NBA Finals series odds

[slew101]

First out, OKC -170, Miami +150.

Thoughts?

I expect this price to drop significantly by Tuesday night, maybe OKC -130? I have to think money is going to come in on Miami.

I'm taking the Heat simply because of the value. Last year, I thought Miami would win but Dallas was my play simply because the odds were too good to pass up.

[horses4courses]

First out, OKC -170, Miami +150.

Thoughts?

I expect this price to drop significantly by Tuesday night, maybe OKC -130? I have to think money is going to come in on Miami.

I'm taking the Heat simply because of the value. Last year, I thought Miami would win but Dallas was my play simply because the odds were too good to pass up.

It's OKC -155/ MIA +135 with Cal Neva books in Nevada this morning.
I'm guessing the Heat will get some action as the dog.....

[cj]

First out, OKC -170, Miami +150.

Thoughts?

I expect this price to drop significantly by Tuesday night, maybe OKC -130? I have to think money is going to come in on Miami.

I'm taking the Heat simply because of the value. Last year, I thought Miami would win but Dallas was my play simply because the odds were too good to pass up.

I'm surprised the Heat aren't favored just due to being in the limelight so much.

[Canarsie]

I'm surprised the Heat aren't favored just due to being in the limelight so much.

Basketball is a sport that doesn't get much wagering action except from the regular customers. If it goes to 130 or less (think it sets at 150) the wiseguys will look to middle it.

[dav4463]

Odds are I won't watch a whole lot of it. I can't stand the hype!

[slew101]

Was looking at a couple offshore books. Ones that had OKC -170, now down to -165 or +145 for Miami.

It's OKC -155/ MIA +135 with Cal Neva books in Nevada this morning.
I'm guessing the Heat will get some action as the dog.....

[slew101]

Anyone know who that woman is always in the Heat runway at the half and end of games, and always shown on TV? LeBron kisses her every time, and I thought I saw Wade do the same the other night?

Not exactly what I'd want my star players focused on at halftime. It looks absurd.

Odds are I won't watch a whole lot of it. I can't stand the hype!

[Valuist]

The West was definitely stronger than the East. The Heat struggled to beat an aging Boston team. They never had to play Chicago either. Certainly had an easier road to get there. I'll take the battle tested team, and its Ok-City.

But who will feel more pressure? It has to be Miami. Lebron already knows if they don't win, he'll get labelled as a guy who can't win a championship.

[cj's dad]

Anyone know who that woman is always in the Heat runway at the half and end of games, and always shown on TV? LeBron kisses her every time, and I thought I saw Wade do the same the other night?

Not exactly what I'd want my star players focused on at halftime. It looks absurd.

His Mother !

[jdhanover]

A better question may be what % of fans outside Florida are rooting for Miami? Over/under is probably 10%. "Everyone I know says who is Miami playing? That is who I am rooting for" :lol:

[cj]

A better question may be what % of fans outside Florida are rooting for Miami? Over/under is probably 10%. "Everyone I know says who is Miami playing? That is who I am rooting for" :lol:

The Thunder needed the Heat to be the opponent for this Hollywood script to play out. It is the ultimate good vs evil showdown, even if the "evil" team isn't really evil.

They'll never live down the "not 4, not 5..." bullshit.

[maddog42]

I do not favor OKC in this series as much as some. Okc does match up well with the Heat. I guess Lebron will have to guard Durant. Nobody else can do it. This will take a little starch out of both their sails. Thats a wash. Sefalosha( I assume) will guard Lebron. I give the advantage to OKC in the other matchups.
I hate this 2-3-2 format.

[BlueShoe]

My prediction is OKC in 6. However, do not feel comfortable laying anything around 150. The better value would seem to be betting game by game. In case anyone needs a reminder, the schedule format is 2-3-2, not 2-2-1-1-1.

[elysiantraveller]

I'm just excited to watch this series. If I was making a prediction I would go with the Heat in 6. OKC has not faced a defense nearly this stout or physical. I don't think it will be pretty but I think the Heat take this series in OKC in game 6.

I hate the 2-3-2 format BTW.

[cj]

I do not favor OKC in this series as much as some. Okc does match up well with the Heat. I guess Lebron will have to guard Durant. Nobody else can do it. This will take a little starch out of both their sails. Thats a wash. Sefalosha( I assume) will guard Lebron. I give the advantage to OKC in the other matchups.
I hate this 2-3-2 format.

Durant will spend time guarding Lebron too. His defense is really underrated. He just doesn't always guard the toughest guy because he is more valuable on offense. When he has though, he has been very good this year.

[Canarsie]

I hate the 2-3-2 format BTW.

I'm not a fan of it either but its really the only way to do it. If they went back to the old format OKC would be tied up for five days even when they weren't there. Most rooms would be paid for and not used that would make their advertisers and business community angry. I'm pretty sure its much easier to schedule events, interviews, and whatever else when your not moving for one game.

Hockey can do it because the media that follows the finals in minute compared to any other sport.

[Valuist]

:cool: A better question may be what % of fans outside Florida are rooting for Miami? Over/under is probably 10%. "Everyone I know says who is Miami playing? That is who I am rooting for" :lol:

If everyone watching knew what a crook Aubrey McClendon was/is, that number would be a lot higher. I'm sort of rooting for them just because I hate the idea of star players arrainging their free agent signings together. Having said that, after seeing what McClendon has done to Chesapeake shareholders, its not easy rooting for Ok-C.

[Canarsie]

Durant will spend time guarding Lebron too. His defense is really underrated. He just doesn't always guard the toughest guy because he is more valuable on offense. When he has though, he has been very good this year.

I'm drifting off topic a bit but they know and respect each other highly. LBJ invited Durant to work out with him during the lockout.

LeBron James bracing for epic Finals battle vs. Kevin Durant

http://www.freep.com/article/20120611/SPORTS03/206110368/LeBron-James-bracing-for-epic-Finals-battle-vs-Kevin-Durant

ItioFbo0vWw

[slew101]

The format is driven by the media. It was first started in the 1985 finals after Boston-LA went 7 in 1984, and CBS was upset they had to load everything up 3 times for the last 3 games.

I always thought the Lakers caught a huge break in 1985 with that format switch. They had blown the prior year's Finals, then had a 2-1 lead after a blowout win in Game 3 in 1985. Boston won Game 4 at the buzzer with a Dennis Johnson jump shot. The Celtics reward was to stay in LA for two more days and LA had Game 5 at home, which they won instead of going back to Boston.

LA was clearly the better team and might have won anyways, but I think it would have gone 7 that year without the format switch.

The World Series started that 2-3-2 format way back, maybe in the 1970s or 1960s?

I'm not a fan of it either but its really the only way to do it. If they went back to the old format OKC would be tied up for five days even when they weren't there. Most rooms would be paid for and not used that would make their advertisers and business community angry. I'm pretty sure its much easier to schedule events, interviews, and whatever else when your not moving for one game.

Hockey can do it because the media that follows the finals in minute compared to any other sport.

[slew101]

Latest series odds: OKC -175, Miami +155.

Thought the money would come on Miami, hasn't happened.

[horses4courses]

http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/photos/2012/06/11/heat_t650.jpg


Vegas Sun article highlights the public's demand for betting the Thunder, and turning away from the Heat.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/talking-points/2012/jun/12/nba-finals-in-vegas-sports-books-favor-thunder-bet/

[cj]

I personally think the format of 2-3-2 is completely irrelevant as to who wins series. The Heat will have to win 2 in OKC to be champs and I think that would be the case whether Miami was home for games 3-4-5 or 3-4-6.

[Valuist]

If everyone watching knew what a crook Aubrey McClendon was/is, that number would be a lot higher. I'm sort of rooting for them just because I hate the idea of star players arrainging their free agent signings together. Having said that, after seeing what McClendon has done to Chesapeake shareholders, its not easy rooting for Ok-C.

More news today:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/12/us-chesapeake-ceo-idUSBRE85B1JS20120612

The entire Chesapeake board should be replaced and Aubrey should be shown the door.

[ten2oneormore]

I think the fact it is -175 says a lot .I guess Miami's biggest advantage is their experience but Durant is so clutch its hard to see him getting antsy.One thing is for sure if the D Wade of the Boston series shows up its a wrap and OKC wins in 5 or 6.It is messed up what happened to the Sonics though.

[cj]

I think the fact it is -175 says a lot .I guess Miami's biggest advantage is their experience but Durant is so clutch its hard to see him getting antsy.One thing is for sure if the D Wade of the Boston series shows up its a wrap and OKC wins in 5 or 6.It is messed up what happened to the Sonics though.

Miami hasn't faced defense like this very often. Lebrick looks afraid to take jumpers, but he better if they want to win.

[JustRalph]

His Mother !

And dont get in front of her car after 10p.m.

;)

[ten2oneormore]

Miami hasn't faced defense like this very often. Lebrick looks afraid to take jumpers, but he better if they want to win.

I think when they are firing on all cylinders the Pacers have arguably the best defense in the league.The problem is that they can't score like OKC and Granger sure isn't Durant.KD is just unbelievable in the 4th quarter just about every game these playoffs and he can't be stopped.The reason Miami is probably going to lose is their transition D , I mean even the old azz Celtics were exploiting them in transition so OKC is going have a field day with their young legs.

[Valuist]

I think when they are firing on all cylinders the Pacers have arguably the best defense in the league.The problem is that they can't score like OKC and Granger sure isn't Durant.KD is just unbelievable in the 4th quarter just about every game these playoffs and he can't be stopped.The reason Miami is probably going to lose is their transition D , I mean even the old azz Celtics were exploiting them in transition so OKC is going have a field day with their young legs.

Chicago was better defensively this season than either OKC or Indy. Bulls had the best FG % defense (40.7%) by a pretty decent margin over the Heat, who are capable of playing strong defense themselves. I know without Rose they obviously aren't Finals worthy but people have short memories.

[Ocala Mike]

The World Series started that 2-3-2 format way back, maybe in the 1970s or 1960s?




