Mark Shuman answers Beyer

[karlskorner]

www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=52448&subs=0&arc=1

Do you agree with Mark Shuman ?

[Whitehos]

Shore do,

Because I made money on him last year at Gulfstream. Now I can't bet the track.

[howardjim]

The presence of enhancement drugs is obvious,to what extent and by whom is always open to question.The implications of the Gill/Shuman operation look suspicious at best.Mr.Shuman's adolescent rants do nothing for his credibility.

[GameTheory]

What about Beyer's adolescent rants?

[howardjim]

He appeals to my "inner child".

[Niko]

I think Beyer is great for the game and has done a lot to promote it BUT, does he have any facts to support his claims?, has he ever trained a horse to know how they can be improved. Without the evidence it becomes an editorial and in my opinion, irresponsible journalism.
The majority of Gill/Shuman horses ran numbers after the claim that were similar to numbers before the claim in the horse past (for the races I studied last year at Gulfstream, someone else posted some results on this board). I saw a lot less major jump ups from Gill/Shuman than I did from Lake and a few others. One reason I stay away from Laurel.
Gill makes the game tough sometimes but it'd be great if we had a few more buyers like him to fill the fields!
I like Shuman's response and would like to hear his reasons as to why their horses improved.
If Beyer were betting football he'd complain about all the "fixes" in football this year when there was a big upset. Not saying there's not drugs in racing but I don't think they're doing much different than other trainers.

[PaceAdvantage]

I have to say I find myself agreeing with a lot that Shuman has to say. He has every right to rant.....Gill does deserve the Eclipse....what am I missing?

[alysheba88]

Barry Bonds is a cheater and steroid user and so is Gill.

Schuman bringing up Pat Val was completely classless.

Impossible to compare the two situations. Who did Pat Val hurt the most besides himself and family? While these cheating trainers juice up broken down horses trying to steal a purse at the bettors expense.

Was also out of line on his degenerate bettor comment. Just another trainer with nothing but disdain for bettors.

[PaceAdvantage]

"Who did PVal hurt" you ask? He most certainly hurt the bettors if his substance abuse led to sub-optimal rides. Lets say he's hung over or craving a fix right before a leg up in the 1st at Hollywood one afternoon. You don't think he is gonna screw up in this sort of situation? You don't think he cost the bettors more than a few dollars when he was using? You think he cared about the bettors back then? You think he cares about them now that he is (presumably) clean? I doubt it....

[kenwoodallpromos]

He doesn't like writers! So?! Shulman and Gill already said they give myectomys to their claimers. Other trainers are too cheap to do so! There is info on myectomys online. Cheap trainer will not change shoes either! / I read the racing industry hates Gill becase he claims so many and does like to breed or buy expensive yearlings who do not pan out, so he does not waste millions supporting breeders! So? I think that is smart! The industry hates Funny Cide's connections too! They do not want cheap horses winning big races!

[alysheba88]

PA,

Those are fair comments about Pat Val. Except for the "presumably". Is that inneundo? Most of the So Cal bettors I know of love the guy. One of the greatest riders to ever get on a horse. I dont this his past problems should be held against him.

As for Shuman/Gill I don't think its the past that people are worried about its the current. And I dont think it has anything to do with him being a "claiming owner".

[PaceAdvantage]

No, not innuendo at all. I presume that he is clean. I have no absolutely proof that he is clean at this very moment, I can only take his word for it, and the fact that he hasn't tested positive for anything.

He was a habitual offender in the past, so one must always have some doubt in one's mind about the future.

I think he is one of racing's best stories of 2003, and I have always been a fan of his (he rode one of my favorite horses of all time, Sunday Silence).

I am not holding anything against him, but I do think you have to be honest with yourself and say that when he was using, it had to affect (at least on some level) his riding abilities, and therefore this must affect the wagering public.

[Tom]

...not only do the bettors suffer, but every other rider on the track with a hop-head jock is at risk of live and limb.
Why should anyone believe anything P Val has to say?
He should face mandatory drug tests, at his expense, every single day he rides. The old idea of innocent until proven guilty has long since been passed by-now it's time to prove your innocence.

[karlskorner]

Always was and always will be a "good ole boys game"

http://drf.com/news/article/52606.html

People like Stronach and Gill who are willing to put their money into the industry will get clobbered day and night.

[Figman]

Could it be that the Gill/Shuman team is upset with Beyer because The Washington Post published this article about their medication troubles.... all in 2003.
http://tinyurl.com/yqyue

[Fastracehorse]

Valenzuela is a drug addict. May he have the strength to beat the disease. Yes disease. And may you be lucky enough never to be afflicted with it.

Believe it or not, recovery is so difficult psychologically, that his feat of staying clean is as impressive as his wire to wire victories.

Gill ruined last year's Gulfstream meet. He flooded cards with double-dropping claimers just to get wins. That meant alot of short prices - more than usual. It also meant Gill took financial losses just to get a win.

In essence, Gill's operation makes no sense. It is not economically efficient. He is too big for the game. I really don't respect methods that in all practicality, mean that Gill bought the Eclipse award.

Methods that ruined an entire meet and also that involved suspect training practices. Do you people remember the missing leg?? Did you know at one point at the Monmouth meet earlier this year: 4 horses had broken down, 3 were Gill's??

It means nothing to me his Eclipse award - because it didn't make sense and it was bought. Englander runs a business and is good for racing.

fffastt

[Fastracehorse]

<There is no positive for the steroid," Shuman said. "They only have a billing record."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

fffastt :confused: :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool: :p ;)

[Tuffmug]

Go Mark Go!!! Gill/Shuman are great. Need more aggressive owner/trainer combos out there. They help keep the game honest. They take the risks and aren't afraid to lose a horse by placing him properly. They deserve the Award!

Claiming Races is HORSES FOR SALE! Why all the crying when somebody BUY"S THEM!

Drug talk is just that-TALK. No proof. Just throwing shit!! Beyer just throwing shit.

Suspect the most abuse coming from dishonest Day Rate Trainer types who screw over their owners by misplacing horses so they won't win, won't be claimed, and won't lose their day rate meal tickets.

[Tom]

Love your entourage! :D