Medicare after you have been on SSD for year and a half. You may get Medicaid if SSD checks are small enough. That amount I believe varies from state to state. I don't know for sure, but I suspect the largest group on SSD are the people who are bi-polar. I had several part timers who worked for me who had that afflection. One of them had been on and off SSD 3 times. Most of them try to get off because their checks are so small. Most who do aren't able to stay off from I know. Like everything I am sure there is some fraud, but I don't think it is too high because it so hard to get on.

[JBmadera]

I'm surprised that the rate is so high, but then again there are tons of folks that will work like hell to avoid working and try to get something for nothing (doh!!! what about just working hard at work????).

From my own experience, heart trouble after a recent surgery, getting on temp disability wasn't hard, but the default going forward was for the claim to be rejected first, ask questions later.

[Saratoga_Mike]

"Collecting disability became even easier as rejected applicants were allowed to appeal before an administrative judge without anyone from Social Security present to defend its decision. So even though two-thirds of applicants were initially rejected, 50 to 60 percent ultimately joined the program.

And the rolls soared, outstripping population growth. There are 1.5 times more people on disability than there were in 1990. Almost one in 20 Americans from the ages of 25 to 64 now collects benefits, more than twice the share of two decades ago. And the cost has risen in tandem. Disability outlays have grown about 5.6 percent a year after inflation in the last two decades, compared with just 2.2 percent for other Social Security spending."

Source: NY Times 4/25/12

[Robert Goren]

"Collecting disability became even easier as rejected applicants were allowed to appeal before an administrative judge without anyone from Social Security present to defend its decision. So even though two-thirds of applicants were initially rejected, 50 to 60 percent ultimately joined the program.

And the rolls soared, outstripping population growth. There are 1.5 times more people on disability than there were in 1990. Almost one in 20 Americans from the ages of 25 to 64 now collects benefits, more than twice the share of two decades ago. And the cost has risen in tandem. Disability outlays have grown about 5.6 percent a year after inflation in the last two decades, compared with just 2.2 percent for other Social Security spending."

Source: NY Times 4/25/12I don't where you get your numbers, but I have never meant anyone who got on SSD on the initial application. I have meant only one person who got it on the first appeal. He had a major stroke. The first time you get a fair hearing is on the second appeal. I think they just automatically turn down everybody on the initial application and pretty much turn down everyone on the first appeal. The only exception to this would be the people with kidney failure. They are handled differently than everybody else for reasons I don't know. The massive amounts of medical records they require is mind boggling. A note from your doctor doesn't cut it. I am sure that there are some on SSD that should be, but I am also sure that there also some that should be who aren't. I know of a couple of people who are 62 who took early SS rather than fight for disability. They get Medicaid rather Medicare for their health benefits. There is no way either of them could hold any job at anyplace I ever work. Even there were a job they could do, they would still have major health care costs (upwards of 50K a year). No employer is going to put them on their health insurance. Their rates would go through the ceiling. I do not think it would be too hard to find people in a similar boat as them.

[Wagergirl]

my son is disabled, and is on SSD. We need the extra just to pay for his meds and his medical. Not to mention the extra things that he needs that other children don't require.

But I do get frustrated, when the person across the street from me is trying to get on disability because "she has bad knees." When I see her going to her lawyers, she has a walker or a cane, and really working it. But any other time, you'd never know that her knees bother her in the least.

SSD is not easy to get on, but dang I still wish it were harder still. But not only that, set of checks and balances.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I don't where you get your numbers, but I have never meant anyone who got on SSD on the initial application. I have meant only one person who got it on the first appeal. He had a major stroke. The first time you get a fair hearing is on the second appeal. I think they just automatically turn down everybody on the initial application and pretty much turn down everyone on the first appeal. The only exception to this would be the people with kidney failure. They are handled differently than everybody else for reasons I don't know. The massive amounts of medical records they require is mind boggling. A note from your doctor doesn't cut it. I am sure that there are some on SSD that should be, but I am also sure that there also some that should be who aren't. I know of a couple of people who are 62 who took early SS rather than fight for disability. They get Medicaid rather Medicare for their health benefits. There is no way either of them could hold any job at anyplace I ever work. Even there were a job they could do, they would still have major health care costs (upwards of 50K a year). No employer is going to put them on their health insurance. Their rates would go through the ceiling. I do not think it would be too hard to find people in a similar boat as them.