Actually as far back as 1924, except for a couple of WWII years when they went to a 3-4 due to travel restrictions.

[cj]

Chicago was better defensively this season than either OKC or Indy. Bulls had the best FG % defense (40.7%) by a pretty decent margin over the Heat, who are capable of playing strong defense themselves. I know without Rose they obviously aren't Finals worthy but people have short memories.

The Thunder are different than most teams in length and athleticism. Even the Bulls can't match them in that regard. Hell, part of it is the Bulls giving up Thabo for a weak draft pick. And, when the Thunder get a stop, it is off to the races. They beat the Heat in fast break points 24-4, and that came from DEFENSE.

In basketball offense and defense can be closely related. The Thunder can do both. If they chose to play a style similar to the better teams in the East, I'm sure statistically they would rank higher. However, watching these playoffs and seeing what the Thunder have done to Dirk, Kobe and the two 7 footers, and then Parker and Duncan, it is way off base to think the Thunder don't have a very good defense.

[Valuist]

The Thunder are different than most teams in length and athleticism. Even the Bulls can't match them in that regard. Hell, part of it is the Bulls giving up Thabo for a weak draft pick. And, when the Thunder get a stop, it is off to the races. They beat the Heat in fast break points 24-4, and that came from DEFENSE.

In basketball offense and defense can be closely related. The Thunder can do both. If they chose to play a style similar to the better teams in the East, I'm sure statistically they would rank higher. However, watching these playoffs and seeing what the Thunder have done to Dirk, Kobe and the two 7 footers, and then Parker and Duncan, it is way off base to think the Thunder don't have a very good defense.

Its not that it isn't good, I just don't think its the best in the league. And having said that, Ok-C is superior offensively to the Bulls.

Re: Miami, not sure if Wade isn't 100% or he just isn't as good as he used to be.

[Pace Cap'n]

Coach Brooks, end-of-third-period interview: "When we play good defense, we're a great team. When we don't, we're just an average team." (paraphrased)

[Zippy Chippy]

I like this Seattle article today about how the guy who sold the Sonics must feel.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2018416411_kelley13.html

[ElKabong]

my favorite part of game 1? When Kevin Durant flashed the 'Hook Em Horns' sign to the camera in the starters intro's!

I bet that drives die hard Sooners fans batshit. The University the live to hate, is saluted by their superstar on their home floor. A little love to his alma mater. Delicious...

[maddog42]

The Thunder are different than most teams in length and athleticism. Even the Bulls can't match them in that regard. Hell, part of it is the Bulls giving up Thabo for a weak draft pick. And, when the Thunder get a stop, it is off to the races. They beat the Heat in fast break points 24-4, and that came from DEFENSE.

In basketball offense and defense can be closely related. The Thunder can do both. If they chose to play a style similar to the better teams in the East, I'm sure statistically they would rank higher. However, watching these playoffs and seeing what the Thunder have done to Dirk, Kobe and the two 7 footers, and then Parker and Duncan, it is way off base to think the Thunder don't have a very good defense.

Do you think we would be as good defensively inside without Perk? I damn sure don't. Maybe its the defensive attitude he brought... hard to pin down. Okc bringing in Perk is a lot like when the Bulls brought in Cartwright. They could never get past those good teams from the East until he got there. Jordan really needed a guy like that to show them a thing or two about defense. Jordan and Pippin would have gotten a few rings without Cartwright(indeed they did) but he accellerated the process. Same with Durant and Westbrook, they will get a few rings without Perkins probably, but he was the missing piece.

[maddog42]

my favorite part of game 1? When Kevin Durant flashed the 'Hook Em Horns' sign to the camera in the starters intro's!

I bet that drives die hard Sooners fans batshit. The University the live to hate, is saluted by their superstar on their home floor. A little love to his alma mater. Delicious...
Kevin Durant could have came out for the intro's with Swastikas on his chest, the mark of the beast on his forehead and a dead baby under each arm and the crowd wouldn't have cared. One year at Texas? No big deal. He's ours now, and he will be here for 10 more years. He loves it here and we love him.

[cj]

my favorite part of game 1? When Kevin Durant flashed the 'Hook Em Horns' sign to the camera in the starters intro's!

I bet that drives die hard Sooners fans batshit. The University the live to hate, is saluted by their superstar on their home floor. A little love to his alma mater. Delicious...

I hate to tell you, but nobody cares.

[cj]

Do you think we would be as good defensively inside without Perk? I damn sure don't. Maybe its the defensive attitude he brought... hard to pin down. Okc bringing in Perk is a lot like when the Bulls brought in Cartwright. They could never get past those good teams from the East until he got there. Jordan really needed a guy like that to show them a thing or two about defense. Jordan and Pippin would have gotten a few rings without Cartwright(indeed they did) but he accellerated the process. Same with Durant and Westbrook, they will get a few rings without Perkins probably, but he was the missing piece.

No, we wouldn't be. My only point was that there are very few teams that have those types of inside players. Will it be worth it to pay him 9 million a year to match up well a few times a season? If Dwight Howard had ended up in Dallas, probably so. Otherwise, it is more important we keep Harden and Ibaka.

[ElKabong]

Kevin Durant could have came out for the intro's with Swastikas on his chest, the mark of the beast on his forehead and a dead baby under each arm and the crowd wouldn't have cared. One year at Texas? No big deal. He's ours now, and he will be here for 10 more years. He loves it here and we love him.

Afterall, it is Okla City :)

If he's 'yours', then why does he get the hell outta that shithole up there as soon as the season is over & head to Austin? Wait. I know why :lol:

I'm stating fact btw.

In fact, guess where Durant had okc Thunder workouts during the lockout this Autumn...
(a) Okla City, OK
(b) Norman, OK
(c) Austin, TX

ooh, you aren't going to like the answer I'm thinking :lol: :lol:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/09/28/td-preps-with-thunder-players-during-austin-workouts/

“We all knew we wanted to get together somewhere,” Collison told the Oklahoman. “UT was great to us. They let us use all the facilities. They treated us great. They let use the gym, the weight room, the training room. So it worked out real well. We were really appreciative of all the hospitality.”

[ElKabong]

I hate to tell you, but nobody cares.

And I LOVE to tell you, you'd be wrong in that statement, LOL

Don't think for a moment he doesn't laugh at you hicks up there. He does. Signing autographs "hook em Horns" to sooner fans licking his toes in admiration...tweeting LSU>OU....anything to poke the okie hicks that live to hero worship athletes. Funny stuff.

:)

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/308692-sooners-db-fires-back-at-durant-diss

08:09 AM ET 09.27 | Kevin Durant is burnt orange, through and through, and he's not shy about tweaking Sooners Nation. He's added the phrase "Hook 'em Horns" to each autograph he's signed at OU football games. He's sat courtside at OU basketball games and flashed the two-finger Hook 'em Horns sign. He's even taken his needling to Twitter. On Saturday, Durant posted a simple but around these parts scathing message: "LSU > OU..." [Monday], one of the Sooners, sophomore defensive back Tony Jefferson, fired back. "Kevin durant. Please stop talking trash about the sooners. You play in Oklahoma. Regardless if you went to Texas. We support u #jerk :

[PaceAdvantage]

And I LOVE to tell you, you'd be wrong in that statement, LOL

Don't think for a moment he doesn't laugh at you hicks up there. He does. Signing autographs "hook em Horns" to sooner fans licking his toes in admiration...tweeting LSU>OU....anything to poke the okie hicks that live to hero worship athletes. Funny stuff. "You hicks?" Careful there...you seem to be the one taking this far too seriously...

[cj]

And I LOVE to tell you, you'd be wrong in that statement, LOL

Okay, maybe nobody was a bit strong. I'm sure there are plenty of idiot fans everywhere. Roy Williams loved talking up OU while he was playing for Dallas. I imagine that bothered at least one fan. Who cares? If that makes you feel better, go for it. Like I said, he went to Texas for brunch.

[cj]

"You hicks?" Careful there...you seem to be the one taking this far too seriously...

He just uses that stuff to be an asshole. Yeah, KD hates it so much here he signed for six more years when he could have moved on and made more money elsewhere. He really despises Oklahoma City.

[ElKabong]

He just uses that stuff to be an asshole. Yeah, KD hates it so much here he signed for six more years when he could have moved on and made more money elsewhere. He really despises Oklahoma City.

and leaves town the moment the season's over, to Austin.

signed,
your loving asshole :)

[ElKabong]

Okay, maybe nobody was a bit strong. I'm sure there are plenty of idiot fans everywhere. Roy Williams loved talking up OU while he was playing for Dallas. I imagine that bothered at least one fan. Who cares? If that makes you feel better, go for it. Like I said, he went to Texas for brunch.

Roy williams...nobody listened to him here to be honest. He wasn't a star of Durant's magnitude by any stretch

I can post a dozen or more links like the one below, where OU diehards are rankled at Durant's poking OU with the Hook Em sign, prodding sooners at every turn. ..What's funny is, just like the article by the Minn writer a few weeks back that called okies "hicks", everyone gets defensive in OKLA. Sun rises in the east, okies recoil at being called hicks. Something to it, maybe....

Durant does this and laughs at the locals there while doing so. Thank you for paying him so much, he spends a lot of that $$$$ in Austin :)

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2011/09/26/should-kevin-durant-be-able-to-diss-ou/

[cj]

and leaves town the moment the season's over, to Austin.

signed,
your loving asshole :)

Again, who cares?

[cj]

Again, who cares?

I just figured it out. It is probably bugging the hell out of you that OKC will actually win a title before the Rangers, a team that really choked one off last year. It is OK, they'll get one sooner or later, especially if they can keep their star off the sauce.

[ElKabong]

"You hicks?" Careful there...you seem to be the one taking this far too seriously...

your sarcasm meter is in need of repairs, sir :)

[ElKabong]

I just figured it out. It is probably bugging the hell out of you that OKC will actually win a title before the Rangers, a team that really choked one off last year. It is OK, they'll get one sooner or later, especially if they can keep their star off the sauce.

