Security barn at Belmont - overkill?

[horses4courses]

All kinds of stories being tweeted about various security regulations at the detention barn in Belmont Park.

Referred to as "Little Alcatraz" by some, rules include only 4 visitors per horse at any one time.
Mario Gutierrez was not allowed in to IHA's area due to "overcrowding" at one point.

Restrictions on feed became an issue for both Union Rags and IHA.
Their diets include cooked oats which, apparently, reduce the risk of colic.
The cooked oats were eventually allowed.

Trainers Matz and Lukas have, also, been critical of the detention barn set up. Seems like the whole thing is a circus.
Nobody appears in favor of it, least of all the horses, who are creatures of habit.
Is this process really protecting the public?

[Saratoga_Mike]

All kinds of stories being tweeted about various security regulations at the detention barn in Belmont Park.

Referred to as "Little Alcatraz" by some, rules include only 4 visitors per horse at any one time.
Mario Gutierrez was not allowed in to IHA's area due to "overcrowding" at one point.

Restrictions on feed became an issue for both Union Rags and IHA.
Their diets include cooked oats which, apparently, reduce the risk of colic.
The cooked oats were eventually allowed.

Trainers Matz and Lukas have, also, been critical of the detention barn set up. Seems like the whole thing is a circus.
Nobody appears in favor of it, least of all the horses, who are creatures of habit.
Is this process really protecting the public?

Absolutely. There's no downside except the horsemen are somewhat inconvenienced for a few days.

[Tom]

I disagree - it can be a negative interruption to some horses.
Lava Man will not stay there because he doesn't handle that type of change too well. It could affect other horses as well.

Having to "allow" cooked oats is just stupid - why were they outlawed to begin with?

This is just a sample of the nonsense the state will bring to the game.
It is knee jerk, it is unneeded, and it begs the question...why not ALL the race everyday? Do we only care about the integrity of the one race? We run a clean Belmont and fix the other 12 races on the card???

I was not rooting for O'Neil at first, but now I will be rooting for him to win, just to spite the NYS morons. If IHA loses, that is all we will hear for then 34 years - he couldn't win under scrutiny.

[FantasticDan]

DRF article from this morning:

http://www.drf.com/news/belmont-stakes-2012-security-barn-irks-trainers

[Saratoga_Mike]

I disagree - it can be a negative interruption to some horses.
Lava Man will not stay there because he doesn't handle that type of change too well. It could affect other horses as well.

Having to "allow" cooked oats is just stupid - why were they outlawed to begin with?

This is just a sample of the nonsense the state will bring to the game.
It is knee jerk, it is unneeded, and it begs the question...why not ALL the race everyday? Do we only care about the integrity of the one race? We run a clean Belmont and fix the other 12 races on the card???

I was not rooting for O'Neil at first, but now I will be rooting for him to win, just to spite the NYS morons. If IHA loses, that is all we will hear for then 34 years - he couldn't win under scrutiny.

O'neill wanted the security barn open earlier, so IHA could acclimate better. That seemed like a reasonable request. It isn't "cooked oats" they worried about. It's cooked oats dosed with you name the drug (I dont think that was the case here, but it could be an issue). Overall, I support strong security protocols....if it could be extended to everyday of the yr, that would be great.

[tucker6]

I disagree - it can be a negative interruption to some horses.
Lava Man will not stay there because he doesn't handle that type of change too well. It could affect other horses as well.

I think Lava Man will be IHA's drug runner when no one is watching. No one would ever think another horse would stoop to such a fiendish level. Alas, all you need is for Lava Man to bring the drug into the barn via mouth, and as he takes a drink from the bucket, deposits said drug into water. IHA then moseys on over and when no one is looking dips his head for a little shake and bake. :D

[DJofSD]

Horses are creatures of habit. Change something in their routine or environment, they'll notice it. How they react to the change varies.

Having said that, my guess is any upset being seen by the horses now in the detention barn is likely being triggered by the human connections.

[Tom]

I think Lava Man will be IHA's drug runner when no one is watching. No one would ever think another horse would stoop to such a fiendish level. Alas, all you need is for Lava Man to bring the drug into the barn via mouth, and as he takes a drink from the bucket, deposits said drug into water. IHA then moseys on over and when no one is looking dips his head for a little shake and bake. :D

Now that is funny!:lol:

[forced89]

Insanity !!