The NY Times.

[turninforhome10]

Disability is the career path of choice for many of those who live in my trailer park. Know one family that has 3 generations of SS disability living in the same house. The grandafather who is 60 something has been on SSD for 10 years, the son who is 40 something fro 3 years and the grandson mid 20s just got approved. Must have an apprenticeship program. Out of my 7 immediate neighbors, 4 are on SSI-D and 2 are trying to get on it and one actually works.

[Robert Goren]

The NY Times.What a rarity you are! A conservative who actually believes something written in the NY Times. God can take me now because I have seen it all. :D

[Saratoga_Mike]

What a rarity you are! A conservative who actually believes something written in the NY Times. God can take me now because I have seen it all. :D

In general, I think the Times tries to present accurate information. However, I do believe there's an institutional bias at the paper, because most of the journalists lean left. Overall, given the breadth of coverage, I think it's a great paper. The WSJ has really improved their non-business news reporting over the past few yrs, though.

[Marshall Bennett]

There are at least 2 in my subdivision on it, both mow grass and seem to do most that everyone else around here does. Makes my blood boil.

[cj's dad]

RG, I can speak first hand that in 1996 when my wife was diagnosed with ovarian cancer she applied for and received full disability within 3 months and received back payments from the month she applied.

[Robert Goren]

RG, I can speak first hand that in 1996 when my wife was diagnosed with ovarian cancer she applied for and received full disability within 3 months and received back payments from the month she applied. I am not so sure that would happen so fast today. The person I knew who got it on his first appeal could not walk and barely could speak from a stroke. It took him 8 months. He did get back paid to the date he applied. It took me a second appeal and 14 months to get mine.

[Robert Fischer]

I know plenty and the least I can think of is getting $1100.

Full disability? That's big dough. How do you think that TSA agent racked-up $108K? How do you think those 'disabled' under 60 types you see in Baja are making ends meet? SSI and family trust? They get all of $1500.

I happen to be on disability(permanent full), and I do not receive as much as $1100...

I'm also one of those "under 60 types", and occasionally(although not often enough) I can be spotted enjoying life..

I actually try rather hard to not look like a sick person.

The monthly check goes to rent and utilities. There is no rental assistance available.

Disabled people are lumped in with "children&families", an even bigger mess. If I would like, I could wait 2 years behind illegals and poor w/ multiple kids for a chance to live at a reduced rent in a "public housing development".

Until I am successful enough to support myself and cover health insurance I will continue to collect the big dough. The day can't come soon enough.

Scum bags who cheat the system come in all walks of life. The ones who cheat this system(disability fraud) and the system itself; which is poorly aligned to individual needs of the disabled, hurt the disabled. Seems like everyone knows a fraud on here. I had my own landlord make a comment the other day that I wasn't sure how to take. Just sharing a perspective, take it or leave it.:ThmbUp:



I am not so sure that would happen so fast today. The person I knew who got it on his first appeal could not walk and barely could speak from a stroke. It took him 8 months. He did get back paid to the date he applied. It took me a second appeal and 14 months to get mine.

took me a couple/few months IIRC

[badcompany]

If this is happening, then we have a serious problem with govt. employees. It would not surprise me if the IRS is falling down here. Where most of the fraud occurs is in the private sector where employers cooperate by paying off the books. If they get caught they are in big trouble also. This is happening, no doubt about it,with the private sector. Cheating is accepted as part of the game to beat the system.