Nah. I don't pin my hopes and dreams on any team winning a title (as I've posted here many times). Even when UT won the MNC in 2005, it was all forgotten by the next day. It's all entertainment to me, as a fan.

If okc wins I'm going to feel good for Durant. He earned it if they wind up winning. Fans, Mav's or thunder's, are just paying the freight. Nothing more.

Not many have figured that part out

[cj]

Roy williams...nobody listened to him here to be honest. He wasn't a star of Durant's magnitude by any stretch

I can post a dozen or more links like the one below, where OU diehards are rankled at Durant's poking OU with the Hook Em sign, prodding sooners at every turn. ..What's funny is, just like the article by the Minn writer a few weeks back that called okies "hicks", everyone gets defensive in OKLA. Sun rises in the east, okies recoil at being called hicks. Something to it, maybe....

Durant does this and laughs at the locals there while doing so. Thank you for paying him so much, he spends a lot of that $$$$ in Austin :)

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2011/09/26/should-kevin-durant-be-able-to-diss-ou/

Like I said, I'm sure there are a few idiot OU fans, but those that carry it over to the Thunder are few and far between. I've watched Mike Gundy get a standing O in the arena, and the same went for Brandon Weeden. OSU fans don't boo Barry Switzer or Bob Stoops. It just isn't an issue for 99.9% of the people here.

I can tell you this much. Before the Thunder came, I couldn't listen to sports radio. It was Sooners football all year long. I have no idea how people can talk about and listen to conversation about high school recruiting. It is a joke. Now, you get very few Sooner (or OSU) calls during the offseason, and those that do come in are usually cut off pretty quick.

[ElKabong]

Again, who cares?

Thunder fans.... :)

Like I said, I can post up links all nite long about how the "hicks" up there are hypersensitive & Kevin knows it, plays to it. The whole things amuses me (and half the state of Tx)

Going to bed, nite -nite

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2011/10/05/okc-needs-to-chill-about-kevin-durant/

Once again, it’s time for the folk from Oklahoma to follow the lead of its 23-year-old ambassador and “chill.”
People from OKC frequently freak about Durant, but sadly not always in a good way.

[cj]

Not many have figured that part out

You really think fans haven't figure out they are paying? Sounds pretty ridiculous to me. It isn't like ticket prices are a secret. It is entertainment, just like going to a movie or a concert or a broadway show.

[cj]

Thunder fans.... :)

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2011/10/05/okc-needs-to-chill-about-kevin-durant/

Once again, it’s time for the folk from Oklahoma to follow the lead of its 23-year-old ambassador and “chill.”
People from OKC frequently freak about Durant, but sadly not always in a good way.

Yawn...a few idiots, like I said. It isn't an issue. Trust me, I live here.

[ElKabong]

aw heck, now that you've made me get serious for a change :) .....

The only athlete in Dallas that even remotely has ever been admired here like Durant is in Okc is Roger Staubach. Staubach has made his home here since his rookie year. Durant otoh flees to Austin in the offseason (most would given the choice he's afforded). He makes no bones about his preference. Neither does Roger.

I do find it funny Durant pisses on the leg of Ou fans up there and it's the subject of many articles and tweets. I agree, nobody SHOULD care, but they do up there. The energy Broker I had Rep our company is an OU grad, she even commented on it...and SHE left Okla as soon as she graduated :confused:

Best wishes, I'm pulling for (Durant)

[ElKabong]

Before the Thunder came, I couldn't listen to sports radio. It was Sooners football all year long. I have no idea how people can talk about and listen to conversation about high school recruiting. It is a joke. Now, you get very few Sooner (or OSU) calls during the offseason, and those that do come in are usually cut off pretty quick.

I was @ Tinker, TDY in the Fall of 78.....ask maddog next time you see him about tv in okc in the fall back then....switzer had about 5 shows, lacewell had one too...kept asking myself 'how much rice can a chinaman eat?" in regards to ou football....jim stanley had only one 30 minute show, for oSu.....monotonous

Sounds like it's starting to change, that's good

[cj]

aw heck, now that you've made me get serious for a change :) .....

The only athlete in Dallas that even remotely has ever been admired here like Durant is in Okc is Roger Staubach. Staubach has made his home here since his rookie year. Durant otoh flees to Austin in the offseason (most would given the choice he's afforded). He makes no bones about his preference. Neither does Roger.

I do find it funny Durant pisses on the leg of Ou fans up there and it's the subject of many articles and tweets. I agree, nobody SHOULD care, but they do up there. The energy Broker I had Rep our company is an OU grad, she even commented on it...and SHE left Okla as soon as she graduated :confused:

Best wishes, I'm pulling for (Durant)


Durant actually bought house in Miami for the summer. If it makes you feel better that a few clowns find it an issue, have fun it with it. It really isn't.

[maddog42]

Thunder fans.... :)

Like I said, I can post up links all nite long about how the "hicks" up there are hypersensitive & Kevin knows it, plays to it. The whole things amuses me (and half the state of Tx)

Going to bed, nite -nite

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2011/10/05/okc-needs-to-chill-about-kevin-durant/

Once again, it’s time for the folk from Oklahoma to follow the lead of its 23-year-old ambassador and “chill.”
People from OKC frequently freak about Durant, but sadly not always in a good way.

You had better run off to bed, because no matter how many links you can post on Durant and "hicks" up here, I can post 10 times as many about how he loves Okc. Not the Sooners, OKC. As a Longhorn he doesn't like OU. I respect that. Hell I ADMIRE that.
We seem to have touched on a sore subject with a lot of Texas Fans:Namely OKC has pretty much destroyed all the Texas teams.Swept Dallas and humiliated the Spurs by winning 4 in a row and ending their 20 game win streak. Then your beloved Texas baseball team doesn't even make it to post season. Tough month for Texas Fans. Go on to bed and get some rest.

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=3988

This was from 4 years ago when the Thunder were terrible. He liked OKC then, he loves it now.

[Valuist]

As I mentioned earlier, if the basketball public knew more about Aubrey McClendon, the harder it would be to root for the Thunder.

This details things pretty good:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-us-chesapeake-mcclendon-profilebre8560ib-20120607,0,5464685.story

[cj]

As I mentioned earlier, if the basketball public knew more about Aubrey McClendon, the harder it would be to root for the Thunder.

This details things pretty good:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-us-chesapeake-mcclendon-profilebre8560ib-20120607,0,5464685.story

It isn't like it isn't public knowledge. People just don't care unless he is going to put on a uniform. He is only a minority owner anyway.

[Valuist]

It isn't like it isn't public knowledge. People just don't care unless he is going to put on a uniform. He is only a minority owner anyway.

Its public knowledge around Oklahoma City and to those that follow the market or the nat gas industry. But Joe Six Pack in New York or Phoenix who is watching the Finals probably has no idea.

[Canarsie]

I like this Seattle article today about how the guy who sold the Sonics must feel.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2018416411_kelley13.html

I grew up in the same neighborhood as the previous owner did. I have no recollection of him but many of my friends said I knew him.

Had to go to a long distance funeral this week and his name came up in a discussion old times. Seems there was a biography on him on one of the cable channels that my friend saw. He stated to me that most of it was nonsense the best sport he participated in was being a stickball pitcher. Something about him being an all star or something like that quarterback.

He got what he deserved yet again he wants to rewrite history. Maybe I did know him and he was just ignored for obvious reasons.

[Canarsie]

As I mentioned earlier, if the basketball public knew more about Aubrey McClendon, the harder it would be to root for the Thunder.

This details things pretty good:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-us-chesapeake-mcclendon-profilebre8560ib-20120607,0,5464685.story

I knew of this article and its really a non issue for now. if king Stern decides otherwise he will be out in the blink of an eye. The best commissioner in all of sports even with his infamous GM playing deal with Chris Paul.

There was only one owner people really rooted against and over time he became an icon. If I had a dollar every time a fan said wish we had an owner like Steinbrenner I would have a max contract for five years.


Well maybe I'll make an exception for the Warrior owner the fans there can't stand him.


To me Dolan is evil especially what he does with Isiah Thomas and did to Donnie Walsh. Here's a guy who resurrected the franchise and gets the cold shoulder and boot. If Dolan had only listened to him he would have kept more pieces to the puzzle.

[Canarsie]

Its public knowledge around Oklahoma City and to those that follow the market or the nat gas industry. But Joe Six Pack in New York or Phoenix who is watching the Finals probably has no idea.

I'm a dummy and knew about it didn't think it was such a big deal for now. The majority of the audience watching now isn't hard core they don't really care.

The only thing that matters is rooting against LBJ. At one time it was 48 states against two but even Washington eventually moved over to OKC something I find truly remarkable.

[Canarsie]

You guys probably think I'm crazy but the person I admire most in this series is Mike Miller. Its fairly obvious he's in severe pain yet he chooses to compete. Just watch the way he carries his arms and elbows going back up the court in defensive mode. Its painful for me to watch can only imagine how much pain he really is in. He tries awfully hard trying to grab rebounds and box out but it just isn't there.

To me that is a true champion no matter what team he plays on.

[cj]

Its public knowledge around Oklahoma City and to those that follow the market or the nat gas industry. But Joe Six Pack in New York or Phoenix who is watching the Finals probably has no idea.

I agree, I just don't think anyone is going to care much about a minority owner rich guy being a crook as far as the basketball goes.

[ceejay]

and leaves town the moment the season's over, to Austin.

I would say that most 23-year-old's would think that Austin is more fun than OKC. That said, KD did spend close to $2MM in 2011 on a house in an upscale gated addition in northwest OKC. (publicly available documentation)

[ElKabong]

Its public knowledge around Oklahoma City and to those that follow the market or the nat gas industry. But Joe Six Pack in New York or Phoenix who is watching the Finals probably has no idea.