[sovereign]

DRFPrivman Bob Fortus of New Orleans Times-Picayune with line of the day: the horses are organizing a football game against the guards. #thelongestyard

[Greyfox]

Of course Detention barns aren't ideal for horses.
But trainers can only blame themselves for their presence.
A history of corruption in the regular barns when large purses were on the line led to the installment of these facilities.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Of course Detention barns aren't ideal for horses.
But trainers can only blame themselves for their presence.
A history of corruption in the regular barns when large purses were on the line led to the installment of these facilities.

If the horse isn't based at Belmont, any stall is going to be new to the horse. The only thing that should have been changed was making the detention barn available a little earlier in the week, as O'Neil pointed out.

As for overkill, you can't have it both ways (i.e., drugs are ruining the sport, but a detention barn with strict protocols is too much). If you think stricter standards should be applied to everyday racing, I agree.

[PhantomOnTour]

I am a big supporter of the NYRA and NY racing, but this is the very definition of overkill.

O'neill is in the catbird seat and he should have made demands of his own.
We know the NYRA will bend...look at the union situation.

[nijinski]

As I've said before , doubt anyone in the Belmont Stakes this year was going to try to cheat . Everyone is aware the guard dogs are sniffing . It's overkill .

Good that they spoke up and threatened to leave over the Oats.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I am a big supporter of the NYRA and NY racing, but this is the very definition of overkill.

O'neill is in the catbird seat and he should have made demands of his own.We know the NYRA will bend...look at the union situation.

Why? If the horses were allowed in the detention barn a few days earlier, why is it an issue at all?

I can't believe people are complaining about this. I think horseplayers just like to complain.

Like he was going to skip the race? No chance of that. NYRA held all the cards.

[tucker6]

Why? If the horses were allowed in the detention barn a few days earlier, why is it an issue at all?

I can't believe people are complaining about this. I think horseplayers just like to complain.

Like he was going to skip the race? No chance of that. NYRA held all the cards.
disagree somewhat. The oats thing could have blown up in NYRA's face as a horse safety issue by o'neill and others. NYRA would then have been playing defense the rest of the way.

[DJofSD]

Just from the perspective of the public image, the detetion barn is a good idea. Sure, you can say it is a sham, but at least this is one part of the show the NYRA can control. And they've taken the initiative to do so. Regardless of the NYRA's motivation I can't help but think the unstated message will come across as one of protecting the wagering public's interest.

[PhantomOnTour]

Why? If the horses were allowed in the detention barn a few days earlier, why is it an issue at all?

I can't believe people are complaining about this. I think horseplayers just like to complain.
Like he was going to skip the race? No chance of that. NYRA held all the cards.
Some whine all the time.....not me.
I bet almost exclusively on NY racing (over 95% of my bets) and support them when i think they are unnecessarily being ragged on, but i don't like what they're doing here.
What about not allowing O'neill to cook the oats for IHA?
What's sane and sensible about that?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Some whine all the time.....not me.
I bet almost exclusively on NY racing (over 95% of my bets) and support them when i think they are unnecessarily being ragged on, but i don't like what they're doing here.
What about not allowing O'neill to cook the oats for IHA?
What's sane and sensible about that?

Given his record, I wouldn't let him do that either. I'll let Graham Motion cook oats!

And I'm glad you aren't a whiner, but you know where I'm coming from

[Saratoga_Mike]

disagree somewhat. The oats thing could have blown up in NYRA's face as a horse safety issue by o'neill and others. NYRA would then have been playing defense the rest of the way.

I'd like to be on the other side of that one...i.e., O'Neil making a horse safety argument.

[PhantomOnTour]

Given his record, I wouldn't let him do that either. I'll let Graham Motion cook oats!

And I'm glad you aren't a whiner, but you know where I'm coming from
Let's compromise and let Graham Motion cook the oats for IHA...cool?
:D

[FenceBored]

Just a reminder, as some folks are saying this detention barn is NYRA's idea. It's not. It was imposed on NYRA by the NY State Racing and Wagering Board, on May 30th. The New York State Racing and Wagering Board has issued a set of protocols for horses running in the Belmont Stakes (gr. I) June 9, the most notable one being the use of a “stakes” barn, to which all Belmont starters must go beginning June 6.
Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/70172/stakes-barn-to-be-used-for-belmont-horses#ixzz1x8UNxwEW


It's only natural that there would be hiccups in implementing a new policy that was only dreamed up a week before the horses had to all be in this barn. Which is why smart people don't spring stuff like this right before major events.

[DJofSD]

Good - thanks for the clarification. It's an important distinction to make.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Good point on the NYRA/NYWRB distinction.

[nijinski]

Funny , the the chairman of the board once refused a breathalyzer test . I guess it shouldn't bother me, but it does . I always thought he should not have been appointed to this job.