Actually this is the benchmark for disability fraud and it happened in a publicly owned entity, The Long Island Railroad:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/nyregion/charges-in-lirr-disability-scheme.html?pagewanted=all

11 Charged in L.I.R.R. Disability Fraud Plot
By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and MOSI SECRET

Published: October 27, 2011
Eleven people were charged on Thursday in an enormous fraud scheme in which hundreds of Long Island Rail Road workers falsely claimed to have disabling injuries, with some of them collecting tens of thousands of dollars in annual pensions while spending time playing golf, law enforcement officials said.

[bigmack]

In 2010, Social Security’s disability program cost $124 billion plus another $59 billion for Medicare (after two years, disability recipients automatically qualify for Medicare). This exceeded $1,500 for every U.S. household. For the past two decades, disability spending has increased at a 5.6 percent annual rate, compared with 2.2 percent for the rest of Social Security. As a result, disability represents nearly one in five dollars of Social Security spending, up from one in 10 in 1988.

These outlays, exceeding $1,500 for every U.S. household, comprised 7.3 percent of federal non-defense spending last year—a sum that is larger than interest payments on the federal debt.

To be insured by the SSDI program, an individual must have worked in at least five of the ten most recent years prior to the onset of disability. Once insured, a worker is qualified to receive SSDI benefits if SSA determines that due to a medical condition that has lasted or is expected to last for at least one year or result in death, the worker is unable to either engage in her previous work or to adjust to a different type of work. (They can't do anything??)

If benefits are awarded, SSA begins making monthly cash payments to the beneficiary five months from the onset of disability. 5 Monthly benefits currently average $1,150 for new awardees and are indexed to the Consumer Price Index. Two years following the onset of disability, beneficiaries also become entitled to Medicare benefits. Both cash and Medicare benefits continue until the beneficiary experiences a medical recovery, passes away, or reaches the Full Retirement Age. In the latter case, she transitions to Social Security retirement
.
Autor and Duggan (2010) estimate that in 2009, the present value of cash and medical benefits for a new SSDI awardee at the average age of enrollment of 48.8 years was $270,000.
Abstract from MIT: http://economics.mit.edu/files/6880

[Saratoga_Mike]

The $270,000 is all of the future expenses add up and discounted back to present value, not a single year number.

[badcompany]

Disability is the career path of choice for many of those who live in my trailer park. Know one family that has 3 generations of SS disability living in the same house. The grandafather who is 60 something has been on SSD for 10 years, the son who is 40 something fro 3 years and the grandson mid 20s just got approved. Must have an apprenticeship program. Out of my 7 immediate neighbors, 4 are on SSI-D and 2 are trying to get on it and one actually works.

:lol:

In my neck of the woods, going to the doctor is a social activity. Every day, thousands of supposedly sick elderly people take a mini road trip, clog up the transit system, hang out and gossip in the waiting room, and eventually see the doctor, who looks at them and says, "You're getting old. Take this prescription and come back in two weeks."

[Tom]

Roberts, Joseph P..... Gimp.
Roberts, Wallace M.... Assistant Gimp
Roberts, Terry L. .......Gimp Trainee

[ldiatone]

my wife was considered diabled on the operating table. got 8 months back pay. she is now on ssd. she can not walk without a waker. she takes baclofen for "leg" spasms. but must take a muscle relaxor for that med. she cannot drive. she needs help doing things like ....putting her shoes on cooking and a few others. BUT, she can work at home or any where she COULD get a job but she can only earn a certain amount of money. so one can work and be on ssd.
brother-in-law had a brain aneurysm an nearly died unless his dad was there to help. he was 36. couldnt work to many meds...brain messed up-250 coils in his head-- a number of things. could not get ssd. had layers-doctors nothing help.
turn 50 years of aged....approved

[fast4522]

Exactly how did you become so disabled Robert?