This guy was the subject of 2 radio shows on my way home today (and past days on kfxr as well). One a financial show (kfxr), the other was a sportstalk show (the Ticket)

On the surface, the guy seems like a real shithead. As long as they're winning the locals won't turn on him, ala Tom Hicks. It's when things go south, and they always do, is when the guy will takes shots like Hicks did, from locals

Maybe he quietly sells his share soon. Could be a good idea

[cj]

Games like this are the reason I'm still not sold Brooks is ready to win us a championship. Perkins is worthless in this series, yet Brooks sticks with him no matter how much he is killing the team. He has nobody to guard on the Heat, is probably the worst offensive player I have ever seen, and makes it a 4 on 5 game when we have the ball. We wind up taking horrible shots because the other team can just ignore him. He can't even catch most of the passes when he is open.

Yes, Lebron fouled KD at the end and it probably should have been a tied game, but that would have been a lot of luck. We lost the game in the 1st Q and the beginning of the 3rd, all with Perkins on the floor.

[elysiantraveller]

Games like this are the reason I'm still not sold Brooks is ready to win us a championship. Perkins is worthless in this series, yet Brooks sticks with him no matter how much he is killing the team. He has nobody to guard on the Heat, is probably the worst offensive player I have ever seen, and makes it a 4 on 5 game when we have the ball. We wind up taking horrible shots because the other team can just ignore him. He can't even catch most of the passes when he is open.

Yes, Lebron fouled KD at the end and it probably should have been a tied game, but that would have been a lot of luck. We lost the game in the 1st Q and the beginning of the 3rd, all with Perkins on the floor.

I'm not sure why he is still out there as well.

They kind of have the same problem with Ibaka as well because he is much better when he just kind of roves the paint swatting shots. Sure he is going to get blocks but when he plays that way they are automatically shortstaffed on the perimeter and they automatically concede some offensive boards.

Collison is having a huge series thus far and it is probably their solution as he is a better defender on the perimeter than either of the above two.

[maddog42]

Games like this are the reason I'm still not sold Brooks is ready to win us a championship. Perkins is worthless in this series, yet Brooks sticks with him no matter how much he is killing the team. He has nobody to guard on the Heat, is probably the worst offensive player I have ever seen, and makes it a 4 on 5 game when we have the ball. We wind up taking horrible shots because the other team can just ignore him. He can't even catch most of the passes when he is open.

Yes, Lebron fouled KD at the end and it probably should have been a tied game, but that would have been a lot of luck. We lost the game in the 1st Q and the beginning of the 3rd, all with Perkins on the floor.

The next time Perkins scores more than Ibaka, I'll remind you of this. Brooks will probably win this thing despite making a few mistakes. I noticed that you blame Perkins and not Westbrook for the terrible first half. The whole team except for maybe Harden made a bunch of goofs.

[cj]

The next time Perkins scores more than Ibaka, I'll remind you of this. Brooks will probably win this thing despite making a few mistakes. I noticed that you blame Perkins and not Westbrook for the terrible first half. The whole team except for maybe Harden made a bunch of goofs.

Westbrook took some bad shots, but like I said, a lot of times that has to do with Perkins being in the game. The other team doesn't have to guard him, so his guy shadows Durant while clogging the lane. Westbrook waits and waits for Durant or Ibaka to get open, and since he is the point guard, he gets stuck with the ball and the shot clock winding down.

Thabo doesn't get much defense either. We are basically playing 3.5 against 5 in the half court with Perkins and Thabo in the game. Whether Ibaka scores or not, at least the other team knows they have to guard him. Seriously, is there anything more painful than watching Perkins flounder around after getting an offensive rebound?

[cj]

Here is a comment from a guy that knows his basketball. I just read it after I posted:

"I don't blame Westbrook for the slow start, like I never do. The fact is that our current starting lineup forces him to shoot - SOMEBODY has to. No one has pointed out the KD started out 1-6, and Ibaka missed the first two wide open shots he took - at least one of them off a nice pass from Westbrook. If Ibaka hits those shots, RW0 has two more assists and the first sequence of the game (before Harden entered) is more like 14-8. When the scoreboard is going from 5-0 to 9-2 to 12-2, Westbrook's instinct is to take over the scoring load. That's not a fault of his, that's a fault of our starting lineup.

It will be interesting to see how hard headed Brooks is about his starting lineup. Perkins has NO role in the opening matchups (interestingly Spoelstra realizes this with Joel Anthony). I think Collison should start, and our post rotation should be Collison-Ibaka-Durant (moving from the 3 to the 4). But this is an all-too-familiar pattern of falling behind in games, because our starting lineup forces us to play 3 on 5 on offense."

[maddog42]

Westbrook took some bad shots, but like I said, a lot of times that has to do with Perkins being in the game. The other team doesn't have to guard him, so his guy shadows Durant while clogging the lane. Westbrook waits and waits for Durant or Ibaka to get open, and since he is the point guard, he gets stuck with the ball and the shot clock winding down.

Thabo doesn't get much defense either. We are basically playing 3.5 against 5 in the half court with Perkins and Thabo in the game. Whether Ibaka scores or not, at least the other team knows they have to guard him. Seriously, is there anything more painful than watching Perkins flounder around after getting an offensive rebound?

The matchup doesn't favor Perkins to start, I agree with that part. Waiting so long to put Harden in was the biggest mistake. We will have to go small through most of this series.The "big" lineup was outscored 37-23 in the game. If Ibaka is hitting his jumper then the matchup favors him, to play.If not then I'd rather have Perkins. Your hyperbole about Perkins is just that. He didn't have a good game. Lots of things cost us this game. Free throws and foul trouble come to mind. Lack of defensive stops is tops on my list. I would love for Collison to start.

[maddog42]

Perkins was 1-5 19:36 min.
Sefolosha 1-5 37:21
Collison 0-0 14:32
Fisher 1-5 24:00
Ibaka 2-5 29:21
Perkins outscored a FEW of these guys because he hit his free throws. I 'll quit making excuses for Perkins if you'll give some blame to the other guys. Perk also had 8 rebounds in just 19 minutes.

[cj]

Perkins was 1-5 19:36 min.
Sefolosha 1-5 37:21
Collison 0-0 14:32
Fisher 1-5 24:00
Ibaka 2-5 29:21
Perkins outscored a FEW of these guys because he hit his free throws. I 'll quit making excuses for Perkins if you'll give some blame to the other guys. Perk also had 8 rebounds in just 19 minutes.

I'm not blaming Perkins as much as I'm blaming Brooks for not adjusting. Perk should have been out of the game after about 3 minutes. It was painfully obvious what was going on. Perkins isn't suddenly going to become an offensive player, he is what he is at this point in his career. Brooks was just too stubborn for too long last night.

[cj]

An outsider's view of the Perkins dilemma:

http://arizona.sbnation.com/2012/6/15/3088930/will-scott-brooks-cost-the-oklahoma-city-thunder-the-nba-title

[Canarsie]

I'm not blaming Perkins as much as I'm blaming Brooks for not adjusting. Perk should have been out of the game after about 3 minutes. It was painfully obvious what was going on. Perkins isn't suddenly going to become an offensive player, he is what he is at this point in his career. Brooks was just too stubborn for too long last night.

The guy goes from genius adjusting to the Spurs and now because of one loss he's back to being an idiot. I guess Spoelstra and Brooks are in the same boat they would have a long night drinking together. If I recall correctly lots of people left both teams for dead in their last series. Granted he made a mistake in my eyes but the game is over lets see what he does in game three.

[maddog42]

An outsider's view of the Perkins dilemma:

http://arizona.sbnation.com/2012/6/15/3088930/will-scott-brooks-cost-the-oklahoma-city-thunder-the-nba-title
Statistically (batting average) Hal Trosky was a better hitter than Willie Mays
or Mickey Mantle, but you'll have a hard time convincing me. Sometimes you make a substitution to take teams out of their offensive rhythm. Unfortunately he takes us out of rhythm more.lol. I think his icy stare and scolding glances improved this team and made them tougher.

[Canarsie]

An outsider's view of the Perkins dilemma:

http://arizona.sbnation.com/2012/6/15/3088930/will-scott-brooks-cost-the-oklahoma-city-thunder-the-nba-title

As one who really isn't a fan of Westbrook as a near max or max player I felt the criticism was unjustified in its intensity. He's an above average player who has only been a point guard since joining OKC. Its the old piling on stuff LBJ must have been laughing inside and saying "how does it feel MBW"?

How can the guy write an article and not even mention Harden's name? Without him the game isn't even close and he didn't get the ball much in the second half.

If I was the coach my preference would be for Harden to shoot from the perimeter and Westbrook attempt to drive through the lane. I'll give Spoelstra credit because when Westbrook did that he kept on calling timeout would have loved to hear what he said.

[cj]

The guy goes from genius adjusting to the Spurs and now because of one loss he's back to being an idiot. I guess Spoelstra and Brooks are in the same boat they would have a long night drinking together. If I recall correctly lots of people left both teams for dead in their last series. Granted he made a mistake in my eyes but the game is over lets see what he does in game three.

I still think he is a good coach, and I'm confident he will adjust. Everyone makes mistakes, and that includes sideline coaches like myself. I certainly never came remotely close to calling him an idiot.

[maddog42]

As one who really isn't a fan of Westbrook as a near max or max player I felt the criticism was unjustified in its intensity. He's an above average player who has only been a point guard since joining OKC. Its the old piling on stuff LBJ must have been laughing inside and saying "how does it feel MBW"?

How can the guy write an article and not even mention Harden's name? Without him the game isn't even close and he didn't get the ball much in the second half.

If I was the coach my preference would be for Harden to shoot from the perimeter and Westbrook attempt to drive through the lane. I'll give Spoelstra credit because when Westbrook did that he kept on calling timeout would have loved to hear what he said.

Above average? I think you can make an argument that he shouldn't be an all-star (maybe), but "above average"? Only if you call Rondo and Parker "above average". He is more inconsistent than those 2, but he is also younger. He had a crappy first half and a really good 2nd half. That even happens to all-stars.