[5k-claim]

Yes.

As a matter of fact, if there exists video footage of lower level security phoning mid-level security who, in turn, checked with higher level security to ask it is was alright for oats to be cooked... well, you could place that footage right next to the word "overkill" on online dictionary sites.

This absolutely has the chance to have a negative impact on some of the horses. To varying degrees, and to some none at all. But it could be there.

As Lukas pointed out: “If a horse next to you is raising hell, what can you do?” said Lukas, who has Optimizer in the Belmont. “They could have put a security guard in front of every horse at his own stall and accomplished the same thing. It’s all perception. It’s not an ideal situation for a security barn.

“What happens if a horse gets stirred up in there for two or three days? A guy is betting his money believing a horse will run like he did in the past out of his own barn, so how is that protecting the public?”

.

[Saratoga_Mike]

As Lukas pointed out: “If a horse next to you is raising hell, what can you do?” said Lukas, who has Optimizer in the Belmont. “They could have put a security guard in front of every horse at his own stall and accomplished the same thing. It’s all perception. It’s not an ideal situation for a security barn.

“What happens if a horse gets stirred up in there for two or three days? A guy is betting his money believing a horse will run like he did in the past out of his own barn, so how is that protecting the public?”

.

If a horse isn't stabled at Belmont, then any stall at Belmont will be new to him. What if gets stirred up in THERE?

O'Neil rightly pointed out that the detention barn should have been made available eariler in the week, allowing horses to fully acclimate. Everything else here is just something to complain about.

[5k-claim]

If a horse isn't stabled at Belmont, then any stall at Belmont will be new to him. What if gets stirred up in THERE?

O'Neil rightly pointed out that the detention barn should have been made available eariler in the week, allowing horses to fully acclimate. Everything else here is just something to complain about.You are wrong, Saratoga Mike.

The overall environment is what is being complained about, and what can be disruptive to the horses. It is not just a "matter of time."

Even for the shippers, do you really believe that any barn and stall environment that a horse could ship to is the same as any other barn and stall environment? I guess so... as that would explain your first sentence.

.

[Saratoga_Mike]

You are wrong, Saratoga Mike.

The overall environment is what is being complained about, and what can be disruptive to the horses. It is not just a "matter of time."

Even for the shippers, do you really believe that any barn and stall environment that a horse could ship to is the same as any other barn and stall environment? I guess so... as that would explain your first sentence.

.

I've been to the stakes barn at Pimilco on several occassions. I can't imagine the Belmont situation will be much different. I also raised horses growing up, so I actually know something about horses.

[5k-claim]

I've been to the stakes barn at Pimilco on several occassions. I can't imagine the Belmont situation will be much different. I also raised horses growing up, so I actually know something about horses.Well, that certainly explains your comments.

.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Well, that certainly explains your comments.

.

Yeah, that I actually know what I'm talking about. Thanks.

[Tom]

This is all show and no blow.
It protects no one from anything.
As I said, what about the other races on the card?

Who protects us from the boogie-man in those races?
The message this sends out is racing is crooked and no one cares, unless it is big race.

That is nonsense.

[nijinski]

This is all show and no blow.
It protects no one from anything.
As I said, what about the other races on the card?

Who protects us from the boogie-man in those races?
The message this sends out is racing is crooked and no one cares, unless it is big race.

That is nonsense.

Very important point Tom.

[iceknight]

Given his record, I wouldn't let him do that either. I'll let Graham Motion cook oats!
from If the horse can tweet (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/70402/belmont-they-said-it?source=rss) , he can also cook oats for himself. Just give them a microwave, bowl and water. No need to bother other trainers! :lol:

ps: Also wanted to add how superbly popular the TC Trophy page seems to be on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Triple-Crown-Trophy/132195543482235) !

[PaceAdvantage]

Well well...since all this is being done JUST FOR the Belmont Stakes, doesn't that mean whoever wins it should have an ASTERISK next to their name? :lol: :lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

potential:*nasal strip off

[Saratoga_Mike]

This is all show and no blow.
It protects no one from anything.
As I said, what about the other races on the card?

Who protects us from the boogie-man in those races?
The message this sends out is racing is crooked and no one cares, unless it is big race.

That is nonsense.

Would you do anything differently for the Belmont? I concede your point that there should be much tougher rules for every race - I don't know who would disagree with that.