[Robert Goren]

Exactly how did you become so disabled Robert?I have Crohn's disease. Diagnosed in 2003. In 2007, I developed chronic diarrhea as a result. I now have 8-12 bowel movements a day. They have not been able to slow that. My small intestine has become so scarred and narrow that it gets blocked. I had surgery in Nov of 2010 to help with that. It did not work. in 2011, I was hospitalized 7 times with a blocked bowel. The pain is terrific when that happens. Morphine is the only thing that touchs it. So far the bowel has opened back up in about 3 days. If doesn't, they will try surgery again. I living pretty well with Crohn's until Sept of 2006 when every gland in my body stopped working for awhile for reasons that were never determined. I almost died. They all started working again, but the Crohn's got a lot worse. I was in the hospital over the last weekend. There is a chance that the Crohn's has spread to my stomach. I am awaiting biopsy results to see if that is the case. I take Humira and a steriod, Budesonide, as my 2 main Crohn's drugs. I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

[fast4522]

Ok, I will as the question directly, as a young man what did you do in your lifestyle to set you up as you are.

[Grits]

Ok, I will as the question directly, as a young man what did you do in your lifestyle to set you up as you are.
Oh my! You don't know anything at all about Chron's Disease do you, Fast? What an unfortunate question.

[Producer]

This topic really strikes a chord with me. My 21 year old brother, who I donated a kidney to 7 years ago, is about to get dropped from disability. The kid has had kidney problems since he was a baby and had 3 operations before the age of 2. He now takes about 10 different pills a day and has diabities as a result of the transplant/meds.

I believe my mother collects something like $700 per month from his disability, which about half goes to meds (and thats only because the most expensive med, luckily his doctor gives him free samples so we don't have to buy them, or else it would be over $500 per month) and the other half to help with the bills. To think that all these people are cheating the system and a young kid who really needs the help is going to get dropped is sickening. They are also threatening to drop his health coverage, knowing damn well that no insurance company will ever offer him coverage.

The state of affairs in this country is beyond disgraceful.

[Ocala Mike]

Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis are horrors. Robert, I know you are probably aware of this, but there are many support groups out there, and I hope you explore their availability in your area if you have not done so already.

[Robert Goren]

Ok, I will as the question directly, as a young man what did you do in your lifestyle to set you up as you are.I don't know. They have no clue as to the causes of Crohn's. In fact, they are not even sure exactly what it is. The only know what the symptoms are. They are pretty sure it is somehow related to the immune system. The drugs they proscribe for it lessen the immune system. Anybody taking them them has to careful not to catch things like TB or pneumonia. People get it in their teens, but it can it can appear at anytime. But people generally don't get from ages 30-50. It does seem to run family, but they have not found a generic link yet. No one in my family had it to my knowledge. I was able to work with it for several years until the diarrhea became so bad. The Crohn's diarrhea also come with a real urgency, that is very little time to time to find a bathroom. Often less than a minute or two. There is a whole lot stuff on line about it if you are really interested, but not many real answers. It is mostly treatment stuff and people sharing their experiences with the disease.

[Robert Goren]

Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis are horrors. Robert, I know you are probably aware of this, but there are many support groups out there, and I hope you explore their availability in your area if you have not done so already.I belong to one. My doctor made me join when I was first diagnosed. They were of great help early on. A bother of a co-worker led it until he died in an accident several years ago. Since his death, the group has kind of floundered.

[Grits]

Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis are horrors. Robert, I know you are probably aware of this, but there are many support groups out there, and I hope you explore their availability in your area if you have not done so already.

Last night, I went to bed unable to believe where this thread went. There are no boundaries, there is no end at this website to what some of you will type. I don't know what is wrong with you gentlemen.

"Exactly how did you become disabled"

"What did you do in your lifestyle to set you up"

The moderators of this board are not stepping in to remove this stuff. There are limits, and some of these posts are beyond all that should be allowed.

No one should feel they have to answer a question this personal, this invasive or this ignorant. Not Ever.