[Canarsie]

I still think he is a good coach, and I'm confident he will adjust. Everyone makes mistakes, and that includes sideline coaches like myself. I certainly never came remotely close to calling him an idiot.

I wasn't referring to you personally just the fan base in general who always state "what have you done for me lately".

Seriously if there was an 0.2% chance of him being replaced who would be your choice? Its amazing to me that these two guys are getting hammered a little after each game and Thibodeau got a complete pass because of injury. Spoelstra would never be afforded the same.

Right now these are the two best teams in basketball. The game involves lots of runs back and forth hence there are going to be ups and downs.

For a fan who really has no rooting interest except for hating LBJ the first two games have been pretty good to view. I'm sure GM Stern (whom I highly respect) is very happy so far.

[Canarsie]

Above average? I think you can make an argument that he shouldn't be an all-star (maybe), but "above average"? Only if you call Rondo and Parker "above average". He is more inconsistent than those 2, but he is also younger. He had a crappy first half and a really good 2nd half. That even happens to all-stars.

I set the bar high sorry but that's me. When he drives to the rack he's really really good. But if I have the best or second best player in the NBA on my team that's a compelling reason to look for him more. If I have a shooter like Harden try your best to find him. The regular season is played for home court and you have that. Did you see that at least two Heat players were headed to the defensive end once a shot went off?

Your a fan of the team I get it. When it comes to the Red Sox, Saints, and Devils I live and die almost every call.

The Celtics told Rondo we will go as far as you can carry us anointing him the team leader. I don't think in my lifetime that will be said to Westbrook.

The reason he has a good second half is because Durant turns into SUPERMAN opening up lanes and shots for him.

I'm shocked nobody mentioned when Chalmers stole the ball from him in a key moment.

Not that I agree with all of this but here's a reporters view of Westborrok.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19356867/westbrooks-the-problem-for-thunder-he-just-doesnt-realize-it

[Canarsie]

never came remotely close to calling him an idiot.

If I recall correctly I once told you that your sports IQ is pretty high. I like engaging in conversation with people like that and choose not to with idiots. We don't have to have the same opinions that's the nature of sports people seeing things differently.

You once said I was nuts and rightfully so because I stated its my preference to have Jim Plunkett (mhrip) in a big game. But that's how I like to rate players, how they perform on the big stage.

That baton has been passed to Durant on that point its not even negotiable. He's so much better than Kobe. Anthony can do it in the regular season but can't carry his team to more than one win.

The same goes for Brooks he took out a team that won twenty in a row winning four straight. He gets tons of respect for me the national media should give him far more recognition. His timeout speeches are really good they make a good listen.

[dav4463]

I think the only mistake the Thunder made was calling that timeout after the steal when they had a chance to go down and tie or take the lead with less than 12 seconds to play. If Westbrook flew down there and got one of his basket and fouls....no one would be talking bad about him.

As it happened, Thunder called timeout and allowed the Heat (who were reeling) to catch their breath and get set to play defense.

[elysiantraveller]

One thing about Westbrook that most don't take into account is that he crashes the offensive glass more than any other PG in the league aside from maybe Rondo. 4-6 of those extra shots that people bitch about are putbacks on the glass that other pointguards simply don't get because A) they aren't good enough at the rim and B) can't finish like he can.

[maddog42]

When is the last time the Thunder have been this bad shooting free throws?
When is the last time that Perkins attempted more free throws and made more than Kevin Durant? And also made a higher percentage? The leagues best free throw team misses 5 in one quarter. Amazing.

[maddog42]

OKC holds Miami to 37.8% shooting and still loses. I would have bet anything this would never happen.

[lansdale]

OKC holds Miami to 37.8% shooting and still loses. I would have bet anything this would never happen.

That's how they won. Between this game and the last, it really looks like the NBA is looking to hand this series to the Heat no matter how well OKC plays. OTOH, their free-throw shooting has been uncharacteristically sharp while OKC's was brick city. I think that you can chalk up OKC's foul-shooting, Harden's poor shooting, and the unforced TOs in the fourth quarter, to the fact that this is still a young team playing in a hostile environment in the Finals for the first time. I think they'll win the next game. They have to find a way to get Durant more shots and Fisher fewer.

Cheers,

lansdale

[slew101]

I don't think OKC has played well in this series at all but others can judge that better. They've played in streaks, Miami has been more consistent, especially offensively. And the FTs have hurt OKC.

Definitely been some questionable calls in the series, but that happens every series. Has Miami gotten too many calls? Not sure. LeBron did foul out in Game 4 in Boston, but Pierce was in foul trouble the entire series.

[QUOTE=lansdale]That's how they won. Between this game and the last, it really looks like the NBA is looking to hand this series to the Heat no matter how well OKC plays.

[Canarsie]

When is the last time the Thunder have been this bad shooting free throws?
When is the last time that Perkins attempted more free throws and made more than Kevin Durant? And also made a higher percentage? The leagues best free throw team misses 5 in one quarter. Amazing.

It's called NERVES plain and simple.

[Canarsie]

I'll give my take on the game then you can pick me apart.

I thought it was horrendously officiated with the disadvantage going to OKC. Durant got called for two cheap fouls possibly one the ref was out of position and miscalled it. As far as the number of shots Miami was going to the rack more that's why there was a big difference.

I thought Westbrook played ok he did get a little out of control right before Brooks took him out. Kudos to the reporter from the Oklahoman who asked him why he did that. I was asking myself the same question when he did that not redboarding. The only scoring threat was Harden who was having a horrible game shooting wise. I know Fisher made a nice four but gave it right with a silly foul. Still he had six assists to Westbrooks four you live and die playing that way when the jumpers don't fall. Durant only took one more shot than Westbrook my opinion says the spread should be around ten. Then again I'm not the coach or have 10% of his smarts.

I thought Perkens played well especially early he brought them energy. Collison was a non factor he will have to pick it up. I don't know if it was the criticism or what but Westbrook had a wide open three and declined to shoot. If he thought that he was cold hats off to him for declining. But the three ball killed them going 4-18.

Both benches were really non factors that probably will change. Both sides will need their secondary players to pick up a little slack.

Miami outrebounded OKC don't have the stats but my hunch is they have a great winning percentage winning when that happens. OKC needs to box out better especially since Miami in sending to guys back to the defensive end after the shot.

Bosh didn't have a good game shooting wise but did the little things. Four offensive boards among his eleven along with a key block on Durant.

Miami still befuddles me especially on two points. They put James in the corner and immediately OKC went into a very well done double team trap. There were a few twenty four second violations due to their good defense. Miami reciprocated OKC had a bunch also. Why they try to use most of their clock time with hardly any movement is just plain dumb. They were lucky the shots weren't going in for OKC that's a certain formula for blowing a lead.

It wasn't a great game to watch offensively but it was hard nosed playoff basketball.

It will be interesting to see if OKC is more concerned with the Battier three ball opening up the lane for the Heat. They did a much better job in the second half making movement in the lane much harder.

On to game four I have enjoyed the series so far from a neutral view. Durant is an animal with the ball nobody is better. His defense wasn't great but with is work ethic I'm sure that will be a major priority during the off season.

Hats off for Joey Crawford not calling a technical on an OKC player ( I forgot who) and just giving a stern lecture. At this point of the season let most of that stuff go unless its egregious.

[maddog42]

Get ready for war tonight. No team has ever come back from being down 3-1 in
the 2-3-2 format. Tonights game is almost an elimination game for the Thunder.
If the the Thunder can win 4 straight from the Spurs, they can damn sure win
3 of 4 from the Heat.
Lets admit one thing though, the Heat are playing really well. A healthy Bosh added so much to their lineup. Last years loss to the Mavericks galvanized these guys.

[slew101]

I expect Miami to play its best game of the series tonight. OKC has been very good in these types of games, so a great game for them could do it. But I expect Miami to win tonight.

Miami lost last year's series with bad second-half play in both Games 4 and 5. They had 8 and 9-point leads and could have buried Dallas with a win. It'll be interesting to see if the Heat can finish strong tonight if they are in position to go up 3-1.

Get ready for war tonight. No team has ever come back from being down 3-1 in
the 2-3-2 format. Tonights game is almost an elimination game for the Thunder.
If the the Thunder can win 4 straight from the Spurs, they can damn sure win
3 of 4 from the Heat.
Lets admit one thing though, the Heat are playing really well. A healthy Bosh added so much to their lineup. Last years loss to the Mavericks galvanized these guys.

[ElKabong]

Westbrook =Leon Lett moment.

[slew101]

Tough way to end what was a brilliant game for Westbrook. Without him, Miami wins going away. He kept them in the game. Durant couldn't get enough shots, and Harden was awful.

Westbrook =Leon Lett moment.

[elysiantraveller]

Tough way to end what was a brilliant game for Westbrook. Without him, Miami wins going away. He kept them in the game. Durant couldn't get enough shots, and Harden was awful.

3 guys playing aggressive to the Thunder's 1.

[lansdale]

The officiating of these last two games especially was a bad joke. Westbrook took 35 shots in Game 5, roughly 2/3 of those taking it to the rack, and went to the line twice. The broadcast crew mentioned multiple times that he was being fouled on most of his drives, but as usual, the only close-ups came on those where he wan't. The non-calls against the Heat in the OKC paint were the biggest factor in the series. The NBA has decided that it's time for its marquee player to have a trophy. And BTW, I'm not an OKC fan - just someone who likes to see a game called fairly.

[cj]

The officiating of these last two games especially was a bad joke. Westbrook took 35 shots in Game 5, roughly 2/3 of those taking it to the rack, and went to the line twice. The broadcast crew mentioned multiple times that he was being fouled on most of his drives, but as usual, the only close-ups came on those where he wan't. The non-calls against the Heat in the OKC paint were the biggest factor in the series. The NBA has decided that it's time for its marquee player to have a trophy. And BTW, I'm not an OKC fan - just someone who likes to see a game called fairly.

I try not to blame refs, but this is ridiculous. The Heat get phantom calls left and right, all shooting fouls, and the Thunder get none. Westbrook was fouled at least 10 times, and that isn't an exaggeration. He shot 3 free throws. The Thunder have no shot when that happens.