[KingChas]

"O’Neill, who has outwardly maintained an even keel over all the hoops he has been required to jump through leading up to this race – no nasal strip for his horse, moving to the security barn, exhaustive requirements for licensing for his personnel – finally had enough and threatened to pull his horse from the race, pointing out that I’ll Have Another needs his oats cooked to avoid colic."

NY Racing people (To whom it may concern) keep playing with fire they will eventually get burned.

Of course they could use the racing grounds for more Mall's of America..and Casino's........someday.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yeah, he's going to pull his horse from the race. Unless injured, that's laughable.

[KingChas]

Yeah, he's going to pull his horse from the race. Unless injured, that's laughable.

If this race was held in California and Donald Trump owned the horse this would have been done already............... :lol:

[Grits]

Yeah, he's going to pull his horse from the race. Unless injured, that's laughable.
His quote isn't nearly as laughable as the crap that the NYSRWB keeps piling on. The horsemen/owners can bring this whole deal to a screeching halt. And I wouldn't blame them.

Their whole three ring circus show has gotten tiring as sin.

[Saratoga_Mike]

His quote isn't nearly as laughable as the crap that the NYSRWB keeps piling on. The horsemen/owners can bring this whole deal to a screeching halt. And I wouldn't blame them.

Their whole three ring circus show has gotten tiring as sin.

Hell will freeze over before they pull IHA from the race (assuming he's sound).

How is it a three-ring circus? Are there bands playing outside the detention barn? Is there yelling and screaming outside the detention barn? The only thing that should have been done differently was the detention barn should have been made available earlier, as O'Neil previously noted. As for the trainers complaining, I understand that. Most people are creatures of habit. When things change, they complain. However, I have no earthly idea why non-trainers are complaining. Guesses: a) west coast resentment toward the east coast and/or b) resentment toward the NYRWB.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Where was the outrage when Jeff Mullins had his issues with NY's detention barn procedures? I missed that.

[KingChas]

Mike this has been going on for years in NY,no one at the top wants to listen.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/trainers-stuck-spa-stalls-article-1.583732

I recall Frankel,Mott,Pletcher,Zito,Shug etc...bitching about this set up in the past.

Common sense in this sport is a rare commodity these days.

[horses4courses]

Where was the outrage when Jeff Mullins had his issues with NY's detention barn procedures? I missed that.

Have a hard time with west coast trainers?

[Tom]

Where was the outrage when Jeff Mullins had his issues with NY's detention barn procedures? I missed that.

It was for every race back then.
HUGE difference.

I admit, I was all for the Det Barns then, but now, not at all.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Have a hard time with west coast trainers?

Don't follow your question.

[Saratoga_Mike]

It was for every race back then.
HUGE difference.
I admit, I was all for the Det Barns then, but now, not at all.

Why? Shouldn't there have been outrage about putting the poor trainers through the "brutal" detention barn protocols. Basically, this is all a bunch of crap for people looking to complain.

[Saratoga_Mike]

DRF article from this morning:

http://www.drf.com/news/belmont-stakes-2012-security-barn-irks-trainers

Different issue - in this case, stall design was an issue.

[KingChas]

Why? Shouldn't there have been outrage about putting the poor trainers through the "brutal" detention barn protocols. Basically, this is all a bunch of crap for people looking to complain.

See Mike here is were you are wrong in your thinking.

It is not putting the poor trainers through the "brutal" detention barn protocols.

It is putting the athletes through the "brutal" detention barn protocols.

In laymens terms "The Horses".

[Saratoga_Mike]

See Mike here is were you are wrong in your thinking.

It is not putting the poor trainers through the "brutal" detention barn protocols.

It is putting the athletes through the "brutal" detention barn protocols.

In laymens terms "The Horses".

I've worked with horses, and I just disagree with you. Anyway IHA is out with a bad tendon, so this issue will soon fade.

[KingChas]

NY Racing people (To whom it may concern) keep playing with fire they will eventually get burned.



Somebody drop a match?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Somebody drop a match?

Oh come on...NY had nothing to do with this.

[horses4courses]

Don't follow your question.

First O'Neill, now Mullins.

[Saratoga_Mike]

First O'Neill, now Mullins.

And I said plenty of NY-based trainers are cheats and should be banned. So I don't follow your point?

[iceknight]

For live press conference, I have posted few links here: (they might have replays on same websites)

http://stockgage.blogspot.com/2012/06/live-webcast-of-belmont-press.html

including this stream (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/247664/33/LIVE-Belmont-news-conference-on-Ill-Have-Another)

The Wave 3 maynot work well.

Injury: left front leg, superficial tendon has issues. Tendonitis. Horse to be retired