[lamboguy]

This topic really strikes a chord with me. My 21 year old brother, who I donated a kidney to 7 years ago, is about to get dropped from disability. The kid has had kidney problems since he was a baby and had 3 operations before the age of 2. He now takes about 10 different pills a day and has diabities as a result of the transplant/meds.

I believe my mother collects something like $700 per month from his disability, which about half goes to meds (and thats only because the most expensive med, luckily his doctor gives him free samples so we don't have to buy them, or else it would be over $500 per month) and the other half to help with the bills. To think that all these people are cheating the system and a young kid who really needs the help is going to get dropped is sickening. They are also threatening to drop his health coverage, knowing damn well that no insurance company will ever offer him coverage.

The state of affairs in this country is beyond disgraceful.i know this story only to well. there was a kid that was the nicest kid that you ever could meet. he didn't do drugs, he wasn't a wise guy. but he got hurt on his job. he lived in new hampshire and went on workman's comp. he was seeing a doctor and being treated for excruciating pain in his spine. he lived alone by his choice in a condominium. after 2 years his benefits ran out and he was in limbo with the state of new hampshire for an extension. he had to make it for about 6 months and live through the pain. the doctor that he was seeing him dropped his therapy and pain medication. this kid never complained though. the pain was so bad that this kid could not take any more of it, and he burned his condo up with himself in it. the system had failed him and the rest of us who ignore others.

[Wagergirl]

Ok, I will as the question directly, as a young man what did you do in your lifestyle to set you up as you are.

I have a friend who just turned 21. She has left a very healthy life style. She is not overweight. She has never done drugs, and has never drank. However, at the age of 12 she was diagnosed with IBS, about a year ago they changed that diagnosis to Crohn's. Tell me.. what do you suppose she did as a child to set herself up like that?

Really??

[Marshall Bennett]

Last night, I went to bed unable to believe where this thread went. There are no boundaries, there is no end at this website to what some of you will type. I don't know what is wrong with you gentlemen.
Something appears to be angering you other than this thread. That's just my opinion.

[Grits]

Something appears to be angering you other than this thread. That's just my opinion.

Nothing is angering me. I was stunned by the boldness. The question posed hurt me for Robert, but this is just me. And I don't know Robert, not from Adam. I did know that he has Chron's because I've seen him state it before.

I would add, note Wagergirl's post, along with my own. Too, my nephew developed Chron's in his senior year of high school. He almost died. He spent 4 months in the hospital and still graduated with his class. Nothing about his lifestyle caused him to contract this disease.

At some point, one needs to know such things.:(

[iceknight]

Nothing is angering me. I was stunned by the boldness.

At some point, one needs to know such things.:( I support the views voiced by you in this thread. When fast asked the first question, while it was invasive and personal (and bold), it was still just a simple, direct question.
But the second one, was outright presumptive and shows "fast''s wrong line of thinking assuming that "lifestyle" is what caused the disease/disability. It can help to be a little objective, or gasp.. maybe do some research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001295/) once some keywords are thrown in.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Nothing is angering me. I was stunned by the boldness. The question posed hurt me for Robert, but this is just me. And I don't know Robert, not from Adam. I did know that he has Chron's because I've seen him state it before.

I would add, note Wagergirl's post, along with my own. Too, my nephew developed Chron's in his senior year of high school. He almost died. He spent 4 months in the hospital and still graduated with his class. Nothing about his lifestyle caused him to contract this disease.

At some point, one needs to know such things.:(

Exactly. I agree with your sentiment here. Hell, it actually did anger me. The first question seemed okay (given Robert volunteered the info), but the second question was classless.

[fast4522]

I admit to no knowledge of this except other than lifestyle and what ones parents had for a lifestyle. Smoking is huge, while even here in New Hampshire where everyone smokes the after effects at retirement age impact the quality of the golden years if your even lucky to last that long. Do not take things personal Grits, you need your beauty sleep.