I particularly liked when Durant cleanly blocked Wade and they called him for a foul, then changed it to Westbrook who was barely in the picture. It was like they said well we missed it, but lets at least not give it to Durant.

[lamboguy]

"and Chamberalin takes 3 steps and lays it it"

"Dave Lambier undressed him"

but

"Havlichek stole the ball"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu8Da3pe9h0&feature=youtube_gdata

[Canarsie]

I try not to blame refs, but this is ridiculous. The Heat get phantom calls left and right, all shooting fouls, and the Thunder get none.

I agree with you almost 100%. If these are the top graded refs in the NBA the worst would probably be dismissed from NCAA Division III.

Serling has been tweeting that Brooks should take a "T" protecting his team. At first I really didn't think that was necessary but he won me over last night. It may not have changed anything but Doc Rivers gets teed up arguing non calls on behalf of his players. At worst the refs would be more aware that the coach is pissed and aware of the disparity.

[cj]

I agree with you almost 100%. If these are the top graded refs in the NBA the worst would probably be dismissed from NCAA Division III.

Serling has been tweeting that Brooks should take a "T" protecting his team. At first I really didn't think that was necessary but he won me over last night. It may not have changed anything but Doc Rivers gets teed up arguing non calls on behalf of his players. At worst the refs would be more aware that the coach is pissed and aware of the disparity.

It is to the point now where he needs to blast them in a press conference and take the fine. He has to support his players, that is what coaches do.

I read Brooks turned down a 3 year, 11 million dollar extension. I'm not sure what he is thinking there.

[Canarsie]

It is to the point now where he needs to blast them in a press conference and take the fine. He has to support his players, that is what coaches do.

I read Brooks turned down a 3 year, 11 million dollar extension. I'm not sure what he is thinking there.

Too late now he had to do it after the game to get maximum exposure. It was a golden opportunity and he chose a different path.

I'll give him credit for not knocking the Westbrook foul some press guy who was on the sidelines said he heard the staff say it. I'm an honest guy didn't know the clock reset rule was to five seconds after a tie up that needs to be changed.

Read a bunch of articles on his new contract offer also and my hunch is his agent is telling him he's worth more. Another option is there was contact for another position though it would seem INSANE to leave OKC.

[ceejay]

From the very limited amount of basketball that I watch it seems like foul calls are based on a random number generator combined with the players star power. I am not a conspiracy theorist nor do I think that it is overt. Maybe, the game is just too fast to be correctly (by which I mean predictably and repeatable) officiated in real time.

[maddog42]

Too late now he had to do it after the game to get maximum exposure. It was a golden opportunity and he chose a different path.

I'll give him credit for not knocking the Westbrook foul some press guy who was on the sidelines said he heard the staff say it. I'm an honest guy didn't know the clock reset rule was to five seconds after a tie up that needs to be changed.

Read a bunch of articles on his new contract offer also and my hunch is his agent is telling him he's worth more. Another option is there was contact for another position though it would seem INSANE to leave OKC.

I like the rule. It rewards good defense. If you haven't noticed, I appreciate good defense almost as much as good offense.

I expect the Home team to get the calls. OKC got the benefit at home( but not by much). The Heat have gotten a huge number of calls to go their way. The National media is all over this. Westbrook probably go fouled at least 5 or 6 times with no call. Durant go hammered HARD several times with no call. Ridiculous!!

[Canarsie]

I like the rule. It rewards good defense. If you haven't noticed, I appreciate good defense almost as much as good offense.

I expect the Home team to get the calls. OKC got the benefit at home( but not by much). The Heat have gotten a huge number of calls to go their way. The National media is all over this. Westbrook probably go fouled at least 5 or 6 times with no call. Durant go hammered HARD several times with no call. Ridiculous!!


How is this a good rule when there was 0.8 left on the clock? How is great defense rewarded by giving the offense 4.2 more seconds to shoot?

The refs are another story I really don't know what their seeing. Even Harden's blocking foul was questionable to me but then again I always state let them play as long as it isn't egregious.

[maddog42]

How is this a good rule when there was 0.8 left on the clock? How is great defense rewarded by giving the offense 4.2 more seconds to shoot?

The refs are another story I really don't know what their seeing. Even Harden's blocking foul was questionable to me but then again I always state let them play as long as it isn't egregious.

Ok I thought you wanted to give more than 5 seconds. Didn't the old rule give the offense a new clock?

[cj]

What is the over/under on Westbrook free throws tonight, 3?

Seriously, that he only shot 3 free throws in G4 with all those drives (one of the two fouls called was on a jumper!) has to be one of the most mystifying things to ever happen in the history of NBA officiating.

[Canarsie]

Ok I thought you wanted to give more than 5 seconds. Didn't the old rule give the offense a new clock?



The rule was changed in 2003 even Wade stated yesterday he didn't know about it. Count me in as another who didn't have a clue at least I'm in good company. I always thought it was the original time left on the clock. That's what happens on a jump ball when its over five seconds.

2003-04
• The 24-second clock shall remain the same as when play was interrupted or reset to 5 seconds, whichever is greater, any time on jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense.


Pre 2003

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_7.html?nav=ArticleList

Section IV-Resetting 24-Second Clock
a. The 24-second clock shall be reset when a special situation occurs which warrants such action.

(6) Jump balls retained by the offensive team as the result of a held ball caused by the defense

[Canarsie]

What is the over/under on Westbrook free throws tonight, 3?

Seriously, that he only shot 3 free throws in G4 with all those drives (one of the two fouls called was on a jumper!) has to be one of the most mystifying things to ever happen in the history of NBA officiating.

I heard some interesting callers this morning and would like your opinion. One stated that Rondo was bitching about the Heat crying and getting calls which is pretty accurate. But another caller really had me thinking when he said "almost every team leader argues fouls and Durant doesn't". He then went on to state look at Duncan he constantly does it. I know it's not in Durant's character to do it but maybe there should be an exception tonight.

I would also hope he would give the pregame team speech instead of Fisher. A guy who has goose eggs for twenty two minutes should at least go to Durant and say "its your team they will follow and believe in you".

My two cents.

[cj]

I heard some interesting callers this morning and would like your opinion. One stated that Rondo was bitching about the Heat crying and getting calls which is pretty accurate. But another caller really had me thinking when he said "almost every team leader argues fouls and Durant doesn't". He then went on to state look at Duncan he constantly does it. I know it's not in Durant's character to do it but maybe there should be an exception tonight.

I would also hope he would give the pregame team speech instead of Fisher. A guy who has goose eggs for twenty two minutes should at least go to Durant and say "its your team they will follow and believe in you".

My two cents.

I totally agree. Durant is a great leader. He needs to give the speeches.

As for his demeanor, it is sad but true. Instead of being respected for not complaining, he is taken advantage of because the officials figure he is an easy mark. Westbrook doesn't bitch much either, but once he does, it is usually an explosion. He got plenty of techs during the season. I've honestly never seen a player get fouled as often as he does and basically get nothing but the most obvious calls. Hell, he didn't even get those on Tuesday. Those officials were a disgrace.

Some of it goes back to Brooks. He is constantly preaching not to worry about calls. That is great for the players, but I don't think he stands up for them. That is what great coaches do. They back their players. I'm sick of the Scott Brooks "Opie Taylor" act.

[lansdale]

What is the over/under on Westbrook free throws tonight, 3?

Seriously, that he only shot 3 free throws in G4 with all those drives (one of the two fouls called was on a jumper!) has to be one of the most mystifying things to ever happen in the history of NBA officiating.

CJ,

I mentioned this glaring discrepancy in one of my previous posts. As a stat guy, you can appreciate why this ratio of FTA to FT is the most out of whack I've seen in decades of watching this game. Aside from that, because of the Lebron/Heat narrative, nobody has commented on the fact that Westbrook's performance was one of the greatest ever in the Finals. How many people have ever scored more than 43 in a Finals game? Only seven:Wilt, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Rick Barry, Shaq, Allen Iverson, and Bob Pettit - pretty good company. To put it in perspective, if the whistle had blown for Westbrook on,say, eight of those 12-15 fouls, and he had hit them all (not unreasonable), he would have had 59 points, second only to Baylor's Finals record of 61. It was one of the most mind-blowing feats I've witnessed in the NBA since the reign of MJ - and Westbrook is only 23. Incredible.

[lansdale]

I totally agree. Durant is a great leader. He needs to give the speeches.

As for his demeanor, it is sad but true. Instead of being respected for not complaining, he is taken advantage of because the officials figure he is an easy mark. Westbrook doesn't bitch much either, but once he does, it is usually an explosion. He got plenty of techs during the season. I've honestly never seen a player get fouled as often as he does and basically get nothing but the most obvious calls. Hell, he didn't even get those on Tuesday. Those officials were a disgrace.

Some of it goes back to Brooks. He is constantly preaching not to worry about calls. That is great for the players, but I don't think he stands up for them. That is what great coaches do. They back their players. I'm sick of the Scott Brooks "Opie Taylor" act.

CJ,

Agree with the basic thought, but more than anyone else, I think it's the coach who needs to put the wood to the officials, even before the series begins - Phil Jackson was a master at this, and it was only one of a number of weapons in his arsenal of gamesmanship. It's good to be humble and loveable in real life, as Brooks and Durant are, but not while you're competing at the highest levels in any field of endeavor. But it's understandable to me that Durant is reluctant to take over as leader, with older players who have championship rings like Fisher, on the team.

That said, I think Brooks is making a huge mistake in giving Fisher more than very limited minutes at this point. He's just too old to play the game at this level of intensity any longer. And with Harden also screwing the pooch from the perimeter, OKC is without a genuine spot-up shooter with a quick enough release to beat Miami's close-out perimeter defenders. It's a dilemma.

Hope they can do it tonight and send the series back to OKC. They've already shown me and I think many fans that they are the better team.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

CJ,

I mentioned this glaring discrepancy in one of my previous posts. As a stat guy, you can appreciate why this ratio of FTA to FT is the most out of whack I've seen in decades of watching this game. Aside from that, because of the Lebron/Heat narrative, nobody has commented on the fact that Westbrook's performance was one of the greatest ever in the Finals. How many people have ever scored more than 43 in a Finals game? Only seven:Wilt, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Rick Barry, Shaq, Allen Iverson, and Bob Pettit - pretty good company. To put it in perspective, if the whistle had blown for Westbrook on,say, eight of those 12-15 fouls, and he had hit them all (not unreasonable), he would have had 59 points, second only to Baylor's Finals record of 61. It was one of the most mind-blowing feats I've witnessed in the NBA since the reign of MJ - and Westbrook is only 23. Incredible.

Above should read 'ratio of FGA to FT'.

[elysiantraveller]

The Thunder aren't getting calls because they aren't getting hit. Twice in game 4 Westbrook should have drawn a foul and didn't but it's not like that was the difference in the game. Like I said before if you aren't going to play aggressive you won't get calls.

That's been the Thunder's problem. Also, blowing a 17 point lead, fouling 3 point shooters on back to back possessions, getting out-rebounded, losing the battle in the paint, and players like Durant getting beat to tip balls by guys like Shane Battier.

That's why they have been losing.

[slew101]

Something I didn't see mentioned yet. The biggest play of Game 4 was Westbrook's turnover at 94-92 OKC at about the 3-minute mark. I think they had run off 7 straight at that point to take the lead. As he's heading up the floor I'm thinking if they get a hoop here, this is over. He then dribbled it off his foot, and the Heat scored next trip down.

I also thought those back-to-back fouls on 3-pointers were huge to give Miami some cheap points. Although Fisher did have a 4-pointer himself a minute earlier.

The Thunder aren't getting calls because they aren't getting hit. Twice in game 4 Westbrook should have drawn a foul and didn't but it's not like that was the difference in the game. Like I said before if you aren't going to play aggressive you won't get calls.

That's been the Thunder's problem. Also, blowing a 17 point lead, fouling 3 point shooters on back to back possessions, getting out-rebounded, losing the battle in the paint, and players like Durant getting beat to tip balls by guys like Shane Battier.

That's why they have been losing.

[mistergee]

in first 5 games fouls are 83 to 77, wish the media would stop with the excuses. the thunder is not using that excuse

[cj]

The Thunder aren't getting calls because they aren't getting hit. Twice in game 4 Westbrook should have drawn a foul and didn't but it's not like that was the difference in the game. Like I said before if you aren't going to play aggressive you won't get calls.

That's been the Thunder's problem. Also, blowing a 17 point lead, fouling 3 point shooters on back to back possessions, getting out-rebounded, losing the battle in the paint, and players like Durant getting beat to tip balls by guys like Shane Battier.

That's why they have been losing.

I'm not sure what to say if you don't think Westbrook was getting fouled. Even ESPN was commenting on it and showing the close ups. You didn't even need the close ups.

[cj]

Something I didn't see mentioned yet. The biggest play of Game 4 was Westbrook's turnover at 94-92 OKC at about the 3-minute mark. I think they had run off 7 straight at that point to take the lead. As he's heading up the floor I'm thinking if they get a hoop here, this is over. He then dribbled it off his foot, and the Heat scored next trip down.

I also thought those back-to-back fouls on 3-pointers were huge to give Miami some cheap points. Although Fisher did have a 4-pointer himself a minute earlier.

He dribbled it off his foot. Not much to say about it, the guy was incredible.

[elysiantraveller]

I'm not sure what to say if you don't think Westbrook was getting fouled. Even ESPN was commenting on it and showing the close ups. You didn't even need the close ups.

Well the Thunder are getting plenty of calls so far tonight. Like I said, he got a couple that weren't called.

The refs are not the difference in these games the Heat are the better team.

[ElKabong]

There's an old fashioned ass kicking going on right now. Men against boys

Add to it, the Thunder as a team is losing its poise. Amazing turn of events the past week.

[thaskalos]

Have we ever seen a team implode like this in a critical game of the NBA finals?

[ElKabong]

Not sure if I can name one...., but if I were a gamblin' man I wouldn't put a penny on this team on any futures bets. This is truly bizarre. A team that the local media (here) and Espn radio all but crowned as champs and a dynasty in the making after Game 1, looks like they're mentally weak & don't belong. This one leaves a mark

[dav4463]

I totally agree. Durant is a great leader. He needs to give the speeches.

As for his demeanor, it is sad but true. Instead of being respected for not complaining, he is taken advantage of because the officials figure he is an easy mark. Westbrook doesn't bitch much either, but once he does, it is usually an explosion. He got plenty of techs during the season. I've honestly never seen a player get fouled as often as he does and basically get nothing but the most obvious calls. Hell, he didn't even get those on Tuesday. Those officials were a disgrace.

Some of it goes back to Brooks. He is constantly preaching not to worry about calls. That is great for the players, but I don't think he stands up for them. That is what great coaches do. They back their players. I'm sick of the Scott Brooks "Opie Taylor" act.


Didn't Durant lead the league in free throws attempted? I think he gets his share of calls. Westbrook does get hit a lot but gets no respect.

[cj]

Didn't Durant lead the league in free throws attempted? I think he gets his share of calls. Westbrook does get hit a lot but gets no respect.

No, not even close. I think he did three years ago.

Thunder got whipped tonight. They need a few changes in the skills of the role players, and I think they will win it next year. It was a fun ride, and they took it a step further this year.

[cj]

Have we ever seen a team implode like this in a critical game of the NBA finals?

The Heat played great tonight. The role players drained three after three. It was hardly an implosion.

[cj]

Not sure if I can name one...., but if I were a gamblin' man I wouldn't put a penny on this team on any futures bets. This is truly bizarre. A team that the local media (here) and Espn radio all but crowned as champs and a dynasty in the making after Game 1, looks like they're mentally weak & don't belong. This one leaves a mark


You should stick to baseball. Your basketball knowledge is sorely lacking. I suspect you know that and are just trolling.

[pktruckdriver]

No, not even close. I think he did three years ago.

Thunder got whipped tonight. They need a few changes in the skills of the role players, and I think they will win it next year. It was a fun ride, and they took it a step further this year.

Agree, they are so young, they will be back and be around for a long time.

Patrick

[ElKabong]

You should stick to baseball. Your basketball knowledge is sorely lacking. I suspect you know that and are just trolling.

Sore loser? Or just joking?

We're all entitled to our opinion here. I've got mine, you've seen it.

[thaskalos]

The Heat played great tonight. The role players drained three after three. It was hardly an implosion.

I would agree with you...but I saw a lot of terrible-looking threes thrown up by the Thunder in the third quarter.

I don't remember ever seeing a finals game get out of hand so quickly...

[cj]

I would agree with you...but I saw a lot of terrible-looking threes thrown up by the Thunder in the third quarter.

I don't remember ever seeing a finals game get out of hand so quickly...

They were down a bunch and time was running out. They might have panicked a hair early, but they are young and on the road. They will learn and move on as they have at every setback so far.

[cj]

Sore loser? Or just joking?

We're all entitled to our opinion here. I've got mine, you've seen it.

Of course you are. Should I pull up your Spurs posts? You admitted you were uninformed, but hey, don't let that stop you.

[ElKabong]

Not informed about tonight's game, that's for sure. Or on their mental meltdown. Like Thask said, it got out of hand quick once the tide turned.

What's puzzling is, Okc needed to be 100% mentally into tonight from beginning to end. No excuses. Win tonight & they go back home to the home cooking for the remainder of the series. They had a decent shot imo....They just checked out. When I saw Durant bow up on (chamlers?) that surprised me. Usually he brushes that stuff off in the mavs games I've seen him play in this, and last yr.

No excuse for it. It's game 5 of the Finals, with momentum at stake. I'm surprised it shook out like this, but Miami sure looked like they wanted it more

[Robert Goren]

OKC is very young team and tonight they played like it. I would be shocked if they didn't win a championship sometime. The Heat are a team with its stars in their prime while OKC's stars are just coming into their own.
James in this series has looked like a HS senior playing against a bunch of 7th graders. He seemed a lot bigger and faster than anyone on OKC. There is no doubt that he is the best player in the NBA right now. On to next year.

[maddog42]

Not sure if I can name one...., but if I were a gamblin' man I wouldn't put a penny on this team on any futures bets. This is truly bizarre. A team that the local media (here) and Espn radio all but crowned as champs and a dynasty in the making after Game 1, looks like they're mentally weak & don't belong. This one leaves a mark

They said EXACTLY the same things about the Heat last year. They pretty much
gave them the title last year against Dallas, but whoops thats why they play them. Remember all the bad things they said about Lebron? All the character flaws that the Heat had? The heat didn't even make it to game 7. One year can make a huge difference.

[slew101]

What about your LeBrick posts? Or does that not count?

Of course you are. Should I pull up your Spurs posts? You admitted you were uninformed, but hey, don't let that stop you.

[maddog42]

OKC is very young team and tonight they played like it. I would be shocked if they didn't win a championship sometime. The Heat are a team with its stars in their prime while OKC's stars are just coming into their own.
James in this series has looked like a HS senior playing against a bunch of 7th graders. He seemed a lot bigger and faster than anyone on OKC. There is no doubt that he is the best player in the NBA right now. On to next year.

I agree with all of this except that Westbrook is the fastest basketball player I have ever seen.

[maddog42]

Agree, they are so young, they will be back and be around for a long time.

Patrick
The big 3 are 22, 22 and 23. One commentator said there has never been a team in the History of the NBA with 3 star players this young and this talented in the Finals. This may be a slight exaggeration, but I can't think of one.

[maddog42]

Congrats to the Heat. They were the better team.

[Robert Goren]

I agree with all of this except that Westbrook is the fastest basketball player I have ever seen. He is very fast and has an amazing ability to get to the basket untouched. He is "off and on" a lot. He should get better with age.