[Grits]

Fast, I'm aging, yes, I need all the beauty sleep I can get. A spa, like this little honey finds herself in, would be nice one of these days or weekends even. ;)

I hope you're not upset with me.

g

[PaceAdvantage]

What the hell just happened between Grits and Fast? First she was furious at him...now she's hoping he isn't mad at her?

Did I miss something? (other than Grits also being annoyed at my lack of moderation)

[HUSKER55]

JUST BLOWING OFF STEAM.....WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

[iceknight]

A spa, like this little honey finds herself in, would be nice one of these days or weekends even. ;)
g Saratoga has some hot springs and spas near by, does nt it?

[ElKabong]

Ok, I will as the question directly, as a young man what did you do in your lifestyle to set you up as you are.

I take a different view to your question than some here.... I viewed your post as if you were asking Robert while sitting across the table from him....while maybe others thought this was made in a judgemental tone. It's just the unfortunate environment of the internet--- no voice inflection or facial expression to gage by. Just words. I saw your questioning one way, others saw it another

I was diagnosed with U/C 3 months ago, I know of no lifestyle choices of mine that could have possibly contributed..... I took no exception to his question, didn't take it as a judgemental harrassment. I can see where some might take exception if they viewed it as a comment made in a different manner.

[Robert Goren]

I didn't have a problem with the first question. The second question did seem a little judgemental and showed a total lack of knowledge of Crohn's. I answered it anyway because I always answer half way reasonable questions asked of me here and Crohn's is pretty rare disease that not a lot of people know about. Hopefully Fast (and others) learned a little about Crohn's from my answer. One thing is for sure, I have been treated far worse by other posters on this forum. I have developed a really thick skin since I started posting here. Thanks to Grits and others for sticking up for me.

[ElKabong]

The 2nd question I see is "Ok, I will as the question directly, as a young man what did you do in your lifestyle to set you up as you are."

I find it interesting you'd take exception to this, b/c this is basically what I asked my surgeon in the pre-op visit. I wanted to know WTH I did to bring this on. I don't have an off the trail life, very conservative in just about all aspects. It was out of curiosity I asked this question to not only the surgeon, but also others w/ U/C and the G.I was sent to.....That's the way I saw Fast's question > out of curiosity

U/C just happens as I found out.

In any event, I wish you the best with the battle.

[Grits]

What the hell just happened between Grits and Fast? First she was furious at him...now she's hoping he isn't mad at her?

Did I miss something? (other than Grits also being annoyed at my lack of moderation)

Yep, society is in a decline, not only for children on buses. Not directed at you, of course. :lol:

[fast4522]

What the hell just happened between Grits and Fast? First she was furious at him...now she's hoping he isn't mad at her?

Did I miss something? (other than Grits also being annoyed at my lack of moderation)


Mike,
In the past I have told Grits I like her posts because her comments are a contrast to the next guy says. Furious at anyone I doubt, I welcome the "hey wait a minute buddy" and look for her to step in to provide us with her perspective.

[Grits]

Mike,
In the past I have told Grits I like her posts because her comments are a contrast to the next guy says. Furious at anyone I doubt, I welcome the "hey wait a minute buddy" and look for her to step in to provide us with her perspective.

MMMMMWAAHHHH. :kiss: At least I have one here that may not grill me for opening my mouth. Thank goodness.

Women tend to bring a different take. You can call us mall cop or whatever. Its all in vain, because, still, we will fall on the side of empathy, sometimes bringing it to "hey, wait a minute". Usually, too, we have better manners than men. Sorry, but we do. We have less testosterone, we're not bulls in a china shop.

What the thread has confirmed for me, though, (with the revealing of Chrons, IBS, UC, etc) is the one fact that I've ALWAYS known about you gentlemen. ALWAYS!

. . . . Many of you really are full of sh**. You're admitting it. You've been diagnosed! :lol::lol::lol:

[HUSKER55]

YOU TELL'EM GRITS!!!! I AGREE! SHAME ON YOU GUYS! :D :D