[Robert Goren]

The big 3 are 22, 22 and 23. One commentator said there has never been a team in the History of the NBA with 3 star players this young and this talented in the Finals. This may be a slight exaggeration, but I can't think of one.I don't think OKC has a big 3. Harden isn't that kind of player yet. He may be one some day, but he has a long way to go before I'd put out there as star player like the other 5 big stars in in the finals.

[maddog42]

I don't think OKC has a big 3. Harden isn't that kind of player yet. He may be one some day, but he has a long way to go before I'd put out there as star player like the other 5 big stars in in the finals.

He was given the 6th Man Award this year. I think this qualifies him as a "big 3".
Bosh had an inferior year to Harden, but certainly played much better in the playoffs. I really should say a bad finals. Harden played pretty good through most of the playoffs.

[elysiantraveller]

I saw this series as each of the Heats 3 best were better than their OKC counterparts. Plus some of the pieces like Perkins/Ibaka don't really fit in this matchup. Add the fact that the Heat are a much better team defensively than anything in the West and I went with the Heat in 6.

Thunder have absolutely nothing to be upset about, they are in a position to rule the west, and turn this into a fantastic rivalry.

[cj]

What about your LeBrick posts? Or does that not count?
I've always said James is the best player in the NBA. I thought Durant was getting there, but he hasn't yet.

Still, James isn't a good shooter. He was, however,.smart enough to stop shooting jumpers.

[PhantomOnTour]

I'm no fan of LeBron, and i was pulling for OKC, but he's such a good player that his time was gonna come sooner or later.
Congrats to him and the Heat.

[maddog42]

I saw this series as each of the Heats 3 best were better than their OKC counterparts. Plus some of the pieces like Perkins/Ibaka don't really fit in this matchup. Add the fact that the Heat are a much better team defensively than anything in the West and I went with the Heat in 6.

Thunder have absolutely nothing to be upset about, they are in a position to rule the west, and turn this into a fantastic rivalry.
James outplayed Durant. Bosh certainly outplayed Harden by a wide margin. Wade got outplayed badly by Westbrook in game 4. I would give Wade a very slight nod because he played better in maybe 2 games, with 2 games being a draw. Very, very close. The 43 points by Westbrook is being talked about as one of the greatest in NBA Finals history. The handfull of players with this type of game are mostly in the HOF.

[Canarsie]

Congrats to the Heat for winning the 2012 championship. This was the last game of an incredible season I'm going to miss basketball a lot. The compressed schedule made for great television almost every night though it was unfair to the players. Maybe there's a medium where they can start the season later but not make it so taxing.

I thought that Durant and Fisher were the only ones who had real intensity for OKC tonight. It was sad to see Durant crying going into the locker room but it shows how bad he wanted it. Thought it was classy of the owner to give his players hugs as they came into the room.

My assessment of Harden doesn't make me too smart right now he has a year to turn it around. If he doesn't it certainly will cost him big bucks but he has the skills to make adjustments.

Westbrook still hasn't convinced me he's a max player one great game doesn't cut it. He would be better served playing the two but Presti is a smarter guy than me. Kidd is close to being done but if they keep Westbrook at the point he would be a great teacher at a cheap price.

Ibaka could take LBJ's lead and train with Olajuwon and develop some moves in the post. If he isn't going to shoot much the opponents defense can roam around with help defense. Bosh was very productive and hardly anyone noticed.

Having said all of this OKC will probably be making return runs to the finals. The only thing that would stop them is if opponents try to mimic (its a copycat league) the Heat's double teaming even outside the three point line and are successful.


I'm glad for Mike Miller as one with a bad back felt his pain. He now gets to show his grand kids down the road how he contributed to the championship.

It was classy of LBJ to tell Chalmers to cut it out with nine minutes left in the game. When Wade stated he was the leader of the team that was a great way to show it.

[cj]

Congrats to the Heat for winning the 2012 championship. This was the last game of an incredible season I'm going to miss basketball a lot. The compressed schedule made for great television almost every night though it was unfair to the players. Maybe there's a medium where they can start the season later but not make it so taxing.

I thought that Durant and Fisher were the only ones who had real intensity for OKC tonight. It was sad to see Durant crying going into the locker room but it shows how bad he wanted it. Thought it was classy of the owner to give his players hugs as they came into the room.

My assessment of Harden doesn't make me too smart right now he has a year to turn it around. If he doesn't it certainly will cost him big bucks but he has the skills to make adjustments.

Westbrook still hasn't convinced me he's a max player one great game doesn't cut it. He would be better served playing the two but Presti is a smarter guy than me. Kidd is close to being done but if they keep Westbrook at the point he would be a great teacher at a cheap price.

Ibaka could take LBJ's lead and train with Olajuwon and develop some moves in the post. If he isn't going to shoot much the opponents defense can roam around with help defense. Bosh was very productive and hardly anyone noticed.

Having said all of this OKC will probably be making return runs to the finals. The only thing that would stop them is if opponents try to mimic (its a copycat league) the Heat's double teaming even outside the three point line and are successful.


I'm glad for Mike Miller as one with a bad back felt his pain. He now gets to show his grand kids down the road how he contributed to the championship.

It was classy of LBJ to tell Chalmers to cut it out with nine minutes left in the game. When Wade stated he was the leader of the team that was a great way to show it.

I agree with most of what you say, but not about Westbrook. First off, he didn't take max money, he took a little below. But more importantly, he is a tremendous talent. He is often times the victim of the Thunder lineup. The team has too many guys that are woeful on the offensive end of the floor, and being the point guard, he is the one stuck with the ball.

Teams know they have to deny Durant, and that leaves Thabo, Perkins, Ibaka, Fisher, Collison, and in this case an ineffective Harden as the options. Westbrook knows this, so he can either go faster and try to catch the other team off guard, or watch the shot clock dwindle and have those as his options. No point guard in history is going to rack up assists with that group waiting for passes.

This series showed me one thing. The Thunder need better role players that can shoot the basketball. The Heat role players took a lot of flack, but they made shots and that was the difference in the series. If they didn't Lebron would not have had the numbers he did.

Good teams can stop two players. I'm not giving up on Harden by any stretch. Had he played like he did in prior series, we'd at least have G6 and probably G7. But he didn't, and the Heat were too good defensively to get beaten by two stars and nothing else.

[Canarsie]

I agree with most of what you say, but not about Westbrook. First off, he didn't take max money, he took a little below. But more importantly, he is a tremendous talent. He is often times the victim of the Thunder lineup. The team has too many guys that are woeful on the offensive end of the floor, and being the point guard, he is the one stuck with the ball.

I never said he wasn't a talent defended him while others were doing the knocking. Just don't believe he's near a max player at the position he plays. If he was at the two it might be a different story.

One thing I believe in is when a player is hot ride him all game. When he is shooting well I really don't care about shot distribution. But there are many days when you are just not "feeling" it and those times it pays to pass the ball and take your chances. He heads to the rim on missed shots and is excellent at it that's a huge positive.

Kidd has already said he would accept the backup role wonder if they are going to make him an offer.

Report: Kendrick Perkins played through torn groin muscle in playoffs


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19403061/report-kendrick-perkins-played-through-torn-groin-muscle-in-playoffs

[cj]

I never said he wasn't a talent defended him while others were doing the knocking. Just don't believe he's near a max player at the position he plays. If he was at the two it might be a different story.

One thing I believe in is when a player is hot ride him all game. When he is shooting well I really don't care about shot distribution. But there are many days when you are just not "feeling" it and those times it pays to pass the ball and take your chances. He heads to the rim on missed shots and is excellent at it that's a huge positive.

Kidd has already said he would accept the backup role wonder if they are going to make him an offer.

Report: Kendrick Perkins played through torn groin muscle in playoffs


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19403061/report-kendrick-perkins-played-through-torn-groin-muscle-in-playoffs

If he were a 2, he'd still need to handle the ball often or it would kill his biggest strength, his speed and athleticism. He can play point guard very well when other guys are making shots. I've seen him do it often.

[Canarsie]

If he were a 2, he'd still need to handle the ball often or it would kill his biggest strength, his speed and athleticism. He can play point guard very well when other guys are making shots. I've seen him do it often.

You see him far more then me and I value your judgement of his abilities.

But at least to me he has vastly under performed on the bigger and biggest stage the last two years. Harden can be thrown into that group this year it doesn't mean they aren't very good players.

Clyde Frazier said something that I didn't see in the series but he sees more things than me for sure. He stated that there were numerous times that both Westbrook and Durant were open quite a few times and they didn't pass the ball to each other. Here's a link to the podcast Clyde is always a great listen and objective to boot.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/radio/archive?id=2693958

Sam Mitchell said something yesterday that allows one to think why OKC lost. Potentially the Heat have three players who might get inducted into the Hall of Fame. At this point OKC only has one and it will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.

What do you think of the idea having Durant bulking up a little helping him on the defensive end? Or would that be too dangerous an idea that would affect his shooting skills which are the best in the NBA bar none.

[cj]

You see him far more then me and I value your judgement of his abilities.

But at least to me he has vastly under performed on the bigger and biggest stage the last two years. Harden can be thrown into that group this year it doesn't mean they aren't very good players.

Clyde Frazier said something that I didn't see in the series but he sees more things than me for sure. He stated that there were numerous times that both Westbrook and Durant were open quite a few times and they didn't pass the ball to each other. Here's a link to the podcast Clyde is always a great listen and objective to boot.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/radio/archive?id=2693958

Sam Mitchell said something yesterday that allows one to think why OKC lost. Potentially the Heat have three players who might get inducted into the Hall of Fame. At this point OKC only has one and it will probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.

What do you think of the idea having Durant bulking up a little helping him on the defensive end? Or would that be too dangerous an idea that would affect his shooting skills which are the best in the NBA bar none.

I don't have a lot of time now for all of this, but I'll address the Hall of Fame part now. If Bosh is a Hall of Famer, Westbrook is a lock for the same.